| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"insaner" |
| Date: |
23 Nov 2006 01:41:30 AM |
| Object: |
i propose a study |
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 08:08:39 AM |
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"insaner" <hooray@for.spam> wrote in message
news:ek3ifl$6hk$1@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca...
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on atheist,
christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone, and intent
of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform, annoy, insult,
convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or foul language, or
the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from, and to what
newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
What do you do with people who are 'banned' from certain 'Christian'
newsgroups and, hence, are not being 'registered' as to how their 'views'
are being perceived?
Greywolf
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
10 Dec 2006 10:34:09 PM |
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What do you do with people who are 'banned' from certain 'Christian'
newsgroups and, hence, are not being 'registered' as to how their 'views'
are being perceived?
Greywolf
well, since i cant read those posts.. i have no choice but to ignore
them.. not much more i can do..
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 01:43:07 AM |
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Considering the rather high volume of posts on these groups, the
considerable amount of unwanted cross-posting and the differences in
opinion on what is considered a rude post versus one that is
acceptable, you would need a significant amount of manpower and custom
written software in order to do the study without noticable bias. I
don't think it is practical for one person to do without significant
support. The task is likely beyond the means of any organization less
than a major university's computer sciences department, a marketing
research firm or a polling organization.
Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 08:48:39 AM |
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:41:30 -0500, in alt.talk.creationism
insaner <hooray@for.spam> wrote in <ek3ifl$6hk$1@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca>:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
What do you expect to accomplish here?
Even the most polite and informative poster will occasionally insult a
particularly dense or dishonest poster.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 02:14:37 AM |
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:41:30 -0500, insaner <hooray@for.spam> wrote:
- Refer: <ek3ifl$6hk$1@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca>
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
I suggest that it would be a waste of your time due to the appalling
signal-to-noise ratio of most newsgroups.
To categorise the individual posts, even into spam/not spam bins, (let
alone those arbitrary variable categories that you propose) would
invoke a subjective influence that would render any results
meaningless.
But go ahead anyway.
--
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
10 Dec 2006 10:38:22 PM |
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I suggest that it would be a waste of your time due to the appalling
signal-to-noise ratio of most newsgroups.
To categorise the individual posts, even into spam/not spam bins, (let
alone those arbitrary variable categories that you propose) would
invoke a subjective influence that would render any results
meaningless.
there is no such thing as an "objective" study anyways, no matter what,
the results of any study or experiment are tainted by personal
expectation and interpretation among other things.. doesnt mean its
meaningless..
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
11 Dec 2006 10:29:38 AM |
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On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:38:22 -0500, insaner <hooray@for.spam> wrote:
there is no such thing as an "objective" study anyways, no matter what,
the results of any study or experiment are tainted by personal
expectation and interpretation among other things.. doesnt mean its
meaningless..
I suggest you do two things before embarking on such a "study":
1) Learn how Usenet actually works. You don't seem to have a handle
on it yet. Maybe actually BEING ON Usenet for a few years would help.
2) Learn how statistical studies are done. Learn what "double blind"
means.
Doing your study your way will merely show you that what you expect to
be true is true. Why waste your time merely confirming your
prejudices?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to
the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his
children smart.
- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
11 Dec 2006 04:24:59 PM |
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1) Learn how Usenet actually works. You don't seem to have a handle
on it yet. Maybe actually BEING ON Usenet for a few years would help.
how do you figure?
2) Learn how statistical studies are done. Learn what "double blind"
means.
Doing your study your way will merely show you that what you expect to
be true is true. Why waste your time merely confirming your
prejudices?
perhaps, but then again i could find other things along the way too.. so
it wouldnt actually be a waste of time, would it? and why do i
automatically have prejudices now? or were you just speaking hypothetically?
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "jrh" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
24 Jan 2007 02:54:44 PM |
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insaner <hooray@for.spam> wrote in
news:elkkv8$hhr$1@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca:
1) Learn how Usenet actually works. You don't seem to have a handle
on it yet. Maybe actually BEING ON Usenet for a few years would
help.
how do you figure?
2) Learn how statistical studies are done. Learn what "double blind"
means.
Doing your study your way will merely show you that what you expect
to be true is true. Why waste your time merely confirming your
prejudices?
perhaps, but then again i could find other things along the way too..
so it wouldnt actually be a waste of time, would it? and why do i
automatically have prejudices now? or were you just speaking
hypothetically?
How is the study going?
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 08:08:02 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:41:30 -0500, insaner wrote:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
Sorry but "just read around the newsgroups" isn't much of a methodology.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language
is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse *****. We don't
just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their
pockets for new vocabulary." -James D. Nicoll
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
10 Dec 2006 10:30:28 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:41:30 -0500, insaner wrote:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
Sorry but "just read around the newsgroups" isn't much of a methodology.
thats right, but its not really a "scientific" study, rather a personal,
general study. no need to be sorry.
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 01:53:57 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet insaner (hooray@for.spam)
made the light shine upon us with this:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort
of have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better
right away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here
it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the
tone, and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to
inform, annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to
impolite or foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the
posts came from, and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the
posters of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and
anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
Atheists and Christians have been after each other on these newsgroups
for years. Why? Because we can beat each other to a bloody pulp,
wordwise, anonymously. Do we act like this in person? I know I don't.
