| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
21 Jan 2008 06:55:30 AM |
| Object: |
How liberals support the troops |
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110011107
We Stand Behind Our Stereotype
There is a school of thought in journalism according to which it is bad
form to mention the race or ethnicity of a criminal suspect or defendant
unless there is a compelling reason to do so. The idea is that such
references gratuitously perpetuate stereotypes while imparting
information that is of no use to the reader.
But racial and ethnic groups are not the only ones who take offense at
such stereotypes, as the New York Times reports:
Veterans groups have long deplored the attention paid to the minority
of soldiers who fail to readjust to civilian life.
After World War I, the American Legion passed a resolution asking the
press "to subordinate whatever slight news value there may be in playing
up the ex-service member angle in stories of crime or offense against the
peace." An article in the Veterans of Foreign Wars magazine in 2006
referred with disdain to the pervasive "wacko-vet myth," which, veterans
say, makes it difficult for them to find jobs.
The wacko-vet myth is alive and well. This very passage comes from a
7,000-word front-page piece in yesterday's Times titled "Across America,
Deadly Echoes of Foreign Battles":
The New York Times found 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and
Afghanistan committed a killing in this country, or were charged with
one, after their return from war. In many of those cases, combat trauma
and the stress of deployment--along with alcohol abuse, family discord
and other attendant problems--appear to have set the stage for a tragedy
that was part destruction, part self-destruction.
Are they depraved on account of they were deployed? In fact, the Times's
data are not sufficient to establish a correlation, much less a causal
relationship, between stateside homicide and previous service in
Afghanistan or Iraq.
To determine whether there's such a correlation, we'd need to know, in
addition to the number of war vets charged with homicide, the
corresponding figure for the general population, as well as the
denominators--i.e., the number of war vets and the size of the population
as a whole. A serious analysis would also take into account the
demographic characteristics of the veteran population, which is
disproportionately young and male.
This the Times does not do. Power Line's John Hinderaker conducts some
back-of-the-envelope calculations and finds that if the Times's numbers
are correct, "the rate of homicides committed by military personnel who
have returned from Iraq or Afghanistan is only a fraction of the homicide
rate for other Americans aged 18 to 24."
The Times, however, pre-empts this line of argument by acknowledging a
defect in its methodology:
To compile and analyze its list, The Times conducted a search of
local news reports, examined police, court and military records and
interviewed the defendants, their lawyers and families, the victims'
families and military and law enforcement officials.
This reporting most likely uncovered only the minimum number of such
cases, given that not all killings, especially in big cities and on
military bases, are reported publicly or in detail. Also, it was often
not possible to determine the deployment history of other service members
arrested on homicide charges.
If the numbers aren't comprehensive, what exactly is the Times trying to
prove here? This is where things get interesting:
The Times used the same methods to research homicides involving all
active-duty military personnel and new veterans for the six years before
and after the present wartime period began with the invasion of
Afghanistan in 2001.
This showed an 89 percent increase during the present wartime period,
to 349 cases from 184, about three-quarters of which involved Iraq and
Afghanistan war veterans. The increase occurred even though there have
been fewer troops stationed in the United States in the last six years
and the American homicide rate has been, on average, lower.
What the Times has discovered, then, is a dramatic increase in the number
of news reports in which homicide defendants are identified as servicemen
or recent veterans. Does this mean that those who've served their country
are more crime-prone now than they were in peacetime? Or does it mean
that reporters are more prone to perpetuate the wacko-vet myth than they
were during peacetime?
The Times is trying to prove the truth of a media stereotype by
references to media reports. It might have proved nothing more than that
it is a stereotype.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
People who think with their epidermis or their genitalia or their clan
are the problem to begin with.
