However, do you relate reason in any
way with Him as far as man's abilities and responsibilities?

Hoo boy! You don't ask *easy* questions, do you? If I were to give that one
an easy answer it would be an indication of a lack of study.

With regard to this question and the ones following, I am going to make

statement: I am not completely satisfied with my own answers. Yet they are
the best I can do without ignoring pertinent areas of Scripture.

Generally speaking, reason is not an ability limited to man alone. Nor,
evidently, is prayer (Job 38:41). Other human traits such as pride and
foolishness are ascribed by God to other animals (Job 38-41).

So what about man's abilities and responsibilities with regard to reason?

Well, the Scripture commands people to love God with all their heart, soul,
and mind. The fact that the "heart" and "mind" are sometimes listed
separately doesn't mean they are different things. The Hebrews considered
them synonyms. (The brain meant nothing as to reasoning. All reasoning
functions to them occurred in the physical heart.)

God has *never* uses Scripture to communicate a new understanding of the
physical world. Rather, when He revealed Himself to men He used their
cultural references and talked to them in terms that they could understand.
But His emphasis has been upon *trust*, not reason.

In fact, Paul condemns human reasoning in 1 Corinthians 1. He expressly

in verses 20 and 21 "hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it

God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Or, as the
NET Bible puts it, "Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish? For
since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God

pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching."

In other words, Paul considers human reason absolutely worthless as
regarding faith.

Human abilities are downplayed. They are worse than
useless, since they may even prevent those who have them from coming to the
Lord. "For ye see your calling brethren, how that not many wise men after
the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen
the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; ... That no flesh
should glory in his presence" (I Cor. 1:26, 27a, 29).

Wisdom, according to the Bible is a *gift*. "If any man lack wisdom, let

ask of God, which giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not; and it
shall be given him" (James 1:5). But human reasoning might prevent the gift
from ever being given, for the considerations of the human mind as to
possibilities are considered not only dangerous, but unstable: "But let him
ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the
sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he
shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all
his ways." (James 1:6-8).

Wisdom is never earned (except perhaps as a reward of old age!). And human
reasoning is never recognized as worthwhile.

Any endeavor of the "flesh" is
considered rubbish (see Philippians 3), and "minding earthly things" makes
one an enemy of the cross of Christ (Philippians 3:17-20).

The Scribes and Pharisees (the scholars of Christ's day!) were held up in
such disrepute -- what castigation would academics today incur?

I have to admit that the Scriptures seem to devalue education and reason. I
tend to see reason as a good thing. I tend to see wisdom as principally
earned (although the ability to earn it might be entitled a "gift"). I know
that there are times I have prayed for wisdom and truly believed -- yet

what appears to me to be a bad decision. Scripture and experience do not
always mesh seamlessly.

And even Scripture itself has a double mind in this area. "My people are
destroyed for lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6) -- although this "knowledge"

principally limited to "the law of thy God". In the Exodus, knowledge of
metal-craft was valued. To fulfill God's will, Noah had to be a

Paul was himself a tentmaker, and the Scripture hints that he was

with the Sanhedrin, and so was a scholar. Paul encourages Timothy, "But
continue thou in the things which thou has learned and has been assured of,
knowing of whom thou has learned them" (2 Timothy 3:14), so learning itself
is not disapproved of. Proverbs encourages learning of a sort, as in "Hear,
ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding"
(4:1). But Solomon later calls wisdom and all learning "vanity and vexation
of the spirit" (Ecclesiastes 1:12-18). "For in much wisdom is much grief:
and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow" (1:18).

And while "wisdom" and "knowledge" are generally upheld as valuable,

is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. There is no mention of it. No
rules of logic are to be found anywhere in Scripture.

Exactly what are you saying concerning man and reason?

In the Scripture, "reason" is something that man does. The only time when
"reason" is used of God (KJV) is found in Isaiah 1:18, "Come now, let us
reason together, saith the Lord. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall
be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

But the use of this word does not mean that God is "being reasonable" --
rather that He is demanding of His people that they hear Him, His terms and
conditions. There is no debate, no give and take, and nothing more that God
takes away from the discourse.

