| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jd" |
| Date: |
10 Aug 2004 07:14:28 PM |
| Object: |
How science and atheism became a "religion" |
By pan-atheism.
"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
describes this immortal female deity:
"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
26).
Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
Human Spirit)
Here's Ruskie Mike:
"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
goddess Gaia:
"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
the environment in the next century and beyond."
— Mikhail Gorbachev
------------------ The "Earth Charter" ------------------
"The Earth Charter is a declaration of international values and
principles thought to be a necessary for building a just, sustainable,
and peaceful future. The idea of a Charter originated in 1987, when
the United Nations World Commission on Environment and Development
called for a new charter regarding fundamental principles for
sustainable development. In 1992, the need for a charter was urged by
then-Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali at the Rio Earth Summit.
In 1994, the Earth Charter Initiative was formed by Maurice Stong,
secretary general of the Earth Summit and chairman of the Earth
Counsel, Mikhail Gorbachev, who was then president of Green Cross
International, with support with the government of The Netherlands."
"In the United States, members of the Religious Right have found the
document alarming, in part because it is secular, and therefore
contains no reference to the doctrines of Judeo-Christianity.
In addition, some conservatives cite a statement by Gorbachev that the
document is "a kind of Ten Commandments", and the fact that at the
2002 World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg, South
Africa, a copy of the document was placed symbolically in an "Ark of
Hope" which resembles the Ark of the Covenant.
Thus, some see the Charter as a proposed replacement for the Ten
Commandments, and part of a conspiracy to establish a New World
Religion that replaces Christianity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Charter
Science has found that Christianity is responsible for killing the
ancient Goddess (whom they are in the process of resurrecting).
"Much of the evidence for the existence of this primitive religion
comes from the many thousands of artifacts uncovered in ceremonial
sites. These sites are so widespread that they seem to confirm the
notion that a goddess religion was ubiquitous throughout much of the
world until the antecedents of today's religions - most of which still
have a distinctly masculine orientation - swept out of India and the
Near East, almost obliterating belief in the goddess. The last vestige
of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity" - Al Gore
(Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the Human Spirit)
Now you see why so many pagans and atheists vehemently support the
the ACLU. They are slowly becoming brainwashed into thinking that
their goddess gave birth to the earliest of religions.... (and even to
Jesus himself)...
Lovelock again:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
Jd
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| User: "New10." |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 07:29:30 PM |
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"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
POOR MOTHER NATURE
By New 10.
Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
www.atheistfellowship.com
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 07:46:34 PM |
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In article <KRySc.1477$aB1.421@twister.socal.rr.com> "New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> writes:
<
<
<>
<> "Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
<> life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
<> Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
<
< POOR MOTHER NATURE
<
<
<
< By New 10.
<
<
<
<
<
<Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
<it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
<never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
<of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
<are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
<catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
<
< www.atheistfellowship.com
I think of it as The Ultimate Cosmic Stockholm Syndrome. We always
feel grateful to our Captor when He doesn't whack us about.
-- cary
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| User: "Mikhail" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
12 Aug 2004 03:37:08 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
[]
<Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they
referred to <it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people
were killed, I <never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty.
What is the purpose <of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there
is a true need? Those who <are Christian are trained to always turn to
magical thinking when a <catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not
god, but poor Mother Nature. <
< www.atheistfellowship.com
I think of it as The Ultimate Cosmic Stockholm Syndrome. We always
feel grateful to our Captor when He doesn't whack us about.
The young lady, Alikhat, had something to say with keen observation.
What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...
I dislike the hypocrisy,
the corruption,
the greed
and the lies.
I dislike the veneration of ignorance,
the glorification of idiocy,
the wild-eyed hatred of progress
and the fear of education, which send the faithful shrieking,
vampire-like, from the light of knowledge.
I dislike the way in which prejudice
is passed off as piety.
The way superstition is peddled as wisdom.
The way intolerance is raised to the lofty heights
of "Truth".
I dislike how hatred is taught as love,
how fear is instilled as kindness,
how slavery is pressed as freedom,
and how contempt for life is dressed up and adored as spirituality.
