| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
26 Apr 2005 01:30:17 PM |
| Object: |
Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
Found on:
oksecular · Oklahoma Secular
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:33 pm
Subject: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario
tvlampboy@...
Idaho atheists may sue over scheduling blunder
Associated Press
KTVB-TV, Idaho
Apr. 24, 2005
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for the same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month because of
the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:51 pm
Subject: Idaho Statesman Story -- Unconstitutional Favoritism
tvlampboy@...
Idaho Atheists may sue over scheduling flub: Group reserved stairs, then
was asked to move
By Gregory Hahn for The Idaho Statesman | 04-23-2005
The yearly National Day of Prayer is scheduled to take place on the Idaho
Statehouse steps May 5, but a group that already had reserved the public
space is unhappy and may take the state to court.
A member of the Idaho Atheists reserved the stairs in February, but this
month, Statewide Facilities Manager Tim Mason said his office had made a
mistake.
"To make a long story short, I called and said we had screwed up," he said.
Mason said the National Day of Prayer was a recurring event set for the
first Thursday of May each year, and it should already have been on the
calendar when the atheist group tried to reserve the spot.
He blamed the problem on "a glitch" when the office "changed computer
calendar programs."
Idaho Statehouse rules allow any group to reserve the building or its steps
for public events, as long as they adhere to safety, sound and cleanup
rules. The policy is first-come, first-served.
Mason said a recurring event "counts as first-come."
He said he offered Susan Harrington, who had made the reservation for the
atheist group, a chance to move the group's event to the east or west
stairs of the Statehouse but said he hasn't heard back. He said he
understands that she's upset because she didn't do anything wrong.
"Nor had the other group done anything wrong," he said. "It was sort of a
no-win deal for us."
But American Civil Liberties Union of Idaho Executive Director Jack Van
Valkenburgh said that if Mason's policy is to allow for recurring events,
it should say so in the policy. "If he didn't put it in the policies,
that's his fault," he said. "And he can change that." Van Valkenburgh said
the scheduling mix-up smells bad because the Idaho Atheists have tried to
get their proclamations signed in the past. Gov. Dirk Kempthorne has
declined to sign proclamations the group has suggested, like "Atheist
Heritage Week" and "Idaho Day of Reason."
"I can't help but believe it's because of their unpopularity," Van
Valkenburgh said.
On Friday afternoon, he said Idaho ACLU leaders had decided to take on the
case. A local attorney willing to do the work for free will be found, and
the process will begin, he said.
Harrington declined to talk to the Statesman for this story, but in a
letter she wrote to Kempthorne, she criticized his past endorsement of and
appearances at the National Day of Prayer events and asked him to direct
Mason's office to allow the atheists to use the front stairs. "Government
must remain neutral with respect to religion," she wrote, "so that every
citizen can be treated equally."
The National Day of Prayer was created by Congress, signed into law by
Harry Truman and then amended and reauthorized by Ronald Reagan in 1988.
The concept, its organizers say on their Web site, goes back to an 1863
call from Abraham Lincoln for a day of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer."
Kempthorne has been vocal about his religious beliefs since he was elected
governor and before.
"The day he was sworn into office, there was an ecumenical event," his
chief of staff, Brian Whitlock, said. "He's not the least bit shy about his
faith and his beliefs."
Whitlock and Mason both said Kempthorne's office didn't know about the
scheduling problem until after Mason told the atheists they would have to
move off the front steps.
"It doesn't matter what the group is," Mason said. "Nobody's trying to make
any kind of statement."
In 2003, Mason tried to deny a request by the People for the Ethical
Treatment of Animals when that group wanted a display on the steps. It used
photographs to compare the treatment of animals with the Holocaust that
Mason called "patently offensive." The group threatened to sue, and he
concluded there was nothing the state could do to prevent the display, and
it was put up, uneventfully, for 90 minutes.
*****************************************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
***********************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[Below is a discussion group for the above site]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
.
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| User: "Clayton Reveals \I Had Elviss Baby\...Page 7" |
|
| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 06:16:15 PM |
|
|
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h32t61t0qb9akietlrun4vj4ikk98n56mu@4ax.com...
