Religions > Atheism > IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill McGinnis" |
| Date: |
30 Nov 2003 11:01:21 PM |
| Object: |
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
The underlying question: Is it unconstitutional for the government
to promote "Theism," by using such phrases as, "In God we trust," and
"God bless America," and by praying to God as part of a government
function?
Note to Journalists: This is a hot subject, coming up soon
for Supreme Court attention, many think. I'm not simply
grinding some dull religious axe. These are some of the arguments
we will be hearing, I expect. Culture wars, big-time.
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
by Bill McGinnis, Public Domain
Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God. Please see
http://essaysandcommentaries.com/thereligionofatheism.txt and also my
newsgroups post entitled "ESTABLISHING THE RELIGION OF ATHEISM."
As expected, the hard-core Atheists objected venomously, with their
typical ad hominem attacks, such as "you Moron,"(cobalt@newscene.com), and
"how utterly full of sh*t you are," (nunya@bizniz.net), and "Frickin'
moron," (dev@null.none).
Okay. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that Atheism is not a
religion. What then? What is it? How would you try to define it? If it is
not a religion, then what is it? Maybe it's a philosophy! Okay . . . But
if Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, then Theism must also be a
philosophy, not a religion, by whatever definitions of "philosophy" and
"religion" you choose to use. And if Atheism and Theism are both
philosophies, then neither is a religion, and there is no basis for
pretending that Theism is un-Constitutional.
So we see that . . .
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH RELIGIONS, THEN ATHEISM AND THEISM BOTH
MUST BE SUPPRESSED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST AS CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, AND
ISLAM ARE SUPPRESSED. THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT TEACH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION
AS FACT, BECAUSE THAT IS ESTABLISHING ATHEISM AS THE STATE RELIGION.
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH PHILOSOPHIES, THEN NEITHER ONE IS A
RELIGION, AND THEISM CAN BE FREELY EXPRESSED: THAT IS, MENTIONING GOD IN
ANY PUBLIC PLACE IS PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TEND
TO "ESTABLISH" ANY PARTICULAR GOD-BASED RELIGION, SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY,
JUDAISM, OR ISLAM.
SO "GOD BLESS AMERICA," "IN GOD WE TRUST," AND PRAYING TO GOD IN PUBLIC
ARE ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Blessings to you in the name of the One God, Who created all things.
Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director
http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://PracticalDemocracy.org
. . . and related websites listed at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/chapellinks.html
.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
30 Nov 2003 11:21:16 PM |
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<snipped the post>
Why cant you understand a really simple concept ?
Theism is a belief in a deity
Atheism is the opposite of this..i.e no belief in a deity
how can two opposing views be defined as the same ?
how can no belief in a deity be a religion ?
i *dont* worship anything ...do you understand this ??
In your post you draw a false analogy...then use this false analogy to prove
your point.. uh-oh,.... bahhhh...sorry you dont win a prize..
and you shouldnt type in caps.... it doesnt make your illogical post anymore
appealing.
steve
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
30 Nov 2003 11:32:17 PM |
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"Bill McGinnis" <bmcgin@adams.patriot.net> wrote
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS
NOT A RELIGION
Atheism isn't a religion and theism is a religion. Period.
As compelling as you may find your use of the cap-lock, I'm
afraid that you simply haven't the power to re-order the
universe to suit your agenda.
You're welcome.
.
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| User: "Ron Baker" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 12:20:35 AM |
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"Bill McGinnis" <bmcgin@adams.patriot.net> wrote in message
news:vslip16alnc198@corp.supernews.com...
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
That is false. Religion/theism is a belief in god or the supernatural.
Atheism includes no belief in anything supernatural.
Atheism is not a religion.
The underlying question: Is it unconstitutional for the government
to promote "Theism," by using such phrases as, "In God we trust," and
"God bless America," and by praying to God as part of a government
function?
The answer is that it is unconsititutional because it endorses
one, or a category, of religious beliefs over other religious
beliefs.
Are Buddhists and Hindus accepted as US Americans?
If so then "In God we trust" is not true for all US Americans.
It is certainly no more true than "In Vishnu we trust".
If we allow "In God we trust" to be printed on the currency
then "In Vishnu we trust" should be printed on the currency.
If you argue that the majority of Americans are Christian
then I will argue that the proportion of bill printed
with "In God we trust" should be no greater than the
proportion of Christians in the US.
