| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"spakka" |
| Date: |
03 Mar 2004 07:01:28 AM |
| Object: |
If Jesus died for my sins |
Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
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| User: "VTM Malkavian" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
03 Mar 2004 07:19:22 PM |
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(spakka) wrote:
Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
I throw this one up to Xtians all the time. If Jizzus died to clense me of my
sins, why do I still have to be as sinless as possible to get into Heaven? And
if I'm still ultimately responsible for my salvation (at this point they'll go
off on a rant about how it's God that ultimately decides my fate, trying to
distract me), then what was the point of his death?
Atheist #2375, and God am I proud!
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| User: "Newton Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
03 Mar 2004 09:10:44 PM |
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I think the word sin is a poor choice of words. I think the word crime would
be more suitable. As IF one could pay for anthers crime
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 04:42:58 AM |
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On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka) wrote:
Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation to the
soul of mankind.
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls him to
safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
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| User: "the cutest atheist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 05:20:35 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka) wrote:
Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation to
the
soul of mankind.
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to
safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
he is if god's got his back....right?
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 08:29:34 AM |
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In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka) wrote:
->
-> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
->
-> That's an easy one.
->
-> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation to
-the
-> soul of mankind.
->
-> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
-him to
-> safety, he is saved. Right?
->
-> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-
-he is if god's got his back....right?
Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34050
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "the cutest atheist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 05:45:58 PM |
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"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503040843420001@h-68-164-6-204.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka)
wrote:
->
-> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
->
-> That's an easy one.
->
-> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation
to
-the
-> soul of mankind.
->
-> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and
pulls
-him to
-> safety, he is saved. Right?
->
-> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-
-he is if god's got his back....right?
Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're going
to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
exist). there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free will
discussions are a bit over your head
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 07:25:00 PM |
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In article <Wi82c.88865$Wa.7097@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503040843420001@h-68-164-6-204.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
-> atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
->
-> -"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-> -news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> -> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka)
-wrote:
-> ->
-> -> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> -> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
-> ->
-> -> That's an easy one.
-> ->
-> -> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation
-to
-> -the
-> -> soul of mankind.
-> ->
-> -> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and
-pulls
-> -him to
-> -> safety, he is saved. Right?
-> ->
-> -> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-> -
-> -he is if god's got his back....right?
->
-> Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
-
-I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
It is...
Jowever, if you don't want it, it won't be forced on you.
-
-anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're going
-to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
-exist). there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free will
-discussions are a bit over your head
Sheesh, what did I do to you to deserbe that personal insult/ remark?
U guess there really is no point in me discussing what ~I~ believe...you
have already decided/prejudged ME...which except for your inability to
strike me different from the "god" you imagine I believe in.
Oh well....
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34050
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "the cutest atheist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 08:01:14 PM |
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"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503041939090001@h-68-164-230-177.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <Wi82c.88865$Wa.7097@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503040843420001@h-68-164-6-204.chcgilgm.dyna
mic.covad.net...
-> In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the
cutest
-> atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
->
-> -"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-> -news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> -> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka)
-wrote:
-> ->
-> -> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> -> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
-> ->
-> -> That's an easy one.
-> ->
-> -> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return
salvation
-to
-> -the
-> -> soul of mankind.
-> ->
-> -> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and
-pulls
-> -him to
-> -> safety, he is saved. Right?
-> ->
-> -> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-> -
-> -he is if god's got his back....right?
->
-> Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
-
-I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
It is...
Jowever, if you don't want it, it won't be forced on you.
er, know the meaning of unconditional?? it means he/she/it/they wouldn't
send someone to a fiery den-o-torture for non-belief or questioning the
beliefs of others. not even for blasphemy, the supposed unforgivable sin
(god is a ***** - I can't be forgiven, you see)
-
-anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're
going
-to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
-exist). there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free
will
-discussions are a bit over your head
Sheesh, what did I do to you to deserbe that personal insult/ remark?
you're a christian. you perpetuate nonsense and misery
U guess there really is no point in me discussing what ~I~ believe...
not really, since I don't give a *****
you
have already decided/prejudged ME...which except for your inability to
strike me different from the "god" you imagine I believe in.
