| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"RainLover" |
| Date: |
17 Jun 2005 11:43:55 AM |
| Object: |
I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
I have an in law who is moving into this area at the end of the year.
She's lived overseas for 20 years, and my wife and I just bought a
house for her (her money, our power of attorney)... anyway, we're
trying to furnish it while on a tight budget.
This week we stopped into a second-hand furniture place... it was nice
enough, a huge selection, some good quality, not so bad prices....
BUT..
But they were listening to the local Christian channel (barf) and,
upon further investigation, had a photo of Jesus on the wall... you
know the one... White guy, Beard, drug-induced smile, "god-light'
creating a halo around his long hair...
Anyway, we found some nice furniture, and for a good price... we ended
up getting a total of about 10 pieces (dinning room/living room)....
THEN, our negotiations began.... The owner went down 10% cuz we were
buying a lot.. nice of him, but it got me thinkin'... what's the
special, secret-handshake price for Christians... so I started
explaining this furniture was for our Christian Sister (actually
Atheist / Buddhist) who had spent 20 years ministering in Korea
(actually, working as well as a Male to Female transexual).
I asked if there was anyway they could help out a Christian trying to
help out another Christian......
BAM, a total of 30% off instead of the 10%.
This Christian thing ROCKS!!!! I might have to put a jesus-fish on my
car for better parking places...
James, Seattle
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
24 Jun 2005 07:12:30 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:
An important point that seems to go right over many people is that just
because you have an opinion on something or someone, it is not necessary
that you always express it. Judging others in a social situation is an
example of when it may be best to keep your negative opinions to yourself.
In all fairness, John, in this example, it was of an inappriately dressed
friend who actually ASKED for an opinion. ;-)
However, one can always come up with one truthful thing to say that isn't
hurtful.
Well, almost always.
But there is always something to say besides, "What the hell were you
thinking?" I might say that they have more confidence than I have, or
that they are more daring than I am and give them a wink, etc. I save
my judgmental opinions for a more appropriate venue. Usenet. ;-)
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
27 Jun 2005 09:55:41 AM |
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:17:29 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eunl$1u6$3@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:u1dlb11hq9tfmjvertjjh89goa8l843mv4@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:58 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
How many years has this idiot, DianaC, been posting here and she still
has
not gotten the point that all ethics and morals are situational?
Situational ethics are no ethics at all. The whole POINT of ethical and
moral behavior is that one can count on them being pretty much the same;
Okay, you're at home, and there's a knock at your door.. a woman,
bleeding and bruised, panicking... you let her in to help her and 10
minutes later, a guy with a bloody knife shows up at your door and
asks if the woman is there...
Do you LIE? (remembering that lying is always unethical... it's even
one of the ten commandments)
Would I lie? No.
I would have already called 911, AND loaded my son's rifle, with which I
would shoot him. What the HELL makes you think that a man like that would
believe me if I lied about the woman's presence, and would quietly leave?
that you can trust a man to be honest no matter what situation he is in.
Because if you can't, does it matter if he IS honest 'sometimes'? You
can't
trust him ANY time.
So, since YOU have lied in your past (don't lie and say you haven't),
YOU are not to be trusted ANY TIME?
I have told lies.
But never in a business situation, and never to get monetary gain.
So it *is* a situatuional thing. Gain is ok as long as it's not monetary?
OK, make that personal gain.
I haven't gained personally from ANYTHING I've done for my
sister-in-law.
James, Seattle
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
27 Jun 2005 12:01:08 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:8q40c19sei4rc9nijiqekc3h1ve3436oqv@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:17:29 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eunl$1u6$3@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:u1dlb11hq9tfmjvertjjh89goa8l843mv4@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:58 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
How many years has this idiot, DianaC, been posting here and she
still
has
not gotten the point that all ethics and morals are situational?
Situational ethics are no ethics at all. The whole POINT of ethical
and
moral behavior is that one can count on them being pretty much the
same;
Okay, you're at home, and there's a knock at your door.. a woman,
bleeding and bruised, panicking... you let her in to help her and 10
minutes later, a guy with a bloody knife shows up at your door and
asks if the woman is there...
