| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Iain" |
| Date: |
18 Oct 2004 10:49:29 AM |
| Object: |
How to Explain Evolution |
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
.
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| User: "Alan Jeffery" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
18 Oct 2004 04:26:13 PM |
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"Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6feb9a89.0410180756.59c5d91f@posting.google.com...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
I agree with TomS here. The issue with evolution, and fundies, is not
ignorance, it's fear. Sure their fear was able to be played on _because_ of
ignorance, but fear is the fundamental (sorry about that) problem. Until
you can overcome that, you can't provide them with knowledge. They simply
stop hearing you.
Maybe you can direct information at people _before_ they become fearful. I
think that is the real reason behind the fundies attack on evolution in the
classroom. And why it does need to be taught better than it is now.
Alan Jeffery
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
22 Oct 2004 10:39:48 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:26:13 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Jeffery"
<observa_no_spam@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
"Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6feb9a89.0410180756.59c5d91f@posting.google.com...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
I agree with TomS here. The issue with evolution, and fundies, is not
ignorance, it's fear. Sure their fear was able to be played on _because_ of
ignorance, but fear is the fundamental (sorry about that) problem. Until
you can overcome that, you can't provide them with knowledge. They simply
stop hearing you.
Maybe you can direct information at people _before_ they become fearful. I
think that is the real reason behind the fundies attack on evolution in the
classroom. And why it does need to be taught better than it is now.
When the teachers are mostly terminally ignorant the students will be.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Vote for Bush. Why vote for the lesser of two evils?
No matter the candidates the superstition industry wins.
'Jesus' is a sock-puppet Christians utilize to add 'authority' to
whatever action they intend on taking. -Stoney
And Duty Imp and Rapscallion
.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
19 Oct 2004 03:17:45 AM |
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(Iain) wrote in message news:<6feb9a89.0410180756.59c5d91f@posting.google.com>...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
To all who replied thus far: There is such a thing as an honestly
ignorant fundy. Some people truly know nothing and see strawmen as
incredible, but thing they constitute evolutionary theory.
~Iain
.
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
19 Oct 2004 10:20:48 AM |
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"Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6feb9a89.0410190025.49120a6a@posting.google.com...
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote in message
news:<6feb9a89.0410180756.59c5d91f@posting.google.com>...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
To all who replied thus far: There is such a thing as an honestly
ignorant fundy. Some people truly know nothing and see strawmen as
incredible, but thing they constitute evolutionary theory.
Most Fundies are "Honestly ignorant"
More precisely, they are misinformed but their parsons and religious
community who themselves are usually "honestly ignorant"
However this doesn't excuse their Theocratic leanings and blatant distrust
of Science.
The overwhelming majority of people who profess to believe in Evolution
can't give much more than one of the ridiculous Straw Men as their
perception of the Theory
It's the level of Public ( and private) education that's partially at
fault.
BTW the Gnu Agers don't do any better , from an intellectual overview.
A large number of them believe that Dolphins are actually ET's that Landed
about 60.000 years ago and lived in Atlantis.
(Magical Blend Magazine c.1983)
RJ P
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/04
.
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| User: "Ashley Moore" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
18 Oct 2004 06:35:19 PM |
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(Iain) wrote in message news:<6feb9a89.0410180756.59c5d91f@posting.google.com>...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
[snip]
"really" is more Saxon than "very".
I thought: really < realite' (old French) & very < vrai (old French).
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
18 Oct 2004 07:55:43 PM |
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Ashley Moore <ashmoo@hotmail.com> wrote:
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
[snip]
"really" is more Saxon than "very".
I thought: really < realite' (old French) & very < vrai (old French).
OED:
REAL:
a. OF. real, reel (13th c. in Godef.), or ad. late L. realis, f. res
thing, etc.
VERY:
a. AF. verrai, verrey, verai, veray, OF. verai, varai, vrai (mod.F.
vrai, Pr. verai), f. the stem of L. verus true.
If you want OE, try
TRUE:
OE. (strict WS. (e)tríewe, commonly) tréowe (ME. also truwe) = OS.
