| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jd" |
| Date: |
10 Aug 2004 07:14:28 PM |
| Object: |
How science and atheism became a "religion" |
By pan-atheism.
"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
describes this immortal female deity:
"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
26).
Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
Human Spirit)
Here's Ruskie Mike:
"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
goddess Gaia:
"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
the environment in the next century and beyond."
— Mikhail Gorbachev
------------------ The "Earth Charter" ------------------
"The Earth Charter is a declaration of international values and
principles thought to be a necessary for building a just, sustainable,
and peaceful future. The idea of a Charter originated in 1987, when
the United Nations World Commission on Environment and Development
called for a new charter regarding fundamental principles for
sustainable development. In 1992, the need for a charter was urged by
then-Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali at the Rio Earth Summit.
In 1994, the Earth Charter Initiative was formed by Maurice Stong,
secretary general of the Earth Summit and chairman of the Earth
Counsel, Mikhail Gorbachev, who was then president of Green Cross
International, with support with the government of The Netherlands."
"In the United States, members of the Religious Right have found the
document alarming, in part because it is secular, and therefore
contains no reference to the doctrines of Judeo-Christianity.
In addition, some conservatives cite a statement by Gorbachev that the
document is "a kind of Ten Commandments", and the fact that at the
2002 World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg, South
Africa, a copy of the document was placed symbolically in an "Ark of
Hope" which resembles the Ark of the Covenant.
Thus, some see the Charter as a proposed replacement for the Ten
Commandments, and part of a conspiracy to establish a New World
Religion that replaces Christianity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Charter
Science has found that Christianity is responsible for killing the
ancient Goddess (whom they are in the process of resurrecting).
"Much of the evidence for the existence of this primitive religion
comes from the many thousands of artifacts uncovered in ceremonial
sites. These sites are so widespread that they seem to confirm the
notion that a goddess religion was ubiquitous throughout much of the
world until the antecedents of today's religions - most of which still
have a distinctly masculine orientation - swept out of India and the
Near East, almost obliterating belief in the goddess. The last vestige
of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity" - Al Gore
(Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the Human Spirit)
Now you see why so many pagans and atheists vehemently support the
the ACLU. They are slowly becoming brainwashed into thinking that
their goddess gave birth to the earliest of religions.... (and even to
Jesus himself)...
Lovelock again:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
Jd
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
24 Aug 2004 06:52:24 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <srhai09vcj6dvejrmsm8e4blql5vfpfm6b@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>Sure:
<>
<>Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce.
<>
<>Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce.
<
<Bull crap.
<
<Jd
That's what the Barna study found.
And it wasn't the first.
Apparently you have some poll data that indicates otherwise?
Please share.
-- cary
You cannot legally make folks take polls which are religious in
nature. Therefore, such polls as you're alluding to are not
scientific.
You're not trying to trick me again are you?
Jd
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 09:10:32 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:10:40 +0000 in episode
<cg3j2g$dcg$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu> we saw our hero
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell):
In article <srhai09vcj6dvejrmsm8e4blql5vfpfm6b@4ax.com> Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes: <Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>Sure:
<>
<>Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce. <>
<>Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce. <
<Bull crap.
<
<Jd
That's what the Barna study found.
And it wasn't the first.
Apparently you have some poll data that indicates otherwise? Please share.
No, he just has bull crap...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 01:52:25 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Sure:
Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce.
Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce.
Bull crap.
Are you accusing your fellow Christians at Barna of bearing false
witness?
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=77
The 7 Most Discouraging Results
1. Born again adults are more likely to experience a divorce than are
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
non-born again adults (27% vs. 24%).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2. Although women are more active in church life than are men, their
levels of participation in many aspects of church life - from worship
attendance to volunteerism - are significantly declining.
3. Large proportions of the lay leaders in Christian churches hold a
range of unbiblical religious views regarding the holiness of Christ,
the reality of Satan, the existence of the Holy Spirit, the reality
of the resurrection, and the means to salvation.
4. Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks just
sixth among the 21 life goals tested, trailing such desires as
"living a comfortable lifestyle."
5. Born again Christians spend seven times as much time on
entertainment as they do on spiritual activities.