Do you LIE? (remembering that lying is always unethical... it's even
one of the ten commandments)
Would I lie? No.
I would have already called 911, AND loaded my son's rifle, with which
I
would shoot him. What the HELL makes you think that a man like that
would
believe me if I lied about the woman's presence, and would quietly
leave?
that you can trust a man to be honest no matter what situation he is
in.
Because if you can't, does it matter if he IS honest 'sometimes'? You
can't
trust him ANY time.
So, since YOU have lied in your past (don't lie and say you haven't),
YOU are not to be trusted ANY TIME?
I have told lies.
But never in a business situation, and never to get monetary gain.
So it *is* a situatuional thing. Gain is ok as long as it's not
monetary?
OK, make that personal gain.
I haven't gained personally from ANYTHING I've done for my
sister-in-law.
Yes you did. In fact, you rather gleefully bragged about what you gained in
that first post. For one thing, you 'got even' (or something) with the store
owner by putting something over on him. For some reason, you figured that
cheating HIM evened the scales or something. (shrug) Certainly you gained
approval and applause from your peers when you bragged about it here.
So yeah, you got some personal gain from it.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 08:18:56 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:58 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
How many years has this idiot, DianaC, been posting here and she still has
not gotten the point that all ethics and morals are situational?
Situational ethics are no ethics at all. The whole POINT of ethical and
moral behavior is that one can count on them being pretty much the same;
that you can trust a man to be honest no matter what situation he is in.
Because if you can't, does it matter if he IS honest 'sometimes'? You can't
trust him ANY time.
OH, and one more 'situational' um, well.. situation...
A really FAT friend comes up to you at a party and Looks HORRIBLE..
too much makeup, and celulite bulging through her skin-tight spandex
pants.
Do you LIE by not telling her how bad she really looks?
Do you PRETEND like everything is fine, and just hang out and chat
with her?
or are you HONEST with her and tell her she should really go home and
change?
Don't tell me... your answer is: "I dont' go to parties." :-)
(and don't even get me started on the FACT that gluttony is a mortal
sin)
James, Seattle
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 12:22:41 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:3edlb1tcnobbuag0plt6d8fb9t5j86ors5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:58 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
How many years has this idiot, DianaC, been posting here and she still
has
not gotten the point that all ethics and morals are situational?
Situational ethics are no ethics at all. The whole POINT of ethical and
moral behavior is that one can count on them being pretty much the same;
that you can trust a man to be honest no matter what situation he is in.
Because if you can't, does it matter if he IS honest 'sometimes'? You
can't
trust him ANY time.
OH, and one more 'situational' um, well.. situation...
A really FAT friend comes up to you at a party and Looks HORRIBLE..
too much makeup, and celulite bulging through her skin-tight spandex
pants.
Do you LIE by not telling her how bad she really looks?
Did she ask? If she didn't ask 'how do I look?" I wouldn't say anything; I'd
simply enjoy her company. Perhaps I would offer her my sweater.
Do you PRETEND like everything is fine, and just hang out and chat
with her?
I wouldn't have to pretend. If she doesn't ask me, and she's happy with what
she looks like, what difference does it make to me?
If she ASKS me, then....I'll tell her that the color is good on her (if it
is) but that a better fit would make her look thinner..and that is a
universal truth. ;-) And I'd offer her my sweater.
or are you HONEST with her and tell her she should really go home and
change?
That's not honesty. That's brutality. Unless of course she has actually
split her pants or something...
Don't tell me... your answer is: "I dont' go to parties." :-)
I don't, actually. A tad agorophobic.
(and don't even get me started on the FACT that gluttony is a mortal
sin)
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
18 Jun 2005 12:00:09 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:
No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.
Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?
And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds good to
me.
Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to charity...and
this is what that was; the store owner didn't violate anybody's civil rights
here. He gave a specific discount to a specific person because of her
perceived service and because that person was in need. It is done all the
time, is not only legal, but admired. People get awards for this sort of
thing, y'know....donating percentages of their profits to organizations and
people both religious and non-religious. Note; Rain lover didn't get the
discount because he was Christian. He got it because he spun a story about
the specific needy person who was getting THAT specific set of furniture and
who needed extra help.
If that was illegal, then Sears should be arrested for participating in
"Extreme Home Makeover", as should every OTHER retail organization that
every donated money, material or time to specific individuals.
It's also not illegal to decieve a merchant to get said discount.
It's unethical. Many unethical acts are legal.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
20 Jun 2005 04:15:38 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:tqYse.6139$jX6.107@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
<snip to>
It's also not illegal to decieve a merchant to get said discount. It's
unethical. Many unethical acts are legal.
Actually, I didn't accuse Rainlover of doing something illegal. (though it
may have been...it was fraudulent)
I accused him of being unethical. Of lying. Of being a cheat.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
20 Jun 2005 09:34:11 AM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:09 GMT, J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
DianaC wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
was illegal, then Sears should be arrested for participating in
"Extreme Home Makeover", as should every OTHER retail organization that
every donated money, material or time to specific individuals.
It's also not illegal to decieve a merchant to get said discount.
It's unethical. Many unethical acts are legal.
Yes. I readily admit what I did was unethical, but I feel 100%
justified in my momentary lapse into Christianity.
But my unethical act lead to the shop owners CRIMINAL act... giving a
discount because of my religion is criminal. But I like the better
price, so I'll let him off with a warning this time.
James, Seattle
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
20 Jun 2005 04:16:36 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:gqkdb1dvg3hq36f00lvf3rfv799hqktie5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:09 GMT, J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
DianaC wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
was illegal, then Sears should be arrested for participating in
"Extreme Home Makeover", as should every OTHER retail organization that
every donated money, material or time to specific individuals.
It's also not illegal to decieve a merchant to get said discount.
It's unethical. Many unethical acts are legal.
Yes. I readily admit what I did was unethical, but I feel 100%
justified in my momentary lapse into Christianity.
Ah, but the Christian you were unethical TO was being very ethical himself;
giving up his profit margin to help someone in need on the strength of your
lie.
<snip <>
.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
20 Jun 2005 09:31:06 AM |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:00:51 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:
No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.
Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?
And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds good to
me.
Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to charity...and
this is what that was
Would it be legal to give a discount to white customers?
And I was NO charity... I never said I was. I said I was a Christian
looking for a good deal on used furniture, which I got.
I was BARGAINING with this shop owner... He put out the sign that
Christians got better deals (figuratively speaking) so I said I was a
Christian in order to get a better deal.
If I went to the local grocery store and told the check out girl I was
a Christian, 'can I get a better price', she'd say NO... BUT if she
said 'Yes, you can', then that store would be committing a criminal
act.
; the store owner didn't violate anybody's civil rights
here.
Non-Christians pay more. What would you call it?
He gave a specific discount to a specific person because of her
perceived service and because that person was in need. It is done all the
time, is not only legal, but admired.
I I said my sister-in-law was an atheist transgendered person, but
just as IN NEED, he would not have given more of a discount... this is
proven by the fact that he did NOT offer the better price until the
secret code word (christian) was used.
People get awards for this sort of
thing, y'know....
Yes indeed... they are awarded Probabtion to 2 years normally.
donating percentages of their profits to organizations and
people both religious and non-religious.
I didn't tell him I was a charitable organization... I was a stranger
off the street buying merchanidise... the price was nearly settled,
but as soon as I mentioned my 'christian' status, the price dropped.
Note; Rain lover didn't get the
discount because he was Christian. He got it because he spun a story about
the specific needy person who was getting THAT specific set of furniture and
who needed extra help.
LOL, you're so f*cking wrong I LAUGH at you.... He knew the ENTIRE
story of us buying furniture for my sister-in-law... my wife and I
were in his shop for nearly an hour looking at furniture, and we were
the only customers, so we chatted with him about it.
