I FAKED being a Christian this week.

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"RainLover"
Date:	17 Jun 2005 11:43:55 AM
Object:	I FAKED being a Christian this week.

I have an in law who is moving into this area at the end of the year.
She's lived overseas for 20 years, and my wife and I just bought a
house for her (her money, our power of attorney)... anyway, we're
trying to furnish it while on a tight budget.
This week we stopped into a second-hand furniture place... it was nice
enough, a huge selection, some good quality, not so bad prices....
BUT..
But they were listening to the local Christian channel (barf) and,
upon further investigation, had a photo of Jesus on the wall... you
know the one... White guy, Beard, drug-induced smile, "god-light'
creating a halo around his long hair...
Anyway, we found some nice furniture, and for a good price... we ended
up getting a total of about 10 pieces (dinning room/living room)....
THEN, our negotiations began.... The owner went down 10% cuz we were
buying a lot.. nice of him, but it got me thinkin'... what's the
special, secret-handshake price for Christians... so I started
explaining this furniture was for our Christian Sister (actually
Atheist / Buddhist) who had spent 20 years ministering in Korea
(actually, working as well as a Male to Female transexual).
I asked if there was anyway they could help out a Christian trying to
help out another Christian......
BAM, a total of 30% off instead of the 10%.
This Christian thing ROCKS!!!! I might have to put a jesus-fish on my
car for better parking places...
James, Seattle
.

User: "Harry F. Leopold"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	26 Jun 2005 10:17:50 AM

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:31:51 -0500, nJb wrote
(in article <d9ev23$1u6$4@news.xmission.com>):

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eqqj$vqu$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.

Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.

I did already, when I gave you the definition of fraud as it is found in
the
California penal code.

<snip to end>

No that's not a citation. In a citation you point to the law you are
referring to and quote if you wish. Your interpretation of what you read
is not a citation.

I would sure like to know why she keeps bringing up California law when this
took place in Utah if I remember the opening post correctly.
What ever the law is in California means nothing at all in other states.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
�It's all very simple : you believe in a god, I don't. Theists first invented
the concept of god or gods, and the sceptical people said : "Huh?". It's been
downhill from there. ;-)� - Olrik
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	26 Jun 2005 01:59:48 PM

"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEE4314E001EC3B5F0284550@news.central.cox.net...

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:31:51 -0500, nJb wrote
(in article <d9ev23$1u6$4@news.xmission.com>):

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eqqj$vqu$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with
something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a
crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.

Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.

I did already, when I gave you the definition of fraud as it is found in
the
California penal code.

<snip to end>

No that's not a citation. In a citation you point to the law you are
referring to and quote if you wish. Your interpretation of what you read
is not a citation.

I would sure like to know why she keeps bringing up California law when
this
took place in Utah if I remember the opening post correctly.

You don't remember it correctly. James is in Seattle. That's Washington.
State.
I use California law because I'm in California, but the laws against fraud
are fairly standard nationwide.

What ever the law is in California means nothing at all in other states.

Ok, then you go look up the Washington laws regarding this and get a
different take on it.
.

User: "J Forbes"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	26 Jun 2005 10:31:26 AM

Harry F. Leopold wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:31:51 -0500, nJb wrote
(in article <d9ev23$1u6$4@news.xmission.com>):

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9eqqj$vqu$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

Excuse me, but when the 'other party' is induced to part with something
valuable because he believed your lie, that's called 'fraud', is a crime,
and by definition that makes him a victim.

Give a citation that would uphold this as fraud.

I did already, when I gave you the definition of fraud as it is found in
the
California penal code.

<snip to end>

No that's not a citation. In a citation you point to the law you are
referring to and quote if you wish. Your interpretation of what you read
is not a citation.

Seattle (Washington), actually.
Most states have mostly the same laws, with different wording.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.

User: "Tim McGaughy"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 10:49:43 PM

DianaC wrote:

Ah, but the storeowner DID have the furniture to sell, and had already
arrived at a price acceptable to both; until James decided to commit fraud.

oops.

The store owner had arrived at the price he gives everyone.
It was HIS decision to then arrive at the price he gives christians.
.

