| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
18 Sep 2005 02:34:33 AM |
| Object: |
How the Church can tackle terrorism |
How the Church can tackle terrorism
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current crisis
Richard Harries
Sunday September 18, 2005
The Observer
The phrase 'war on terror' misleads us from the first. It implies that
combating terrorism is primarily a military matter. Nothing could be
further from the truth. Studies of post-Second World War liberation
movements show that when an armed group had the support of the
constituency in whose name they claimed to act, they eventually won the
political battle. If they didn't, they lost.
The purpose of the armed struggle was to stay in existence long enough,
being enough of a nuisance, until the political goals were achieved.
That depended crucially on the support of the wider constituency. So,
in the current crisis, what matters above all are the relationships
between communities. And here, I believe, the churches have a key role.
Richard Harries
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/dbb511622d64e554
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 02:47:53 AM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom
has suffered.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 12:12:13 PM |
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In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S. government,
and every indication is that democracy & freedom has suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own failure to
do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The White House
spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure out how to seize
control of Louisiana using the military instead of, you know, providing
things like food and water...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 02:17:11 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and
their own failure to do anything about it as an excuse
to end the Posse Comitatus Act.
Just look at what they're already doing.
They HAVE PERFORMED (past tense) background
checks on Bush's refugees. They have barred/removed
people (past tense) from shelters because of the results
of those background checks.
So where are those people?
Have they been told that they're on their own? Have
they been "Cut loose" and told to fend for themselves?
Not a chance.
They are "undesirables."
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 12:48:50 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom has
suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own failure
to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The White
House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure out how to
seize control of Louisiana using the military instead of, you know,
providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's complaints?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 02:38:33 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom has
suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own failure
to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The White
House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure out how to
seize control of Louisiana using the military instead of, you know,
providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's complaints?
Nope.
RS
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
18 Sep 2005 03:38:16 PM |
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"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127072313.574441.219200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM"
<gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current
crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom has
suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own
failure to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse
Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The
White House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure
out how to seize control of Louisiana using the military instead
of, you know, providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's complaints?
Nope.
You don't? In order for the feds to "do something about it" they had to
have *explicit* and *specific* authority from the governor to use the
military to intervene in New Orleans. She wouldn't give that explicit
and specific permission, and she wouldn't let the civilian agencies (Red
Cross and Salvation Army) do it either. So if the Feds were supposed to
"do something about it" the President would have had to violate the
Posse Comitatus Act or invoke the Insurrection Act.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
19 Sep 2005 02:42:47 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127072313.574441.219200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM"
<gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current
crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom has
suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own
failure to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse
Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The
White House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure
out how to seize control of Louisiana using the military instead
of, you know, providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's complaints?
Nope.
You don't? In order for the feds to "do something about it" they had to
have *explicit* and *specific* authority from the governor to use the
military to intervene in New Orleans. She wouldn't give that explicit
and specific permission, and she wouldn't let the civilian agencies (Red
Cross and Salvation Army) do it either. So if the Feds were supposed to
"do something about it" the President would have had to violate the
Posse Comitatus Act or invoke the Insurrection Act.
No, they didn't if they had sent humanitarian help instead of
sending the military.
RS
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
19 Sep 2005 06:35:12 AM |
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"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127115767.651571.256190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127072313.574441.219200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM"
<gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current
crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom
has suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own
failure to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse
Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The
White House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to
figure out how to seize control of Louisiana using the military
instead of, you know, providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's
complaints?
Nope.
You don't? In order for the feds to "do something about it" they had
to have *explicit* and *specific* authority from the governor to use
the military to intervene in New Orleans. She wouldn't give that
explicit and specific permission, and she wouldn't let the civilian
agencies (Red Cross and Salvation Army) do it either. So if the Feds
were supposed to "do something about it" the President would have had
to violate the Posse Comitatus Act or invoke the Insurrection Act.
No, they didn't if they had sent humanitarian help instead of
sending the military.
The humanitarian help (Red Cross and Salvation Army) was blocked by the
state.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
19 Sep 2005 07:01:10 AM |
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In <1127115767.651571.256190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Richard Smol"
<jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127072313.574441.219200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM"
<gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current
crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom has
suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own
failure to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse
Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The
White House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to figure
out how to seize control of Louisiana using the military instead
of, you know, providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's complaints?
Nope.
