Oh, and I forgot "Chalmydia." What's that?
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Old GodsSoldier wrote:
LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
rants of "right wing" insurrection.
Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
the First Amendment.
Such as?
They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
the Treaty of Tripoli.
What case law would be based on such as the Mayflower Compact or the
Northwest Ordinance?
~~~~~~~~excerpt~~~~~~~~~
Myth:
The Northwest Ordinance provides for the support of Christianity and
demonstrates that the authors of the Constitution did not believe in
strict separation.
Background:
Sometimes, in an effort to find early American documents which support the
idea that the authors of the Constitution did not really mean to separate
church and state, accomodationists will point to the Northwest Ordinance.
According to this myth, the Northwest Ordinance provided for the public
funding of religion in the Northwest Territory - and did so through the
votes of the same people who voted for the First Amendment.
-----end of excerpt-------for more, see:
[I know GS won't bother, but others might want to in order to see how
fundagelicals misrepresent things]
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/cs/blcsm_gov_northwest.htm
"The modern religious right seizes upon this "aberration" of a case
[Holy Trinity church v. United States] as an example of what the true
founders of our nation, and the patriots who came after, all believed. But
Justice Brewer was the son of missionaries and was obviously inculcated
with missionary zeal, as this opinion clearly demonstrates. His
unrestrained expressions of bigotry against Muslim and Buddhist believers
cannot be allowed to represent the true stance of our pluralistic society.
Instead, his bigotry must be condemned!" --Bill Schultz
They forget the first actions of the US Congress which was to order, and
pay for, 20,000 Bibles, and to hire Chaplains.
Prove it.
<< They want to forget that the first Universities were began in this
country to promote Christianity.>>
That is the only purpose of the first universities? Can you prove that?
<< They wish to remember Mann, or Dewey, whose purpose in establishing the
government educational system was to promote the secular/humanist beliefs, and to erase the vestiges of a belief in God.>>
And of course, you can prove that?
You have been asked to prove similar claims and you seem to snip and
ignore those requests.
Ah yes, and they wish to ignore the fruits of their "educational" system
which has brought about higher illiteracy, increased promiscuity in
teens (resulting in the increases of STD's such as Chalmydia, the spread
of AIDS, and aborted babies). They wish to ignore the increase in
violence in the schools, and on the streets, of teens.
Atheism and secular humanism are responsible for this? Do you have any
proof of that? Does Tim LaHaye have any proof of that?
Ah yes, all the "good" that secualr[sic]/humanism has wrought.
Give me an example of these values of humanism which you claim prevail.
Could it be:
Rationality?
informed by science?
inspired by art?
motivated by compassion?
Affirmation of the dignity of each human being?
The maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant
with social and planetary responsibility?
Advocacy for participatory democracy?
Advocacy of human rights?
Advocacy of social justice?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS: tagline:
"Lest anyone argue in 1802 that his "wall" language implied hostility
toward religion, two days after composing the Danbury letter Jefferson
attended Sunday church services at the Capitol building for the first
time as President.
He knew his presence there would be widely noticed and reported in the
press. For the remaining seven years he served in office, he regularly
attended services supplied by a variety of clergy of various
denominations in a government building.
The symbolism was irrefutable.
As President, Jefferson wanted to foster religious freedom, particularly
in places like New England, which still had state establishments of
religion; but he never desired a "government without religion." That
charge, he confided to a friend, was a "lie" spread by his political
foes."
"All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of
the few." -- Marie Henri Beyle (Stendhal)
.
