| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
04 Apr 2006 08:32:52 AM |
| Object: |
How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Those of you with children will know just how frightening the concept
of cot death (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome in the US) is. When your new
baby wakes you up first thing in the morning with her cries, your
reaction is not "Blast, I have to get out of bed" but "Thank God, she
survived the night."
Between 1990 and 2000 cot deaths fell by about half in the western
world. That is very good news, but the story of why it happened is less
well known (old BBC story here). It should be one of the greatest
scientific scandals of our age, but somehow science escaped the blame.
From 1940 dodgy science was used to advise all mothers to put their
babies to sleep on their front. This advice continued until about 1990
and may have killed about 50,000 babies (source UCL Institute of Child
Health). In the mid-1990s, the advice changed to putting babies on
their backs (the Back to Sleep campaign). The effect was a dramatic and
immediate fall in cot deaths.
Now you could say this was a victory for science. But I don't see it
like that. For centuries, children had been put to bed on their backs
and it was science that caused them to be turned over. Bad science was
overturned by good science, but it is almost unbelievable that it took
so long. As a matter of fact, my mother put me on my back because she
could see the scientific advice flew in the face of common sense. This
strikes me as a good example of why we can and should stand up to the
arrogance of the scientific professionals. Next time you hear someone
lauding the mythical scientific method as the only good and pure way to
knowledge, think about 50,000 heart broken couples who lost their
babies because they followed the best scientific advice.
And while I'm about it, I wonder why no one has given the Nobel Prize
for medicine to the paediatricians who realised what a disaster the
advice for babies to sleep on their fronts was. It is undoubtedly the
greatest clinical advance in child medicine for fifty years.
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| User: "Michael Snyder" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 01:36:08 PM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Those of you with children will know just how frightening the concept
of cot death (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome in the US) is. When your new
baby wakes you up first thing in the morning with her cries, your
reaction is not "Blast, I have to get out of bed" but "Thank God, she
survived the night."
Between 1990 and 2000 cot deaths fell by about half in the western
world. That is very good news, but the story of why it happened is less
well known (old BBC story here). It should be one of the greatest
scientific scandals of our age, but somehow science escaped the blame.
From 1940 dodgy science was used to advise all mothers to put their
babies to sleep on their front. This advice continued until about 1990
and may have killed about 50,000 babies (source UCL Institute of Child
Health). In the mid-1990s, the advice changed to putting babies on
their backs (the Back to Sleep campaign). The effect was a dramatic and
immediate fall in cot deaths.
An interesting, but controvercial theory. Where are you getting your stats?
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| User: "Hieron" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 05:42:31 PM |
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I have seen an article a long time ago that there was a period of time when
in Japan they sopped vaccinating children under the age of 6, and cot death
virtually disappeared. later on they reintroduced vaccination for babies
and the cot death returned.
Having babies sleep on their back can be even more dangerous, for if they
have reflux, it can go into their lungs and choke them. It is much safer to
put them on their side.
Michael Snyder wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Those of you with children will know just how frightening the concept
of cot death (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome in the US) is. When your new
baby wakes you up first thing in the morning with her cries, your
reaction is not "Blast, I have to get out of bed" but "Thank God, she
survived the night."
Between 1990 and 2000 cot deaths fell by about half in the western
world. That is very good news, but the story of why it happened is less
well known (old BBC story here). It should be one of the greatest
scientific scandals of our age, but somehow science escaped the blame.
From 1940 dodgy science was used to advise all mothers to put their
babies to sleep on their front. This advice continued until about 1990
and may have killed about 50,000 babies (source UCL Institute of Child
Health). In the mid-1990s, the advice changed to putting babies on
their backs (the Back to Sleep campaign). The effect was a dramatic and
immediate fall in cot deaths.
An interesting, but controvercial theory. Where are you getting your
stats?
--
Hieron
http://zworld.wordpress.com
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| User: "Bo Raxo" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
05 Apr 2006 06:38:31 AM |
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"Hieron" <george@msn.de> wrote in message
news:49gb2jFokkdaU2@individual.net...