User: "nJb"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 05:12:35 PM

RainLover wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:18:21 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:76kdb11gs920htu9kum383ruqpj72o5kaq@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:00:51 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"Enkidu the Atheist" <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9678BE4CFB03B255229@130.133.1.4...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:PMJse.30628$yw4.9128@trnddc09:

No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.

Indeed, it would. However, part of repentance is apologizing to the
store owner and reimbursing him for the damage, that is, forking over
the fraudulently obtained 20%. How likely is that?

And the store owner should repent by pleading guilty to violating the
civil
rights of a customer in court, and paying ant fine levied. Sounds good
to
me.

Except that the store owner did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to
bargain. It is not illegal to give a discount, or donate to charity...and
this is what that was

Would it be legal to give a discount to white customers

And I was NO charity... I never said I was. I said I was a Christian
looking for a good deal on used furniture, which I got.

Yeah, FOR your 'sister missionary who had been in Korea ministering for
twenty years'. You didn't get it JUST because YOU were a Christian.

I was BARGAINING with this shop owner... He put out the sign that
Christians got better deals (figuratively speaking)

What, because he listened to religious music? I don't think so.

so I said I was a
Christian in order to get a better deal.

You lied. But you didn't JUST say you were a Christian, did you? You spun
this pathetic story about your Sister missionary.

First you say it's was a 'sob' story... now it's "pathetic" and he
LOST MONEY on the sale... You're a better STORY teller then me.

If I went to the local grocery store and told the check out girl I was
a Christian, 'can I get a better price', she'd say NO... BUT if she
said 'Yes, you can', then that store would be committing a criminal
act.

You can keep claiming this until you are purple, but you are lying now as
you lied then. You didn't get the deal because you were a Christian. You got
it for your sister missionary, specifically for her, specifically because
SHE was in need.

I never said I didn't lie to the guy. And, no, I got the discount
simply because I was 'christian'... you make it sound as if I told him
she lived in a rat-infested grass hut, starving herself as she spread
the word of God. I did no such thing. He knew she lived in Seoul, in
a 30 story apartment complex and had a 'day job'....

I don't know why you're defending this guy.... He actually broke
Federal Law, yet somehow in your twisted mind, I'm the bad guy.

Non-Christians pay more. What would you call it?

I'd say you payed much LESS BECAUSE OF THE SISTER MISSIONARY. As in, the
store owner's cost. He made little or nothing on the transaction. Have you
forgotten that part? YOU STOLE FROM HIM.

Now I gave a 'sob story', I was pathetic, and I Stole from him.

Wow... this is like the game "telephone", except you keep telling the
story over and over yourself and it gets more and more distant from
reality everytime you tell it.

People get awards for this sort of
thing, y'know....

Yes indeed... they are awarded Probabtion to 2 years normally.

Actually, you would be serving 5 to 7 for fraud.

Wow. 5 to 7 years in Prison for saying I was a Christian.... this
truely IS George Bush's America.

snip

Man oh man, Diane... you need to take a Deeeeep Breath... maybe
meditate a while. You've created a parallel reality from what
HAPPENED and what you now THINK happened.

James, Seattle

Can't you just picture her jumping up and down, stomping her feet? This
is funny.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.

User: "No 33 Secretary"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	17 Jun 2005 03:30:50 PM

Kevin Anthoney <kevin_anthoney@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5uCdnXNnQsW-rS7fRVnyrA@pipex.net:

DianaC wrote:

<zamboni30000@knowshpamatyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tm86b15hbnob1ski69i26ogesd7qpelmqc@4ax.com...

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:08:52 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:ort5b1d2hd7h7oseos0jhm2pecvueo3un2@4ax.com...
<snip to>

I asked if there was anyway they could help out a Christian
trying to help out another Christian......

BAM, a total of 30% off instead of the 10%.

This Christian thing ROCKS!!!! I might have to put a jesus-fish
on my car for better parking places...

So much for the claim that atheists have better morals than
Christians do.

So, it's OK for christians to charge non-christians 20% higher
prices? Doesn't sound like you're proving your point, does it?