If that was illegal, then Sears should be arrested for participating in
"Extreme Home Makeover", as should every OTHER retail organization that
every donated money, material or time to specific individuals.
There's a HUGE difference.
James, Seattle
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
20 Jun 2005 05:18:21 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:76kdb11gs920htu9kum383ruqpj72o5kaq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:00:51 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:
No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.
Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?
And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds good
to
me.
Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to charity...and
this is what that was
Would it be legal to give a discount to white customers
And I was NO charity... I never said I was. I said I was a Christian
looking for a good deal on used furniture, which I got.
Yeah, FOR your 'sister missionary who had been in Korea ministering for
twenty years'. You didn't get it JUST because YOU were a Christian.
I was BARGAINING with this shop owner... He put out the sign that
Christians got better deals (figuratively speaking)
What, because he listened to religious music? I don't think so.
so I said I was a
Christian in order to get a better deal.
You lied. But you didn't JUST say you were a Christian, did you? You spun
this pathetic story about your Sister missionary.
If I went to the local grocery store and told the check out girl I was
a Christian, 'can I get a better price', she'd say NO... BUT if she
said 'Yes, you can', then that store would be committing a criminal
act.
You can keep claiming this until you are purple, but you are lying now as
you lied then. You didn't get the deal because you were a Christian. You got
it for your sister missionary, specifically for her, specifically because
SHE was in need.
If you were a poor family who asked the grocery store manager for help, it
would not be at all illegal for you to get it. IT's done all the time.
; the store owner didn't violate anybody's civil rights
here.
Non-Christians pay more. What would you call it?
I'd say you payed much LESS BECAUSE OF THE SISTER MISSIONARY. As in, the
store owner's cost. He made little or nothing on the transaction. Have you
forgotten that part? YOU STOLE FROM HIM.
He gave a specific discount to a specific person because of her
perceived service and because that person was in need. It is done all the
time, is not only legal, but admired.
I I said my sister-in-law was an atheist transgendered person, but
just as IN NEED, he would not have given more of a discount...
And you know this, how, exactly?
this is
proven by the fact that he did NOT offer the better price until the
secret code word (christian) was used.
He did NOT offer the better price until you told him about the needy sister
missionary. By your own admission.
People get awards for this sort of
thing, y'know....
Yes indeed... they are awarded Probabtion to 2 years normally.
Actually, you would be serving 5 to 7 for fraud.
donating percentages of their profits to organizations and
people both religious and non-religious.
I didn't tell him I was a charitable organization... I was a stranger
off the street buying merchanidise... the price was nearly settled,
but as soon as I mentioned my 'christian' status, the price dropped.
You mean, as soon as you mentioned that the furniture was for a specific
Christian, a missionary in need, it dropped.
Note; Rain lover didn't get the
discount because he was Christian. He got it because he spun a story about
the specific needy person who was getting THAT specific set of furniture
and
who needed extra help.
LOL, you're so f*cking wrong I LAUGH at you.... He knew the ENTIRE
story of us buying furniture for my sister-in-law... my wife and I
were in his shop for nearly an hour looking at furniture, and we were
the only customers, so we chatted with him about it.
And WHEN did you tell him that she was a sister missionary working in Korea?
If that was illegal, then Sears should be arrested for participating in
"Extreme Home Makeover", as should every OTHER retail organization that
every donated money, material or time to specific individuals.
There's a HUGE difference.
Well, yeah. The families involved there actually needed the help and didn't
lie to get it.
.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 08:51:11 AM |
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On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:18:21 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:76kdb11gs920htu9kum383ruqpj72o5kaq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:00:51 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:
No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.
Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?
And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds good
to
me.
Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to charity...and
this is what that was
Would it be legal to give a discount to white customers
And I was NO charity... I never said I was. I said I was a Christian
looking for a good deal on used furniture, which I got.
Yeah, FOR your 'sister missionary who had been in Korea ministering for
twenty years'. You didn't get it JUST because YOU were a Christian.
