| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Hank" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2007 01:41:18 AM |
| Object: |
I have a question,please. |
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
.
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 07:24:24 AM |
|
|
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
It's not a requirement, but it's the case for me and most atheists I
know.
I believe that everything that happens in the universe is natural.
Just because something might not have a perfectly natural explanation
right now doesn't make it "supernatural" to me. As is the case
throughout history, things that were deemed "supernatural" were
eventually explained by completely natural means.
Things like thunder and lightning and earthquakes and volcano
eruptions used to be considered supernatural and needed angry
gods or spirits to explain them, but no more. It's the same with
anything you might come up with that you think is supernatural.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "bramble" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 03:41:01 AM |
|
|
Hank ha escrito:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
My position is that there are many people telling lies, just to get
atentions from the general populaton and journalists. Some supposed
crazy people could be no that crazy but he was made this way by telling
weird things, or weird experiences. The get atentions from telling
other people that.
Anyway, it rest their your own experience. I have never experienced
any supernatural, or miraculous experience; neither over my body, not
on others before my eyes. So, as I never watched any weird fenomenom,
I tend not to believe they really exist. Have you experienced any of
these phenomena, like ESP, Psychism, or any other wonders such as
miracles?
It is the same thing with the gods. Let'us suppose that I take tea
several times a week with Jesus the Christ. I chat with Jesus over
this and that quite often, I watch him carefully and can tell you that
he has a freckle the size of a dime, on his left cheek. He appears
always wearing a tunic like it is supposed the Jews were wearing two
thousand years ago. The first time he appeared in my home, he was
talking to me in Aramaic and I did not understand a *****. Then I asked
him, "please, spoke in a Christian language". I always had thought
that god speaks in English, in the old style of King James. So, Jesus
smirked at me, like he was saying, 'what ignorant jerk is this guy',
and he started to talk in plain English to me. We talk abou many
things, like baseball, American football, politics, movies, and
everything. He likes much to chat and love a lot the Danish butter
cookies. I always have a big can of Danish cookies at home to treat
him with the best. Also he loves the green tea, not that common tea
everybody gets, but special green tea from China, en shi yu lu, that is
very expensive.
Just to put it short, I never had tea with god. I mean, I never had
tea with any of the known gods, like Krisna, Allah, Jesus, Brahma,
Mythra or any others, so I do not believe in gods. Call it a lack of
proper experience. If some people pretend to believe in god, he could
have their own reasons. The most common is to get atentions and money
from gullible people. This is not that easy, but I heard of some
crooks that were able to sell to some gullible turists, the Golden
Bridge of San Francisco, the Rockefeller Center of NYC, or the Eiffel
tower in Paris. You can sell almost anything. You only need great
patience and a silver tongue.
Bramble
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 04:06:37 AM |
|
|
bramble wrote:
My position is that there are many people telling lies, just to get
atentions from the general populaton and journalists.
You are so right on that one. A lot of people tell lies.
I don't believe in in myself.
As for the rest of your post, good creative humor.
I hope you enjoyed writing it as much as I enjoyed reading it.
I needed a good grin. THUMBS UP!
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 08:17:09 AM |
|
|
Hank schreef:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
As others surely will have said already
being an atheist means you live your life without any God(s).
There is some discussion about whether an atheist must be sure there is
no God,
or that he just thinks there is insuffient reason to suppose there is
one,
but that is realy unimportant.
Personally I do no believe in anything "supernatural" either,
but that is not nescessairy to be an atheist.
Those who are philisophically materialsts (like me)
think there is no reason to believe that besides matter and energy
(the material "stuff"), there is also spiritual "stuff".
Of course it is quite difficult to be a materialst and to believe in
God also.
By the way, the opposit of materialsm is dualism.
In dualism spiritual "stuff" exists.
To me the spiritual is everything that only exists in the human brain.
Ideas, words, abstractions etc.
Even Materialism itself is spiritual:)
This NG is dedicted to the idea (or the realization) that there are no
Gods.
There are many goodwilling Theists (who believe in God(s))
posting her to, Thinking they may save our souls
Most of us do not believe we have souls,
(though it is theoretically possible that there are souls but no God)
But it is a nice thought anyway.