I would probably get into trouble if I started giving a 20% discount
to my white customers only, donchathink?

Let's see....the standard markup in retail stores, especially
furniture stored with big ticket items, is (according to three
internet sites and my old business courses) between 30 to 39%. Which
means that RainLover got that furniture at, or close to, cost. That's
just at the cost of purchasing the furniture wholesale, not the cost
of purchase, display space, salary, advertising and everything else.
Add that in, and RainLover got that furniture BELOW cost. In other
words, he got a donation under false pretenses, by committing fraud.

No problem. All he has to do is Repent, and everything will be fine.

That may be discrimination, but not on the part of the store owner.

It is important to note that it is illegal, everywhere in the US, for a
retailer to discriminate on the basis of religion. The store clearly broke
the law.
--
Terry Austin
www.hyperbooks.com
Campaign Cartographer now available
.

User: "J Forbes"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	17 Jun 2005 05:12:29 PM

DianaC wrote:

Let's see....the standard markup in retail stores, especially furniture
stored with big ticket items, is (according to three internet sites and my
old business courses) between 30 to 39%. Which means that RainLover got that
furniture at, or close to, cost. That's just at the cost of purchasing the
furniture wholesale, not the cost of purchase, display space, salary,
advertising and everything else. Add that in, and RainLover got that
furniture BELOW cost. In other words, he got a donation under false
pretenses, by committing fraud.

how did you find out what the markup is on used furniture? he said
it's a second hand furniture store. My experience with the markup of
used stuff is that if you don't sell it for twice what you paid for
it, you won't be in business long.

That may be discrimination, but not on the part of the store owner.

It's discrimination on the part of the store owner, and dishonesty on
the part of rainlover.
Kind of like tit-for-tat....
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	17 Jun 2005 07:29:44 PM

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:hVHse.5979$NX4.3422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

Let's see....the standard markup in retail stores, especially furniture
stored with big ticket items, is (according to three internet sites and
my old business courses) between 30 to 39%. Which means that RainLover
got that furniture at, or close to, cost. That's just at the cost of
purchasing the furniture wholesale, not the cost of purchase, display
space, salary, advertising and everything else. Add that in, and
RainLover got that furniture BELOW cost. In other words, he got a
donation under false pretenses, by committing fraud.

how did you find out what the markup is on used furniture?

It's the standard business markup pretty much everywhere. However, for
specifics on USED furniture, the markup that the proprieter of my local used
furniture store uses varies. It can run everywhere from 10% to 50% to 400%
or more, depending upon whether the item in question is an antique that he
got from some estate sale or not, or whether he had to to major repairs on
it. However, finding valuable antiques seldom happens, and the average is
around, yes, 30 to 35%. Yes, Virginia, that's really the way it is, fairly
standardly, throughout the market.

he said it's a second hand furniture store. My experience with the markup
of used stuff is that if you don't sell it for twice what you paid for it,
you won't be in business long.

Ok, let's go with your statement here. Suppose this furniture store owner
did mark his stuff up 100%, as you claim, because if he didn't, he 'wouldn't
be in business long'. If that's the truth, and he would NOT be in business
long if he didn't mark it up that much, then giving someone a thirty percent
discount is cutting into much needed operating capital, isn't it?

That may be discrimination, but not on the part of the store owner.

It's discrimination on the part of the store owner, and dishonesty on the
part of rainlover.

Kind of like tit-for-tat....

Except that this guy admitted that he had already gotten the furniture at a
'good price', with a 10% discount. So it's 'tit' for WHAT 'tat', here? The
store owner had already treated him fairly and well; this man is bragging
about cheating a man who had treated him with honor.
.

User: "J Forbes"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	17 Jun 2005 08:55:47 PM

DianaC wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:hVHse.5979$NX4.3422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

Let's see....the standard markup in retail stores, especially furniture
stored with big ticket items, is (according to three internet sites and
my old business courses) between 30 to 39%. Which means that RainLover
got that furniture at, or close to, cost. That's just at the cost of
purchasing the furniture wholesale, not the cost of purchase, display
space, salary, advertising and everything else. Add that in, and
RainLover got that furniture BELOW cost. In other words, he got a
donation under false pretenses, by committing fraud.

how did you find out what the markup is on used furniture?