I dislike the shackles religions place on the mind,
corrupting, twisting and crushing the spirit
until the believer has been brought down to a suitable state
of worthlessness.
So lost and self-loathing, so bereft of hope or pride,
that they can look into the hallucinated face of their imaginary
oppressor
and feel unbounded love and gratitude for the additional suffering
it has declined,
as yet,
to visit upon them.
I dislike people's need for a communal delusion,
like drug addicts who unite just to share the same needle.
I dislike the way reason is reviled as a vice
and reality is decreed to be a matter of convenience.
The way common sense and ordinary human decency
get re-named "holy law" and advertised as the sole province
of the faithful.
I dislike religions' wholesale theft of any number
of ancient mythologies,
only to turn around and proclaim
how "unique" their doctrine is.
I dislike how intelligence is held as suspect
and inquiry is reviled as a high crime.
I dislike the pillaging of the impoverished,
the extortion of the gullible,
the manipulation of the ignorant
and the domination of the weak.
I dislike the invention of sins
for the satisfaction of those who desire to punish.
I dislike the demonization of unbelievers,
The ill-concealed hate of proselytizers,
The hysterical rants of holy rollers,
The wigged-out warnings of psychic healers,
The dismantling of public education via religious school vouchers,
The erosion of civil rights by theocratic right-wingers,
The righteous wrath of gun-toting true believers,
The destruction wrought by holy warriors,
The blood-drenched fatwas of ayatollas,
and the apocalyptic prophesies of unmedicated messiahs.
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,
in one grotesque form or other,
will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner
of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.
Alikhat
#757
/end quote
--
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
-George Bush 2004/08/20040805
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 11:08:01 PM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:46:34 -0500, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in article <cfeela$si4$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>):
In article <KRySc.1477$aB1.421@twister.socal.rr.com> "New10."
<drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> writes:
<
<
<>
<> "Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
<> life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
<> Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
<
< POOR MOTHER NATURE
<
<
<
< By New 10.
<
<
<
<
<
<Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
<it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
<never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
<of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
<are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
<catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
<
< www.atheistfellowship.com
I think of it as The Ultimate Cosmic Stockholm Syndrome. We always
feel grateful to our Captor when He doesn't whack us about.
-- cary
You misspelled "She".
Thank you for playing.
++ Gray //
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| User: "MooJoo" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 10:51:48 PM |
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In article <KRySc.1477$aB1.421@twister.socal.rr.com>,
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
POOR MOTHER NATURE
By New 10.
Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
www.atheistfellowship.com
Reminds me of an epsiode of The Simpsons where a bug that was menacing
Todd Flanders was squashed by Bart so Todd offers a prayer to god:
Thank you god for saving us from the bug that you also sent.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:20:01 PM |
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MooJoo wrote:
In article <KRySc.1477$aB1.421@twister.socal.rr.com>,
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
POOR MOTHER NATURE
By New 10.
Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
www.atheistfellowship.com
Reminds me of an epsiode of The Simpsons where a bug that was menacing
Todd Flanders was squashed by Bart so Todd offers a prayer to god:
Thank you god for saving us from the bug that you also sent.
The devil has been sent to earth and can no longer accuse believrs
before God like he could in the days of Job....
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, "Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about
all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his
hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine
hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy
face". (Job 1:9-11)
So in a way, you're right.
Jd
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:20:00 PM |
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New10. wrote:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
POOR MOTHER NATURE
By New 10.
Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty. What is the purpose
of an omnipotent god if he is absent when there is a true need? Those who
are Christian are trained to always turn to magical thinking when a
catastrophe happens. Who gets the blame? Not god, but poor Mother Nature.
www.atheistfellowship.com
In getting the blame, she is also getting the credit for having an
enormous amount of power, which proves my point.
Jd
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" of Darts |
11 Aug 2004 10:52:26 PM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:29:30 -0500, Someone or a Tuther wrote:
Last night on television, I saw a very damaging tornado and they referred to
it as the work of Mother Nature. Even though many people were killed, I
never heard one fault god for his dereliction of duty.
You must be new to all this.