Many of them however are contraproductive,
when they project hatred bigotry and intolerance.
Which brings many an atheist to flame theists whenever they can.
But a theist who behaves politely and succeeds in intelligent
conversation,
sometimes finds a welcome here too.
Peter van Velzen
Atheist#1107
January 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 08:24:50 AM |
|
|
On 20 Jan 2007 06:17:09 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Hank schreef:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
As others surely will have said already
being an atheist means you live your life without any God(s).
There is some discussion about whether an atheist must be sure there is
no God,
or that he just thinks there is insuffient reason to suppose there is
one,
Only among those who either
(a) imagine everything revolves around the beliefs of their own
religion,
(b) imagine everything revolves around the beliefs of somebody else's
religion.
but that is realy unimportant.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 08:21:36 AM |
|
|
On 20 Jan 2007 06:17:09 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Hank schreef:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
As others surely will have said already
being an atheist means you live your life without any God(s).
There is some discussion about whether an atheist must be sure there is
no God,
or that he just thinks there is insuffient reason to suppose there is
one,
but that is realy unimportant.
Only among those who either
(a) imagine everything evolves around the beliefs of their own
religion,
(b) imagine everything revolves around the beliefs of somebody else's
religion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 04:29:31 PM |
|
|
Christopher A.Lee schreef:
On 20 Jan 2007 06:17:09 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Hank schreef:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
As others surely will have said already
being an atheist means you live your life without any God(s).
There is some discussion about whether an atheist must be sure there is
no God,
or that he just thinks there is insuffient reason to suppose there is
one,
but that is realy unimportant.
Only among those who either
(a) imagine everything evolves around the beliefs of their own
religion,
(b) imagine everything revolves around the beliefs of somebody else's
religion.
Didn't you snip the wrong part of my post?
The text you left in is solely about atheist
and i do think atheists do not have a religion:)
Peter van Velzen
January 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 06:40:26 PM |
|
|
On 20 Jan 2007 14:29:31 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Christopher A.Lee schreef:
On 20 Jan 2007 06:17:09 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Hank schreef:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
As others surely will have said already
being an atheist means you live your life without any God(s).
There is some discussion about whether an atheist must be sure there is
no God,
or that he just thinks there is insuffient reason to suppose there is
one,
but that is realy unimportant.
Only among those who either
(a) imagine everything evolves around the beliefs of their own
religion,
(b) imagine everything revolves around the beliefs of somebody else's
religion.
Didn't you snip the wrong part of my post?
The text you left in is solely about atheist
and i do think atheists do not have a religion:)
Peter van Velzen
January 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
I clicked send too early, cancelled this and resent a better version
:-(
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "L. Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 02:22:20 AM |
|
|
Hank wrote:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
Do you believe that one or more god exists? If yes, you're theist, if
not, you're atheist.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
The word simply means someone who doesn't believe in the existence of
any god. There is a lot of baggage associated with it, and many people
will try to say atheists can't believe in ghosts or anything
supernatural, but that's simply stereotyping. Just don't attribute a
miracle to a god; that would make you an atheist.
As for happenings that can't be explained by science, I think you'll
find most all of them can. Near death experiences, weird optical
illusions, auditory hallucinations etc. all have non-supernatural
explanations.
--
L. Raymond
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 02:50:05 AM |
|
|
L. Raymond wrote:
Hank wrote:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
Do you believe that one or more god exists? If yes, you're theist, if
not, you're atheist.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
The word simply means someone who doesn't believe in the existence of
any god. There is a lot of baggage associated with it, and many people
will try to say atheists can't believe in ghosts or anything
supernatural, but that's simply stereotyping. Just don't attribute a
miracle to a god; that would make you an atheist.
As for happenings that can't be explained by science, I think you'll
find most all of them can. Near death experiences, weird optical
illusions, auditory hallucinations etc. all have non-supernatural
explanations.
--
L. Raymond
Thank you for your quick reply. I do appreciate your answer.
Would you be willing to believe me if I told you that for a period of
about 7 years begining on Dec.8,1992 that I had more than a few times
when I caused changes in the world around me just by the power of
thought during times of meditation mixed with desire? I have witnesses
who can verify that it was't imagination and who also will not claim
"coincedence".
