Religions > Atheism > If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
09 May 2005 07:44:49 AM |
| Object: |
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature and
in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time: the
attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent, and
that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and perceptions about
him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God, is a
little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/=ADweb/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath ! (Author unknown)
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| User: "zev" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
11 May 2005 03:42:31 AM |
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"Azrael" <god@my.computer.palace.com> wrote in message
news:3oa2811iid5t0l262k771m71485e6g12hu@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:15:10 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ceb5a7d41f97a38989945@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <h8cv71pofc6cotj24rj8118gbr8h5qilko@4ax.com>, xanadu222
_@mchsi.com says...
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly
what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
Um, can you please state one of these fulfilled prophecies? Just one?
Thanks!
The original poster may have his own list,
but I can also suggest a few,
although I have no idea where he gets his 2/3 statistic from.
1) That Ishmael will be great nation
Where is this great nation? I can't find it on my map anywhere.
Don't look at a map.
Travel!
And:
See Genesis 17:20.
It doesn't refer to modern nation-states.
2) That children of Israel would return from exile to the land of Israel
Well since there are jews in many countries around the world still to
this day, they obviously have not returned.
But many have.
3) That the children of Israel are a 'special' people
Special in their minds anyway
How do you explain the morbid fear
so many have had of the Jews,
over so many generations?
It's no more than a Gentile disease,
but Jews are not special in their own minds only.
1) Began to be fulfilled at the time of Muhammad,
1000 years after the writing of the Septuagint Translation,
after which time it would have been
next to impossible to insert known facts
in order to make the Bible look 'Prophetic'.
Ismael doesn't exist on any map that I have seen
2) Fulfilled in our own time. See above.
Still not fulfilled and they haven't even found all the tribes yet, so
at best it could be said some of the children of Israel have returned,
even then it's still a self fulfilling prophecy kind of like a goal
But most of the early Zionists were atheists, or almost atheists.
Biblical prophesy didn't mean much to them.
3) This is a continuing description,
and doesn't sound like a prophesy,
but in a sense it is.
Jewish influence was crucial in the formation
of every other Monotheism (all 2 of them),
No other comparably small people
has found itself in the center of world affairs,
for so many generations.
I can think of a few, sciencetist for one example, and they still
influence world affairs
No other people has returned from exile
to its ancient homeland,
speaking its ancient language,
They don't speak their ancient language, just like Americans don't
speak the same English as their for fathers from England
We have new words for 'airplane' and 'computer',
the grammar has changed slightly,
but it's recognizably Hebrew.
keeping its ancient traditions,
They don't have all their ancient traditions, then again many cultures
keep their ancient traditions as they disperse throughout the world
and when/if their children return to their homeland they maintain them
there as well
Got an example?
against all odds.
Is that enough?
No
The challenge was to produce just one.
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| User: "Azrael" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
11 May 2005 08:41:48 AM |
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On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:42:31 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Azrael" <god@my.computer.palace.com> wrote in message
news:3oa2811iid5t0l262k771m71485e6g12hu@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:15:10 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ceb5a7d41f97a38989945@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <h8cv71pofc6cotj24rj8118gbr8h5qilko@4ax.com>, xanadu222
_@mchsi.com says...
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly
what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
Um, can you please state one of these fulfilled prophecies? Just one?
Thanks!
The original poster may have his own list,
but I can also suggest a few,
although I have no idea where he gets his 2/3 statistic from.
1) That Ishmael will be great nation
Where is this great nation? I can't find it on my map anywhere.
Don't look at a map.
Travel!
I have propbably more than you ever will
And:
See Genesis 17:20.
It doesn't refer to modern nation-states.
A nation that is not a state, is that similar to Loius Farrican's
nation of islam then?
2) That children of Israel would return from exile to the land of Israel
Well since there are jews in many countries around the world still to
this day, they obviously have not returned.
But many have.
But not all so the prophecy is not fulfilled
3) That the children of Israel are a 'special' people
Special in their minds anyway
How do you explain the morbid fear
so many have had of the Jews,
over so many generations?