6. Although two-thirds of all teenagers say they know all the basic
teachings and principles of the Christian faith, two-thirds of them
reject the existence of Satan, three-fifths reject the existence of
the Holy Spirit, and half believe that Jesus sinned during His
lifetime.
7. In a representative nationwide survey among born again adults, none
of the individuals interviewed said that the single, most important
goal in their life is to be a committed follower of Jesus Christ.
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=95
Anticipating some of the hostility and denials that emerge whenever
his company releases new survey data showing that massive numbers of
born again Christians get divorced, researcher George Barna provided
additional details regarding the data. "The adults analyzed in the
born again category were not those who claimed to be born again, but
were individuals who stated a personal commitment to Christ, having
confessed their sins, embracing Christ as their savior, and believing
that they have received eternal salvation because of their faith in
Christ alone. More than 90% of the born again adults who have been
divorced experienced that divorce after they accepted Christ, not
before. It is unfortunate that so many people, regardless of their
faith, experience a divorce, but especially unsettling to find that
the faith commitment of so many born again individuals has not
enabled them to strengthen and save their marriages."
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
24 Aug 2004 06:52:28 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Sure:
Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce.
Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce.
Bull crap.
Are you accusing your fellow Christians at Barna of bearing false
witness?
Nope. Such polls are irrelevant scientifically. But this is an
excellent example of how you secular hypocrites rely on un-scientific
data while making a "scientific" case.
You see, I know very well how you guys include/exclude data points in
a purely subjective manner.
And in a nutshell, that's why you guys become irritated by me. I know
your weaknesses, your hypocrisies, and your deceptive practices.
No big deal. I only wish to expose the modus operundai of the devil so
others can see clearly in order to escape hell if it happens to be
predestined for them.
And your hypocrisy states that you accept predestination if it comes
from "science"... (as was the initial criticism of the GAIA theory by
scientists themselves):
"The initial Gaia Hypothesis was highly criticized by many scientists
for being teleological, a belief that all things have a predetermined
purpose."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis#Basis
Jd
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became "hootenannies" |
19 Aug 2004 08:32:30 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:14:38 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <srhai09vcj6dvejrmsm8e4blql5vfpfm6b@4ax.com>):
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Sure:
Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce.
Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce.
Bull crap.
Jd
Oh, that divorce statistic always gets ignored because eveyone is
marveling over the states with the highest percentage of not-married
mothers (and, fathers, of course) being the states with the highest per
centage of religious fundamentalism and the states with the least
amount of the population being well-educated.
++ Gray //
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became "hootenannies" |
20 Aug 2004 03:46:50 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:32:30 -0500, Gray Shockley
<gray@cybercoffee.org> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:14:38 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <srhai09vcj6dvejrmsm8e4blql5vfpfm6b@4ax.com>):
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Sure:
Conservative Christians have the highest rate of divorce.
Non-believers have the lowest rate of divorce.
Bull crap.
Jd
Oh, that divorce statistic always gets ignored because eveyone is
marveling over the states with the highest percentage of not-married
mothers (and, fathers, of course) being the states with the highest per
centage of religious fundamentalism and the states with the least
amount of the population being well-educated.
++ Gray //
Atheists have the lowest divorce rates and incarceration rates of any
religious classification:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
14 Aug 2004 09:33:27 PM |
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On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
TRUTH makes you free.
That's why I'm atheist.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
16 Aug 2004 05:28:16 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
TRUTH makes you free.
That's why I'm atheist.
But you weren't born that way. So what was it that made you turn from
God?
You can't really say "TRUTH" since science confesses it's limitations
WRT deity and by default... limits itself WRT all possibilities, some
of which may indeed contain "TRUTH".
Evolutionary theory itself is not "TRUTH", for it it was it wouldn't
still be called a theory.
So the basis of atheism itself is founded on shaky ground.
And that is what this thread is about i.e. athesim and science being a
religion since it takes more faith to believe in evolutionary theory
than it does to believe in tried 'n true Biblical principles which do
not go out of date every 25 years or so like some theories of science.
Think about it. If unproven theory can be taught to our children in
their schools (as if it were fact), why shouldn't a religious
perspective also be allowed?