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sara Brum" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 02:56:02 AM |
|
|
"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169283004.987559.130230@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
L. Raymond wrote:
Hank wrote:
I don't say that I'm an atheist,
but I did not join here to argue with anyone.
Do you believe that one or more god exists? If yes, you're theist, if
not, you're atheist.
I would like to ask if being an atheist means
that you don't believe in anything
"supernatural"?
I'm thinking of
various accounts of experiences such as esp,
"miracles",etc.
Happenings that science cannot explain but
are deemed "real" and not "imagination" or "delusion/hallucination"
or fabrication by those who recount such happenings.
Can I get some feedback here?
The word simply means someone who doesn't believe in the existence of
any god. There is a lot of baggage associated with it, and many people
will try to say atheists can't believe in ghosts or anything
supernatural, but that's simply stereotyping. Just don't attribute a
miracle to a god; that would make you an atheist.
As for happenings that can't be explained by science, I think you'll
find most all of them can. Near death experiences, weird optical
illusions, auditory hallucinations etc. all have non-supernatural
explanations.
--
L. Raymond
Thank you for your quick reply. I do appreciate your answer.
Would you be willing to believe me if I told you that for a period of
about 7 years begining on Dec.8,1992 that I had more than a few times
when I caused changes in the world around me just by the power of
thought during times of meditation mixed with desire? I have witnesses
who can verify that it was't imagination and who also will not claim
"coincedence".
I'm willing to believe that you believe it. Would you care to give us an
example?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 03:36:02 AM |
|
|
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sara Brum" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 05:26:11 AM |
|
|
"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169285762.062931.298990@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
I see nothing in this recounting that would lead me to believe that you have
any special ability.
You should probably consult a physician concerning the tingling and bright
light visions; perhaps even a neurologist.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 02:59:49 PM |
|
|
"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169285762.062931.298990@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
No offense, but there's nothing in that story to indicate you have any
particular power whatsoever. May I ask why you think there is?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 04:21:45 PM |
|
|
I had many more experiences other than just that one.They always
included images and effects. I think it strange that I would see an
image of a man using a skillsaw (symbolic of someone seperating or
tearing apart something) and an actual occurance of a "seperation"
combined in the same incedent as well as the effect seeming to coincide
with my will. The vision preceeded the girl moving to the front room.
I once told a woman her baby's name without having known it. I didn't
know I was correct and said it in the form of a question and was
shocked when she comfirmed that I was correct.
One incedent is not much too convincing but when you have many, it is
a thing to ponder for explanations.
The bright light was as though one were looking at the sun in the
sky,sometimes with hands reaching up towards it.
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional. I don't expect to
convince anyone unless you are willing to believe that I am not lying.
Thanks for your feedback.
Mark Stahl wrote:
"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169285762.062931.298990@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
....
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
No offense, but there's nothing in that story to indicate you have any
particular power whatsoever. May I ask why you think there is?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
21 Jan 2007 09:34:45 AM |
|
|
"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169331705.230382.86010@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I had many more experiences other than just that one.They always
included images and effects. I think it strange that I would see an
image of a man using a skillsaw (symbolic of someone seperating or
tearing apart something) and an actual occurance of a "seperation"
combined in the same incedent as well as the effect seeming to coincide
with my will. The vision preceeded the girl moving to the front room.
I once told a woman her baby's name without having known it. I didn't
know I was correct and said it in the form of a question and was
shocked when she comfirmed that I was correct.
One incedent is not much too convincing but when you have many, it is
a thing to ponder for explanations.
The bright light was as though one were looking at the sun in the
sky,sometimes with hands reaching up towards it.
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional. I don't expect to
convince anyone unless you are willing to believe that I am not lying.
Thanks for your feedback.
The human brain is highly conditioned to find patterns and remember certain
things while forgetting others. I have no doubt that you believe what you
are saying- however, there is still nothing beyond your own internal and
subjective experience here. Moreover, we're highly conditioned to need
explanations for things. There's little wonder that people with vivid
imaginations and deep feeling often feel connected to external experiences
they observe. This is not uncommon, and you're hardly the first person to
feel like you do. Of course I cannot guarantee this is the case with you,
but others with experiences similar to yours have had these feelings brought
on and/or eliminated by the stimulation of specific brain regions or through
the use of psychotropic drugs (I can find references for you later if you
like). This is fairly definitive proof that their experiences were, in fact,
"all in their heads". I would be surprised if a similar result were not
found if you were tested like this.