The same as any group of people of a different culture live in a
nation that is not thier own and keep to themselves, instead of
blending into the civilization
It's no more than a Gentile disease,
but Jews are not special in their own minds only.
I don't know anybody that thinks that jews are special
1) Began to be fulfilled at the time of Muhammad,
1000 years after the writing of the Septuagint Translation,
after which time it would have been
next to impossible to insert known facts
in order to make the Bible look 'Prophetic'.
Ismael doesn't exist on any map that I have seen
2) Fulfilled in our own time. See above.
Still not fulfilled and they haven't even found all the tribes yet, so
at best it could be said some of the children of Israel have returned,
even then it's still a self fulfilling prophecy kind of like a goal
But most of the early Zionists were atheists, or almost atheists.
Biblical prophesy didn't mean much to them.
Red herring:
Definition of Zionism
"Zionism" has several different meanings:
1. An ideology - Zionist ideology holds that the Jews are a people or
nation like any other, and should gather together in a single
homeland. Zionism was self-consciously the Jewish analogue of Italian
and German national liberation movements of the nineteenth century.
The term "Zionism" was apparently coined in 1891 by the Austrian
publicist Nathan Birnbaum, to describe the new ideology, but it was
used retroactively to describe earlier efforts and ideas to return the
Jews to their homeland for whatever reasons, and it is applied to
Evangelical Christians who want people of the Jewish religion to
return to Israel in order to hasten the second coming.
2. A descriptive term - The term "Zionism" was apparently coined in
1891 by the Austrian publicist Nathan Birnbaum, to describe the new
ideology. It is also used to describe anyone who believes Jews should
return to their ancient homeland.
3. A political movement - The Zionist movement was founded by Theodore
Herzl in 1897, incorporating the ideas of early thinkers as well as
the organization built by Hovevei Tziyon ("lovers of Zion").
3) This is a continuing description,
and doesn't sound like a prophesy,
but in a sense it is.
Jewish influence was crucial in the formation
of every other Monotheism (all 2 of them),
No other comparably small people
has found itself in the center of world affairs,
for so many generations.
I can think of a few, sciencetist for one example, and they still
influence world affairs
No other people has returned from exile
to its ancient homeland,
speaking its ancient language,
They don't speak their ancient language, just like Americans don't
speak the same English as their for fathers from England
We have new words for 'airplane' and 'computer',
the grammar has changed slightly,
but it's recognizably Hebrew.
American is recognizable as english too, and modern english is
recognizable to old english
keeping its ancient traditions,
They don't have all their ancient traditions, then again many cultures
keep their ancient traditions as they disperse throughout the world
and when/if their children return to their homeland they maintain them
there as well
Got an example?
Ukrainians, Poles, Indians (of the Hindu variety)
And yes I know real families that have lived outside of their homeland
countries and the children (4th generation+) that have returned to the
home country.
against all odds.
Is that enough?
No
The challenge was to produce just one.
And you have'nt done that yet, you are ofcourse free to keep trying.
Azrael
The thiest/diest defense:
1)I believe in god, ergo god exists
2)I believe in god, ergo I know what god wills, wants, the path to god, etc.
3)I believe in god, ergo I am right/correct
4)You don't agree with me, you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
5)You dont' beleive as I do then you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
6)You want proof of god? (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
7)You have evidence god does not exist (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
8)If you don't believe as I do you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
There was no "before" the beginning of our universe, because once upon a time there was no time.
John D. Barrow
Question #1: If I get im my spaceship and fly to the very edge of the universe what do I see out the front window?
Question #2: What is the most mass/matter that a black hole can obsorb and what happens after it reaches that point and trys to absorb more matter?
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| User: "zev" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
13 May 2005 06:10:23 AM |
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On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:42:31 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Azrael" <god@my.computer.palace.com> wrote in message
news:3oa2811iid5t0l262k771m71485e6g12hu@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:15:10 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
"The Great Hairy One" <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ceb5a7d41f97a38989945@freenews.iinet.net.au...
