In our last episode
<IADgd.12384$KJ6.6728@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Ike lept out of
the bushes shouting:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:PuKdnQYtw8DGVuLcRVn-pg@megapath.net...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:34:29 +0000, Ike wrote:

<snipping newsgroup header down to just a.a.>

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Ae6dnSIIa_8im-LcRVn-pA@megapath.net...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:27:08 +0000, Ike wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:8OWdnSpAqpOl0ODcRVn-jg@megapath.net...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:58:40 +0000, Gospel wrote:

Fact 1.

Proselytizing is prohibited by the alt.atheism FAQ.

Not that Christians believe they have to obey rules or even show

respect

for other people...

By proselytizing do you include post-and-run trolling, or at least
being willing to answer questions some of the time? How is the

enforced?

Generally, around here, it's understood to mean "preaching." That's
often drive by shoutings but not always. A few have been so
unrelentingly nasty, hateful, and vicious in their "discussions"

they've

discovered their Usenet accounts go inactive.

Enforcement is by the Usenet provider under their terms of service.
No one in any ng can actually get an account terminated. A *provider
can terminate any user at any time if they violate the terms they
agreed to when they opened their account. The only thing any user

do is *report violations. It's up to the provider to do something,

anything, about them.

'Course, one can always go to one of the known spam and troll haven
providers. We've got one of those. Unrelentingly vicious *****.
Rude as all get out. Nasty. Hateful. All in the name of Jeebus.

his

god

thingie is ever so pleased. His provider won't lift a finger. About
anything. Their "terms of service" amounts to "did the check clear?"

I think maybe it cuts off legit debate in some cases to complaint to
the ISP and get the accounts terminated. If the people are willing
sometimes to answer questions, there is always some hope that a
skillful

questioner

asking the right questions persistently might cause the person to

re-think

some ideas, resulting in, if not a better world, at least a more
interesting one.

Um... have you tried "debating" with a serious, unrelenting troll?

Some people are out to just disrupt. And in at least one case in the
years I've been on a.a., it spilled over into the real world. Sorry but
I'm not going to feel bad about reporting people who think atheists are
their personal punching bags.

Anyway, come on. This place is wide open. Nobody's even suggested
reporting, oh, georgann have they? I cussed her out and threw her in

killfile finally but haven't even thought of bitching to her ISP.

Yeah, I wondered why she gets a pass. the reason I wrote this was that I
was getting a feeling that some critics of atheism were being put off

threats of ISP complaints, and flame-like retorts. Just a feeling,

noticed some regulars in the group going ballistic and using that

I sort of cringe when I read extremely hostile replies by atheists, in
situations where I am sure they are reacting more to prejudice, instead

a real understanding of Christians who are admittedly proselytizing. A

of the atheists seem to lack understanding of the thinking of

I prefer more genteel discussions, and subtle irony.

Nah, I don't buy we're particularly hostile around here. There's far, *far
worse going on around Usenet. Has been for years. And far as Netcopping,
there's not that much.

I mean, look at *traffic around here. I keep seven days of messages
cached. That's 8,702 at this point in time. An average of about 1,240 per
day. Now go look at the number of people who are reported to their ISPs
for spamming, trolling, or other Usenet abuse.

Frankly, some "critics" of atheism deserve to feel "put off." They're
not "critics," they're assholes.

Listen, over the years I have seen whole online forums utterly
destroyed. More than once. There have to be *some boundaries. Don't

to be all that many and don't have to be all that restrictive and, no,

don't buy the false dichotomy that it has to be a free for all or
moderated with no in between. But there has to be *something.

Right but too many people are wanting to be police.

I don't buy that.

This system was built by a consensus based set of conventions that were
widely adhered to. Doing it that way has worked very well for many

now. Even now, where you have some corporate idiots that don't play the
game, it's managing to hold together surprisingly well.

But rip out everything that makes Usenet work and there won't *be a
Usenet.

I don't think being the "thought police" has any bearing on the future
viability of usenet.

I know of *many ngs that are now abandoned and nobody but spam bots

there. Sometimes, I get tired of losing ground to the people who abuse
Usenet. And, yes, there really exist people whose sole point of having

Usenet account is abuse.

For sure spammers should be dealt with swiftly.

Define "spammer." Is it purely commercial? Or could it be solicitation in
general? Such as, oh, proselytizing?

And where are the lines? I *used to participate in a number of groups.
Including some of the Big Eight. I watched anthropology oriented ngs
become the bastions of psuedo-scientific "proof" about racial
superiority/inferiority. The actual anthropologists left for private
mailing lists. At least one group I know of ceased to serve any useful
purpose to anybody but the KKK.

I'm down to one group now. If this place turns into alt.preach.at.us, I'm
***** canning the newsreader entirely. Rip the damn thing off my machine
and be done with it.

Shrug.

Shrug. Maybe we should let those folks have Usenet. Some days I do
wonder why I even bother with Usenet at all...

I know how you feel, but I get a real kick out of it, in spite of the
noise and static.

And if it turned into nothing *but noise and static?

--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
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