The Big Guy continually wipes out trailer parks and churches.
In fact, it has been postulated that the reason for tornadoes -
deistically speaking - is to wipe out churches and trailer parks.
You remember that bar bet between The Big Guy - who was trying to
impress The Great El Satino - and whatshisface over Job (Biblical not
Appleicable)?
That was /actually/ a //side// bet.
If you're familiar with the game of "Darts", then let me tell you how
gods and demiurges play. See, ya take tornadoes and darts and - oh,
never mind.
++ Gray //
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| User: "Docky Wocky" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" of Darts |
11 Aug 2004 11:35:28 PM |
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gray shockley sez:
"In fact, it has been postulated that the reason for tornadoes -
deistically speaking - is to wipe out churches and trailer parks..."
__________________________________________
So God is entitled to do some urban renewal, too.
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| User: "Mikhail" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" of Darts |
12 Aug 2004 03:31:50 PM |
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Docky Wocky wrote:
gray shockley sez:
"In fact, it has been postulated that the reason for tornadoes -
deistically speaking - is to wipe out churches and trailer parks..."
__________________________________________
So God is entitled to do some urban renewal, too.
So much for any hint of competence.
--
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
-George Bush 2004/08/20040805
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How science and goo-goo-god became a "religion" of Darts |
12 Aug 2004 02:48:08 AM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:35:28 -0500, DW wrote:
gray shockley sez:
"In fact, it has been postulated that the reason for tornadoes -
deistically speaking - is to wipe out churches and trailer parks..."
__________________________________________
So God is entitled to do some urban renewal, too.
I have no idea whether She is entitled or not.
++ Gray //
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
10 Aug 2004 07:38:00 PM |
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Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
--
Bill
"Jd" <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote in message
news:hc0jh0t1155o8o51bdilpfgag3fv5fufc4@4ax.com...
By pan-atheism.
"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
describes this immortal female deity:
"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
26).
Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
later, such a religion will emerge." -Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
Human Spirit)
Here's Ruskie Mike:
"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
cathedrals." - Mikhail Gorbachev
Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
goddess Gaia:
"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
the environment in the next century and beyond."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
------------------ The "Earth Charter" ------------------
"The Earth Charter is a declaration of international values and
principles thought to be a necessary for building a just, sustainable,
and peaceful future. The idea of a Charter originated in 1987, when
the United Nations World Commission on Environment and Development
called for a new charter regarding fundamental principles for
sustainable development. In 1992, the need for a charter was urged by
then-Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali at the Rio Earth Summit.
In 1994, the Earth Charter Initiative was formed by Maurice Stong,
secretary general of the Earth Summit and chairman of the Earth
Counsel, Mikhail Gorbachev, who was then president of Green Cross
International, with support with the government of The Netherlands."
"In the United States, members of the Religious Right have found the
document alarming, in part because it is secular, and therefore
contains no reference to the doctrines of Judeo-Christianity.
In addition, some conservatives cite a statement by Gorbachev that the
document is "a kind of Ten Commandments", and the fact that at the
2002 World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg, South
Africa, a copy of the document was placed symbolically in an "Ark of
Hope" which resembles the Ark of the Covenant.
Thus, some see the Charter as a proposed replacement for the Ten
Commandments, and part of a conspiracy to establish a New World
Religion that replaces Christianity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Charter
Science has found that Christianity is responsible for killing the
ancient Goddess (whom they are in the process of resurrecting).
"Much of the evidence for the existence of this primitive religion
comes from the many thousands of artifacts uncovered in ceremonial
sites. These sites are so widespread that they seem to confirm the
notion that a goddess religion was ubiquitous throughout much of the
world until the antecedents of today's religions - most of which still
have a distinctly masculine orientation - swept out of India and the
Near East, almost obliterating belief in the goddess. The last vestige
of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity" - Al Gore
(Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the Human Spirit)
Now you see why so many pagans and atheists vehemently support the
the ACLU. They are slowly becoming brainwashed into thinking that
their goddess gave birth to the earliest of religions.... (and even to
Jesus himself)...