Jd
"The Supreme Court said you can't force the teaching of creation
science, but it didn't say that if individual teachers happen to want
to teach it they can't."—*Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution, Extinction
and the Movies," in Time, May 14, 1990, p. 19.
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| User: "James Powell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 07:36:19 PM |
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"Jd" <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote in message
news:fdj2i0defo23gk1o649f2rv01k00re08o3@4ax.com...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
TRUTH makes you free.
That's why I'm atheist.
But you weren't born that way. So what was it that made you turn from
God?
Sure I was. Didn't know anything about 'God' until it was taught to me.
You can't really say "TRUTH" since science confesses it's limitations
WRT deity and by default... limits itself WRT all possibilities, some
of which may indeed contain "TRUTH".
A somewhat correct thought in there somewhere.
Evolutionary theory itself is not "TRUTH", for it it was it wouldn't
still be called a theory.
But evolution is "TRUTH". (Not the theory)
So the basis of atheism itself is founded on shaky ground.
Atheism is not based on evolutionary theory!
And that is what this thread is about i.e. athesim and science being a
religion since it takes more faith to believe in evolutionary theory
than it does to believe in tried 'n true Biblical principles which do
not go out of date every 25 years or so like some theories of science.
No, just more intelligence.
Think about it. If unproven theory can be taught to our children in
their schools (as if it were fact), why shouldn't a religious
perspective also be allowed?
Because it isn't science?
Jd
"The Supreme Court said you can't force the teaching of creation
science, but it didn't say that if individual teachers happen to want
to teach it they can't."-*Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution, Extinction
and the Movies," in Time, May 14, 1990, p. 19.
Why don't you be a good boy and post the rest of the quote?
James Powell
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
16 Aug 2004 06:45:45 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
TRUTH makes you free.
That's why I'm atheist.
But you weren't born that way.
Of course he was. No one believes in anything when they are born; the
abstract cognition level for "belief" in something you can't see and
touch isn't there.
You can't really say "TRUTH" since science confesses it's limitations
WRT deity and by default... limits itself WRT all possibilities, some
of which may indeed contain "TRUTH".
"All possibilities" must certainly include objective truth, but since
we are incapable of recognizing objective truth as distinct from
subjective imaginings, that doesn't help. Other than objective truth,
"TRUTH" is something which ideology, religion, and philosophy uses to
bash over the head anyone who disagrees, and hence is not productive
at all (unless you are into bashing people over the head).
Evolutionary theory itself is not "TRUTH",
Of course not. It is science, which cares little for what you call
"TRUTH".
for it it was it wouldn't still be called a theory.
Science would still label it a theory, since that is the highest title
with which science invests any explanation of a phenomenon.
So the basis of atheism itself is founded on shaky ground.
Everything is founded on shaky ground.
And that is what this thread is about i.e. athesim and science being a
religion since it takes more faith to believe in evolutionary theory
than it does to believe in tried 'n true Biblical principles which do
not go out of date every 25 years or so like some theories of science.
Scientific theories work whether you believe in them or not, so it
takes no faith, nor belief.
Scientific theories are *useful*, unlike most "Biblical principles"
Think about it. If unproven theory can be taught to our children in
their schools (as if it were fact)
No. It is taught as if it were a scientific theory, which is BETTER
than fact, since it explains facts in a useful way.
why shouldn't a religious perspective also be allowed?
In public schools, because it is unconstitutional. In a religious
school, whatever floats your boat is allowed. But a religious
perspective like creationism is absolutely useless, so why bother.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
18 Aug 2004 09:13:17 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
TRUTH makes you free.
That's why I'm atheist.
But you weren't born that way.
Of course he was. No one believes in anything when they are born; the
abstract cognition level for "belief" in something you can't see and
touch isn't there.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Matthew 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little
ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold
the face of my Father which is in heaven." - Jesus
But your incoherence does have somewhat of a literal appeal, I admit.
Jd
"To be or not to be" - someone
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 12:52:06 PM |
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In article <ae78i0h51qo9iak8djm73o2ucpg5lth2c3@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<
<Bob LeChevalier wrote:
<
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<>>
<>>>On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:19:53 +0000 in episode
<>>><0r1rh0t33uvhjvq7su2l71opfagftae6qt@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jd
<>>><Jd.wuzhere@att.net>:
<>>>
<>>>> TRUTH makes you free.