Found on:
oksecular · Oklahoma Secular
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:33 pm
Subject: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario
tvlampboy@...
Idaho atheists may sue over scheduling blunder
Associated Press
KTVB-TV, Idaho
Apr. 24, 2005
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for the same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month because of
the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:51 pm
Subject: Idaho Statesman Story -- Unconstitutional Favoritism
tvlampboy@...
Idaho Atheists may sue over scheduling flub: Group reserved stairs, then
was asked to move
By Gregory Hahn for The Idaho Statesman | 04-23-2005
The yearly National Day of Prayer is scheduled to take place on the Idaho
Statehouse steps May 5, but a group that already had reserved the public
space is unhappy and may take the state to court.
A member of the Idaho Atheists reserved the stairs in February, but this
month, Statewide Facilities Manager Tim Mason said his office had made a
mistake.
"To make a long story short, I called and said we had screwed up," he
said.
Mason said the National Day of Prayer was a recurring event set for the
first Thursday of May each year, and it should already have been on the
calendar when the atheist group tried to reserve the spot.
He blamed the problem on "a glitch" when the office "changed computer
calendar programs."
As they quickly scramble to adjust records and destroy and create documents
to make this seem like it's true.
.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 06:22:38 PM |
|
|
"Clayton Reveals "I Had Elvis's Baby"...Page 7"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in message
news:426ecb06$0$4654$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h32t61t0qb9akietlrun4vj4ikk98n56mu@4ax.com...
Found on:
oksecular · Oklahoma Secular
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:33 pm
Subject: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario
tvlampboy@...
Idaho atheists may sue over scheduling blunder
Associated Press
KTVB-TV, Idaho
Apr. 24, 2005
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case
involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for the
same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first
Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month because of
the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
Then they need to reserve a different day.
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:51 pm
Subject: Idaho Statesman Story -- Unconstitutional Favoritism
tvlampboy@...
Idaho Atheists may sue over scheduling flub: Group reserved stairs, then
was asked to move
By Gregory Hahn for The Idaho Statesman | 04-23-2005
The yearly National Day of Prayer is scheduled to take place on the
Idaho
Statehouse steps May 5, but a group that already had reserved the public
space is unhappy and may take the state to court.
A member of the Idaho Atheists reserved the stairs in February, but this
month, Statewide Facilities Manager Tim Mason said his office had made a
mistake.
"To make a long story short, I called and said we had screwed up," he
said.
Mason said the National Day of Prayer was a recurring event set for the
first Thursday of May each year, and it should already have been on the
calendar when the atheist group tried to reserve the spot.
He blamed the problem on "a glitch" when the office "changed computer
calendar programs."
As they quickly scramble to adjust records and destroy and create
documents
to make this seem like it's true.
.
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| User: "NC" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 06:48:05 PM |
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"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in
news:zJydndR2gImqUPPfRVn-rQ@ez2.net:
"Clayton Reveals "I Had Elvis's Baby"...Page 7"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in message
news:426ecb06$0$4654$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h32t61t0qb9akietlrun4vj4ikk98n56mu@4ax.com...
Found on:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case
involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for
the
same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first
Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month
because of the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Cue obligatory Seinfeld bit:
"I see you know how to *take* the reservation, but you don't know how to
*hold* the reservation. And that's really the most important part, the
holding. Anyone can just take 'em."
NC
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| User: "Dave Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 06:46:05 PM |
|
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"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:zJydndR2gImqUPPfRVn-rQ@ez2.net...
"Clayton Reveals "I Had Elvis's Baby"...Page 7"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in message
news:426ecb06$0$4654$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h32t61t0qb9akietlrun4vj4ikk98n56mu@4ax.com...
Found on:
oksecular · Oklahoma Secular
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:33 pm
Subject: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario
tvlampboy@...
Idaho atheists may sue over scheduling blunder
Associated Press
KTVB-TV, Idaho
Apr. 24, 2005
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case
involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for the
same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first
Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month because
of
the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 08:26:33 PM |
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"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:zJydndR2gImqUPPfRVn-rQ@ez2.net...
"Clayton Reveals "I Had Elvis's Baby"...Page 7"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in message
news:426ecb06$0$4654$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h32t61t0qb9akietlrun4vj4ikk98n56mu@4ax.com...