I have seen an article a long time ago that there was a period of time
when
in Japan they sopped vaccinating children under the age of 6, and cot
death
virtually disappeared. later on they reintroduced vaccination for babies
and the cot death returned.
Having babies sleep on their back can be even more dangerous, for if they
have reflux, it can go into their lungs and choke them. It is much safer
to
put them on their side.
You think you can get a baby to sleep on it's side?
Bwaaa haaaa haaaa haaaa haaa!!!!!!
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 12:01:41 PM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
It was also very common in the Middle Ages for children to be smothered to
death by their parents due to lack of contraceptives. This practice was
know as "overlaying," and occurred to such a degree that numerous ordinances
were past outlawing the practice:
http://www.awareparenting.com/sleep.htm
Science is imperfect, yes, but consider also that 1 out 2 live births prior
to the modern medical era ended in death before the first year of life:
http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Human_Population/Health2/World_Health1.htm
Now, infant mortality is under 1% in the developed world. How many lives
were lost due to the "intellectual ignorance" fostered by the Catholic
Church during the Middle Ages? Your argument is a pathetic strawman.
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 09:02:55 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, Sound of Trumpet poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Snorf!
Another Einstein who uses computers and the internet to tell us that
science doesn't work.
Regards,
Josef
A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding.
-- Marshall McLuhan
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 09:05:06 PM |
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On 4 Apr 2006 06:32:52 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:
And while I'm about it, I wonder why no one has given the Nobel Prize
for medicine to the paediatricians who realised what a disaster the
advice for babies to sleep on their fronts was. It is undoubtedly the
greatest clinical advance in child medicine for fifty years.
Good fucking grief.
Idiot.... Why did your god design it that way?
Huh?
How come there isn't a single mention of infant rearing in your
'perfect' book?
Plainly put, your god doesn't give a ***** about infant death,
miscarriages or any fucking life.
You're the one that loves the myth monster. Not us.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
05 Apr 2006 05:51:02 AM |
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On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:05:06 -0700, Steve Knight <wooly@sonic.net>
wrote:
On 4 Apr 2006 06:32:52 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:
And while I'm about it, I wonder why no one has given the Nobel Prize
for medicine to the paediatricians who realised what a disaster the
advice for babies to sleep on their fronts was. It is undoubtedly the
greatest clinical advance in child medicine for fifty years.
Good fucking grief.
Idiot.... Why did your god design it that way?
Huh?
How come there isn't a single mention of infant rearing in your
'perfect' book?
There are some child rearing guidelines in the Bible.
Deuteronomy
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey
the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when
they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring
him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is
stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton,
and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he
die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall
hear, and fear.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 09:29:19 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet in episode
<1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
From 1940 dodgy science was used
Note the word "dodgy."
And let us keep in mind that the current anti-gay hysteria is relying
to a great degree on ideas put forth in the same era...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Savant" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 10:48:50 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet in episode
<1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
From 1940 dodgy science was used
Note the word "dodgy."
And let us keep in mind that the current anti-gay hysteria is relying
to a great degree on ideas put forth in the same era...
As is hysteria against pedophiles and many other groups, whose beliefs
don't fit into the religious "All sex is wrong" *****.
Religious people are becoming more and more dangerous, in that when
something in their holy books are debunked by science, they cling to
that belief even more strenuously, because 'god' told them it was true.
Here's news for you, the ONLY part of the Bible that was dicated by
'god', was the Ten Commandments. Everything else is based on second,
third, fourth and greater-hand accounts from people who could have been
lying, and in some cases were KNOWN liars who suddenly 'found' religion
(Saint Augustine, for one ;| ).
All the sexual research lately that has said that pedophilia and other
non-..... (I don't want to use the word 'normal' here, because no
sexuality is totally normal.)
Let's put it non-accepted sexualities are harmful and damaging have big
problems with them.
1. They automatically assume that they are damaging FROM THE START! The
correct scientific method is to assume they are NOT damaging, nor
beneficial, and go from there and follow the evidence.
2. They were all done by people with KNOWN anti-sex biases, who would
NOT put their bias aside for a while, and view the evidence in a
neutral light, if they even EVER could.