One of my neighbors was in the used furniture business for a while,
she generally paid very little for her stock, and sold it for
what-the-market-would-bear prices. She wound up opening a retail
store that sells new furniture, and the margins are slimmer, but the
inventory is more stable.

he said it's a second hand furniture store. My experience with the markup
of used stuff is that if you don't sell it for twice what you paid for it,
you won't be in business long.

so? The proprietor is giving a special discount to what he considers
to be his religious buddies, I expect it wouldn't put him out of
business or he wouldn't do it.

That may be discrimination, but not on the part of the store owner.

It's discrimination on the part of the store owner, and dishonesty on the
part of rainlover.

Kind of like tit-for-tat....

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no
qualms about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the
religious claim....that sounds to me like something that might be
worth getting back at the merchant for.
I think the whole thing is pretty funny.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	18 Jun 2005 01:10:18 AM

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting back
at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

I think you need to read the story again. Rainlover wasn't given a discount
just because he claimed he was a Christian. He was given the discount
because he lied about who the furniture was for; that it was for a SPECIFIC
missionary who had served for twenty years, was returning, broke and in need
of help.
In other words, there was no "Christian discount'. The store owner was
helping someone who needed help.
That you guys can't see this, as plainly as it was written, is beyond me. It
is EXACTLY the same as if someone went up to the store owner and said that
they were buying the furniture for, say....a young couple who had lost
everything in a fire and needed help.
Rainlover lied. He did it because of greed. He took advantage of a man who
honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is now
bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and dishonorable
actions. Why?
yeah. that's a good question. Why?
.

User: "I KILLED YOUR GOD-IT WAS EASY!"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	18 Jun 2005 12:47:19 PM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:eVOse.16843$9a1.1952@trnddc01...

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no

qualms

about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting

back

at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

I think you need to read the story again. Rainlover wasn't given a

discount

just because he claimed he was a Christian. He was given the discount
because he lied about who the furniture was for; that it was for a

SPECIFIC

missionary who had served for twenty years, was returning, broke and in

need

of help.

In other words, there was no "Christian discount'. The store owner was
helping someone who needed help.

That you guys can't see this, as plainly as it was written, is beyond me.

is EXACTLY the same as if someone went up to the store owner and said that
they were buying the furniture for, say....a young couple who had lost
everything in a fire and needed help.

Rainlover lied. He did it because of greed. He took advantage of a man who
honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is now
bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and dishonorable
actions. Why?

yeah. that's a good question. Why?

because you religious freaks have got it coming-that's why *****.
.

User: "J Forbes"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	18 Jun 2005 10:08:21 AM

DianaC wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting back
at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

Yeah, rainlover ran a con on the furniture store owner.

That you guys can't see this, as plainly as it was written, is beyond me. It
is EXACTLY the same as if someone went up to the store owner and said that
they were buying the furniture for, say....a young couple who had lost
everything in a fire and needed help.

Rainlover lied. He did it because of greed. He took advantage of a man who
honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is now
bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and dishonorable
actions. Why?

yeah. that's a good question. Why?

I'm not applauding it, I'm laughing at it....
Maybe it's because the con worked so well because he was pretending to
be religious. I think most of us can see that it's unlikely that the
con would have worked if he had told the truth about who the furniture
was for, even though the person he's helping has the same level of
need as the hypothetical person in the con.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	20 Jun 2005 05:31:38 PM

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:FNWse.6209$NX4.4159@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting
back at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

Yeah, rainlover ran a con on the furniture store owner.

Yes. And he is excusing himself, and y'all are excusing, even applauding
him, for doing so because his mark was a Christian. And you don't see the
hypocrisy in that.

That you guys can't see this, as plainly as it was written, is beyond me.
It is EXACTLY the same as if someone went up to the store owner and said
that they were buying the furniture for, say....a young couple who had
lost everything in a fire and needed help.

Rainlover lied. He did it because of greed. He took advantage of a man
who honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is
now bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and
dishonorable actions. Why?

yeah. that's a good question. Why?