Found on:
oksecular · Oklahoma Secular
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oksecular/
From: tvlampboy@...
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:33 pm
Subject: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario
tvlampboy@...
Idaho atheists may sue over scheduling blunder
Associated Press
KTVB-TV, Idaho
Apr. 24, 2005
The American Civil Liberties Union in Idaho is taking on a case
involving
the group Idaho Atheists. They reserved the Statehouse steps for the
same
date as the National Day of Prayer -- held annually on the first
Thursday
of May. The atheist group's reservation was denied this month because
of
the "long-standing activities" of the prayer day group.
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
They can have the cleanup duties for those days.
.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 07:39:28 PM |
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"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
.
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| User: "Dave Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 09:04:40 PM |
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"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group had applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
So under the current conditions I rather doubt an atheist could use the
state steps on any religious holiday.
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
26 Apr 2005 10:27:44 PM |
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"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
You lose again.
.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 09:43:58 AM |
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"Dana" <anon@noneya.com> writes:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
Thanks for confirming Dave's point, which of course you deleted.
You lose again.
Do you always lie?
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
aa1347, Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 06:14:52 PM |
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"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:m2k6moth3l.fsf@stitch.tukla.net...
"Dana" <anon@noneya.com> writes:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
Thanks for confirming Dave's point,
Dave did not have a point.
.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 12:18:26 PM |
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"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:m2k6moth3l.fsf@stitch.tukla.net...
"Dana" <anon@noneya.com> writes:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
Thanks for confirming Dave's point, which of course you deleted.
You lose again.
Do you always lie?
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already booked
I suggested the second group should book a different date
Somebody asked if Thanksgiving or Christmas would be suitable
I said, sure, if the date is open
Dave threw out an incomprehensable scenario that disputed the facts as
already known
Dana snipped, and stated the booking was a recurring one
You accuse Dana of lying.
1.) I don't see the lying that you accuse Dana of.
2.) I don't care when the atheists want to use the steps as long as they
follow the same booking procedure as everybody else, and do not demand
double booking with groups they don't even like.
3.) The complaints the atheists are raising, if the facts as I understand
them are even close to being accurate, serve only to enflame everybody into
demanding that government stop letting anybody use the steps for anything.
4.) Tthe steps belong to everybody, but everybody can't show up on the same
day. The steps can and should be reasonably booked to one group at a time.
If the first choice for your date is taken, get a different date. If you
were smart, you would book early ...
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 06:21:36 PM |
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"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:7a2dnQHwrJn6VPLfRVn-sA@ez2.net...
"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:m2k6moth3l.fsf@stitch.tukla.net...
"Dana" <anon@noneya.com> writes:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
Thanks for confirming Dave's point, which of course you deleted.
You lose again.
Do you always lie?
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already
booked
I suggested the second group should book a different date
Somebody asked if Thanksgiving or Christmas would be suitable
I said, sure, if the date is open
Dave threw out an incomprehensable scenario that disputed the facts as
already known
Dana snipped, and stated the booking was a recurring one
You accuse Dana of lying.
1.) I don't see the lying that you accuse Dana of.
2.) I don't care when the atheists want to use the steps as long as they
follow the same booking procedure as everybody else, and do not demand
double booking with groups they don't even like.
3.) The complaints the atheists are raising, if the facts as I understand
them are even close to being accurate, serve only to enflame everybody
into
demanding that government stop letting anybody use the steps for anything.
4.) Tthe steps belong to everybody, but everybody can't show up on the
same
day. The steps can and should be reasonably booked to one group at a time.
If the first choice for your date is taken, get a different date. If you
were smart, you would book early ...
But then they will say that the atheists did book early. Which they did
according to the story posted, but the article went on to expalin that a
screwup happened because they changed computer systems, and a reocurring
event was not placed on the calender. And by the rules established
reocurring events take first place. The official in question did try to
accomodate the atheists by offering them a different area on the same day,
but it appears the atheists rejected this offer.
It is not like the state worker went out of his way to screw over the
atheist group.
.