Lovelock again:
"Gaia is Mother Earth. Gaia is immortal. She is the eternal source of
life. She is certainly the mother of us all, including Jesus" - James
Lovelock (Science and Christian Belief, Vol. 4, No. 1, p. 6)
Jd
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
10 Aug 2004 10:15:06 PM |
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Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Jd
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 04:26:30 AM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:15:06 GMT in alt.atheism, Jd (Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Sounds like the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle to me....!
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:19:48 PM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:15:06 GMT in alt.atheism, Jd (Jd
<Jd.wuzhere@att.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Sounds like the Completely Ridiculous Anthropic Principle to me....!
Right on. New Agers have it that everything is linked to SOURCE which
is some sort of mystical energy field, like Gaia represents.
Christiandom has been aware of this stuff for quite a while. In fact,
search Google yourself and follow the links into Christiandom where
they talk about cults and you can see for yourself.
Not all, but quite a few members of the scientific community spout New
Age philosophies without even knowing it. They're desparate to gain
followers (and tax$$$).
Jd
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 03:25:42 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:15:06 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <1p6jh01m763ebgkvaaa2i9jj3ltuapavgq@4ax.com>):
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Jd
Aha! So pink elephants /do/ count.
++ Gray //
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| User: "Hagar" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 04:25:28 PM |
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"Gray Shockley" <gray@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD3FEAF6001813E61522AF50@news.giganews.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:15:06 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <1p6jh01m763ebgkvaaa2i9jj3ltuapavgq@4ax.com>):
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years.
Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always
will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and
man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO
OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Jd
Amen to that, fellow Atheist.
.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:19:49 PM |
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Hagar wrote:
"Gray Shockley" <gray@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD3FEAF6001813E61522AF50@news.giganews.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:15:06 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <1p6jh01m763ebgkvaaa2i9jj3ltuapavgq@4ax.com>):
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years.
Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always
will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and
man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO
OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Jd
Amen to that, fellow Atheist.
Gray is not an atheist. He believes in pink elephants.
Jd
.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:19:48 PM |
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Gray Shockley wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:15:06 -0500, Jd wrote
(in article <1p6jh01m763ebgkvaaa2i9jj3ltuapavgq@4ax.com>):
Bill wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will. We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Welcome to the New Age.
Jd
Aha! So pink elephants /do/ count.
++ Gray //
Only the trained ones. ;)
Jd
.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 05:00:02 AM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:38:00 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years. Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
Agree with that, I have similarly been an atheist for over 50 years.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will.
In our current 4-dimensional space-time, I agree that the universe has
existed for all time.
We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
No *one* organism can be said to be at the "top" of the evolutionary
ladder, and certainly not man. Our intelligence is not some sort of
evolutionary goal, just another adaption, like an elephant's trunk or
a giraffe's neck.
If anything, this Earth is the realm of bacteria, and in a sense they
are the most successful organisms.
We believe that religion is pure myth and fiction. There is NO OBJECTIVE
EVIDENCE of the existence of any super natural Gods.
Ritualistic mumbo-jumbo born out of ignorance and the fear of death.
JPG
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 11:08:06 AM |
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--
-
"JPG" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f1rjh09llehb9msmgb5upicjh2854akkva@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:38:00 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years.
Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
Agree with that, I have similarly been an atheist for over 50 years.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always will.
In our current 4-dimensional space-time, I agree that the universe has
existed for all time.
We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe and man
is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
No *one* organism can be said to be at the "top" of the evolutionary
ladder, and certainly not man. Our intelligence is not some sort of
evolutionary goal, just another adaption, like an elephant's trunk or
a giraffe's neck.
Or, in some cases. a horse's *****.
.
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| User: "Mikhail" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
12 Aug 2004 04:13:59 PM |
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ZenIsWhen wrote:
"JPG" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f1rjh09llehb9msmgb5upicjh2854akkva@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:38:00 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
Cut the confusion. I am and have been an atheist for over 50 years.
Atheism
is the lack of belief in God or super natural beings. A creator.
Agree with that, I have similarly been an atheist for over 50 years.
We believe that the universe has probably always existed and always
will.