I'm not applauding it, I'm laughing at it....

Same thing.

Maybe it's because the con worked so well because he was pretending to be
religious. I think most of us can see that it's unlikely that the con
would have worked if he had told the truth about who the furniture was
for, even though the person he's helping has the same level of need as the
hypothetical person in the con.

The problem is, we will never know this, because the store owner wasn't
given a chance to act on the truth of the matter, was he?
.

User: "RainLover"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 09:33:21 AM

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:31:38 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:FNWse.6209$NX4.4159@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

snip

Yeah, rainlover ran a con on the furniture store owner.

Yes. And he is excusing himself, and y'all are excusing, even applauding
him, for doing so because his mark was a Christian. And you don't see the
hypocrisy in that.

This thing REALLY got a bug up your pants, didn't it, Diane? You
keep retelling my story like I had the saleman in tears about my poor,
poor sister-in-law. You twisted *MY* story into some elaborate,
planned, well-executed con-job, and nothing could be further from the
truth.
You know what TRUTH is, right?
Did I LIE about being a christian? Yes.
Did I LIE about my sis-in-law being one? Yes.
Was it unethical? My personal set of ethics says NO.
And, you know what... everyone, including you, live by your PERSONAL
set of ethics, not some rules in a book. That's why you and all other
christians pick and choose which parts of your holy book to follow,
while IGNORING other rules set forth by your god.
Do you pray around others?
Do you keep the Sabbath holy.
Do you KILL a witch when you learn of one.
Do you commit Adultry ( which is THINKING impure thoughts, not acting
on them, according to your bible)?
Do you approve of divorce? (adultry again)
In this furniture situation, where this owner coverted his secular
business of selling furniture into a makeshift temple to his god, I
felt very strongly that as a non-christian, I would not have been
welcomed, so I brought forth my Christian past and played one for him.
He liked it. He gave me a better deal because of *THAT* , not, as you
have twisted around, because my sisterinlaw was a poor,
poverty-stricken missionary (which she wasn't and he knew... YOU
LIED... there was NO 'sob-story' ... You LIED and made that up)
James, Seattle
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 02:01:32 PM

"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:5a8gb11tbr801a875krkqqigbv9ahnille@4ax.com...

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:31:38 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:FNWse.6209$NX4.4159@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

snip

Yeah, rainlover ran a con on the furniture store owner.

Yes. And he is excusing himself, and y'all are excusing, even applauding
him, for doing so because his mark was a Christian. And you don't see the
hypocrisy in that.

This thing REALLY got a bug up your pants, didn't it, Diane?

Yes. You see, I have been DEFENDING atheists for years. Whenever some theist
comes up with teh 'atheists have no ethics' or 'atheists have no morals
because morals come from God', I land all over them. Always have. I have
never accused atheists in general of being dishonest, or unethical; far from
it....and I do NOT defend the evil that a theist does to an atheist because
of his target. So yeah, this one has a burr up my butt, and quite rightly
so. You really screwed up, James.

You
keep retelling my story like I had the saleman in tears about my poor,
poor sister-in-law. You twisted *MY* story into some elaborate,
planned, well-executed con-job, and nothing could be further from the
truth.

I simply repeated your story. You changing it now?

You know what TRUTH is, right?

Yeah. You told a lie. You told the storeowner that you were Christian and
that your sister-in-law was a Christian missionary who had been ministering
in Korea for 20 years, was coming home and needed furniture, which you were
getting for her. On the strength of that story, he gave you a 30% discount,
whereas before he was only giving you a 'good price' and a 10% discount. In
other words, he was treating you honorably, and you commited fraud upon him
because you didn't like his music or his artwork.
I know that you don't like my way of presenting it, but the thing is, that's
what you did. Sorry.
<snip to end>
And I'm done.

Did I LIE about being a christian? Yes.
Did I LIE about my sis-in-law being one? Yes.

Was it unethical? My personal set of ethics says NO.

Then I would say that your personal set of ethics is faulty.
<snip to end>
.