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 02:51:03 PM |
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:18:26 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
--------------snip--------------------
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already booked
Perhaps this is your source of error. I believe that the self-professed
atheists were the first party to reserve the venue then were denied by
claiming that "previous groups come first" (paraphrased) even though they
hadn't signed up.
If that were the case then the city should have penciled in the previous
group, not given them preference after another registered.
I suggested the second group should book a different date
Somebody asked if Thanksgiving or Christmas would be suitable
I said, sure, if the date is open
Dave threw out an incomprehensable scenario that disputed the facts as
already known
Dana snipped, and stated the booking was a recurring one
You accuse Dana of lying.
1.) I don't see the lying that you accuse Dana of.
2.) I don't care when the atheists want to use the steps as long as they
follow the same booking procedure as everybody else, and do not demand
double booking with groups they don't even like.
3.) The complaints the atheists are raising, if the facts as I understand
them are even close to being accurate, serve only to enflame everybody into
demanding that government stop letting anybody use the steps for anything.
4.) Tthe steps belong to everybody, but everybody can't show up on the same
day. The steps can and should be reasonably booked to one group at a time.
If the first choice for your date is taken, get a different date. If you
were smart, you would book early ...
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com http://mp3.dubyaspeak.com/internets.mp3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 03:09:46 PM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.27.19.51.01.340617@curlysurmudgeon.com...
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:18:26 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
--------------snip--------------------
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already
booked
Perhaps this is your source of error. I believe that the self-professed
atheists were the first party to reserve the venue then were denied by
claiming that "previous groups come first" (paraphrased) even though they
hadn't signed up.
If that were the case then the city should have penciled in the previous
group, not given them preference after another registered.
To forward that theory, one would have to live life always thinking that
there was some sort of conspiracy taking place against them. One wold be
required to believe that everybody was lying to them, at which point they
would become exhausted by always separating the wheat from the chaf manually
instead of letting the wheat and chaf separate itself.
The guy in charge of the list said that the steps were signed up for as a
long standing arrangement, and that the atheists had somehow been given
initial permission to do something on a day when another group had already
made its arrangements. Too bad, so sad.
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 06:22:59 PM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.27.19.51.01.340617@curlysurmudgeon.com...
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:18:26 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
--------------snip--------------------
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already
booked
Perhaps this is your source of error. I believe that the self-professed
atheists were the first party to reserve the venue then were denied by
claiming that "previous groups come first" (paraphrased) even though they
hadn't signed up.
The rules are that reocurring events take precedence.
I suggested the second group should book a different date
Somebody asked if Thanksgiving or Christmas would be suitable
I said, sure, if the date is open
Dave threw out an incomprehensable scenario that disputed the facts as
already known
Dana snipped, and stated the booking was a recurring one
You accuse Dana of lying.
1.) I don't see the lying that you accuse Dana of.
2.) I don't care when the atheists want to use the steps as long as they
follow the same booking procedure as everybody else, and do not demand
double booking with groups they don't even like.
3.) The complaints the atheists are raising, if the facts as I
understand
them are even close to being accurate, serve only to enflame everybody
into
demanding that government stop letting anybody use the steps for
anything.
4.) Tthe steps belong to everybody, but everybody can't show up on the
same
day. The steps can and should be reasonably booked to one group at a
time.
If the first choice for your date is taken, get a different date. If you
were smart, you would book early ...
-- Regards, Curly
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http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com http://mp3.dubyaspeak.com/internets.mp3
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
01 May 2005 08:18:28 PM |
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:22:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.27.19.51.01.340617@curlysurmudgeon.com...
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:18:26 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
--------------snip--------------------
I guess I just don't get it.
THE FACTS (made simple)
There are steps
There is a sign up sheet to use the steps
A group has booked the steps
Another group booked the steps
The second group was denied on the basis the first group was already
booked
Perhaps this is your source of error. I believe that the self-professed
atheists were the first party to reserve the venue then were denied by
claiming that "previous groups come first" (paraphrased) even though they
hadn't signed up.
The rules are that reocurring events take precedence.
Not according to the article. Read for comprehension, not for what you
want the article to say.
-- Regards, Curly
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http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com http://mp3.dubyaspeak.com/internets.mp3
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
29 Apr 2005 09:04:18 AM |
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:43:58 -0500, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
"Dana" <anon@noneya.com> writes:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day.