Note to Journalists:
They don't come here.
This is a hot subject, coming up soon
for Supreme Court attention, many think. I'm not simply
grinding some dull religious axe. These are some of the arguments
we will be hearing, I expect. Culture wars, big-time.
Small time.
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
by Bill McGinnis, Public Domain
Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God. Please see
http://essaysandcommentaries.com/thereligionofatheism.txt and also my
newsgroups post entitled "ESTABLISHING THE RELIGION OF ATHEISM."
As expected, the hard-core Atheists objected venomously, with their
typical ad hominem attacks, such as "you Moron,"(cobalt@newscene.com), and
"how utterly full of sh*t you are," (nunya@bizniz.net), and "Frickin'
moron," (dev@null.none).
Wellcome to the public forum.
(And don't stereotype.)
Okay. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that Atheism is not a
religion. What then? What is it? How would you try to define it? If it is
not a religion, then what is it? Maybe it's a philosophy! Okay . . . But
if Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, then Theism must also be a
philosophy, not a religion, by whatever definitions of "philosophy" and
"religion" you choose to use. And if Atheism and Theism are both
philosophies, then neither is a religion, and there is no basis for
pretending that Theism is un-Constitutional.
From Merriam-Webster Online:
"Religion: the service and worship of God or the supernatural"
Atheism is not a religion.
So we see that . . .
No.
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH RELIGIONS, THEN ATHEISM AND THEISM BOTH
MUST BE SUPPRESSED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST AS CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, AND
They are not suppressed. They may not be established by the government.
ISLAM ARE SUPPRESSED. THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT TEACH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION
AS FACT, BECAUSE THAT IS ESTABLISHING ATHEISM AS THE STATE RELIGION.
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH PHILOSOPHIES, THEN NEITHER ONE IS A
RELIGION, AND THEISM CAN BE FREELY EXPRESSED: THAT IS, MENTIONING GOD IN
ANY PUBLIC PLACE IS PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TEND
TO "ESTABLISH" ANY PARTICULAR GOD-BASED RELIGION, SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY,
JUDAISM, OR ISLAM.
SO "GOD BLESS AMERICA," "IN GOD WE TRUST," AND PRAYING TO GOD IN PUBLIC
ARE ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Constitutional, for an individual to express.
Blessings to you in the name of the One God, Who created all things.
Bless somebody who needs it.
.
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 03:27:07 PM |
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2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
Hope this helps :-)
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 03:30:37 PM |
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"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 04:04:09 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all things? If
not, is that disbelief a religion?
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 04:49:55 PM |
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all things?
No, do you?
.
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 05:13:27 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:nAPyb.386856$Fm2.398155@attbi_s04...
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all things?
No, do you?
No, is that disbelief a religion? You clipped that part! Is not believing
Bart Simpson is real and the creator anymore a religion than not believing
God is real and the creator?
.
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 05:34:15 PM |
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:rWPyb.29565$eZ4.221@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all
things?
No, do you?
No, is that disbelief a religion?
Yes, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God. Thus Atheism is
itself a religion, since it has NO scientific basis for believing God "does
not exist". In other words, Atheists operate PURELY on the basis of their
faith belief that God "does not exist".
Atheism is a faith belief and it is a religion to boot.
.
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 05:46:30 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:XdQyb.381443$HS4.3133902@attbi_s01...
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:rWPyb.29565$eZ4.221@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A
RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all
things?
No, do you?
No, is that disbelief a religion?
Yes, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God.
LOL, so not believing Bart Simpson is real and the creator is a religion?
Not believing in invisible purple dinosaurs that control everything isn't a
religion either!
Thus Atheism is
itself a religion, since it has NO scientific basis for believing God
"does
not exist".
And you're proof that invisible purple dinosaurs don't really exist? LOL, I
thought religion was based on faith, not proof! Can you prove
scientifically that God exists?
In other words, Atheists operate PURELY on the basis of their
faith belief that God "does not exist".
Atheism is a faith belief and it is a religion to boot.
Then Abartism is a religion then! BS!
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 06:13:03 PM |
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:qpQyb.29664$5w5.16378@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:XdQyb.381443$HS4.3133902@attbi_s01...
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A
RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all
things?
No, do you?
No, is that disbelief a religion?