In our current 4-dimensional space-time, I agree that the universe
has existed for all time.
We
are part of a small planet that is not the center of the universe
and man
is
just at the top of the evolutionary ladder on earth.
No *one* organism can be said to be at the "top" of the evolutionary
ladder, and certainly not man. Our intelligence is not some sort of
evolutionary goal, just another adaption, like an elephant's trunk or
a giraffe's neck.
Or, in some cases. a horse's *****.
jd
--
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
-George Bush 2004/08/20040805
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
10 Aug 2004 07:54:51 PM |
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In article <hc0jh0t1155o8o51bdilpfgag3fv5fufc4@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<By pan-atheism.
<
<"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
<pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
<definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
<rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
<is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
<
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
<
<Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
Oddly enough, in decades of reading such non-religious, sometimes
anti-religious rags as "Skeptical Inquirer" and "Skeptic Magazine"
and "Free Enquiry" -- as well as a decade of dipping into
`alt.atheism' -- this is the very first time I've ever come
across this term.
These `pan-atheists' must be rarer than Loch Nessies. Has one
ever been conclusively sighted on camera?
<
<Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
<describes this immortal female deity:
<
<"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
<and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
<26).
Note the complete absense of religious terminology there. Nary a "goddess"
in sight. If James is a priest for Gaia, he certainly should be
de-frocked. He keeps on forgetting to mention anything about worship.
<
<Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
<
<"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
<as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
<reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
<later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
"Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge." Hardly sounds like
science, which has already been around for a few centuries now.
<
<Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
<
<"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
<that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
<of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
<was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
<all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
<Human Spirit)
Is the light dim or something? Why the problem with the words
"in prehistoric Europe"?
Or do you think ol' Al is wrong, and there never was earth-worship?
<
<
<Here's Ruskie Mike:
<
<"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
<cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
<
<Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
<in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
<the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
<are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
<behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
<goddess Gaia:
<
<"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
<"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
<the environment in the next century and beyond."
<— Mikhail Gorbachev
Sounds like a fine idea to me. But you're safe; no such thing is
taking place currently, no matter how earnestly you do the
sackcloth-and-ashes bit in an attempt to convince us that
Gaia-worship is rampant among scientists.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Jd" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
10 Aug 2004 10:15:08 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <hc0jh0t1155o8o51bdilpfgag3fv5fufc4@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<By pan-atheism.
<
<"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
<pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
<definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
<rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
<is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
<
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
<
<Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
Oddly enough, in decades of reading such non-religious, sometimes
anti-religious rags as "Skeptical Inquirer" and "Skeptic Magazine"
and "Free Enquiry" -- as well as a decade of dipping into
`alt.atheism' -- this is the very first time I've ever come
across this term.
These `pan-atheists' must be rarer than Loch Nessies. Has one
ever been conclusively sighted on camera?
<
<Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
<describes this immortal female deity:
<
<"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
<and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
<26).
Note the complete absense of religious terminology there. Nary a "goddess"
in sight. If James is a priest for Gaia, he certainly should be
de-frocked. He keeps on forgetting to mention anything about worship.
<
<Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
<
<"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
<as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
<reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
<later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
"Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge." Hardly sounds like
science, which has already been around for a few centuries now.
<
<Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
<
<"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
<that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
<of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
<was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
<all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
<Human Spirit)
Is the light dim or something? Why the problem with the words
"in prehistoric Europe"?
Or do you think ol' Al is wrong, and there never was earth-worship?
<
<
<Here's Ruskie Mike:
<
<"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
<cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
<
<Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
<in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
<the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
<are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
<behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
<goddess Gaia:
<
<"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
<"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
<the environment in the next century and beyond."
<— Mikhail Gorbachev
Sounds like a fine idea to me. But you're safe; no such thing is
taking place currently, no matter how earnestly you do the
sackcloth-and-ashes bit in an attempt to convince us that
Gaia-worship is rampant among scientists.
-- cary
Not trying to. It only took 1 dictator to kill 6 million Jews.