No, it was taken by a reoccurring event.
Thanks for confirming Dave's point, which of course you deleted.
You lose again.
Do you always lie?
Is the Pope Catholic?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
27 Apr 2005 12:08:59 PM |
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"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue. We can't
go around second guessing the capacity of government's ability to accomodate
everybody. If there is a Sign Up Sheet, and the date and time are already
filled in, then the next group that comes along might not get in on that day
and time. Oh well.
We know the atheists were turned away because they complained, but we don't
know that the Boy Scouts were turned away because they have not complained.
You can replace Boy Scouts with any other group that has not complained that
the date and time were already taken, and we wouldn't know that they were
turned away, or that they were even interested in booking the steps that
day.
So under the current conditions I rather doubt an atheist could use the
state steps on any religious holiday.
Doubt if you want, or schedule your group for the next religious holiday
that the venue isn't already scheduled for and see what happens.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
29 Apr 2005 08:17:15 PM |
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue.
No it didn't. It said that the atheists were allowed to sign up, but when the
people in charge were made aware that the prayer day group would have wanted to
sign up, they reneged on the atheist group's reservation, arguing that the
prayer day was a "recurring event." There's only one problem there, which is
that there is no written rule they can point to which explains that a recurring
event gets first dibs. They just made it up.
We can't
go around second guessing the capacity of government's ability to accomodate
everybody. If there is a Sign Up Sheet, and the date and time are already
filled in, then the next group that comes along might not get in on that day
and time. Oh well.
Exactly. So, since the atheist group was the first to sign up, they should get
the slot.
Glenn Arnold
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
29 Apr 2005 10:01:32 PM |
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"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every year.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
30 Apr 2005 09:27:33 PM |
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Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every year.
Since you delete the argument you claim to refute I will simply paste it
again. Try telling the truth.
No it didn't. It said that the atheists were allowed to sign up, but when
the
people in charge were made aware that the prayer day group would have wanted
to
sign up, they reneged on the atheist group's reservation, arguing that the
prayer day was a "recurring event." There's only one problem there, which is
that there is no written rule they can point to which explains that a
recurring
event gets first dibs. They just made it up.
We can't
go around second guessing the capacity of government's ability to
accomodate
everybody. If there is a Sign Up Sheet, and the date and time are already
filled in, then the next group that comes along might not get in on that
day
and time. Oh well.
Exactly. So, since the atheist group was the first to sign up, they should
get
the slot.
Glenn Arnold
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
01 May 2005 01:28:37 AM |
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"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:42743E94.86CD17C3@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group
had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already
had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every year.
Since you delete the argument
The reoccurring event takes precedence, there is no argument.
The way the rules are, there is nothing you can say that will change the
fact that reoccurring events take precedence.
.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Dana says "La La La I'm not listening, so I don't have to argue withyou" |
01 May 2005 10:24:07 AM |
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Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:42743E94.86CD17C3@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious group
had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group already
had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every year.
Since you delete the argument
The reoccurring event takes precedence, there is no argument.
There was no written policy of precedence. They made it up.
The way the rules are, there is nothing you can say that will change the
fact that reoccurring events take precedence.
The way the rules are, there is nothing you can say that will change the fact
that the atheist group reserved the date, and was told after the fact that a
policy that was not written was suddenly invented in order to give preference
to a religious group that had not booked the date.
AND AGAIN:
Since you delete the argument you claim to refute I will simply paste it
again. Try telling the truth.
No it didn't. It said that the atheists were allowed to sign up, but when the
people in charge were made aware that the prayer day group would have wanted
to sign up, they reneged on the atheist group's reservation, arguing that the
prayer day was a "recurring event." There's only one problem there, which is
that there is no written rule they can point to which explains that a
recurring event gets first dibs. They just made it up.
We can't
go around second guessing the capacity of government's ability to
accomodate
everybody. If there is a Sign Up Sheet, and the date and time are already
filled in, then the next group that comes along might not get in on that
day
and time. Oh well.
Exactly. So, since the atheist group was the first to sign up, they should get
the slot.
Glenn Arnold
.
