| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"leo" |
| Date: |
26 May 2006 03:48:45 PM |
| Object: |
human sacrifices |
this obsession of Xians with the gays and others, reminds me of human
sacrifices of ancient times.
I you read the OT you can see how easily "the Lord" ordered to kill
people, women and children included. So I understand that the voice of
"the Lord" was an auphemism the voice of the "chief priest" that was
such invested of power like a real "Lord". So you easily grasp how the
priestly class could have taken the life of someone who made a fire, or
cut firewood, in the Sabath. How easily was to kill a disobedient son,
a couple of men caught buggering, an unfaithful wife, etc. could be
killed by stoning. This was a form of doing "human sacrifices", for
these killings were made in the name of the god. So with occasional
human sacrificies, the chief priest maintained his power over the
people. Not only with human sacrifices, but also by extracting the
tithe the people. The tithe was neccesary for the priestly class to
pay the henchemen, occasionaly an army, to punish and kill not only
those that did not pay the tithe, but also those associated with
foreign gods or people, and those that were political adversaries of
the priestly class.
Summing up. To maintain the people subjected to the Lord (that is, the
priestly class and its pope) they has to perform some human sacrifices
from time to time.
That is the reason why the "fundies" need to preach and campaign to
enslave the gays. They are starting with the gays, to make it easier
to win. Most people do not identify with gays. So they are starting
with gays and abortionist, trying to win a small battle before starting
a new one. They are trying to turn the clock backwards; this is easy
to understand. So they need to perform "human sacrifices". Of course,
in these times they are proposing to kill faggots by stoning, but they
will be glad to put them in jail, and kick them out of their works. In
the conservative areas of the US this has been happening since remote
times. That is why most of this poor people has to hide well inside a
virtual closet.
And this applies also to atheists. In conservative countries, atheists
have to keep well hidden inside their closets, if they dont want to
risk their jobs.
So, I hope everybody understand waht is the purpose of all this war
against gays, abortion and atheists.
Leopoldo
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: human sacrifices |
26 May 2006 04:38:45 PM |
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leo wrote:
That is the reason why the "fundies" need to preach and campaign to
enslave the gays. They are starting with the gays, to make it easier
to win. Most people do not identify with gays. So they are starting
with gays and abortionist, trying to win a small battle before starting
a new one.
I'm think if you do a little more political reading you'll find a
better explanation. Through history, the easiest way for groups of
people to keep their identity has been to define enemies. In ancient
times it was a matter of geography, i.e. in this town we're citizens but
out there they're barbarians. Eventually groups evolved to include
culture, so that you could have allies who were like you and enemies who
were barbarian.
The Christians have always been good at this. Their enemies have
included Rome, Jews, Protestants and/or Catholics and, in the U.S. at
least, Communists. As civilization progresses and the population at
large realizes how stupid these divisions are, they have to keep
narrowing the focus of their hatred, so that now they're down to
homosexuals, the only group left in the US that actually can be treated
like dirt and deprived of their rights with relative impunity.
They're working from blind animal fear of the unknown combined with
the human political reality that they require an enemy to keep their
people together.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "leo" |
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| Title: Re: human sacrifices |
26 May 2006 06:48:52 PM |
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i was thinking politically. A dominant class has not enough with
outside enemies. Specially for those "outside enemies" are often out
of the country. So, they have to accuse some "inside enemies" as in
collusion with outside enemies. But this device most times do not
produce enough enemies. So there is not enough practice in executing
"human sacrifices". So they have the need to spread out the range of
enemies to held tightly people by their balls. If they prosecute only
"communists" some people who are not communist dont feel treatened
enough, and so have a feeling about his security as far as "not to be
afraid enough of the Lord". I mean, they do not have an appropiate
"fear of god" as read the saying.
So, the need of human sacrifices are sort of Universal. And the more
failure it is a political system, the mroe they need to instill in
people "the fear of the Lord". Democracy is bad for this procedure.
So the fundies are trying hard to put the clock back to instill fear in
us all.
I said, this a Universal need of politicians and beggots. I am
thinkling now of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. The economic systeme
was a failure and all these people had to feel in in their midn "the
fear of the Lord", or the fear of God. That is the same.
If you are not putting them in prison for triffling reasons, if your
police have not a fast trigger, or a hard billy club, to make the
people to remind who is in charge... well, then... they have problems
to govern us easily.
I am thinking about the economic problems in Russia now, and you see
there is not any trouble there. I remember China after the Tian Amen
Square, they do not move a finger. They have well ironed "the fear of
the Lord". So there is a lot of politicians up there in the US that
are droolling at the idea of making "some more human sacrifices", for
they are not producing enough. How many prisoners they kill in Texas
daily? Not even one. Perhaps they are killing only one a month or so.
Perhaps much less. So I can understand the frustration of
conservative fundies. Too many people in the US have not the fear of a
sadist and bloody gawd. It is very frustrating for the fundies.