I know the difference between god and theists - the latter exist. though why
they exist in this day and age is beyond me. I guess some people only like
reading one book, even when there's billions to choose from. I can't respect
christianity or any of the jewish offshoot religions, or their
practitioners. and other theistic religions are pretty ridiculous too
Oh well....
yeah, never mind. go on and waste your life on your knees bowing and
scraping to invisible sky pixies and their made-up offspring. I'll go do the
humanist thing and help others
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 10:19:08 AM |
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In article <Kha2c.89104$Wa.12047@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503041939090001@h-68-164-230-177.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> In article <Wi82c.88865$Wa.7097@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
-> atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503040843420001@h-68-164-6-204.chcgilgm.dyna
-mic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the
-cutest
-> -> atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-> -> -news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> -> -> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka)
-> -wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> -> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> -> -> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
-> -> ->
-> -> -> That's an easy one.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return
-salvation
-> -to
-> -> -the
-> -> -> soul of mankind.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and
-> -pulls
-> -> -him to
-> -> -> safety, he is saved. Right?
-> -> ->
-> -> -> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-> -> -
-> -> -he is if god's got his back....right?
-> ->
-> -> Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
-> -
-> -I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
->
-> It is...
->
->
-> however, if you don't want it, it won't be forced on you.
-
-er, know the meaning of unconditional?? it means he/she/it/they wouldn't
-send someone to a fiery den-o-torture for non-belief or questioning the
-beliefs of others. not even for blasphemy, the supposed unforgivable sin
-(god is a ***** - I can't be forgiven, you see)
Actually, I don't believe in Hell, or eterna; torment, or any of that
other stuff.
I also do not believe that God "sends" people anywhere.
But of course, you didn't botehr to ask me what I believe, did you?
You're wiling to throw me on yur contempt pike based on what?
Do you have any idea how much you resemble this "god" you ~think~ I believe in?
-
-> -
-> -anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're
-going
-> -to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
-> -exist). there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free
-will
-> -discussions are a bit over your head
->
->
-> Sheesh, what did I do to you to deserve that personal insult/ remark?
-
-you're a christian. you perpetuate nonsense and misery
And you are obviously a bigot.
-
->
-> I guess there really is no point in me discussing what ~I~ believe...
-
-not really, since I don't give a *****
Than why are you bithering to respond to any post from anyone?
-
-you
-> have already decided/prejudged ME...which except for your inability to
-> strike me different from the "god" you imagine I believe in.
-
-I know the difference between god and theists - the latter exist. though why
-they exist in this day and age is beyond me. I guess some people only like
-reading one book, even when there's billions to choose from. I can't respect
-christianity or any of the jewish offshoot religions, or their
-practitioners. and other theistic religions are pretty ridiculous too
-
Yet you expect others to respect you....
-> Oh well....
-
-yeah, never mind. go on and waste your life on your knees bowing and
-scraping to invisible sky pixies and their made-up offspring. I'll go do the
-humanist thing and help others
Sagan, what a self-righteous, arrogant little sentient you are!!
You have no clue, not what iota what ~I~ have or have not done, or what I
do now. I was helping others while you were no diubt still in diapers.
You are no different, to judge ny your posts, than the KKK or Jerry
Falwell..or the worst homphobe on the planet...pnly your target of hate is
different.
That really, really is sad..
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34050
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "Jim Warren" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 09:02:23 PM |
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Sinning before you are born is like getting a traffic ticket before
you can drive.
Which probably makes sense to fundies.
-- Remove word virus from return address
Need new signature old one not good.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 05:17:27 PM |
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THEN he is dead, and you can sin all you wish.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 01:20:34 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:45:58 GMT, "the cutest atheist"
<herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0503040843420001@h-68-164-6-204.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <7oZ1c.88167$Wa.67245@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "the cutest
atheist" <herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
-"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
-news:g8mg40d4epsb6o73jh0jenv9o2fuep3p9o@4ax.com...
-> On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka)
wrote:
->
-> >Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
-> >sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
->
-> That's an easy one.
->
-> He did it redeem you for original and past sin and to return salvation
to
-the
-> soul of mankind.
->
-> If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and
pulls
-him to
-> safety, he is saved. Right?
->
-> If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
-
-he is if god's got his back....right?
Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're going
to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
exist). there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free will
discussions are a bit over your head
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
.
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| User: "Lee Dimas" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 04:44:17 PM |
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In article <k29k40161r1pskc3jvug4gboe7chdkl1tv@4ax.com>,
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
That number is under 96% if you count just the pedophiles. Add in other
non-good priest behavior and the percentage drops even lower. Apparently
that Jesus Redemption stuff ain't workin' too well.
Lee Dimas
aa#11101111001
Surely you can figure out my address.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 05:34:17 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:44:17 -0700, Lee Dimas <lddiimmaass@qwest.net> wrote:
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
That number is under 96% if you count just the pedophiles.
That number may be uner 99% if you count the accused but not yet found guilty.
Add in other
non-good priest behavior and the percentage drops even lower.
What is non-good priest behavior. Is a priest not a man first?
Apparently
that Jesus Redemption stuff ain't workin' too well.
How do you know, when Christianity says yes.
duke-
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 01:23:08 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:45:58 GMT, "the cutest atheist"
<herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
Not if the man pushes his rescuer away and tells him to get lost....
I thought goddywoddy's loveywovey was unconditional?
And if you want nothing to do with God, he grants your your wish........for all
eterntiy.
anyway, if he's omnipotent and he is your creator, he knows how you're going
to react to the nonsense of the christian god (which absolutely cannot
exist).
Why not?
there is no free will in that case. anyway, I'm guessing free will
discussions are a bit over your head
Free will is everything. You have the opportunity to choose God or reject God,
and it has eternal consequences.
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 06:54:22 AM |
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:20:35 GMT, "the cutest atheist"
<herdofnerd(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote:
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to
safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
he is if god's got his back....right?
If he doesn't want to be saved, does God have his back?
.
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
05 Mar 2004 12:39:08 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:42:58 -0600, duke wrote:
On 3 Mar 2004 05:01:28 -0800, (spakka) wrote:
Why do I still have to be good? Was there something wrong with the
sacrifice? Perhaps he fucked it up by whimpering (e.g Mark 15:34).
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original
That's my share of the blame for Adam & Eve eating the fruit of
the Tree of Knowledge on the advice of the talking snake with legs?
You believe in the literal truth of this story?
and past sin
If I'm reading you correctly, this would be sin committed by me
until a certain time in my life, but not other sins committed by
me after that time. What is this cut-off point? Recall that I was
not alive at the time of the alleged crucifixion.
and to return salvation to the
soul of mankind.
Diversionary babble.
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
Yes and no respectively.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 07:07:31 AM |
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:39:08 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original
That's my share of the blame for Adam & Eve eating the fruit of
the Tree of Knowledge on the advice of the talking snake with legs?
You believe in the literal truth of this story?
No, not really.
and past sin
If I'm reading you correctly, this would be sin committed by me
until a certain time in my life, but not other sins committed by
me after that time.
Original sin is somehting you inherit as a part of mankind. Simply put, it's
our nature to sin, to put one's self before others.
James 2
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?
Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and
daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and
well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the
same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
What is this cut-off point? Recall that I was
not alive at the time of the alleged crucifixion.
You original sin and your actual past sins were redeemed by the crucifixion of
Christ at the point you became a Christian and then acheived the age of reason
for knowing good vs bad, right vs wrong. A child does not posses these advanced
features.
and to return salvation to the
soul of mankind.
Diversionary babble.
Just over your head. You see, our sin nature (reflected in the A&E accounting)
separates us from God - there is no salvation from sin. The Jewish faith did
nothing to relieve this problem. Then we tack on actual sin. But Christ did
something to redeem us. By our acceptance of him, repenting of our actual sins,
and following him in service to mankind, we reinherit salvation of souls
(eternal love of God).
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
Yes and no respectively.
Why no? You said it, now support it.
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 04:49:02 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:07:31 -0600, duke wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:39:08 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original
That's my share of the blame for Adam & Eve eating the fruit of
the Tree of Knowledge on the advice of the talking snake with legs?
You believe in the literal truth of this story?
No, not really.
and past sin
If I'm reading you correctly, this would be sin committed by me
until a certain time in my life, but not other sins committed by
me after that time.