In article <h8cv71pofc6cotj24rj8118gbr8h5qilko@4ax.com>, xanadu222
_@mchsi.com says...
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly
what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
Um, can you please state one of these fulfilled prophecies? Just one?
Thanks!
The original poster may have his own list,
but I can also suggest a few,
although I have no idea where he gets his 2/3 statistic from.
1) That Ishmael will be great nation
Where is this great nation? I can't find it on my map anywhere.
Don't look at a map.
Travel!
I have propbably more than you ever will
And:
See Genesis 17:20.
It doesn't refer to modern nation-states.
A nation that is not a state, is that similar to Loius Farrican's
nation of islam then?
Comment:
I think Genesis 17:20 means that
there will be very many people
who consider themselves 'Ishmaelites',
considered by many others to be so,
and very likely, are.
Non Arabic Muslims are in a sense 'hangers on'
for the purposes of this verse..
2) That children of Israel would return from exile to the land of Israel
Well since there are jews in many countries around the world still to
this day, they obviously have not returned.
But many have.
But not all so the prophecy is not fulfilled
Comment:
Can't you see beyond today's newspaper?
Are you waiting for it to slap you in the face?
3) That the children of Israel are a 'special' people
Special in their minds anyway
How do you explain the morbid fear
so many have had of the Jews,
over so many generations?
The same as any group of people of a different culture live in a
nation that is not thier own and keep to themselves, instead of
blending into the civilization
Comment:
Doesn't it seem strange that Arabs
see their greatest enemies as America and the Jews?
The Nazi's enemies: communists and the Jews.
White supremacists: Negroes and Jews (and others).
Except for an honest fear of terrorist acts,
does the same fear exist towards Muslim immigrants?
Is there a European tradition of Pogroms against Gypsies
and burning their books?
And, of course, the fact that every monotheism
is either Judaism itself, or a kind of Judaism for non-Jews.
The Jews are not special except in their own minds?
Really?
It's no more than a Gentile disease,
but Jews are not special in their own minds only. I don't know anybody that
thinks that jews are special
1) Began to be fulfilled at the time of Muhammad,
1000 years after the writing of the Septuagint Translation,
after which time it would have been
next to impossible to insert known facts
in order to make the Bible look 'Prophetic'.
Ismael doesn't exist on any map that I have seen
2) Fulfilled in our own time. See above.
Still not fulfilled and they haven't even found all the tribes yet, so
at best it could be said some of the children of Israel have returned,
even then it's still a self fulfilling prophecy kind of like a goal
But most of the early Zionists were atheists, or almost atheists.
Biblical prophesy didn't mean much to them.
Red herring:
Definition of Zionism
"Zionism" has several different meanings:
1. An ideology - Zionist ideology holds that the Jews are a people or
nation like any other, and should gather together in a single
homeland. Zionism was self-consciously the Jewish analogue of Italian
and German national liberation movements of the nineteenth century.
The term "Zionism" was apparently coined in 1891 by the Austrian
publicist Nathan Birnbaum, to describe the new ideology, but it was
used retroactively to describe earlier efforts and ideas to return the
Jews to their homeland for whatever reasons, and it is applied to
Evangelical Christians who want people of the Jewish religion to
return to Israel in order to hasten the second coming.
2. A descriptive term - The term "Zionism" was apparently coined in
1891 by the Austrian publicist Nathan Birnbaum, to describe the new
ideology. It is also used to describe anyone who believes Jews should
return to their ancient homeland.
3. A political movement - The Zionist movement was founded by Theodore
Herzl in 1897, incorporating the ideas of early thinkers as well as
the organization built by Hovevei Tziyon ("lovers of Zion").
Comment:
The context makes it obvious that I'm referring to modern political Zionism.
Take No. 3 above if you like.
3) This is a continuing description,
and doesn't sound like a prophesy,
but in a sense it is.
Jewish influence was crucial in the formation
of every other Monotheism (all 2 of them),
No other comparably small people
has found itself in the center of world affairs,
for so many generations.