User: "RainLover"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	20 Jun 2005 10:17:10 AM

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:10:18 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting back
at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

This is HILARIOUS to me... I know the story.. I was THERE... Hell,
It's *MY* story, yet, here is a Christian claiming to tell everyone
else what the story is really about and how it really happened.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?
I'm *HERE* I told the initial story... I KNOW the story, yet, Diana
now knows the store owner's profit margin, his motivations, my
motivations, and is saying "as plainly as it is written" simply
because you see it differently than she does.

Now... if she can't get a contemporary story right, how can she (or
any christian) believe they are getting a 2000 year old story right??
Sorry about breaking all your irony meters on this one.

Rainlover lied.

Yes.

He did it because of greed.

My wife and I looked for a home for her sister for 3 months. We
looked at over 20 homes. My wife got a power of attorney and bought
her sister a house (with her sister's money).
And now, we're trying to make this house a HOME for her, so when she
arrives, she feels loved and comfortable.
With her very limited resources, we are buying EVERYTHING for a home,
from a garden hose, to a screwdriver, to beds, mixing bowls, and a
stove. We've spent 100's of hours doing all of this and still go out
and mow her yard every other week and ... well, I think you get the
idea.
I guess I'm just an unethical *****, because in my twisted world
view, I'm not seeing my own greed
Please point out my greed, oh-great-dispenser of all that is
ethical....

He took advantage of a man who
honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is now
bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and dishonorable
actions. Why?

He *DID* help someone. Very much so. He *ONLY* did it because he
thought I was a Christian, yet you call me unethical.

Why?

Why indeed.
James-the-Unethical, Seattle
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	20 Jun 2005 05:36:19 PM

"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:ipldb1t9flfsgr00eqtureli4fteb1p04p@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:10:18 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no
qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting
back
at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

This is HILARIOUS to me... I know the story.. I was THERE... Hell,
It's *MY* story, yet, here is a Christian claiming to tell everyone
else what the story is really about and how it really happened.

You told us what happened. I'm going on your story. ARe you now changing
that?

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

You admitted that your actions were unethical yourself.

I'm *HERE* I told the initial story... I KNOW the story, yet, Diana
now knows the store owner's profit margin,

I did the research on the standard profit margin. Did you bother to ask?

his motivations, my
motivations, and is saying "as plainly as it is written" simply
because you see it differently than she does.

I went by your story. You changing the story?

Now... if she can't get a contemporary story right, how can she (or
any christian) believe they are getting a 2000 year old story right??

Sorry about breaking all your irony meters on this one.

Rainlover lied.

Yes.

He did it because of greed.

That's very nice of you. Really.

With her very limited resources, we are buying EVERYTHING for a home,
from a garden hose, to a screwdriver, to beds, mixing bowls, and a
stove. We've spent 100's of hours doing all of this and still go out
and mow her yard every other week and ... well, I think you get the
idea.

That's very nice of you. Really. So how does this justify your lie?

I guess I'm just an unethical *****, because in my twisted world
view, I'm not seeing my own greed

Obviously not.

Please point out my greed, oh-great-dispenser of all that is
ethical....

You lied to get an additional discount on the furniture. Gee, how hard is
that to identify?

He took advantage of a man who
honestly wanted to help a specific someone who needed help, and is now
bragging about it, and you are applauding his dishonest and dishonorable
actions. Why?

He *DID* help someone. Very much so. He *ONLY* did it because he
thought I was a Christian, yet you call me unethical.

DID he, now?
Did you give him a chance to help you as a result of telling him the TRUTH?
No?
Then you can't tell us what he would have done.

Why?

Why indeed.

James-the-Unethical, Seattle

User: "RainLover"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 09:11:45 AM

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:36:19 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:ipldb1t9flfsgr00eqtureli4fteb1p04p@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:10:18 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:DaLse.5492$hK3.2361@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DianaC wrote:

The merchant who was so generous to give him a 10% discount had no
qualms
about *not* giving him a 30% discount until he made the religious
claim....that sounds to me like something that might be worth getting
back
at the merchant for.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.

This is HILARIOUS to me... I know the story.. I was THERE... Hell,
It's *MY* story, yet, here is a Christian claiming to tell everyone
else what the story is really about and how it really happened.