Original sin is somehting you inherit as a part of mankind. Simply put, it's
our nature to sin, to put one's self before others.
Original sin in Catholicism is man's hereditary guilt for the alleged
snake incident. You should choose another name for your heretical view.
<snip random bible quote>
What is this cut-off point? Recall that I was
not alive at the time of the alleged crucifixion.
You original sin and your actual past sins were redeemed by the crucifixion of
Christ at the point you became a Christian and then acheived the age of reason
for knowing good vs bad, right vs wrong. A child does not posses these advanced
features.
You seem to be saying that the crucifixion pays for sins comitted by
people until the moment they become Christians, but not thereafter.
1 - You got a source for this?
2 - This implies that turning people into Christians is a grave disservice,
causing them to incur liability for subsequent sins. Deathbed
conversion is the only safe option.
and to return salvation to the
soul of mankind.
Diversionary babble.
Just over your head. You see, our sin nature (reflected in the A&E accounting)
separates us from God - there is no salvation from sin. The Jewish faith did
nothing to relieve this problem. Then we tack on actual sin. But Christ did
something to redeem us. By our acceptance of him, repenting of our actual sins,
and following him in service to mankind, we reinherit salvation of souls
(eternal love of God).
Still over my head (or, I suspect, more babble).
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
Yes and no respectively.
Why no? You said it, now support it.
He is fucked, in the sense that he will drown, whereas a saved person
would not.
This stupid analogy is irrelevant to the issue of sin and punishment.
You'd have to make the alleged rescuer the person who filled the
pool in the first place, and threw the victim in.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 05:41:55 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:49:02 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Original sin is somehting you inherit as a part of mankind. Simply put, it's
our nature to sin, to put one's self before others.
Original sin in Catholicism is man's hereditary guilt for the alleged
snake incident. You should choose another name for your heretical view.
Original sin is not Catholicism. Original sin is something we all are quilty
of, including you.
You original sin and your actual past sins were redeemed by the crucifixion of
Christ at the point you became a Christian and then acheived the age of reason
for knowing good vs bad, right vs wrong. A child does not posses these advanced
features.
You seem to be saying that the crucifixion pays for sins comitted by
people until the moment they become Christians, but not thereafter.
Basically that is correct. Original and past sins. More sinning and you need
to go to confession.
1 - You got a source for this?
Try the bible.
John 20
22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you
forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are
not forgiven."
2 - This implies that turning people into Christians is a grave disservice,
causing them to incur liability for subsequent sins. Deathbed
conversion is the only safe option.
No, they are worst off not becoming Christians. The original and actual sin
they posess have never been redeemed, unless of course Jesus makes a special
case of them. Which is entirely possible.
Just over your head. You see, our sin nature (reflected in the A&E accounting)
separates us from God - there is no salvation from sin. The Jewish faith did
nothing to relieve this problem. Then we tack on actual sin. But Christ did
something to redeem us. By our acceptance of him, repenting of our actual sins,
and following him in service to mankind, we reinherit salvation of souls
(eternal love of God).
Still over my head (or, I suspect, more babble).
You just don't know what Christianity says.
If a man who can't swim falls into a pool and someone jumps in and pulls
him to safety, he is saved. Right?
If he then falls back in, is he still saved?
Yes and no respectively.
Why no? You said it, now support it.
He is fucked, in the sense that he will drown, whereas a saved person
would not.
So is a return sinner. Salvation is not forever. If you jump back into sin,
you are no longer saved, just like the non-swimmer.
This stupid analogy is irrelevant to the issue of sin and punishment.
You'd have to make the alleged rescuer the person who filled the
pool in the first place, and threw the victim in.
No, he didn't fill the pool with the intent on someone drowning. And no body
threw him him, he fell in.
duke-
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
06 Mar 2004 07:21:45 PM |
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spakka wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:07:31 -0600, duke wrote:
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:39:08 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's an easy one.
He did it redeem you for original
That's my share of the blame for Adam & Eve eating the fruit of
the Tree of Knowledge on the advice of the talking snake with legs?
You believe in the literal truth of this story?
No, not really.
and past sin
If I'm reading you correctly, this would be sin committed by me
until a certain time in my life, but not other sins committed by
me after that time.