Your results will only reflect how people treat each other from behind
two-way mirrors, adding the ability to stop time to audition a few
responses before actually posting them.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 12:46:27 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:53:57 +0000, Uncle Vic wrote:
Atheists and Christians have been after each other on these newsgroups
for years. Why? Because we can beat each other to a bloody pulp,
wordwise, anonymously. Do we act like this in person?
Speak for yourself, Vic.
I know I don't.
Oh. Well, okay.
For myself, I say exactly the same things here that I would say in person,
face to face. That's one reason I don't use a pseudonym. I mean what I
say and I say what I mean. If someone has a problem with it, it's _their_
problem, not mine.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 01:15:46 PM |
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Frank Mayhar <frank@exit.com> said:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:53:57 +0000, Uncle Vic wrote:
Atheists and Christians have been after each other on these newsgroups
for years. Why? Because we can beat each other to a bloody pulp,
wordwise, anonymously. Do we act like this in person?
Speak for yourself, Vic.
I know I don't.
Oh. Well, okay.
For myself, I say exactly the same things here that I would say in person,
face to face. That's one reason I don't use a pseudonym. I mean what I
say and I say what I mean. If someone has a problem with it, it's _their_
problem, not mine.
It's a great rule -- be here, as you are in person. But I use a
semi-pseudonym because a few years back, someone started using my
screen name (which was my real name) to say some very loathsome
things. I also change my screen name annually. In a few weeks it will
become Jim07D7.
Happy T-day,
-- Jim07D6
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 08:07:05 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:46:27 -0800, Frank Mayhar wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:53:57 +0000, Uncle Vic wrote:
Atheists and Christians have been after each other on these newsgroups
for years. Why? Because we can beat each other to a bloody pulp,
wordwise, anonymously. Do we act like this in person?
Speak for yourself, Vic.
I know I don't.
Oh. Well, okay.
For myself, I say exactly the same things here that I would say in person,
face to face. That's one reason I don't use a pseudonym. I mean what I
say and I say what I mean. If someone has a problem with it, it's _their_
problem, not mine.
Heh. Reminds me of the last time somebody wandered in here, claiming we
wouldn't say in person what we say online. I piped up with "I would."
And, you know, they believed me...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned
and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and
the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong
its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until
all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic
is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever
before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions
may prove groundless." -Abraham Lincoln
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| User: "Azure" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 03:39:11 AM |
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Try gnostics, alt.angels, alt. religion.gods, for a good cross reference.
insaner wrote:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
.
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 11:44:27 AM |
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insaner <hooray@for.spam> said:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
-insaner
www.insaner.com
I have some suggestions.
1. Identify, via a preliminary survey, certain words that are commonly
used in the categories of tone and intent and the subcategories --
it's possible that the categories will sort themselves out a little
more when you do this. Having certain words identified will make the
rest of this study easier, especially if you have numerous people
doing the study.
2. Concentrate only on original posts and "first responses" to those
original posts. Subsequent responses tend to become conversations
between two individuals and tend to become repetitive.
For example, taking your original post on this topic ("i propose a
study") and say, the first 24 hours of responses directly to it, is
what I suggest be analysed.
Doing this would make it a little easier, too.
But one thing would be interesting -- does the original poster reply
to the responses to his post? It seems that commonly, trollers do not.
So, original posts need their own classifications system -- are they
simple inquiries, rants, trolls, reports on news events, etc?
3. In the event that an original post is crossposted to more than one
group, it would be good to know the group from which each response
comes, to answer questions like, which groups are more likely to have
friendly replies. I am responding from alt.atheism. Is there a way for
you to know this, other than my telling you?
Finally, one interesting experiment would be to originate some posts
yourself, sending them separately (not crossposted) to each of your
subject newsgroups. Change your screen name each time, and send posts
supporting and attacking certain beliefs, more neutral topics, etc.,
and analyze the responses you get. Do people reading your post on,
say, alt.atheism respond differently than people on
alt.talk.creationism, etc.?
Just some thoughts. I'd be happy to participate at some modest level
if the study is straightforward to do.
-- Jim07D6
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
10 Dec 2006 10:32:58 PM |
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thanks for the pointers jim! ill keep those in mind.. and thanks for
offering to help, ill let you know what direction this thing will take soon
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
23 Nov 2006 11:21:03 PM |
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insaner wrote:
hey guys, i propose a study, i have yet to embark upon it, and i sort of
have an idea what i will find.. you can probably tell me better right
away, but ill try to do it.. as little time as i have.. but here it is..
i propose to just read around the newsgroups, focusing mainly on
atheist, christian, and anti-christian newsgroups.. and noting the tone,
and intent of posts... ie, whether the post was intended to inform,
annoy, insult, convince, etc.. whether the post resorted to impolite or
foul language, or the opposite.. and of course, who the posts came from,
and to what newsgroup they were posted.
in the end, i hope to find out what kinds of people make up (the posters
of) each side. i am ignoring muslim, jewish, anti-muslim and anti-jewish
newsgroups, it would be too much just now.
you are free to respond to this thread.
Thanks
<PLONK>
-insaner
www.insaner.com
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| User: "insaner" |
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| Title: Re: i propose a study |
10 Dec 2006 10:31:02 PM |
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you are free to respond to this thread.
Thanks
<PLONK>
sorry, i dont actually know what that means..
--
insaner
www.insaner.com
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