<>>>
<>>>That's why I'm atheist.
<>>
<>>But you weren't born that way.
<>
<>Of course he was. No one believes in anything when they are born; the
<>abstract cognition level for "belief" in something you can't see and
<>touch isn't there.
<
<You don't know what you're talking about.
<
<Matthew 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little
<ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold
<the face of my Father which is in heaven." - Jesus
<
<But your incoherence does have somewhat of a literal appeal, I admit.
<
Huh?
Do you mean "literary"?
-- cary
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| User: "Abner Mintz" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
16 Aug 2004 07:11:12 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
TRUTH makes you free.
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
That's why I'm atheist.
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
But you weren't born that way.
What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you
claiming that everyone is born believing in your God or
some such?
So what was it that made you turn from God?
I don't know if Mark Bilbo was ever a theist, but in my case
I turned from God due to a close and careful reading of the
Bible, which led me to the realization that I had no evidence
that God existed at all. The more I studied, the more my
faith in God crumbled, until eventually it was all gone.
Evolutionary theory itself is not "TRUTH", for it it was it wouldn't
still be called a theory.
Evolutionary theory has nothing to do with atheism. I will
point out that, despite what you say above, the word 'theory'
does not mean 'untrue'. In science, the word 'theory' just
means 'works in every case we've been able to test it' - and
in science that's as good as it gets.
So the basis of atheism itself is founded on shaky ground.
I really hope you aren't in under the delusion that atheism
is based on evolutionary theory ... you do realize that
atheism was around thousands of years before evolutionary
theory? And that most of the people who accept evolutionary
theory are theists, not atheists?
Think about it. If unproven theory can be taught to our children in
their schools (as if it were fact), why shouldn't a religious
perspective also be allowed?
Since no theory can be proven, you seem to be saying that all
science is actually a religion. That's truly warped.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
18 Aug 2004 09:13:17 PM |
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Abner Mintz wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
TRUTH makes you free.
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
That's why I'm atheist.
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
But you weren't born that way.
What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you
claiming that everyone is born believing in your God or
some such?
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Jd
"I have spoken" - Jd
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 12:55:40 PM |
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In article <el78i0djivtr3l1vuf56k1n20m9d67l93p@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<
<Abner Mintz wrote:
<
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>>>> TRUTH makes you free.
<>
<>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<>>>That's why I'm atheist.
<>
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>> But you weren't born that way.
<>
<>What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you
<> claiming that everyone is born believing in your God or
<> some such?
<
<No one is born being a homosexual
In utero developmentals studies are starting to cast some
serious doubt on that statement.
I don't know why you'd make it anyhow. You think homosexuality
is a sin, and your religion teaches that we're all born tainted
by sin. So what's the problem?
or an atheist.
Well, if no one's born an atheist, are they all born
Christian then? Little babies in India and Saudi
Arabia and Camaroon, what were all these born as?
-- cary
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 07:14:44 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <el78i0djivtr3l1vuf56k1n20m9d67l93p@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<
<Abner Mintz wrote:
<
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>>>> TRUTH makes you free.
<>
<>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<>>>That's why I'm atheist.
<>
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>> But you weren't born that way.
<>
<>What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you
<> claiming that everyone is born believing in your God or
<> some such?
<
<No one is born being a homosexual
In utero developmentals studies are starting to cast some
serious doubt on that statement.
I don't know why you'd make it anyhow. You think homosexuality
is a sin, and your religion teaches that we're all born tainted
by sin. So what's the problem?
or an atheist.
Well, if no one's born an atheist, are they all born
Christian then? Little babies in India and Saudi
Arabia and Camaroon, what were all these born as?
-- cary
Well, certainly not as advanced apes.
At birth, men are appointed to death.
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but
after this the judgment"
Nowhere is it written that animals are judged by God after they die.
Humans simply cannot be classified into the scientific classifiacation
system as easily as you guys think.
Nor can they be excused from the final judgement of God.