Original sin is somehting you inherit as a part of mankind. Simply put, it's
our nature to sin, to put one's self before others.
Original sin in Catholicism is man's hereditary guilt for the alleged
snake incident. You should choose another name for your heretical view.
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 06:22:18 AM |
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On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:21:45 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Original sin in Catholicism is man's hereditary guilt for the alleged
snake incident. You should choose another name for your heretical view.
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
I see you're still reading the bible like you do your hpotter books.
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
It's called the sin nature of mankind, libbie.
duke-
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 10:29:24 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:21:45 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Original sin in Catholicism is man's hereditary guilt for the alleged
snake incident. You should choose another name for your heretical view.
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
I see you're still reading the bible like you do your hpotter books.
===>What makes you think that? Is that what YOU read?
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
It's called the sin nature of mankind, libbie.
===>It is called CURIOSITY and willingness to learn,
of which you know nothing, thinking it is a "sin"!
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 02:41:12 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:29:24 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
It's called the sin nature of mankind, libbie.
===>It is called CURIOSITY and willingness to learn,
of which you know nothing, thinking it is a "sin"!
It's the A&E example of sinful human nature showing up. Don't you get it yet?
duke-
*****
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
*****
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 04:51:59 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:29:24 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
It's called the sin nature of mankind, libbie.
===>It is called CURIOSITY and willingness to learn,
of which you know nothing, thinking it is a "sin"!
It's the A&E example of sinful human nature showing up. Don't you get it yet?
===>Your story.
Including your implication that they were CREATED with a "sinful nature"!
What an idiot you are, stumbling over your own silly arguments, again and again!
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 05:32:12 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:51:59 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
It's the A&E example of sinful human nature showing up. Don't you get it yet?
===>Your story.
Including your implication that they were CREATED with a "sinful nature"!
What an idiot you are, stumbling over your own silly arguments, again and again!
It's called free will, libby. Free to say yes to God or no to God. Your
choice. You will reap the rewards thereof at your judgement day.
Enjoy.
duke-
*****
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
*****
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 06:01:35 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:51:59 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
It's the A&E example of sinful human nature showing up. Don't you get it yet?
===>Your story.
Including your implication that they were CREATED with a "sinful nature"!
What an idiot you are, stumbling over your own silly arguments, again and again!
It's called free will, libby. Free to say yes to God or no to God. Your
choice.
===>You speak from complete ignorance,
as if you could say or do ANYTHING
that an omniscient "God" did not know
in advance even before you existed!
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 05:25:54 AM |
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On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:21:45 -0700, Libertarius wrote:
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
Indeed. If I could believe in the Fall story, I would be proud of
Adam for telling God '***** You!' in the name of Man's quest for knowledge.
I think that women having peiods and snakes lacking legs is a worthwhile
price to pay for that noble gesture.
Christians completely miss the point of this inspirational story.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 06:23:47 AM |
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:25:54 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
Indeed. If I could believe in the Fall story, I would be proud of
Adam for telling God '***** You!' in the name of Man's quest for knowledge.
I think that women having peiods and snakes lacking legs is a worthwhile
price to pay for that noble gesture.
Christians completely miss the point of this inspirational story.
Oh, I see - it's **us** Christians that completely miss the point, and not you
atheists.
duke-
Thank God for the almost 99% of
priests that are good priests.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus died for my sins |
07 Mar 2004 10:31:06 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:25:54 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@m16.demon.co.uk> wrote:
===>And what is so "original" about children being curious
and violating silly prohibitions?
If someone told YOU not to eat the fruit of a certain tree because
it would make you super smart, would you refrain from eating it? ;-) -- L.
Indeed. If I could believe in the Fall story, I would be proud of
Adam for telling God '***** You!' in the name of Man's quest for knowledge.
I think that women having peiods and snakes lacking legs is a worthwhile
price to pay for that noble gesture.
Christians completely miss the point of this inspirational story.
Oh, I see - it's **us** Christians that completely miss the point, and not you
atheists.
duke-
===>EXACTLY!
You are blinded by ignorance and doctrinal prejudice!
A non-believer can read the story for what it is, not for
what Christ-cultists would like it to be. -- L.
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