Yes, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God.
LOL, so not believing Bart Simpson is real and the creator is a religion?
No, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God. Atheism isn't a faith
belief in Bart Simpson, you see. Rather, Atheism is a faith belief that God
"doesn't exist".
.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 07:46:07 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jOQyb.385096$Tr4.1123961@attbi_s03...
:
: "qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
: news:qpQyb.29664$5w5.16378@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
: >
: > "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
: > news:XdQyb.381443$HS4.3133902@attbi_s01...
: > >
: > > "qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
: > > news:rWPyb.29565$eZ4.221@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
: > > >
: > > > "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
: > > > news:nAPyb.386856$Fm2.398155@attbi_s04...
: > > > >
: > > > > "qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
: > > > > news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
: > > > > >
: > > > > > "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
: > > > > > news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
: > > > > > >
: > > > > > > "Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > > > > > > news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
: > > > > > > > 2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
: > > > > > > >
: > > > > > > > >
: > > > > > > > >
: > > > > > > > > IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A
: > RELIGION
: > > > > > > >
: > > > > > > >
: > > > > > > > You're wrong.
: > > > > > >
: > > > > > >
: > > > > > > No, he's correct.
: > > > > >
: > > > > > Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all
: > > things?
: > > > >
: > > > >
: > > > > No, do you?
: > > >
: > > > No, is that disbelief a religion?
: > >
: > >
: > > Yes, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God.
: >
: > LOL, so not believing Bart Simpson is real and the creator is a
religion?
:
:
: No, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God. Atheism isn't a
faith
: belief in Bart Simpson, you see. Rather, Atheism is a faith belief that
God
: "doesn't exist".
:
Your semantic gymnastics do nothing for your case BW
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
steve
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 08:31:30 PM |
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"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your part.
.
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 04:04:30 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6QSyb.386930$Tr4.1131306@attbi_s03...
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your part.
So not believing in invisible purple dinosaurs is a religion?
.
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 11:12:23 AM |
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2003-12-02, 03:31:30 AM, BW wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have no faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on
your part.
Wow, are we still at this stage? It seems like we have to tell
fundamentalists over and over again what it means to be an athiest. And
still, they refuse to understand, or, more likely perhaps, they are
simply unable to understand.
.
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| User: "Undisclosed Recipients" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 01:57:10 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:12:23 GMT,
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wow, are we still at this stage? It seems like we have to tell
fundamentalists over and over again what it means to be an athiest. And
still, they refuse to understand, or, more likely perhaps, they are
simply unable to understand.
To some extent, for some xians, this is the case. Hearkening back to my own
days of indoctrinatedness, I recall official and unofficial teachings to the
effect that every human absorbs knowledge of [the existence of] the xian god
through natural channels, regardless whether anybody evangelistical has
wandered by to bestow the Pure-D Gayronteed Complete Truth.
Therefore, there are only two possible states: active belief in the xian god,
or active denial of the xian god. Both of these states, obviously, are
"religious belief systems".
Reading tonnes recent "atheism is a faith/religion/belief system"
offscourings, I find quite a few of them that appear to be instructed by this
worldview.
mdr--
The hits just keep on coming for poor "Nadine". See the sad tale
of email lists gone horribly wrong at <http://www.honet.com/Nadine/>
F - IW AA #2157 GEVNP
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 03:00:39 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:57:10 -0600, Undisclosed Recipients
<UBETrawler@operamail.com> wrote:
In alt.atheism on Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:12:23 GMT,
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wow, are we still at this stage? It seems like we have to tell
fundamentalists over and over again what it means to be an athiest. And
still, they refuse to understand, or, more likely perhaps, they are
simply unable to understand.
To some extent, for some xians, this is the case. Hearkening back to my own
days of indoctrinatedness, I recall official and unofficial teachings to the
effect that every human absorbs knowledge of [the existence of] the xian god
through natural channels, regardless whether anybody evangelistical has
wandered by to bestow the Pure-D Gayronteed Complete Truth.
Therefore, there are only two possible states: active belief in the xian god,
or active denial of the xian god. Both of these states, obviously, are
"religious belief systems".
Reading tonnes recent "atheism is a faith/religion/belief system"
offscourings, I find quite a few of them that appear to be instructed by this
worldview.
But did you get nasty and insist that you knew better than them what
their position "really" was?