C. Hitchens
.
|
|
| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: How liberals support the troops |
21 Jan 2008 07:37:58 AM |
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Fred Stone wrote:
| http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110011107
|
| We Stand Behind Our Stereotype
| There is a school of thought in journalism according to which it is bad
| form to mention the race or ethnicity of a criminal suspect or defendant
| unless there is a compelling reason to do so. The idea is that such
| references gratuitously perpetuate stereotypes while imparting
| information that is of no use to the reader.
|
| But racial and ethnic groups are not the only ones who take offense at
| such stereotypes, as the New York Times reports:
|
| Veterans groups have long deplored the attention paid to the minority
| of soldiers who fail to readjust to civilian life.
|
| After World War I, the American Legion passed a resolution asking the
| press "to subordinate whatever slight news value there may be in playing
| up the ex-service member angle in stories of crime or offense against the
| peace." An article in the Veterans of Foreign Wars magazine in 2006
| referred with disdain to the pervasive "wacko-vet myth," which, veterans
| say, makes it difficult for them to find jobs.
|
| The wacko-vet myth is alive and well. This very passage comes from a
| 7,000-word front-page piece in yesterday's Times titled "Across America,
| Deadly Echoes of Foreign Battles":
|
| The New York Times found 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and
| Afghanistan committed a killing in this country, or were charged with
| one, after their return from war. In many of those cases, combat trauma
| and the stress of deployment--along with alcohol abuse, family discord
| and other attendant problems--appear to have set the stage for a tragedy
| that was part destruction, part self-destruction.
|
| Are they depraved on account of they were deployed? In fact, the Times's
| data are not sufficient to establish a correlation, much less a causal
| relationship, between stateside homicide and previous service in
| Afghanistan or Iraq.
|
| To determine whether there's such a correlation, we'd need to know, in
| addition to the number of war vets charged with homicide, the
| corresponding figure for the general population, as well as the
| denominators--i.e., the number of war vets and the size of the population
| as a whole. A serious analysis would also take into account the
| demographic characteristics of the veteran population, which is
| disproportionately young and male.
|
| This the Times does not do. Power Line's John Hinderaker conducts some
| back-of-the-envelope calculations and finds that if the Times's numbers
| are correct, "the rate of homicides committed by military personnel who
| have returned from Iraq or Afghanistan is only a fraction of the homicide
| rate for other Americans aged 18 to 24."
|
| The Times, however, pre-empts this line of argument by acknowledging a
| defect in its methodology:
|
| To compile and analyze its list, The Times conducted a search of
| local news reports, examined police, court and military records and
| interviewed the defendants, their lawyers and families, the victims'
| families and military and law enforcement officials.
|
| This reporting most likely uncovered only the minimum number of such
| cases, given that not all killings, especially in big cities and on
| military bases, are reported publicly or in detail. Also, it was often
| not possible to determine the deployment history of other service members
| arrested on homicide charges.
|
| If the numbers aren't comprehensive, what exactly is the Times trying to
| prove here? This is where things get interesting:
|
| The Times used the same methods to research homicides involving all
| active-duty military personnel and new veterans for the six years before
| and after the present wartime period began with the invasion of
| Afghanistan in 2001.
|
| This showed an 89 percent increase during the present wartime period,
| to 349 cases from 184, about three-quarters of which involved Iraq and
| Afghanistan war veterans. The increase occurred even though there have
| been fewer troops stationed in the United States in the last six years
| and the American homicide rate has been, on average, lower.
|
| What the Times has discovered, then, is a dramatic increase in the number
| of news reports in which homicide defendants are identified as servicemen
| or recent veterans. Does this mean that those who've served their country
| are more crime-prone now than they were in peacetime? Or does it mean
| that reporters are more prone to perpetuate the wacko-vet myth than they
| were during peacetime?
|
| The Times is trying to prove the truth of a media stereotype by
| references to media reports. It might have proved nothing more than that
| it is a stereotype.
|
Ya know Fred, despite your opinion of liberals, independents,
Republicans, Democrats or what ever, the spin on this noise is ridiculous.
