| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MarkA" |
| Date: |
16 Jul 2004 06:42:35 AM |
| Object: |
I saw it with my own eyes |
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
These young kids were being told over and over about God and Jesus, with
no opportunity to consider dissenting opinions. At least my daughter is
going to hear dissenting opinions at home, but many of those children will
grow up in a family environment where the existence of God, Jesus, and the
veracity of the Bible are foregone conclusions.
As I looked at the parents, it also occurred to me that most of these kids
will grow up to be like their parents: they understand that whether God
exists or not makes little difference in day-to-day life: you believe and
go to church on Sunday because that is what you have always done, and that
is what your parents did, and you don't really examine *why* you believe.
You don't think about the contradictions and atrocities in the Bible
because it just rocks the boat, and nothing useful comes of it.
I think this is why the vast majority of Christians are "passive"
Christians: they know that there are legitimate objections to their
religion, but they choose not to pursue it. They do what they have always
done. Only a few on each extreme become impassioned: some become
evangelists, some become atheists. The mainstream religionists will find
both of these camps to be a curiosity to be largely ignored.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
16 Jul 2004 08:09:07 AM |
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MarkA says
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yeah.
These young kids were being told over and over about God and Jesus, with
no opportunity to consider dissenting opinions. At least my daughter is
going to hear dissenting opinions at home, but many of those children will
grow up in a family environment where the existence of God, Jesus, and the
veracity of the Bible are foregone conclusions.
Yeah.
As I looked at the parents, it also occurred to me that most of these kids
will grow up to be like their parents: they understand that whether God
exists or not makes little difference in day-to-day life: you believe and
go to church on Sunday because that is what you have always done, and that
is what your parents did, and you don't really examine *why* you believe.
You don't think about the contradictions and atrocities in the Bible
because it just rocks the boat, and nothing useful comes of it.
Yeah.
I think this is why the vast majority of Christians are "passive"
Christians: they know that there are legitimate objections to their
religion, but they choose not to pursue it. They do what they have always
done.
Yeah.
Only a few on each extreme become impassioned: some become
evangelists, some become atheists.
I think you're a bit off there.
WRT religious evangelism, there are far more than a few. Some are impassioned
hucksters, some are less impassioned in their hucksterism, but all are selling,
selling, selling.
WRT atheism, I think it's usually an intellectual conclusion, not an
impassioned emotional one. Except for alt.atheism, one seldom comes across
impassioned atheist hucksters who are always selling, selling, selling.
I also suspect that few who reject religion become atheists in any meaningful
sense of the word. Instead, they mostly become "don't cares" or "not
interesteds" -- people who just ignore a topic they consider irrelevant to
their lives.
The mainstream religionists will find
both of these camps to be a curiosity to be largely ignored.
I'm not so sure. The "passive Christians" and the "don't cares/not
interesteds" are the focus of all the hucksterism. They're the "Available
Market" -- the ones who can be persuaded to change brands or to become a
paying, brand-loyal customer.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
16 Jul 2004 10:17:39 AM |
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On 16 Jul 2004 13:09:07 GMT, jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
MarkA says
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yeah.
These young kids were being told over and over about God and Jesus, with
no opportunity to consider dissenting opinions. At least my daughter is
going to hear dissenting opinions at home, but many of those children will
grow up in a family environment where the existence of God, Jesus, and the
veracity of the Bible are foregone conclusions.
Yeah.
As I looked at the parents, it also occurred to me that most of these kids
will grow up to be like their parents: they understand that whether God
exists or not makes little difference in day-to-day life: you believe and
go to church on Sunday because that is what you have always done, and that
is what your parents did, and you don't really examine *why* you believe.
You don't think about the contradictions and atrocities in the Bible
because it just rocks the boat, and nothing useful comes of it.
Yeah.
I think this is why the vast majority of Christians are "passive"
Christians: they know that there are legitimate objections to their
religion, but they choose not to pursue it. They do what they have always
done.
Yeah.
Only a few on each extreme become impassioned: some become
evangelists, some become atheists.