That's the worst part of it - it has destroyed any capacity they migt
once have had, for treating people like people.
.
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| User: "Undisclosed Recipients" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 04:42:45 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:00:39 GMT,
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
But did you get nasty and insist that you knew better than them what
their position "really" was?
That's the worst part of it - it has destroyed any capacity they migt
once have had, for treating people like people.
Indeed. That has long been my operational definition of "fanatic": someone
to whom ideas are more important than other people.
Perhaps that's why I had no long-time success as a fanatic myself.
mdr
--
The hits just keep on coming for poor "Nadine". See the sad tale
of email lists gone horribly wrong at <http://www.honet.com/Nadine/>
F - IW AA #2157 GEVNP
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| User: "sid9" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 04:00:00 AM |
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Let's say there are a number of different kind of hamburgers.
a hamburger
a cheeseburger
a chili burger
an Episcopalian burger
a Presbyterian burger
a catholic hamburger
a Muslim burger
and some thing we call not a burger at all.
an atheist burger (not a burger at all)
it might be a cat.
it might be a two by four
in fact it can be anything BUT a burger.
so in fact it's "not a" burger.....
here's how I would represent (logically) a "not a burger" burger.
______
burger
Now substitute the word "religion" where ever I've used "burger"
i.e.: a catholic religion
or "it's not a religion at all"
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:99vpsvghav7uamuvrfb03grm3947r625kb@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:57:10 -0600, Undisclosed Recipients
<UBETrawler@operamail.com> wrote:
In alt.atheism on Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:12:23 GMT,
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wow, are we still at this stage? It seems like we have to tell
fundamentalists over and over again what it means to be an athiest. And
still, they refuse to understand, or, more likely perhaps, they are
simply unable to understand.
To some extent, for some xians, this is the case. Hearkening back to my
own
days of indoctrinatedness, I recall official and unofficial teachings to
the
effect that every human absorbs knowledge of [the existence of] the xian
god
through natural channels, regardless whether anybody evangelistical has
wandered by to bestow the Pure-D Gayronteed Complete Truth.
Therefore, there are only two possible states: active belief in the xian
god,
or active denial of the xian god. Both of these states, obviously, are
"religious belief systems".
Reading tonnes recent "atheism is a faith/religion/belief system"
offscourings, I find quite a few of them that appear to be instructed by
this
worldview.
But did you get nasty and insist that you knew better than them what
their position "really" was?
That's the worst part of it - it has destroyed any capacity they migt
once have had, for treating people like people.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 10:44:28 AM |
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In article <6QSyb.386930$Tr4.1131306@attbi_s03>, BW says...
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist".
Wrong - What makes you think you can speak for atheists?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 08:36:02 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:31:30 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your part.
Hey, *****, what do you imagine qualifies you to tell us what our
own point of view is?
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 08:54:22 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ojunsvs9ftmip285nqa60camkj3asp0kp6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:31:30 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your
part.
Hey, *****, what do you imagine qualifies you to tell us what our
own point of view is?
Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion (in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 04:04:25 PM |
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"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:y9Tyb.190060$Dw6.723670@attbi_s02...
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ojunsvs9ftmip285nqa60camkj3asp0kp6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:31:30 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can
you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your
part.
Hey, *****, what do you imagine qualifies you to tell us what our
own point of view is?
Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion
(in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
Do you believe that invisible purple dinosaurs exist?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 10:34:32 AM |
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In article <y9Tyb.190060$Dw6.723670@attbi_s02>, BW says...
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ojunsvs9ftmip285nqa60camkj3asp0kp6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:31:30 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith
belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on your
part.
Hey, *****, what do you imagine qualifies you to tell us what our
own point of view is?
Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion (in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
Wow - Who pissed in your Cheerios, *****?
I do not believe in god(s). End of story.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 01:20:46 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:54:22 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ojunsvs9ftmip285nqa60camkj3asp0kp6@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:31:30 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
"Steve" <dontbother@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqgqvr$7oh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have faith in something..i have *no* faith whatsoever..how can you
possibly twist that into a religion ??
Easy. You have faith that God "doesn't exist". You can't PROVE that
faith belief of yours of course, which is why it is a faith belief on
your part.
Hey, *****, what do you imagine qualifies you to tell us what our
own point of view is?
Couldn't answer the question, eh?