You don't? In order for the feds to "do something about it" they had to
have *explicit* and *specific* authority from the governor to use the
military to intervene in New Orleans. She wouldn't give that explicit
and specific permission, and she wouldn't let the civilian agencies (Red
Cross and Salvation Army) do it either. So if the Feds were supposed to
"do something about it" the President would have had to violate the
Posse Comitatus Act or invoke the Insurrection Act.
No, they didn't if they had sent humanitarian help instead of sending the
military.
Typical neo-con crap of assuming the conclusion. Since the goals are to
increase the power of the federal government and use the military on US
soil (both violations of conservative principles), assume that was the
only "solution." So any opposition to the idea means you're "obstinate"
and "out of ideas."
Never mind that the Coast Guard was rescuing some 6,500 people *without
the military invading New Orleans.
Never mind that right wingers tell us repeatedly FEMA *did deliver food
and water to the Dome before the storm *without the military invading New
Orleans.
Never mind that FEMA made the crisis worse by turning away and idling
responses instead of coordinating them. Like all the firefighters they
left idling in Atlanta and when they told the airlines nobody needed
planes when the terminals at Armstrong were full of people trying to buy a
ticket out.
And never mind that they managed to provide aid to states governed by a
Bush *without the military marching in and taking over.
Certainly never mind that FEMA could actually do its job without the
military seizing power back during poopy old Clinton's day.
And, man, they sure hope you never notice that the two biggest ***** ups on
FEMA's part have been when a Bush was in the White House...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: How the Church can tackle terrorism |
19 Sep 2005 07:49:08 AM |
|
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:nvudnZ4VHbcYNbPeRVn-3A@megapath.net:
In <1127115767.651571.256190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Richard
Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@dds.nl> wrote in
news:1127072313.574441.219200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:hqmdnQWpxtFwArDeRVn-jw@megapath.net:
In <r6idneE5NMqghLDeRVn-uA@comcast.com>, "JTEM"
<gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote
Christians are well placed to foster democracy in the current
crisis
Oddly, they currently control all three branches of the U.S.
government, and every indication is that democracy & freedom
has suffered.
And watch how they're using the Katrina disaster and their own
failure to do anything about it as an excuse to end the Posse
Comitatus Act.
That's the neo-con answer to everything, military control. The
White House spent a couple of days after Katrina trying to
figure out how to seize control of Louisiana using the military
instead of, you know, providing things like food and water...
Does anybody else detect a slight contradiction in Mark's
complaints?
Nope.
You don't? In order for the feds to "do something about it" they had
to have *explicit* and *specific* authority from the governor to use
the military to intervene in New Orleans. She wouldn't give that
explicit and specific permission, and she wouldn't let the civilian
agencies (Red Cross and Salvation Army) do it either. So if the Feds
were supposed to "do something about it" the President would have
had to violate the Posse Comitatus Act or invoke the Insurrection
Act.
No, they didn't if they had sent humanitarian help instead of sending
the military.
Typical neo-con crap of assuming the conclusion. Since the goals are
to increase the power of the federal government and use the military
on US soil (both violations of conservative principles), assume that
was the only "solution." So any opposition to the idea means you're
"obstinate" and "out of ideas."
Never mind that the Coast Guard was rescuing some 6,500 people
*without the military invading New Orleans.
That's because the governor couldn't stop them.
Never mind that right wingers tell us repeatedly FEMA *did deliver
food and water to the Dome before the storm *without the military
invading New Orleans.
The governor wouldn't *let* FEMA deliver more food or water to the Dome.
Never mind that FEMA made the crisis worse by turning away and idling
responses instead of coordinating them. Like all the firefighters they
left idling in Atlanta and when they told the airlines nobody needed
planes when the terminals at Armstrong were full of people trying to
buy a ticket out.
And never mind that they managed to provide aid to states governed by
a Bush *without the military marching in and taking over.
That's because the governors of those states were competent and gave the
proper orders at the state level.
Certainly never mind that FEMA could actually do its job without the
military seizing power back during poopy old Clinton's day.
And, man, they sure hope you never notice that the two biggest *****
ups on FEMA's part have been when a Bush was in the White House...
FEMA did a wonderful job on Katrina relief, by any objective non-
hysterical non-partisan measure.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"This city, for the first time that I can remember,
is drug-free and violence-free.
And we plan to keep it that way." - Mayor Ray Nagin
.
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