Jd
"Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that
breaketh the rock in pieces?" (Jeremiah 23:29)
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 08:14:26 PM |
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In article <g5kai01jeofebkus68ajgjhqh85hh4d46n@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>In article <el78i0djivtr3l1vuf56k1n20m9d67l93p@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<><
<><Abner Mintz wrote:
<><
<><>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<><>>>> TRUTH makes you free.
<><>
<><>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<><>>>That's why I'm atheist.
<><>
<><>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<><>> But you weren't born that way.
<><>
<><>What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you
<><> claiming that everyone is born believing in your God or
<><> some such?
<><
<>
<><No one is born being a homosexual
<>
<>In utero developmentals studies are starting to cast some
<>serious doubt on that statement.
<>
<>I don't know why you'd make it anyhow. You think homosexuality
<>is a sin, and your religion teaches that we're all born tainted
<>by sin. So what's the problem?
<>
<>
<>> or an atheist.
<>
<>
<>Well, if no one's born an atheist, are they all born
<>Christian then? Little babies in India and Saudi
<>Arabia and Camaroon, what were all these born as?
<>
<>
<>-- cary
<>
<
<Well, certainly not as advanced apes.
<
<At birth, men are appointed to death.
<
<Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but
<after this the judgment"
<
<Nowhere is it written that animals are judged by God after they die.
<
<Humans simply cannot be classified into the scientific classifiacation
<system as easily as you guys think.
<
<Nor can they be excused from the final judgement of God.
Yeah yeah yeah. You're ignoring my question: I really want
to know: if -- as you claim -- no one is born atheistic, then
what religion are they born as? You know, little Yusef al
Hessein, now just seven hours old in Dubai (and with the
CUTEST little toes) -- what religion is Yusef infused with,
since you say he's definitely not an atheist?
-- cary
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 02:14:53 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
At birth, men are appointed to death.
So are animals.
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but
after this the judgment"
Nowhere is it written that animals are judged by God after they die.
Nowhere is it written that animals are NOT judged by God after they
die.
Humans simply cannot be classified into the scientific classifiacation
system as easily as you guys think.
Of course they can, as evidenced by the fact that they ARE.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 02:54:13 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:55:40 +0000 in episode
<cg2pis$1eq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu> we saw our hero
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell):
In article <el78i0djivtr3l1vuf56k1n20m9d67l93p@4ax.com> Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes: <
<Abner Mintz wrote:
<
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>>>> TRUTH makes you free.
<>
<>Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<>>>That's why I'm atheist.
<>
<>Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<>> But you weren't born that way.
<>
<>What makes you think he wasn't born an atheist? Are you <> claiming
that everyone is born believing in your God or <> some such?
<
<No one is born being a homosexual
In utero developmentals studies are starting to cast some serious doubt on
that statement.
I don't know why you'd make it anyhow. You think homosexuality is a sin,
and your religion teaches that we're all born tainted by sin. So what's
the problem?
Not to mention who *cares whether it's "inborn" or "developed" or some
combination? The consensual sexual behavior of adult citizens is no
business of the state. Period.
Interestingly enough, when Christbots yap "it's a choice," they forget
that so is *religion. If something being a "choice" means the state can
regulate it...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
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| User: "Abner Mintz" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
18 Aug 2004 10:47:03 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 06:20:57 AM |
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"Abner Mintz" <abnermintz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gipq7p.1uev5o01spu0rpN%abnermintz@earthlink.net...
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
What a maroon. EVERYONE is born an atheist.
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Ed. Stoebenau" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 07:20:38 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:20:57 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Abner Mintz" <abnermintz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gipq7p.1uev5o01spu0rpN%abnermintz@earthlink.net...
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
What a maroon. EVERYONE is born an atheist.
I don't think this is accurate. Infants don't have the (present)
potential to hold metaphysical beliefs, and so really cannot be
atheists or theists. Rocks are also not atheists.
--
Ed. Stoebenau
a #143
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 08:54:35 PM |
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"Ed. Stoebenau" wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:20:57 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Abner Mintz" <abnermintz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gipq7p.1uev5o01spu0rpN%abnermintz@earthlink.net...
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
What a maroon. EVERYONE is born an atheist.
I don't think this is accurate. Infants don't have the (present)
potential to hold metaphysical beliefs, and so really cannot be
atheists or theists. Rocks are also not atheists.