What "faith that God 'doesn't exist'", liar?
Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion (in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
Why do you certifiable lunatics imagine that the world revolves around
your religious beliefs?
"God" is merely your wacky belief. As such there is nothing to
"believe doesn't exist".
Was that clear enough even for you, you pathetic, in-your-face, nasty
stupid, typical, lying Christian?
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| User: "ArWeGod" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 02:33:49 AM |
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Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion
(in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such
as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
Why do you certifiable lunatics imagine that the world revolves around
your religious beliefs?
"God" is merely your wacky belief. As such there is nothing to
"believe doesn't exist".
Was that clear enough even for you, you pathetic, in-your-face, nasty
stupid, typical, lying Christian?
OK. So shall we all just agree to disagree? I think you're pretty much run
the old "IS! - Is NOT!" argument into the ground.
Boooooring!
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 05:06:59 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:33:49 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Hey Atheist *****-for-brains, do you believe God exists, or do you believe
God does not exist, or do you instead believe you don't have an opinion
(in
which case you can't be an Atheist, since you don't even have an opinion
concerning the existence of God)? Or are Atheist *****-for-brains such
as
yourself too stupid to even KNOW what your own point of view is?
Why do you certifiable lunatics imagine that the world revolves around
your religious beliefs?
"God" is merely your wacky belief. As such there is nothing to
"believe doesn't exist".
Was that clear enough even for you, you pathetic, in-your-face, nasty
stupid, typical, lying Christian?
OK. So shall we all just agree to disagree? I think you're pretty much run
the old "IS! - Is NOT!" argument into the ground.
Boooooring!
Hardly an "IS! - Is NOT!" argument.
Just an arroganly nasty person telling us our position and getting it
wrong, insisting that we're not telling the truth about ourselves when
we correct him..
What is boring is the in-our-face rudeness of an ***** who imagines
he gets to tell us what our position is.
The *O*N*L*Y* compromise is that we will stop treating him as the
in-our-face nasty liar he shows himself to be, when he accepts that
our position actually iswhat we describe,
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 11:28:19 PM |
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2003-12-02, 01:13:03 AM, BW wrote:
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:qpQyb.29664$5w5.16378@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:XdQyb.381443$HS4.3133902@attbi_s01...
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:rWPyb.29565$eZ4.221@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:nAPyb.386856$Fm2.398155@attbi_s04...
"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:tVOyb.29046$004.18825@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
"BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1qOyb.274257$9E1.1428085@attbi_s52...
"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LmOyb.6689$uv1.4890@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-12-01, 06:01:21 AM, Bill McGinnis wrote:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A
RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of
all
things?
No, do you?
No, is that disbelief a religion?
Yes, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God.
LOL, so not believing Bart Simpson is real and the creator is a
religion?
No, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God. Atheism isn't
a faith belief in Bart Simpson, you see. Rather, Atheism is a faith
belief that God "doesn't exist".
Hm, I didn't expect to find this "discussion" the next morning. After
all, we atheists know that atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods
(although if Bart did exist the commandments would be funny, something
like "Thou shalt eat my shorts" and similar). I would love if you could
tell us why there are still so many people who believe that atheism is
faith and a religion when it's not. What is your argument? None? How
surprising.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
02 Dec 2003 11:15:49 AM |
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In article <jOQyb.385096$Tr4.1123961@attbi_s03>, BW says...
snip
No, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God.
Wrong.
Atheism isn't a faith
belief in Bart Simpson, you see. Rather, Atheism is a faith belief that God
"doesn't exist".
Wrong. Why are you speaking for atheists?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION |
01 Dec 2003 08:19:19 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:13:03 GMT, "BW" <bw4@verizon.net> wrote:
No, because Atheism is specifically disbelief in God. Atheism isn't a faith
belief in Bart Simpson, you see. Rather, Atheism is a faith belief that God
"doesn't exist".
No, moron, it is no different than not believing in Santa Claus.
What is it with you guys that you imagine you get to tell us what our
own position is, and when we correct you, you tell us that we're not
telling the truth about ourselves?
Are you a mind reader?
I thought not.
SO HAVE THE COURTESY TO GRANT THAT WE MOIGHT ACTUALY KNOW WHAT OUR OWN
POSITION IS.
Why are so many of you, so in-your-face nasty?
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