(gi)trûui, OEFris. triuwe, OWFris. trouwe, (MDu. (ghe)trûwe,
(ghe)trouwe, Du. getrouw), OHG. (ga)triuwu, (Ger. treu), ON. tryggr,
Goth. triggws; repr. WGer. *trewwj-, lit. 'having or characterized by
good faith', deriv. of the n. which is represented by OE. tréow, trúw,
OHG. triuwa, Goth. triggwa faith, covenant: see TRUCE.
--
John S. Wilkins
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Twelve good men and true
.
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| User: "Von Smith" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
19 Oct 2004 01:20:48 AM |
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(John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1glwh6v.24leu3xqckyvN%>...
Ashley Moore <ashmoo@hotmail.com> wrote:
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
[snip]
"really" is more Saxon than "very".
I thought: really < realite' (old French) & very < vrai (old French).
OED:
REAL:
a. OF. real, reel (13th c. in Godef.), or ad. late L. realis, f. res
thing, etc.
VERY:
a. AF. verrai, verrey, verai, veray, OF. verai, varai, vrai (mod.F.
vrai, Pr. verai), f. the stem of L. verus true.
If you want OE, try
TRUE:
OE. (strict WS. (e)tríewe, commonly) tréowe (ME. also truwe) = OS.
(gi)trûui, OEFris. triuwe, OWFris. trouwe, (MDu. (ghe)trûwe,
(ghe)trouwe, Du. getrouw), OHG. (ga)triuwu, (Ger. treu), ON. tryggr,
Goth. triggws; repr. WGer. *trewwj-, lit. 'having or characterized by
good faith', deriv. of the n. which is represented by OE. tréow, trúw,
OHG. triuwa, Goth. triggwa faith, covenant: see TRUCE.
I think the only Saxon word that even comes close to working as an
all-purpose strengthener would be "most", and even that sounds most
funny if you use it too often. Or maybe you could use "way", but
that's like way informal. If the Christians you're talking to are KJV
fans, they might appreciate the occasional "sore".
Von Smith
....and hine tha heafde becearf.
.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
22 Oct 2004 10:03:34 AM |
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(Von Smith) wrote in message news:<8d74ec45.0410182228.19586b4a@posting.google.com>...
johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1glwh6v.24leu3xqckyvN%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au>...
Ashley Moore <ashmoo@hotmail.com> wrote:
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
[snip]
"really" is more Saxon than "very".
I thought: really < realite' (old French) & very < vrai (old French).
OED:
REAL:
a. OF. real, reel (13th c. in Godef.), or ad. late L. realis, f. res
thing, etc.
VERY:
a. AF. verrai, verrey, verai, veray, OF. verai, varai, vrai (mod.F.
vrai, Pr. verai), f. the stem of L. verus true.
If you want OE, try
TRUE:
OE. (strict WS. (e)tríewe, commonly) tréowe (ME. also truwe) = OS.
(gi)trûui, OEFris. triuwe, OWFris. trouwe, (MDu. (ghe)trûwe,
(ghe)trouwe, Du. getrouw), OHG. (ga)triuwu, (Ger. treu), ON. tryggr,
Goth. triggws; repr. WGer. *trewwj-, lit. 'having or characterized by
good faith', deriv. of the n. which is represented by OE. tréow, trúw,
OHG. triuwa, Goth. triggwa faith, covenant: see TRUCE.
I think the only Saxon word that even comes close to working as an
all-purpose strengthener would be "most", and even that sounds most
funny if you use it too often. Or maybe you could use "way", but
that's like way informal. If the Christians you're talking to are KJV
fans, they might appreciate the occasional "sore".
Von Smith
...and hine tha heafde becearf.
Truly.
~Iain
.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
19 Oct 2004 03:15:37 AM |
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(John Wilkins) wrote in message news:<1glwh6v.24leu3xqckyvN%>...
Ashley Moore <ashmoo@hotmail.com> wrote:
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote...
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
[snip]
"really" is more Saxon than "very".
I thought: really < realite' (old French) & very < vrai (old French).
OED:
REAL:
a. OF. real, reel (13th c. in Godef.), or ad. late L. realis, f. res
thing, etc.
VERY:
a. AF. verrai, verrey, verai, veray, OF. verai, varai, vrai (mod.F.
vrai, Pr. verai), f. the stem of L. verus true.
If you want OE, try
TRUE:
OE. (strict WS. (e)tríewe, commonly) tréowe (ME. also truwe) = OS.