I think you're a bit off there.
WRT religious evangelism, there are far more than a few. Some are impassioned
hucksters, some are less impassioned in their hucksterism, but all are selling,
selling, selling.
WRT atheism, I think it's usually an intellectual conclusion, not an
impassioned emotional one. Except for alt.atheism, one seldom comes across
impassioned atheist hucksters who are always selling, selling, selling.
Don't you believe it. One of the reasons I'm in alt.atheism is that in
the early 1990s a colleague was a well-known talk.origins loony. I
followed him from an internal bulletin board to talk.origins then
alt.atheism. He had a large fan club, one of whose members (in his
bible-study group) was in my department) and in fact one of the
departments was run by a fundy mafia.
Also many of my (Catholic) girlfriend's circle are very pushy. They
think they're doing me a favour by trying to convert me, but they
don't know what an atheist is, what he does and doesn't believe
already, etc. some of them can get pretty obnoxious even though they
mean well. A few are actively hostile.
But where I live now, people aren't very vocal about it but they still
take it very seriously. I've got used to them saying the pledge at the
local model railway club's business meetings but it came as a shock,
especially when they shouted the "under God". And they believe what
they're told by Fox, Pat Robertson etc. Like the guy who told me that
the ACLU wants to rid the country of Christianity and God. You can't
reason with these guys - the very premises they argue from are lies
even though they don't realise it.
I also suspect that few who reject religion become atheists in any meaningful
sense of the word. Instead, they mostly become "don't cares" or "not
interesteds" -- people who just ignore a topic they consider irrelevant to
their lives.
They're still atheists. after a while God-belief becomes like Santa
Claus belief.
The deity of somebody else's religion isn't an issue.
But the behaviour of its members towards atheists is.
Even the non-pushy ones. There's the near universal assumption that
anybody they meet will be Christian. They've also swallowed the lies
of their religion and their leaders about atheists.
The mainstream religionists will find
both of these camps to be a curiosity to be largely ignored.
I'm not so sure. The "passive Christians" and the "don't cares/not
interesteds" are the focus of all the hucksterism. They're the "Available
Market" -- the ones who can be persuaded to change brands or to become a
paying, brand-loyal customer.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
16 Jul 2004 01:26:44 PM |
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The strength of all religions is based on two things.
1. Panic fear of death and what comes after death.
2. The fear of God's retribution and eternal damnation if they question
their religious teachings. It is a "sin" to question the existence of God!
--
Bill
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:78off0lpu3a0jse2fijsnf272cfgs3jhvc@4ax.com...
On 16 Jul 2004 13:09:07 GMT, jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
MarkA says
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yeah.
These young kids were being told over and over about God and Jesus, with
no opportunity to consider dissenting opinions. At least my daughter is
going to hear dissenting opinions at home, but many of those children
will
grow up in a family environment where the existence of God, Jesus, and
the
veracity of the Bible are foregone conclusions.
Yeah.
As I looked at the parents, it also occurred to me that most of these
kids
will grow up to be like their parents: they understand that whether God
exists or not makes little difference in day-to-day life: you believe
and
go to church on Sunday because that is what you have always done, and
that
is what your parents did, and you don't really examine *why* you
believe.
You don't think about the contradictions and atrocities in the Bible
because it just rocks the boat, and nothing useful comes of it.
Yeah.
I think this is why the vast majority of Christians are "passive"
Christians: they know that there are legitimate objections to their
religion, but they choose not to pursue it. They do what they have
always
done.
Yeah.
Only a few on each extreme become impassioned: some become
evangelists, some become atheists.
I think you're a bit off there.
WRT religious evangelism, there are far more than a few. Some are
impassioned
hucksters, some are less impassioned in their hucksterism, but all are
selling,
selling, selling.
WRT atheism, I think it's usually an intellectual conclusion, not an
impassioned emotional one. Except for alt.atheism, one seldom comes
across
impassioned atheist hucksters who are always selling, selling, selling.