So man "reasons" -- and generally speaking when men do this in the gospels
it is considered a *bad thing*. Jesus would say something, the disciples or
the people would reason within themselves as to what He was saying, and
Jesus would upbraid them for their lack of faith.

As an example, consider Daniel. The king wanted young people who were
"skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding

and ... had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they
might teach the learning and tongue of the Chaldeans." (Daniel 1:4). Yet it
was none of that that gave Daniel and advantage. It was Daniel's submission
to God. God delighted in frustrating the chaldeans and Daniel upheld as

wisdom the revelation God gave (Daniel 2).

But I am myself a reasoning creature. I am an academic -- a professor of
mathematics. I *do* reason. And I *do* think for myself.

I have to say that there is a distinct difference between logic and the
"reasoning" or "worldly wisdom" that was condemned by Scripture. The
ancients had no formal study of science, and did not see the physical world
so much as cause and effect as much as they saw within each physical
phenomena a direct action of God. If they did not accept the Law of Moses,
they would likely turn to the pagan religions which had their fatal flaws
(including the worship of false gods). Science and logic today are used by
people of all kinds of religious persuasion, and do not require worship of
any kind for being used.

In your opinion, is the gospel
irrational with a requirement of a "leap of faith?"

Well, look at what Paul says about it in 1 Corinthians. Does the idea of

providing a propitiatory Sacrifice to Himself on our behalf with His own

seem like a "rational" idea? Not at all.

There is really very little to
compare it to, at least in our experience. For God to demand of us a
sacrifice to appease Him had historical relevance, not only to Judaism but
also within the cultures round about (although sacrifices were made for
other reasons as well!). Not to mention the idea that payment for a
transgression requires something from the transgressor. But for the Son of
God to give Himself for me?

That is a leap of faith. Rationality cannot describe it or explain it.

Now I myself do not see logic as inimical to faith, nor do I see reasoning
as wrong.

But then, I think that the Scriptures' condemnation of reasoning or logic
has nothing to do with the world in general, but in the ability to know God
and His Will. It would make no sense for God to give us such an ability if
it were wrong to use it. And obviously, in helping us make sense and use of
this world ("subdue the earth", Genesis 1:28), it has been essential.

As I said, I am not entirely satisfied with my own answer. Have you any
comments or other perspectives to place on the Scripture I referenced? Your
comments would be welcome.

Maybe these can get us
started.

"Started" the man says! Whew! You asked a big one for a "starter"! (Hmmm.

thought just occurred to me. Might I enquire? Are you a man or woman? It
makes no difference as to how I will answer, but it might keep me from
making gender gaffes.)

Anyway, I have many things I would like to kick around with you in
this arena, however, I'm pressed for time right now.

As am I. But I count this time as valuable study.

Looking forward to
hearing from you and I pray this letter finds you and your family doing
well.....Terry

I am waiting for my wife, my daughter and my number two son to arrive safe
at home from a weekend trip they took to visit relatives. My other two sons
are here with me, doing well. There was something of a "winter storm" --

not so much in our area, and we had the opportunity to put up some storm
windows this weekend while the others were gone.

May you and your family do well.

Regards,

Raymond E. Griffith

At least, not in any form that we would recognize. You notice that God
doesn't "think about it" -- at least after, say, I Kings 22:18-23, where we
have the unprecedented (and only) vision of a "heavenly council" in which
the Lord solicits opinions about how to accomplish a task. God simply
"knows". He "works all things after the counsel of his own will" (Ephesians
1:11). And from Romans 11:33-36 we are told

God has *never* uses Scripture to communicate a new understanding of the
physical world. Rather, when He revealed Himself to men He used their
cultural references and talked to them in terms that they could understand.
But His emphasis has been upon *trust*, not reason.

In fact, Paul condemns human reasoning in 1 Corinthians 1. He expressly says
in verses 20 and 21 "hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For
after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased
God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Or, as the
NET Bible puts it, "Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish? For
since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was
pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching."

In other words, Paul considers human reason absolutely worthless as
regarding faith. Human abilities are downplayed. They are worse than
useless, since they may even prevent those who have them from coming to the
Lord.