I was BARGAINING with this shop owner... He put out the sign that
Christians got better deals (figuratively speaking)
What, because he listened to religious music? I don't think so.
so I said I was a
Christian in order to get a better deal.
You lied. But you didn't JUST say you were a Christian, did you? You spun
this pathetic story about your Sister missionary.
First you say it's was a 'sob' story... now it's "pathetic" and he
LOST MONEY on the sale... You're a better STORY teller then me.
If I went to the local grocery store and told the check out girl I was
a Christian, 'can I get a better price', she'd say NO... BUT if she
said 'Yes, you can', then that store would be committing a criminal
act.
You can keep claiming this until you are purple, but you are lying now as
you lied then. You didn't get the deal because you were a Christian. You got
it for your sister missionary, specifically for her, specifically because
SHE was in need.
I never said I didn't lie to the guy. And, no, I got the discount
simply because I was 'christian'... you make it sound as if I told him
she lived in a rat-infested grass hut, starving herself as she spread
the word of God. I did no such thing. He knew she lived in Seoul, in
a 30 story apartment complex and had a 'day job'....
I don't know why you're defending this guy.... He actually broke
Federal Law, yet somehow in your twisted mind, I'm the bad guy.
Non-Christians pay more. What would you call it?
I'd say you payed much LESS BECAUSE OF THE SISTER MISSIONARY. As in, the
store owner's cost. He made little or nothing on the transaction. Have you
forgotten that part? YOU STOLE FROM HIM.
Now I gave a 'sob story', I was pathetic, and I Stole from him.
Wow... this is like the game "telephone", except you keep telling the
story over and over yourself and it gets more and more distant from
reality everytime you tell it.
People get awards for this sort of
thing, y'know....
Yes indeed... they are awarded Probabtion to 2 years normally.
Actually, you would be serving 5 to 7 for fraud.
Wow. 5 to 7 years in Prison for saying I was a Christian.... this
truely IS George Bush's America.
snip
Man oh man, Diane... you need to take a Deeeeep Breath... maybe
meditate a while. You've created a parallel reality from what
HAPPENED and what you now THINK happened.
James, Seattle
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 12:58:29 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:fa6gb1pm4a5ra8o8e31ps3hs5a9b12rqnv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:18:21 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:76kdb11gs920htu9kum383ruqpj72o5kaq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:00:51 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:
No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be
fine.
Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?
And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds
good
to
me.
Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to
charity...and
this is what that was
Would it be legal to give a discount to white customers
And I was NO charity... I never said I was. I said I was a Christian
looking for a good deal on used furniture, which I got.
Yeah, FOR your 'sister missionary who had been in Korea ministering for
twenty years'. You didn't get it JUST because YOU were a Christian.
I was BARGAINING with this shop owner... He put out the sign that
Christians got better deals (figuratively speaking)
What, because he listened to religious music? I don't think so.
so I said I was a
Christian in order to get a better deal.
You lied. But you didn't JUST say you were a Christian, did you? You spun
this pathetic story about your Sister missionary.
First you say it's was a 'sob' story... now it's "pathetic" and he
LOST MONEY on the sale... You're a better STORY teller then me.
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the sale.
After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had you not
decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would have
recieved had you been truthful.
Look.
The fact is, you lied.
You were unethical by your own admission.
.....and that's all there is to it.
<snip to end>
.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 05:25:58 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the sale.
After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had you not
decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would have
recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 06:27:34 PM |
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"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the sale.
After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had you not
decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would have
recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit fraud.
oops.
.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 09:53:24 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the sale.
After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had you not
decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would have
recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He
got what he wanted.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.
|
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
21 Jun 2005 11:38:54 PM |
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"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would
have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest, as
long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 09:38:32 AM |
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DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would
have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest, as
long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
hah! I happen to equate religion with drug use...how fitting of you
to say that.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
|
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 05:34:33 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:IJeue.7829$NX4.6812@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he
would have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest,
as long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
hah! I happen to equate religion with drug use...how fitting of you to
say that.