I can think of a few, sciencetist for one example, and they still
influence world affairs
No other people has returned from exile
to its ancient homeland,
speaking its ancient language,
They don't speak their ancient language, just like Americans don't
speak the same English as their for fathers from England
We have new words for 'airplane' and 'computer',
the grammar has changed slightly,
but it's recognizably Hebrew.
American is recognizable as english too, and modern english is
recognizable to old english
Comment:
Maybe I missed something.
Does this mean you agree with me?
keeping its ancient traditions,
They don't have all their ancient traditions, then again many cultures
keep their ancient traditions as they disperse throughout the world
and when/if their children return to their homeland they maintain them
there as well
Got an example?
Ukrainians, Poles, Indians (of the Hindu variety)
And yes I know real families that have lived outside of their homeland
countries and the children (4th generation+) that have returned to the
home country.
Comment:
That's an example?
I'm talking about almost 100 generations,
a 'homeland' which no longer exists,
a language long regarded as 'dead'!
against all odds.
Is that enough?
No
The challenge was to produce just one.
And you have'nt done that yet, you are ofcourse free to keep trying.
Comment:
Thanks.
Azrael
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 11:47:25 AM |
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zev wrote:
1) That Ishmael will be great nation
Cute example.
But not a prophecy.
It is clear that someone (doubtless pre-Islamic) seized on the idea
that Ishmael was the ancestor of the Arabs BECAUSE it was "predicted"
that he would be a great nation. As to the original meaning of Ishmael
I suggest the article in the Anchor Bible dictionary. As I see it the
"prophecy" failed.
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| User: "zev" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
11 May 2005 01:16:34 AM |
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<kleinecke@astound.net> wrote in message
news:1115743645.395028.276330@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
zev wrote:
1) That Ishmael will be great nation
Cute example.
But not a prophecy.
It is clear that someone (doubtless pre-Islamic) seized on the idea
that Ishmael was the ancestor of the Arabs BECAUSE it was "predicted"
that he would be a great nation. As to the original meaning of Ishmael
I suggest the article in the Anchor Bible dictionary. As I see it the
"prophecy" failed.
Well, the Biblical description of Ishmael
seems to match today's Arabs
but I admit I have no proof
that Arabs are Ishmaelites.
In the Bible, Ishmael refers to the first son of Abraham,
but 'Ishmaelite' seems to refer to a life-style,
as when Midianites are called Ishmaelites
because they have earrings.
But this doesn't mean that today's Arabs
are not descendants, at least partially,
of the Biblical Ishmael.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
11 May 2005 12:24:17 AM |
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On Wed, 11 May 2005 08:16:34 +0200, "zev" <zev_horn@yahoo.com> wrote:
'Ishmaelite' seems to refer to a life-style,
as when Midianites are called Ishmaelites
because they have earrings.
So is Willie Nelson a Midianite or an Ishmaelite? I always thought he
was a Methodist.
No false prophet can be successful unless he has a following, and followers are culpable when they make no attempt
to verify the truthfulness of their leader against the truth of the Scripture and, as a consequence, they deceive themselves.
---Gary A. Hand
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:21:13 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:56:17 +1000,
The Great Hairy One <the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
Um, can you please state one of these fulfilled prophecies? Just one?
Thanks!
Okay. The one that predicted WHERE Jesus would be born...
hundreds of years before His birth.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 02:03:43 PM |
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On 09 May 2005, Craig Chilton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
A scientist from 60 years ago could easily understand the
principles of modern electronics - thats because those principles
are based upon an accumulation of consistent, logical, evidence
based knowledge - something that cannot be said of the Bible.
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
How difficult do you think it was to read a book of prophecies, then fulfil
them as you write the sequel?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think
there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading
around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and
praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:19:04 AM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:03:43 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
A scientist from 60 years ago could easily understand the
principles of modern electronics -- that's because those principles
are based upon an accumulation of consistent, logical, evidence
based knowledge - something that cannot be said of the Bible.