You told us what happened. I'm going on your story. ARe you now changing
that?

When did I say I gave the guy a sob story? I DID say she just bought
a house and was looking for good deals so we could furnish the house
with everything. A true SOB STORY would have been my sister-in-law
being so poor as to have to move to Utah and rent an apartment from a
mormon... for that he would have given 80% for THAT story. hehe

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

You admitted that your actions were unethical yourself.

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....
At the rate you're going, I'm going to be able to believe that Jesus
was in Bethlehem to open a gay disco but over the years the story kept
changing due to story-tellers such as your self until it morphed into
the story we NOW know about "jesus".

I'm *HERE* I told the initial story... I KNOW the story, yet, Diana
now knows the store owner's profit margin,

I did the research on the standard profit margin. Did you bother to ask?

Your research is as bogus as the "research" done by Focus On The
Family about Evolution.

He did it because of greed.

That's very nice of you. Really.

That's very nice of you. Really. So how does this justify your lie?

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....
I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

I guess I'm just an unethical *****, because in my twisted world
view, I'm not seeing my own greed

Obviously not.

Please point out my greed, oh-great-dispenser of all that is
ethical....

You lied to get an additional discount on the furniture. Gee, how hard is
that to identify?

It wasn't my money. We were going to buy the furniture, even if he
didn't give more off the price (although HE didn't know that). I
thought GREED involved some sort of greedy behavior. I'm having
difficulty seeing my greediness here....
Pretend as if I'm a godless heathen and spell out my act of greed
please.
snip
James, Seattle
.

User: "nJb"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	21 Jun 2005 05:21:02 PM

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

At the rate you're going, I'm going to be able to believe that Jesus
was in Bethlehem to open a gay disco but over the years the story kept
changing due to story-tellers such as your self until it morphed into
the story we NOW know about "jesus".

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

A guy slammed into the rear of our car as my wife was waiting to turn
into our driveway. The first words out of his mouth was some mumbo jumbo
about having 2 sons on missions. Playing the mormon card to me was a big
mistake.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	22 Jun 2005 12:01:40 AM

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a3oj$msm$1@news.xmission.com...

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

A guy slammed into the rear of our car as my wife was waiting to turn into
our driveway. The first words out of his mouth was some mumbo jumbo about
having 2 sons on missions. Playing the mormon card to me was a big
mistake.

Oh, honey, that wasn't the "Mormon" card.
That was the 'oh, no, I'm completely BROKE and now THIS!" card. Two sons on
missions is a very expensive proposition. ;-)
.

User: "nJb"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	22 Jun 2005 01:47:50 AM

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a3oj$msm$1@news.xmission.com...

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

A guy slammed into the rear of our car as my wife was waiting to turn into
our driveway. The first words out of his mouth was some mumbo jumbo about
having 2 sons on missions. Playing the mormon card to me was a big
mistake.

Oh, honey, that wasn't the "Mormon" card.

That was the 'oh, no, I'm completely BROKE and now THIS!" card. Two sons on
missions is a very expensive proposition. ;-)

It was the Mormon card. He was hoping that I was a Mormon and would cut
him some slack.
Granted, missionary work is expensive, (I was going to go on a mission
until I found out I had to pay for it and they chose the location. I
know, fraud) it has no effect on me. I figure if he can waste his money
on what I consider nonsense he can damn sure fix my car. Sad thing is,
if he had kept his mouth shut he could have driven away as if nothing
had happened. I *am* a compassionate person.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	22 Jun 2005 09:56:54 AM

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9b1em$cun$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a3oj$msm$1@news.xmission.com...

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

Oh, honey, that wasn't the "Mormon" card.

That was the 'oh, no, I'm completely BROKE and now THIS!" card. Two sons
on missions is a very expensive proposition. ;-)

It was the Mormon card. He was hoping that I was a Mormon and would cut
him some slack.

Hey. I'm a Mormon and *I* wouldn't have cut him any slack. I'd have simply
requested the insurance card.