Don't you believe it. One of the reasons I'm in alt.atheism is that in
the early 1990s a colleague was a well-known talk.origins loony. I
followed him from an internal bulletin board to talk.origins then
alt.atheism. He had a large fan club, one of whose members (in his
bible-study group) was in my department) and in fact one of the
departments was run by a fundy mafia.
Also many of my (Catholic) girlfriend's circle are very pushy. They
think they're doing me a favour by trying to convert me, but they
don't know what an atheist is, what he does and doesn't believe
already, etc. some of them can get pretty obnoxious even though they
mean well. A few are actively hostile.
But where I live now, people aren't very vocal about it but they still
take it very seriously. I've got used to them saying the pledge at the
local model railway club's business meetings but it came as a shock,
especially when they shouted the "under God". And they believe what
they're told by Fox, Pat Robertson etc. Like the guy who told me that
the ACLU wants to rid the country of Christianity and God. You can't
reason with these guys - the very premises they argue from are lies
even though they don't realise it.
I also suspect that few who reject religion become atheists in any
meaningful
sense of the word. Instead, they mostly become "don't cares" or "not
interesteds" -- people who just ignore a topic they consider irrelevant
to
their lives.
They're still atheists. after a while God-belief becomes like Santa
Claus belief.
The deity of somebody else's religion isn't an issue.
But the behaviour of its members towards atheists is.
Even the non-pushy ones. There's the near universal assumption that
anybody they meet will be Christian. They've also swallowed the lies
of their religion and their leaders about atheists.
The mainstream religionists will find
both of these camps to be a curiosity to be largely ignored.
I'm not so sure. The "passive Christians" and the "don't cares/not
interesteds" are the focus of all the hucksterism. They're the
"Available
Market" -- the ones who can be persuaded to change brands or to become a
paying, brand-loyal customer.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
17 Jul 2004 06:11:52 AM |
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Bill wrote:
The strength of all religions is based on two things.
1. Panic fear of death and what comes after death.
Pah easily solved..200 Mushrooms and a kawasaki 650GPZ
2. The fear of God's retribution and eternal damnation if they question
their religious teachings. It is a "sin" to question the existence of God!
Ah well...thats just cowardice...
'Hey God...***** and die you fat fucking sadist.'
Usually gives no response....even 'God' is afraid to obey me !
:)
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
16 Jul 2004 10:29:11 AM |
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On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:42:35 +0000, MarkA wrote:
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yep. "Activist Judges" is the latest brainwashing variant.
[]
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
16 Jul 2004 04:36:47 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote in
news:pan.2004.07.16.15.29.11.391369@localhost.localdomain:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:42:35 +0000, MarkA wrote:
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yep. "Activist Judges" is the latest brainwashing variant.
You're not questioning Big Brother, are you, Citizen?
--
Dr. Winston, Ministry of Truth
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
17 Jul 2004 06:20:55 PM |
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On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:36:47 +0000 in episode
<Xns9528A926542BDaskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18> we saw our hero Doc
Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com>:
"stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote in
news:pan.2004.07.16.15.29.11.391369@localhost.localdomain:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:42:35 +0000, MarkA wrote:
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred
to me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yep. "Activist Judges" is the latest brainwashing variant.
You're not questioning Big Brother, are you, Citizen?
Emmanuel Goldstoney?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: I saw it with my own eyes |
17 Jul 2004 06:44:24 PM |
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On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:36:47 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote in
news:pan.2004.07.16.15.29.11.391369@localhost.localdomain:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:42:35 +0000, MarkA wrote:
My wife is Catholic; I am an atheist. My 9 year old daughter has been
going to "Bible camp" for the past week, and last night was the grand
finale: a show for the parents. As I sat there watching a group of a
dozen or so 9-ish year old boys and girls singing song after song about
how Jesus loves you, and Jesus died for your sins, etc... it occurred to
me that I was witnessing classic brainwashing in action.
Yep. "Activist Judges" is the latest brainwashing variant.
You're not questioning Big Brother, are you, Citizen?
Of course not! I'm emptying my bowels on BB.
.
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