Leopoldo
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: human sacrifices |
26 May 2006 10:12:21 PM |
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leo wrote:
i was thinking politically. A dominant class has not enough with
outside enemies. Specially for those "outside enemies" are often out
of the country. So, they have to accuse some "inside enemies" as in
collusion with outside enemies. But this device most times do not
produce enough enemies. So there is not enough practice in executing
"human sacrifices".
That's my point, that there weren't human sacrifices for the reasons
you gave. And I think you'll find that the dominant class can *always*
find sufficient outside enemies. Luckily, with globalization it's
getting harder and harder for them to find "others" on the outside.
So they have the need to spread out the range of
enemies to held tightly people by their balls. If they prosecute only
"communists" some people who are not communist dont feel treatened
enough, and so have a feeling about his security as far as "not to be
afraid enough of the Lord". I mean, they do not have an appropiate
"fear of god" as read the saying.
The purpose of a witch hunt, and the communist "red scare" in the U.S.
was just that, is not only to scare the victims, but to convince the
rest of the population that they're in danger, which scares them. The
red scare was extremely effective when it came to frightening people.
If you are not putting them in prison for triffling reasons, if your
police have not a fast trigger, or a hard billy club, to make the
people to remind who is in charge... well, then... they have problems
to govern us easily.
Not so. Historically speaking, the Western democracies have
unprecedented levels of freedom from a coercive government. You are
specifically addressing Communism, in which the government tried to
replace religion with the state, and that is why they were so evil.
How many prisoners they kill in Texas
daily? Not even one. Perhaps they are killing only one a month or so.
Perhaps much less.
I live in Texas, and I can assure you the only reasons we aren't
offing the prisoners any faster are 1) there aren't enough to kill one a
day and 2) our secular, non-religious legal system has many avenues of
appeal for the condemned, although the religiously oriented Republicans
would like to significantly reduce or eliminate all such appeals.
So I can understand the frustration of
conservative fundies. Too many people in the US have not the fear of a
sadist and bloody gawd. It is very frustrating for the fundies.
This is the correct summary, but your attempts to connect this feeling
with human sacrifice just isn't accurate.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "leo" |
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| Title: Re: human sacrifices |
27 May 2006 03:53:52 AM |
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Hi. Raymond
you say "your attempts to connect this feeling with human sacrifice
just isn't accurate."
Well, you say that cause the European states seem to be more secular
than the US.
Well, we are rather tamed or domesticated. Perhaps our relative freedom
is related to the sense of freedom the dominant class feel toward the
population. On the other hand, we are not an empire but a third class
power. So we do not have to spand a fortune on military might.
Instead of that we spend a lot of money in our poor classes and on a
social security. But to a certain point, we can do that cause there is
a first class power nearby, the US that is the chief commander around
here. But to a first class power there are a lot of real enemies down
there on the surface of the earth. There is a lot of leaders in the
world with hunger of power. You can see that now and then, anywhere,
they pop out in the world ready to grab the upper echellon of power.
So I believe there are real enemies out there. There are a lot of
fucking enemies. Not only the communist were real enemies to them, the
capitalist class, they were also a religious army ready to conquer the
world. Of course they were not the first not the last army with a
purpose to conquer the world. This is happening every moment in
history, here and there. In each century there is in the world about
five or ten candidates to be the head of an empire. And each empire
has the ambition to the destroy rival empires, or a least to enlarge
they own frontiers with more countries and populations.
So in a way, this sort of imperial wars never end throughout history.
So the red scare as you said was in a way justified, for there were
real enemies developing a sense of war against the capitalist class.
So the general people "had to feel fear" of being associated with the
real or imagined communist agents of subversion. So, my point of view
is not to deny that the imagine enemies do not exist. They are real,
but in general these enemies of the dominant class are not my enemies
for I have not any power to defend, but a minimal freedom. And when I
say "dominat class" I am not refering to the "capitalist class" but to
"general dominant class" everywhere. As to any army with an aim of
conquering a piece of world in a way is trying also to enslave me. I
do not believe any sort of revolutionaries wanting to free me. I am
not but an insignificant man and they only want to control millions of
people. So far, if a system fails on economic grounds, we, the common
folk, are going to suffer the consequencies. So in a way, I can
understand crystal clear why the communist system was an economic
failure. So I prefer the capitalist system cause they give a hand to
those that are able to work hard for some years. In general, they feel
sure enough to give people unheard of degrees of freedom. I do not
know how long would last this freedom, and cannot imagine how difficult
the Asian competitors would make our life. For in a capitalist
globalized economy we are too pampered and are bound to wake up one day
with nasty hangover. In the near futurwe we will have to compete with
a lot of nations for energy. If we do not discover a new and cheap way
to produce energy we are going to have problems.
The problem as I contemplate is, would we be able to compete
successfully to keep our present level of consumption? How many
troubles will we be causing the dominat class because of this harsh
reality? So in a way, the success of other countries would probably
turn against our present level of consumption. So we will end slaving
for much less money that at present. Would that degenerate into less
freedom for us, the common people, and more power for the conservative
class?
Leopoldo
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