Granted, missionary work is expensive, (I was going to go on a mission
until I found out I had to pay for it and they chose the location. I know,
fraud)

You were? What religion did you belong to that did that (yeah, the LDS
church chose the location and I had to pay for it, but sheesh; it wasn't a
secret!)? If you were a MORMON and 'built altars" in your bedroom, you
truly were nuts. That is a very big no no. ;-)

it has no effect on me. I figure if he can waste his money on what I
consider nonsense he can damn sure fix my car. Sad thing is, if he had
kept his mouth shut he could have driven away as if nothing had happened.
I *am* a compassionate person.

You are? Then why would HIS religion mean anything to YOUR compassion?
.

User: "nJb"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	23 Jun 2005 12:30:19 PM

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9b1em$cun$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a3oj$msm$1@news.xmission.com...

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

Oh, honey, that wasn't the "Mormon" card.

That was the 'oh, no, I'm completely BROKE and now THIS!" card. Two sons
on missions is a very expensive proposition. ;-)

It was the Mormon card. He was hoping that I was a Mormon and would cut
him some slack.

Hey. I'm a Mormon and *I* wouldn't have cut him any slack. I'd have simply
requested the insurance card.

But my point was that he was trying to use religious fellowship to shirk
his responsibility.

Granted, missionary work is expensive, (I was going to go on a mission
until I found out I had to pay for it and they chose the location. I know,
fraud)

I was an atheist hoping to get 2 free years in New Zealand. I was never
a Mormon, my parents attempted to program me Catholic.

You are? Then why would HIS religion mean anything to YOUR compassion?

My compassion went away when the Mormon card was played. His religion
was not an issue until he tried to make it so. I denied him the benefit
he hoped to get and penalized him the benefit he likely would have gotten.

--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	23 Jun 2005 05:22:36 PM

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9ereo$hv$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9b1em$cun$1@news.xmission.com...

DianaC wrote:

"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d9a3oj$msm$1@news.xmission.com...

RainLover wrote:

No. The IRONY is in the fact that you keep adding to and changing my
story, yet your entire FAITH is based on 2,000 years of story
retelling.....

Make that 175 years.

Where in ANY of this have I tried to justify my lie? I already
admitted to lying about being a Christian to this guy. I did it to
see if I could get a 'christian' price on the furniture. I've had
MANY yard sales over the years... and at EVERY F*CKING one of them
people have come up to me and anounced that they "are christian" and
ask for a better price. I learned from them....

I said I was a christian, and got a better price. And I'll do it
again if I ever feel the salesman is open to that.

A guy slammed into the rear of our car as my wife was waiting to turn
into our driveway. The first words out of his mouth was some mumbo
jumbo about having 2 sons on missions. Playing the mormon card to me
was a big mistake.

Oh, honey, that wasn't the "Mormon" card.

That was the 'oh, no, I'm completely BROKE and now THIS!" card. Two sons
on missions is a very expensive proposition. ;-)

It was the Mormon card. He was hoping that I was a Mormon and would cut
him some slack.

Hey. I'm a Mormon and *I* wouldn't have cut him any slack. I'd have
simply requested the insurance card.

But my point was that he was trying to use religious fellowship to shirk
his responsibility.

Granted, missionary work is expensive, (I was going to go on a mission
until I found out I had to pay for it and they chose the location. I
know, fraud)

You were? What religion did you belong to that did that (yeah, the LDS
church chose the location and I had to pay for it, but sheesh; it wasn't
a secret!)? If you were a MORMON and 'built altars" in your bedroom, you
truly were nuts. That is a very big no no. ;-)

I was an atheist hoping to get 2 free years in New Zealand. I was never a
Mormon, my parents attempted to program me Catholic.

Well then you can't blame THEM for being decietful, can you?

You are? Then why would HIS religion mean anything to YOUR compassion?

My compassion went away when the Mormon card was played. His religion was
not an issue until he tried to make it so. I denied him the benefit he
hoped to get and penalized him the benefit he likely would have gotten.

And that is all you. He didn't *make* you do anything.
.

User: "nJb"
Title: Re: I FAKED being a Christian this week.	24 Jun 2005 02:00:55 AM