Jd
.
|
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
11 Aug 2004 11:11:07 AM |
|
|
In article <nv6jh0131tq4ginpvp8u7408l6gkk91kgs@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>In article <hc0jh0t1155o8o51bdilpfgag3fv5fufc4@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<><By pan-atheism.
<><
<><"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
<><pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
<><definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
<><rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
<><is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
<><
<><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
<><
<><Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
<>
<>
<>Oddly enough, in decades of reading such non-religious, sometimes
<>anti-religious rags as "Skeptical Inquirer" and "Skeptic Magazine"
<>and "Free Enquiry" -- as well as a decade of dipping into
<>`alt.atheism' -- this is the very first time I've ever come
<>across this term.
<>
<>These `pan-atheists' must be rarer than Loch Nessies. Has one
<>ever been conclusively sighted on camera?
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
<><describes this immortal female deity:
<><
<><"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
<><and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
<><26).
<>
<>Note the complete absense of religious terminology there. Nary a "goddess"
<>in sight. If James is a priest for Gaia, he certainly should be
<>de-frocked. He keeps on forgetting to mention anything about worship.
<>
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
<><
<><"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
<><as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
<><reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
<><later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
<>
<>"Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge." Hardly sounds like
<>science, which has already been around for a few centuries now.
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
<><
<><"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
<><that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
<><of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
<><was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
<><all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
<><Human Spirit)
<>
<>Is the light dim or something? Why the problem with the words
<>"in prehistoric Europe"?
<>
<>Or do you think ol' Al is wrong, and there never was earth-worship?
<>
<>
<><
<><
<><Here's Ruskie Mike:
<><
<><"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
<><cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
<><
<><Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
<><in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
<><the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
<><are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
<><behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
<><goddess Gaia:
<><
<><"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
<><"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
<><the environment in the next century and beyond."
<><— Mikhail Gorbachev
<>
<>Sounds like a fine idea to me. But you're safe; no such thing is
<>taking place currently, no matter how earnestly you do the
<>sackcloth-and-ashes bit in an attempt to convince us that
<>Gaia-worship is rampant among scientists.
<>
<>
<>-- cary
<
<Not trying to. It only took 1 dictator to kill 6 million Jews.
<
You believe that Hitler killed six millions Jews?
Uh oh... John Knight is going to be VERY cross with you.
-- cary
.
|
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| User: "Jd" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
13 Aug 2004 10:19:54 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <nv6jh0131tq4ginpvp8u7408l6gkk91kgs@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>In article <hc0jh0t1155o8o51bdilpfgag3fv5fufc4@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<><By pan-atheism.
<><
<><"Creators of the term "pan-atheism" maintain that it is a
<><pseudo-pantheism because "pan-atheists" do not adhere to the
<><definition of pantheism which states that "All in God and God in All";
<><rather their beliefs are better encapsulated by the definition: "All
<><is Nature" and "Nature is All"."
<><
<><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-atheism
<><
<><Their "god" is nature, i.e. the goddess Mother Earth A.K.A "Gaia".
<>
<>
<>Oddly enough, in decades of reading such non-religious, sometimes
<>anti-religious rags as "Skeptical Inquirer" and "Skeptic Magazine"
<>and "Free Enquiry" -- as well as a decade of dipping into
<>`alt.atheism' -- this is the very first time I've ever come
<>across this term.
<>
<>These `pan-atheists' must be rarer than Loch Nessies. Has one
<>ever been conclusively sighted on camera?
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's how a notable scientist which is still living (James Lovelock)
<><describes this immortal female deity:
<><
<><"single, self-regulating biological organism that acted intelligently
<><and beneficently to maintain life" (Yoga Journal, March/April 1992, p.
<><26).
<>
<>Note the complete absense of religious terminology there. Nary a "goddess"
<>in sight. If James is a priest for Gaia, he certainly should be
<>de-frocked. He keeps on forgetting to mention anything about worship.
<>
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's Carl Sagan on the religion of "science":
<><
<><"A religion old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe
<><as revealed by modern science, might be able to draw forth reserves of
<><reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths. Sooner or
<><later, such a religion will emerge." —Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot (1994)
<>
<>"Sooner or later, such a religion will emerge." Hardly sounds like
<>science, which has already been around for a few centuries now.