The only study that was ever done that was scientifically acceptable in
the United States, was the Rind study, done by A NON-PEDOPHILE, who was
looking solely at evidence in other studies, and found that the
evidence had been twisted by the people who wanted pedophilia and other
unaccepted sexualities to be proved evil and bad.
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| User: "Albert van der Horst" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
17 Apr 2006 03:54:41 AM |
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In article <1144165729.986862.43790@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Savant <christopherkidwell3@comcast.net> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<SNIP>
Here's news for you, the ONLY part of the Bible that was dicated by
'god', was the Ten Commandments. Everything else is based on second,
third, fourth and greater-hand accounts from people who could have been
lying, and in some cases were KNOWN liars who suddenly 'found' religion
(Saint Augustine, for one ;| ).
Also note that while god did a good job by carving the commandments
in stone, the original tablets are lost. So we are left with
second-hand accounts of what was on them.
Groetjes Albert
--
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters.
albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
05 Apr 2006 06:25:38 AM |
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Savant wrote:
<snip>
Here's news for you, the ONLY part of the Bible that was dicated by
'god', was the Ten Commandments. Everything else is based on second,
third, fourth and greater-hand accounts from people who could have been
lying, and in some cases were KNOWN liars who suddenly 'found' religion
(Saint Augustine, for one ;| ).
How do you know that the Ten Commandments weren't just written by some
guy with a bee in his bonnet?
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| User: "magilla" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 12:29:43 PM |
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Savant wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Previously, on alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet in episode
<1144157571.985389.86350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
From 1940 dodgy science was used
Note the word "dodgy."
And let us keep in mind that the current anti-gay hysteria is relying
to a great degree on ideas put forth in the same era...
As is hysteria against pedophiles and many other groups, whose beliefs
don't fit into the religious "All sex is wrong" *****.
Let me go on record as saying that I do NOT accept the conflation
between defense of gays and defense of pedophiles- I firmly believe the
latter are seriously mentally ill.
Chris
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| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 09:12:17 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Everybody knows that the proper way to put infants to bed is to wrap
them in swaddling clothes and lay them in a manger. There's some
medical advice for the ages.
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| User: "Michael Snyder" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
05 Apr 2006 02:16:40 AM |
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"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144203137.783327.19450@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Everybody knows that the proper way to put infants to bed is to wrap
them in swaddling clothes and lay them in a manger. There's some
medical advice for the ages.
I thought you were to wrap them in aluminum foil,
and baste every 20 minutes?
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| User: "Bo Raxo" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
05 Apr 2006 06:39:46 AM |
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"Michael Snyder" <msnyder@socmen.org> wrote in message
news:44336fd5$0$70826$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144203137.783327.19450@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Everybody knows that the proper way to put infants to bed is to wrap
them in swaddling clothes and lay them in a manger. There's some
medical advice for the ages.
I thought you were to wrap them in aluminum foil,
and baste every 20 minutes?
Another W.C. Fields fan. I *knew* there was a reason I liked you.
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| User: "magilla" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 08:47:20 AM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Yes. Science is evil.
Whatever you do, do NOT have your kids vaccinated against measles or
poliio.
Idiot.
Chris
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 08:46:06 PM |
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On 4 Apr 2006 06:47:20 -0700, "magilla" <chris.linthompson@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Yes. Science is evil.
Whatever you do, do NOT have your kids vaccinated against measles or
poliio.
Idiot.
Chris
And never, never, never take antibiotics. The name says it all anti =
against, biotic = life. Taking an antibiotic is like killing God's
creation and throwing it in His face. Don't do it unless you are a
dirty anti-life atheist.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How Scientific Advice Killed 50,000 Children |
04 Apr 2006 09:27:12 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, magilla in episode
<1144158440.640529.184390@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>...
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/03/cot-death-and-scientific-arrogance.html
Friday, March 17, 2006
Cot death and scientific arrogance
Yes. Science is evil.
Whatever you do, do NOT have your kids vaccinated against measles or
poliio.
And *whatever you do, *don't use one of those "computer" things...
(They're just *evil)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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