Some of your experiences are just simple features of our cognitive
processes. For example, guessing someone's baby's name like that is
impressive and there's no doubt you'd remember something like that. It's
memorable. You may not remember nearly so well the much more common
situation where you guess like that and are wrong, though. It's probably
happend dozens of times without you being conscious of it.
You would really need to show a cause and effect relationship with your
"powers" to be convincing. IOW, tell someone beforehand that you're going to
make something out of the ordinary happen, make it happen, and then do it
again.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
21 Jan 2007 07:06:53 AM |
|
|
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
22 Jan 2007 02:32:50 AM |
|
|
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
22 Jan 2007 12:21:10 PM |
|
|
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank [jrlogan]" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
28 Jan 2007 01:48:26 AM |
|
|
On Jan 22, 12:21 pm, Elroy Willis <elroywil...@swbell.net> wrote:
Hank <cookoojab...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojab...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
--
Elroy Williswww.elroysemporium.com
Do hallucinations cause effects upon things outside of your mind?,
effects that others can also notice?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
29 Jan 2007 01:18:49 PM |
|
|
Hank [jrlogan] <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywil...@swbell.net> wrote:
Hank <cookoojab...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojab...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
Do hallucinations cause effects upon things outside of your mind?,
effects that others can also notice?
I recall one case of a man who thought he could fly, because of a
hallucination he had. He jumped off the balcony, flapped his arms,
and plummeted to his death, landing on top of someone walking by
down below, killing them. So yes, hallucinations can affect things
and people outside your mind, if you think they're real enough to act
on them.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
27 Jan 2007 10:50:47 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:21:10 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
Or he pleads a fifth.... ;)
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
27 Jan 2007 04:29:47 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:50:47 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <hm0nr2lqvd6ec7g2pccf37lm8kg850m7ul@4ax.com>
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:21:10 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
Or he pleads a fifth.... ;)
Or simply pretend that the question was not asked, like he has been
doiong with my simple, but potentially revealling question!
The guy is a craven coward.
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
31 Jan 2007 10:30:34 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 08:59:47 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:50:47 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <hm0nr2lqvd6ec7g2pccf37lm8kg850m7ul@4ax.com>
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:21:10 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>
wrote in alt.atheism
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Hank <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I do realise that many people make things up and others have delusions
and hallucinations but I know from the abundance of my experiences and
seeing a real world effect that I was not delusional.
Have you ever had a hallucination before? If not, how would you know
when you had one?
I think in this case I would find myself in a catch22 by answering
either "yes" or "no". I plead the 5th.
Are you afraid to accept that they might be hallucinations?
Or he pleads a fifth.... ;)
Or simply pretend that the question was not asked, like he has been
doiong with my simple, but potentially revealling question!
The guy is a craven coward.
Such is, in the main, Christianity.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "L. Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 05:14:20 PM |
|
|
Hank wrote:
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", ...
You're probably unaware of this, but your choosing this phrasing is a
way of allowing you to dismiss people who don't believe you as being
closed minded. If I say what you wrote is nonsense, you say I'm
offended at the thought of unexplained phenomena. It's dishonest of
you.
... but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
I had to look this one up. You wrote to a murderer about forgiveness?
Did you ask for it or give it? I'm guessing you wrote it, and you felt
probably felt very pleased with yourself afterwards. Did you feel as
though you were channelling a sort of cosmic, for want of a better word,
forgiveness to Mr. Chapman?
--
L. Raymond
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
20 Jan 2007 09:50:35 PM |
|
|
I will say that I detest Chapman for what he did. I mailed it on the
12th aniversary of the murder out of spite. What I said about
forgiveness had to do with Christianity. I don't think he should ask
the public for forgiveness. It will never happen.
I'm saying you don't have to believe anything but I'm begging to say
that I'm an honest person because I really am and yes people who are
not willing to believe that such things as mind over matter may be
possible are closed minded. I know well the meaning of what I said.