<>
<>
<><
<><Here's Al Gore on the Goddess:
<><
<><"A growing number of anthropologists and archeo-mythologists argue
<><that the prevailing ideology of belief in prehistoric Europe and much
<><of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who
<><was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among
<><all living things." - Al Gore (Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the
<><Human Spirit)
<>
<>Is the light dim or something? Why the problem with the words
<>"in prehistoric Europe"?
<>
<>Or do you think ol' Al is wrong, and there never was earth-worship?
<>
<>
<><
<><
<><Here's Ruskie Mike:
<><
<><"To me, nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests are my
<><cathedrals." — Mikhail Gorbachev
<><
<><Which brings us to the "Earth Charter" which was ceremoniously placed
<><in the "Ark of Hope" (as the 10 Commandments were placed in the Ark of
<><the Covenant) and synbolically illustrates how leaders of the world
<><are desirous to create a New World religion for you, to guide your
<><behaviour, one that is defined by environmental science... and the
<><goddess Gaia:
<><
<><"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a
<><"Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward
<><the environment in the next century and beyond."
<><— Mikhail Gorbachev
<>
<>Sounds like a fine idea to me. But you're safe; no such thing is
<>taking place currently, no matter how earnestly you do the
<>sackcloth-and-ashes bit in an attempt to convince us that
<>Gaia-worship is rampant among scientists.
<>
<>
<>-- cary
<
<Not trying to. It only took 1 dictator to kill 6 million Jews.
<
You believe that Hitler killed six millions Jews?
Uh oh... John Knight is going to be VERY cross with you.
-- cary
And if he was, I would allow him to express his views as he saw fit
(unlike you, who hates the notion of free speech).
If you'll recall, I openly supported Mr. Knights rights to express his
views while you and Bob unmercilessly didn't. And anyone who was here
then will agree.
Jd
.
|
|
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
16 Aug 2004 01:00:07 PM |
|
|
In article <pg2rh05s90pbhbp87jpg3qkg609sfnf8ct@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<Cary Kittrell wrote:
<
<>In article <nv6jh0131tq4ginpvp8u7408l6gkk91kgs@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
{...}
<><
<><Not trying to. It only took 1 dictator to kill 6 million Jews.
<><
<>
<>You believe that Hitler killed six millions Jews?
<>
<>Uh oh... John Knight is going to be VERY cross with you.
<>
<>
<>-- cary
<
<And if he was, I would allow him to express his views as he saw fit
<(unlike you, who hates the notion of free speech).
<
<If you'll recall, I openly supported Mr. Knights rights to express his
<views while you and Bob unmercilessly didn't. And anyone who was here
<then will agree.
Really? In what manner did I prevent John Knight from expressing
his views?
-- cary
.
|
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
14 Aug 2004 08:49:06 AM |
|
|
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
If you'll recall, I openly supported Mr. Knights rights to express his
views while you and Bob unmercilessly didn't. And anyone who was here
then will agree.
The nincompoop has every right to express its views, and we have every
right to respond to them "unmercilessly" (think about that word
again!), or in some other way.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
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| User: "Jd" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
14 Aug 2004 10:15:11 PM |
|
|
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
If you'll recall, I openly supported Mr. Knights rights to express his
views while you and Bob unmercilessly didn't. And anyone who was here
then will agree.
The nincompoop has every right to express its views, and we have every
right to respond to them "unmercilessly" (think about that word
again!), or in some other way.
lojbab
Not if you're going to "love thine enemy" and "turn the other cheek".
Jd
.
|
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: How science and atheism became a "religion" |
15 Aug 2004 12:28:03 AM |
|
|
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
If you'll recall, I openly supported Mr. Knights rights to express his
views while you and Bob unmercilessly didn't. And anyone who was here
then will agree.
The nincompoop has every right to express its views, and we have every
right to respond to them "unmercilessly" (think about that word
again!), or in some other way.
Not if you're going to "love thine enemy"
What enemy?
and "turn the other cheek".
The nincompoop can kiss my right buttock instead of my left, if it
chooses.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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