Then, since you also think it was perfectly all right for James to decieve
the storeowner as long as he left that store owner feeling good, you
shouldn't have any objections to religion OR drug use, should you? At least,
not on those grounds.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 07:55:02 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:IJeue.7829$NX4.6812@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he
would have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest,
as long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
hah! I happen to equate religion with drug use...how fitting of you to
say that.
Then, since you also think it was perfectly all right for James to decieve
the storeowner as long as he left that store owner feeling good, you
shouldn't have any objections to religion OR drug use, should you? At least,
not on those grounds.
hmmmm...since I said james was action was unethical, that means that I
think it's perfectly all right? I don't think so. I just don't think
it's the bid deal you want to make of it.
Actually, I think drug use and religion are both ok for others, if
they don't hurt other people in the process--that is, in moderation.
I don't do either, because I don't find any value in living in a
fantasy world. Perhaps that's because my life is pretty darn good the
way it is?
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 09:05:22 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:GLnue.7701$hK3.7030@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
<snip to>
hmmmm...since I said james was action was unethical, that means that I
think it's perfectly all right? I don't think so. I just don't think
it's the bid deal you want to make of it.
I guess that's the thing; I honestly believe that committing fraud...a
criminal act that could well be a felony, is a fairly big deal.
Odd of me, perhaps, but there it is.
Actually, I think drug use and religion are both ok for others, if they
don't hurt other people in the process--that is, in moderation. I don't do
either, because I don't find any value in living in a fantasy world.
Perhaps that's because my life is pretty darn good the way it is?
Believe, or don't believe, whatever you wish; I'm not attempting to change
your mind about God, y'know. Just pointing out that ethics belong to the
person who claims them. They shouldn't vary with the wind, or according to
whoever it is they are talking to at the moment.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 10:21:20 PM |
|
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DianaC wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:GLnue.7701$hK3.7030@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
<snip to>
hmmmm...since I said james was action was unethical, that means that I
think it's perfectly all right? I don't think so. I just don't think
it's the bid deal you want to make of it.
I guess that's the thing; I honestly believe that committing fraud...a
criminal act that could well be a felony, is a fairly big deal.
Odd of me, perhaps, but there it is.
I think fraud is a big deal, too, but this is a wierd case--I get the
impression that James was not fishing for the discount, it was offered
to him without his asking for it, even though he did lie about his and
his SIL's religion, so it's hard for me to see that he did anything
criminal. Even if the result could be seen that way.
Actually, I think drug use and religion are both ok for others, if they
don't hurt other people in the process--that is, in moderation. I don't do
either, because I don't find any value in living in a fantasy world.
Perhaps that's because my life is pretty darn good the way it is?
Believe, or don't believe, whatever you wish; I'm not attempting to change
your mind about God, y'know. Just pointing out that ethics belong to the
person who claims them. They shouldn't vary with the wind, or according to
whoever it is they are talking to at the moment.
They shouldn't, but they do. Welcome to the real world.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
|
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 12:24:41 PM |
|
|
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:QUpue.7790$hK3.3415@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:GLnue.7701$hK3.7030@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
<snip to>
hmmmm...since I said james was action was unethical, that means that I
think it's perfectly all right? I don't think so. I just don't think
it's the bid deal you want to make of it.
I guess that's the thing; I honestly believe that committing fraud...a
criminal act that could well be a felony, is a fairly big deal.
Odd of me, perhaps, but there it is.
I think fraud is a big deal, too, but this is a wierd case--I get the
impression that James was not fishing for the discount, it was offered to
him without his asking for it, even though he did lie about his and his
SIL's religion, so it's hard for me to see that he did anything criminal.
Even if the result could be seen that way.
Actually, I think drug use and religion are both ok for others, if they
don't hurt other people in the process--that is, in moderation. I don't
do either, because I don't find any value in living in a fantasy world.
Perhaps that's because my life is pretty darn good the way it is?
Believe, or don't believe, whatever you wish; I'm not attempting to
change your mind about God, y'know. Just pointing out that ethics belong
to the person who claims them. They shouldn't vary with the wind, or
according to whoever it is they are talking to at the moment.