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| User: "Dana" |
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| Title: Re: Glenn Arnold says "La La La I'm not listening, so I don't have to argue with you" |
01 May 2005 03:27:25 PM |
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"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4274F496.47D2F41B@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:42743E94.86CD17C3@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious
group
had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group
already
had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the
venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every
year.
Since you delete the argument
The reoccurring event takes precedence, there is no argument.
There was no written policy of precedence. They made it up.
Liar.
The way the rules are, there is nothing you can say that will change the
fact that reoccurring events take precedence.
.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: Dana says "La La La I'm not listening, so I don't have to arguewith you" |
01 May 2005 07:03:43 PM |
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Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4274F496.47D2F41B@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:42743E94.86CD17C3@att.net...
Dana wrote:
"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:4272DC9A.46F82A20@att.net...
Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tspq7uqkrb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:jKednXEgadagQvPfRVn-gw@ez2.net...
"Dave Thompson" <abre@thedoor.com> wrote in message
news:116tklv7t0d18da@corp.supernews.com...
Then they need to reserve a different day.
Christmas or Easter would work.
If the calendar is open ...
It was open on national prayer day. If even one religious
group
had
applied
prior to the atheists, it would not have been.
That doesn't make sense Dave. The story said that a group
already
had
scheduled the steps before the atheist group asked for the
venue.
No it didn't.
It sure did. It mentioned the reocurring event that happens every
year.
Since you delete the argument
The reoccurring event takes precedence, there is no argument.
There was no written policy of precedence. They made it up.
Liar.
I'm not the one snipping your arguments. If you have an argument, pony it up.
But then, you can't, because you're a liar. And a childish one at that.
Glenn Arnold
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Glenn Arnold says "La La La I'm not listening, so I don't have to argue with you" |
01 May 2005 04:02:30 PM |
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On Sun, 1 May 2005 12:27:25 -0800, "Dana" <anon@noneya.com> wrote:
The way the rules are, there is nothing you can say that will change the
fact that reoccurring events take precedence.
Here's a recurring nightmare for you, Raffaniello
Admit it
You were REALLY stupid for sex ads on the Usenet, weren't you?
------------------------------------------------------
houston toilet for ladies
</groups?q=author:danaraffaniello%40worldnet.
att.net&start=210&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT>F-8&selm=63j
060%24j0j%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&rnum=225>
use me as your toilet. will be toilet for female parties.
can also be used as a rug, so you can walk on me.
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Dana says "La La La I'm not listening, so I don't have to argue with you" |
01 May 2005 12:48:29 PM |
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On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:24:07 -0400, Glenn Arnold wrote:
-------------snip-------------
No it didn't. It said that the atheists were allowed to sign up, but when the
people in charge were made aware that the prayer day group would have wanted
to sign up, they reneged on the atheist group's reservation, arguing that the
prayer day was a "recurring event." There's only one problem there, which is
that there is no written rule they can point to which explains that a
recurring event gets first dibs. They just made it up.
Thanks for keeping to topic and succinctly reporting the essence.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com http://mp3.dubyaspeak.com/internets.mp3
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
28 Apr 2005 12:06:11 PM |
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"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote:
:|Then they need to reserve a different day.
Anyone ever notice how jeffy is attracted to the fluff posts to reply to or
topics to post on.
He avoids those posts that require some level of knowledge, thinking
ability, etc.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
29 Apr 2005 06:19:44 PM |
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Now that we know you post "fluff" maybe we can all simply killfile you and
move on.
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:nr52711shvo4elhtb1b8vop0qergp6disr@4ax.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote:
:|Then they need to reserve a different day.
Anyone ever notice how jeffy is attracted to the fluff posts to reply to
or
topics to post on.
He avoids those posts that require some level of knowledge, thinking
ability, etc.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Idaho Atheists Denied Permit in Oklahoma-Type Scenario |
29 Apr 2005 10:56:06 AM |
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:06:11 -0400, wrote:
"Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote:
:|Then they need to reserve a different day.
Anyone ever notice how jeffy is attracted to the fluff posts to reply to or
topics to post on.
He avoids those posts that require some level of knowledge, thinking
ability, etc.
For obvious reasons.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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