I am a veteran Fred, from Desert Storm. It is foolish to assume that
some Vets do not have a problem reintegrating themselves back into
peaceful society. The VA, the primary veterans group in this country,
does not decry or deny this fact. In fact, they have asked a number of
times that their budget for counseling and reintegration training be
increased, only to have the administration in power, laugh at them. It
has not mattered by the way Fred, which party holds that administration,
Democrat and Republican alike, would prefer to not have to deal with the
result of their actions.
Further, is it any wonder that some veterans have issues returning to
society, when they are missing parts that they had when they left? It's
not the whack job veteran that cause issues in hiring, it's the vet that
is missing limbs that can't seem to find a job doing what they were
trained for. Kind of tough to be an engine mechanic, when you have no
hands. And since the powers that be in both congress and the white
house don't give a damn about retraining these boys and girls, they end
up on the streets, trying to survive anyway they can.
It is shameful, spiteful and horrific the way we treat our returning
service members in this country. We try to look the other way. In the
60's and 70's, they were spit on and called baby killers. Now, we don't
know what to do with them. The hospitals they recover in are trashed,
the money to retrain and reintegrate them into society is gone and other
then a parade once a year in November, they are ignored by and large by
society and the country they have sworn to defend.
I don't care what spin they put on Vets, left or right does not matter.
~ These articles are mostly written by armchair generals that have never
put on one of the uniforms, never served a day defending that piece of
paper in the National Archives and never will have to look through the
sites of their weapon, and hope that's not a child on the other end.
The only people qualified to write about veterans are veterans. If
you've never been through it, you don't know what you are talking about.
Want to support the troops? Volunteer at your local VA hospital. Yeah,
it can be really disgusting empty bed pans, mopping up puke and picking
up discarded dressings. It also hurts to hold a grown man when he is
sobbing because he can't stop the pain in his legs, because he has no
legs. It can ***** you off, when they wake up screaming about the child
they didn't mean to kill. And it reminds how precious life is, when
they tell you about every single face they saw, just before they snuffed
it out of existence.
All they want is for someone to care.
Now if you'll excuse me, the tears in my eyes make it very hard to read.
~ I need a break.
- --
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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|
| User: "Sasha" |
|
| Title: Re: How liberals support the troops |
21 Jan 2008 12:48:27 PM |
|
|
On Jan 21, 8:37=A0am, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktaylo...@getnet.net>
wrote:
All they want is for someone to care.
Now if you'll excuse me, the tears in my eyes make it very hard to read.
~ I need a break.
Compassion is foreign to Fred.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: How liberals support the troops |
21 Jan 2008 05:48:58 PM |
|
|
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Hash: SHA1
Sasha wrote:
| On Jan 21, 8:37 am, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktaylo...@getnet.net>
| wrote:
|
|> All they want is for someone to care.
|>
|> Now if you'll excuse me, the tears in my eyes make it very hard to read.
|> ~ I need a break.
|
| Compassion is foreign to Fred.
|
|
Perhaps. But lately I've noticed a softening in some of the threads
that Fred originates. It is possible that he might understand that when
it comes to veterans, political party affiliation means nothing.
Political views mean nothing.
They are our sons and daughters doing a job most people don't, won't or
can't do.
And I hate the way they are treated when they come back home.
- --
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: How liberals support the troops |
21 Jan 2008 01:10:24 PM |
|
|
Sasha <scironi@gmail.com> wrote in news:b4648a48-3902-40ad-bbf3-
5d15acfed3f1@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
On Jan 21, 8:37 am, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktaylo...@getnet.net>
wrote:
All they want is for someone to care.
Now if you'll excuse me, the tears in my eyes make it very hard to read.
~ I need a break.
Compassion is foreign to Fred.
Comprehension is foreign to liberals.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
People who think with their epidermis or their genitalia or their clan are
the problem to begin with.
C. Hitchens
.
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