They shouldn't, but they do. Welcome to the real world.
You are quite right, they do...and they shouldn't, and nothing will ever
change if people simply accept that and don't try to change things.
We may never, as a species, reach the goal of perfection; but the
satisfaction of a good life lived isn't so much in achieving perfection, but
in the striving for it.
.
|
|
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| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 03:44:02 PM |
|
|
DianaC wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:QUpue.7790$hK3.3415@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
-snip-
Believe, or don't believe, whatever you wish; I'm not attempting to
change your mind about God, y'know. Just pointing out that ethics belong
to the person who claims them. They shouldn't vary with the wind, or
according to whoever it is they are talking to at the moment.
They shouldn't, but they do. Welcome to the real world.
You are quite right, they do...and they shouldn't, and nothing will ever
change if people simply accept that and don't try to change things.
We may never, as a species, reach the goal of perfection; but the
satisfaction of a good life lived isn't so much in achieving perfection, but
in the striving for it.
I think the concept of perfection is absurd, so don't count on me to
join your mission....
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
|
|
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 05:19:35 PM |
|
|
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:maFue.8382$NX4.3982@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:QUpue.7790$hK3.3415@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
DianaC wrote:
-snip-
Believe, or don't believe, whatever you wish; I'm not attempting to
change your mind about God, y'know. Just pointing out that ethics belong
to the person who claims them. They shouldn't vary with the wind, or
according to whoever it is they are talking to at the moment.
They shouldn't, but they do. Welcome to the real world.
You are quite right, they do...and they shouldn't, and nothing will ever
change if people simply accept that and don't try to change things.
We may never, as a species, reach the goal of perfection; but the
satisfaction of a good life lived isn't so much in achieving perfection,
but in the striving for it.
I think the concept of perfection is absurd, so don't count on me to join
your mission....
I don't think it is absurd. That is, I don't think we have a snowball's
chance in an active volcano of GETTING there, but in striving to reach it,
we end up being a lot better as people than if we forgot the whole thing.
.
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| User: "nJb" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 01:40:24 AM |
|
|
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he would
have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest, as
long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
Replace *victim* with *the other party*.
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
If they misrepresent their product they would regret knowing me.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
22 Jun 2005 09:37:22 AM |
|
|
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9b10o$ckt$1@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he
would have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest,
as long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
Replace *victim* with *the other party*.
Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
If they misrepresent their product they would regret knowing me.
They all do.
.
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| User: "nJb" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 12:19:34 PM |
|
|
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9b10o$ckt$1@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ajn7$29j$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a41s$msm$2@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
You are the one who told us the story. And he did lose money on the
sale. After all, you would have purchased it for your 'good price' had
you not decided to lie. So at least he lost the additional 20% he
would have recieved had you been truthful.
I lost a bundle in the hog market last week. The price of hogs went
through the roof and I had none to sell.
Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit
fraud.
oops.
Oops up side your head. The shopkeeper left the deal feeling good. He got
what he wanted.
Wow, is that upside down; it's ok by you to lie, cheat and be dishonest,
as long as it makes the victim FEEL good?
Replace *victim* with *the other party*.
Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.
Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.
I know a whole bunch of drug dealers that would love you.
If they misrepresent their product they would regret knowing me.
They all do.
That's not true. There are many dealers who do not misrepresent their
product.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 01:05:55 PM |
|
|
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eqqj$vqu$1@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
<snip to>
Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.
Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.
I did already, when I gave you the definition of fraud as it is found in the
California penal code.
<snip to end>
.
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| User: "nJb" |
|
| Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week. |
23 Jun 2005 01:31:51 PM |
|
|
DianaC wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eqqj$vqu$1@news.xmission.com...
DianaC wrote:
<snip to>
Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.
Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.
I did already, when I gave you the definition of fraud as it is found in the
California penal code.
<snip to end>
No that's not a citation. In a citation you point to the law you are
referring to and quote if you wish. Your interpretation of what you read
is not a citation.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
.
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