(gi)trûui, OEFris. triuwe, OWFris. trouwe, (MDu. (ghe)trûwe,
(ghe)trouwe, Du. getrouw), OHG. (ga)triuwu, (Ger. treu), ON. tryggr,
Goth. triggws; repr. WGer. *trewwj-, lit. 'having or characterized by
good faith', deriv. of the n. which is represented by OE. tréow, trúw,
OHG. triuwa, Goth. triggwa faith, covenant: see TRUCE.
On a gradient scale "really" is more saxon, esp because of the
inflection. Like "cross" is saxon even if it's originaly Latin.
~Iain
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
22 Oct 2004 10:38:24 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:49:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Iain) wrote:
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Right, which is why your post is a good example of a long
explaination..... :D
1) Baby is not a clone of the female or male.
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Vote for Bush. Why vote for the lesser of two evils?
No matter the candidates the superstition industry wins.
'Jesus' is a sock-puppet Christians utilize to add 'authority' to
whatever action they intend on taking. -Stoney
And Duty Imp and Rapscallion
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
18 Oct 2004 01:23:24 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:49:29 +0000 (UTC), (Iain) wrote:
How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and who
are too stupid to understand long explanations:
Rule 1: Use mainly words of Saxon origin, right down to favouring
"really" over "very". If you need any help with this, I'm quite a good
Saxoniser.
Rule 2: Be as concise as possible.
Rule 3: Fundies usually only read properly the first sentence of each
paragraph and then skim-read the rest, so put the most summarising
sentence of each paragraph as a sort of introductory header rather
than as a conclusion.
Stage 1: Many of these people are aquainted with chicken farming.
Mention something they may be familiar with. Ascertain that they
understand the concept of selective breeding and artificial selection.
Pick a single characteristic such as length of cats' fur. If they
don't understand, then begin an explanation of this, but ensure they
know you are aware of this as being distinct from natural
selection(they will always try to refute the significance of the point
otherwise).
Stage 2:
i. Ascertain that they know that over the generations change is
inevitable.
ii. Ascertain they know that the only question is of what the change
shall be.
iii. Point out that selective breeding in the wild is not controlled
by a chicken farmer but by the environmental factors which prevent the
likelihood of fuction and reproduction(like a chicken farmer does).
Stage 3: This is the most crucial stage because even if the
creationists understand you thus far, they usually don't yet grasp the
concept of the net effect of all this kind of change happening at
once, so:
i. Illustrate this.
ii. Go for the jugular and use the phrase "functional complexity" to
show that complex functional life is what the theory of evolution
deals with.
~Iain
Problem with that: I don't know a great deal about anything, but I know more
about biology than I do about anything else, and I'm not at all sure I understand
your last point. Good luck making that teaching point plain to a science-hating
fundy.
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
.
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
18 Oct 2004 04:09:39 PM |
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"Apostate" <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in message
news:m728n0da2pirloje9b0hhodtks8rh1e8he@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:49:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Iain) wrote:
:
: >How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and
who
: >are too stupid to understand long explanations:
[snip]
: Problem with that: I don't know a great deal about anything, but I
know more
: about biology than I do about anything else, and I'm not at all sure
I understand
: your last point. Good luck making that teaching point plain to a
science-hating
: fundy.
The one question I have:
Why the ***** would you want to abuse yourself that way? They
DON'T WANT to hear it, whether they claim to be open minded or
not.....if they've volunteered to be taught, I'd bet they just want to
have a chance to convert you.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: How to Explain Evolution |
19 Oct 2004 07:00:24 PM |
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begin <cl1bej$gdi$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,
"Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> writes:
"Apostate" <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in message
news:m728n0da2pirloje9b0hhodtks8rh1e8he@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:49:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Iain) wrote:
:
: >How to explain evolution to people who know nothing about it and
who
: >are too stupid to understand long explanations:
[snip]
: Problem with that: I don't know a great deal about anything, but I
know more
: about biology than I do about anything else, and I'm not at all sure
I understand
: your last point. Good luck making that teaching point plain to a
science-hating
: fundy.
The one question I have:
Why the ***** would you want to abuse yourself that way? They
DON'T WANT to hear it, whether they claim to be open minded or
not.....if they've volunteered to be taught, I'd bet they just want to
have a chance to convert you.
If you must use a bug ridden news reader at least install quotefix:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
.
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