Religions > Atheism > How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
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Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
24 Sep 2003 04:09:32 PM |
| Object: |
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
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| User: "Peter van Velzen" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
25 Sep 2003 04:01:15 PM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0309241309.f879916@posting.google.com>...
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
They should stop the violance.
The suicide bombers should be put to death
and the rocket launchers should face a tribunal.
Only Jews that would mourn over a palestinian,
and Palestinians that would mourn over a jew,
are my friends.
I guess I haven't got many friends over there.
Peter van Velzen, September 2003
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| User: "Brainfried Sysadmin" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
24 Sep 2003 08:08:41 PM |
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:09:32 -0700, maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319 by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and its
policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their faith
to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist respond to
this faith-driven conflict?
Okay, new tactic. I move we give them both an eviction notice and start
dropping bombs two weeks later. There's no better way to get rid of
stupid differences than to force them to work together.
Beyond that, set up a Palestinean state and put a big wall between them.
Maybe in a few generations they'll be ready to be nice to each other.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
26 Sep 2003 10:16:04 AM |
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:08:41 GMT, Brainfried Sysadmin <no@way.com> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:09:32 -0700, maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319 by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and its
policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their faith
to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist respond to
this faith-driven conflict?
Okay, new tactic. I move we give them both an eviction notice and start
dropping bombs two weeks later. There's no better way to get rid of
stupid differences than to force them to work together.
Beyond that, set up a Palestinean state and put a big wall between them.
Maybe in a few generations they'll be ready to be nice to each other.
We should give the jews an eviction notice then bomb them until there are
none left alive.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
24 Sep 2003 05:10:45 PM |
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maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
By recognizing that religion is an excuse for the violence, not a cause.
And why is it that Mr. Jennings uses the word "terrorist" only in
connection with Islam? Israel has been condemned as a terrorist nation *by
the UN* for decades, and remains in violation of several Security Council
resolutions.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
24 Sep 2003 05:28:21 PM |
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:10:45 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
By recognizing that religion is an excuse for the violence, not a cause.
However, it can be. When one group believes that the land it now
occupies was given by its deity to its ancestors 3500 years ago, and
that it is merely reclaiming it from those who lived there until 55
years ago, it is a cause.
And why is it that Mr. Jennings uses the word "terrorist" only in
connection with Islam? Israel has been condemned as a terrorist nation *by
the UN* for decades, and remains in violation of several Security Council
resolutions.
Not as many as it should have been because of the US veto.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
24 Sep 2003 05:54:54 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:10:45 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
By recognizing that religion is an excuse for the violence, not a cause.
However, it can be. When one group believes that the land it now
occupies was given by its deity to its ancestors 3500 years ago, and
that it is merely reclaiming it from those who lived there until 55
years ago, it is a cause.
I would assert that the Israeli expansion is fueled by politics, not religion;
religion merely forms the justification. As for the Palestinians, the response
to Israeli oppression is given the religious pantina of martyrdom but remains,
at its root, the response of every people facing genocide.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
24 Sep 2003 06:15:45 PM |
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:54:54 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:10:45 -0700, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
By recognizing that religion is an excuse for the violence, not a cause.
However, it can be. When one group believes that the land it now
occupies was given by its deity to its ancestors 3500 years ago, and
that it is merely reclaiming it from those who lived there until 55
years ago, it is a cause.
I would assert that the Israeli expansion is fueled by politics, not religion;
religion merely forms the justification. As for the Palestinians, the response
to Israeli oppression is given the religious pantina of martyrdom but remains,
at its root, the response of every people facing genocide.
I had a colleague in the 1980s, whose parents-in-law were
concentration camp survivors. They had emigrated to live on a kibbutz
and every week he ragaled us with stories of what the evil
Palestinians were doing. So I asked him how he'd feel if he were
kicked out of his home to form a new country on his own land, and he
told me in all seriousness that it wasn't their land because God had
given it to Abraham, and his descendants were just taking it back.
I tried explaining that the people they were "taking it back" from
were also descended from Abraham. His response was that they weren't
Abraham's heirs so they had no right to it. The crazy thing, is that
the Palestinians were the descendants of the Jews and Christians
(themselves descended from Jews) who converted to Islam as almost
everybody else in the region did. But no, in his mind they were
interlopers in the land God have his ancestors 3500 years ago.
And he was deadly serious.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict? |
25 Sep 2003 06:25:32 AM |
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maff wrote:
How Should Secularists View the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=319
by Daniel G. Jennings
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses a host of questions and moral
difficulties for the secularist. After all, both sides use religious
arguments to justify their position: many Israelis and their Christian
apologists use the Bible to justify the existence of modern Israel and
its policies; many Palestinians and their Islamic apologists use their
faith to justify anti-Israeli terrorism. So how should the secularist
respond to this faith-driven conflict?
The conflict actually follows a simple theme that recurred all
through human history: one group of people claims a piece of
land and the people who already live there object, which leads
to a fierce struggle. Religion has often been used as an excuse
for taking land, so this also is nothing new (the Crusades,
anyone?)
I my opinion the best solution would be if the international
community would simply withdraw their involvement in the whole
conflict and let them slug it out. Yes, this also means that
the US should stop giving Israel their support.
RS
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