Children are boren neutral, they certainly are not Christians or
Hindu's, only perverted brain washing achieves these objectives.
--
Ed. Stoebenau
a #143
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
20 Aug 2004 08:27:46 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:20:38 -0500, Ed. Stoebenau
<rot13-rwfgbror@zvqjnl.hpuvpntb.rqh> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:20:57 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Abner Mintz" <abnermintz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gipq7p.1uev5o01spu0rpN%abnermintz@earthlink.net...
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
What a maroon. EVERYONE is born an atheist.
I don't think this is accurate. Infants don't have the (present)
potential to hold metaphysical beliefs, and so really cannot be
atheists or theists. Rocks are also not atheists.
Sigh. What are they then? Theists? Of course it's accurate.
The whole point is that they are TRIVIALLY atheist because they do not
belecome theist until are taught to be. If they aren't, they remain
atheist. There is a whole class of atheists who are atheist because
they weren't taught to be theist - which is very common outside such
god-soaked places as the USA.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 07:14:43 PM |
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Abner Mintz wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Any evidence to support this claim?
Check upthread.
Jd
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| User: "Abner Mintz" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
19 Aug 2004 10:50:51 PM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
No one is born being a homosexual or an atheist.
Abner Mintz wrote:
Any evidence to support this claim?
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Check upthread.
Since you haven't given any evidence of this upthread,
I'll have to take that as 'no'.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
16 Aug 2004 10:21:06 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:11:12 +0000 in episode
<1gilqi4.127y2a91s0lv7kN (Abner
Mintz)bnermintz@earthlink.net> we saw our hero
(Abner Mintz):
I don't know if Mark Bilbo was ever a theist
Fundamentalist Christian. Plymouth Brethren (open) as a matter of fact.
Raised in the *original fundamentalist sect (one of Darby's own <g>).
Which makes it even funnier because what I've seen Jd saying would make
him "not a Real Christian" even if were still Christian...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
17 Aug 2004 12:07:30 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:21:06 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:11:12 +0000 in episode
<1gilqi4.127y2a91s0lv7kN (Abner
Mintz)bnermintz@earthlink.net> we saw our hero
(Abner Mintz):
I don't know if Mark Bilbo was ever a theist
Fundamentalist Christian. Plymouth Brethren (open) as a matter of fact.
Raised in the *original fundamentalist sect (one of Darby's own <g>).
Just like Mr Crowley!
Which makes it even funnier because what I've seen Jd saying would make
him "not a Real Christian" even if were still Christian...
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
17 Aug 2004 02:02:45 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:07:30 +0100 in episode
<jpe4i096d1r9e8p8ca4iqchjk06b9tuu8l@4ax.com> we saw our hero Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com>:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:21:06 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:11:12 +0000 in episode
<1gilqi4.127y2a91s0lv7kN (Abner
Mintz)bnermintz@earthlink.net> we saw our hero
(Abner Mintz):
I don't know if Mark Bilbo was ever a theist
Fundamentalist Christian. Plymouth Brethren (open) as a matter of fact.
Raised in the *original fundamentalist sect (one of Darby's own <g>).
Just like Mr Crowley!
Crowely? As in Aleister? I did not know that.
(Why doesn't it surprise me they don't talk much about *that?)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
17 Aug 2004 02:10:06 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:02:45 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:07:30 +0100 in episode
<jpe4i096d1r9e8p8ca4iqchjk06b9tuu8l@4ax.com> we saw our hero Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com>:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:21:06 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:11:12 +0000 in episode
<1gilqi4.127y2a91s0lv7kN (Abner
Mintz)bnermintz@earthlink.net> we saw our hero
(Abner Mintz):
I don't know if Mark Bilbo was ever a theist
Fundamentalist Christian. Plymouth Brethren (open) as a matter of fact.
Raised in the *original fundamentalist sect (one of Darby's own <g>).
Just like Mr Crowley!
Crowely? As in Aleister?
That's the one!
I did not know that.
(Why doesn't it surprise me they don't talk much about *that?)
Apparently his mother kept calling him "the Beast," and in later life
he rather seems to have taken it to heart!
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