L. Raymond wrote:
Hank wrote:
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", ...
You're probably unaware of this, but your choosing this phrasing is a
way of allowing you to dismiss people who don't believe you as being
closed minded. If I say what you wrote is nonsense, you say I'm
offended at the thought of unexplained phenomena. It's dishonest of
you.
... but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
I had to look this one up. You wrote to a murderer about forgiveness?
Did you ask for it or give it? I'm guessing you wrote it, and you felt
probably felt very pleased with yourself afterwards. Did you feel as
though you were channelling a sort of cosmic, for want of a better word,
forgiveness to Mr. Chapman?
--
L. Raymond
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
27 Jan 2007 10:48:30 AM |
|
|
On 20 Jan 2007 01:36:02 -0800, "Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
Use it?
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
I don't see any 'useage' or 'change.'
Daydreams aren't something to worry about, imo. The mind is a funny
thing, and anything can happen in a relaxed state. It can also seem
very very real. Little audio cues can be integrated into the dream.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
27 Jan 2007 04:31:03 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:48:30 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <970nr2t9jc2oi7cadjoouuj41pe43alevf@4ax.com>
On 20 Jan 2007 01:36:02 -0800, "Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
Use it?
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
I don't see any 'useage' or 'change.'
Daydreams aren't something to worry about, imo. The mind is a funny
thing, and anything can happen in a relaxed state. It can also seem
very very real. Little audio cues can be integrated into the dream.
Some folks have been given a Sainthood for their hallucinations.
Perhaps Hank should be talking to the Pope?
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
31 Jan 2007 10:31:39 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:01:03 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:48:30 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <970nr2t9jc2oi7cadjoouuj41pe43alevf@4ax.com>
On 20 Jan 2007 01:36:02 -0800, "Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
Use it?
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
I don't see any 'useage' or 'change.'
Daydreams aren't something to worry about, imo. The mind is a funny
thing, and anything can happen in a relaxed state. It can also seem
very very real. Little audio cues can be integrated into the dream.
Some folks have been given a Sainthood for their hallucinations.
Perhaps Hank should be talking to the Pope?
It might help if he bent over and grabbed his ankles.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: I have a question,please. |
31 Jan 2007 05:16:42 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:31:39 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <p2h1s291kacspllttcp20n5j6diepe4ak5@4ax.com>
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:01:03 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:48:30 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <970nr2t9jc2oi7cadjoouuj41pe43alevf@4ax.com>
On 20 Jan 2007 01:36:02 -0800, "Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Thank you,
First I would like to say that I am interested in the opinions of
those who are atheists that do not disclude the possibility for
irrational realities such as the ones that I
described. To those that say such things are not real, I just say "you
ain't been around". I welcome skeptics.
Ok,you asked so here I shall begin: I will at this time not fully
detail the event of Dec.8,'92 that began my "experiences of power". I
might offend some of you who don't want to hear about "religious
experiences", but it involved sending a letter that day to Mark David
Chapman at Attica State Prison and something about forgiveness.
That evening a sudden tingling sensation hit me in the head and went
down all over me.
Many changes soon followed including seeing visions of a bright light
like looking at the sun when I would lay down. I discovered also the
"power " that I mentioned.
I shall describe my use of such power that happened one evening but I
do not say that it was right of me to use it the way I did;
Use it?
My half brother was across the street at the nieghbors with a girl
that I thought not good for him. I went beside the house and while
meditating saw a vision of a dark man using a skillsaw as if cutting
something. I was then startled when a light came on in the front room
and I left. I asked the girl the next day what happened and she said
her and my brother were together and suddenly she had a panic attack
and trouble breathing and went into the front room to the sofa to
recover.
I don't see any 'useage' or 'change.'
Daydreams aren't something to worry about, imo. The mind is a funny
thing, and anything can happen in a relaxed state. It can also seem
very very real. Little audio cues can be integrated into the dream.
Some folks have been given a Sainthood for their hallucinations.
Perhaps Hank should be talking to the Pope?
It might help if he bent over and grabbed his ankles.
As the Vatican astromer exclaimed:
"I can see Uranus, you Holiness!
And a black hole!"
--
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