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it contains.
And concentrate just on those that could not possibly have been
self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a single miss. The
odds against that are *literally* astronomical. That's not exactly what
you said, but it comes close enough as an analogue.
How difficult do you think it was to read a book of prophecies,
then fulfil them as you write the sequel?
Try re-reading, "And concentrate just on those that could not
possibly have been self-fulfilling."
Such as where Jesus would be born. Just one of dozens and
dozens of such.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:48:15 AM |
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Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:03:43 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
A scientist from 60 years ago could easily understand the
principles of modern electronics -- that's because those principles
are based upon an accumulation of consistent, logical, evidence
based knowledge - something that cannot be said of the Bible.
Wanna bet? Check out the number of prophecies that it
contains. And concentrate just on those that could not possibly
have been self-fulfilling. 2/3 have been fulfilled without a
single miss. The odds against that are *literally* astronomical.
That's not exactly what you said, but it comes close enough as an
analogue.
How difficult do you think it was to read a book of prophecies,
then fulfil them as you write the sequel?
Try re-reading, "And concentrate just on those that could not
possibly have been self-fulfilling."
Such as where Jesus would be born. Just one of dozens and
dozens of such.
Let me write the story 100 or more years after the alleged event and I'll
have him born anyplace you want.
It's odd that neither this birthplace or where he allegedly lived
(http://www.americanatheist.org/win96-7/T2/ozjesus.html) *is* mentioned in
the gospels but nowhere in the epistles, written before the gospels.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:34:28 AM |
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On 11 May 2005, Craig Chilton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
How difficult do you think it was to read a book of prophecies,
then fulfil them as you write the sequel?
Try re-reading, "And concentrate just on those that could not
possibly have been self-fulfilling."
Such as where Jesus would be born. Just one of dozens and
dozens of such.
Now you know why the four (or five) gospel writers managed to agree on
that. They looked it up.
They did manage, though, to mangle his name, which was supposed to be
Emmanuel. Their spontaneous arrival at the name, Jesus Christ is not
surprising, though, since it means "annointed savior".
And what happened to the "I will return within your lifetime" prophesies?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 01:34:59 PM |
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Craig Chilton wrote:
On 9 May 2005 05:44:49 -0700,
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent,
and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and percep-
tions about him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
<snip>
So the answer is that we can't know the answer?
--
James B, defeating birth control since 2000
aa #944
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 02:00:10 PM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 13:34:59 -0500,
James <spamblock@com.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent,
and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and percep-
tions about him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
<snip>
So the answer is that we can't know the answer?
Not YET, apparently.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 04:18:28 PM |
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Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 13:34:59 -0500,
James <spamblock@com.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent,
and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and percep-
tions about him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
<snip>
So the answer is that we can't know the answer?
Not YET, apparently.
If it's a frame of reference beyond our comprehension and not simply
beyond our understanding, then it's uknowable.
--
James B, defeating birth control since 2000
aa #944
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 07:57:08 AM |
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In article <nmcv71909d4bvs93l3uk4goltge2v3s42g@4ax.com>, xanadu222
_@mchsi.com says...
Not YET, apparently.
So are you saying that give us a few million years and we'll become god-
concepts?
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 12:23:53 PM |
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On 09 May 2005, Craig Chilton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
On 9 May 2005 05:44:49 -0700,
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and percep- tions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
<cue mysterious ways music>
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Great. Now if you could please show that this god exists before basing
an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to consider how
long the god has been around.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock." [Howard Stern]
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 01:50:54 PM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Great. Now if you could please show that this God exists before
basing an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to
consider how long God has been around.
The evidence surrounds you.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 10:27:01 PM |
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Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years!
They would comprehend modern chips quite easily. Take a look at this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart
And he is still living and kicking.
Of course, there are many others.
And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Really? You get that from the "bible"?
Great. Now if you could please show that this God exists before
basing an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to
consider how long God has been around.
The evidence surrounds you.
We have evidence of the universe, but none about a "god" or a pack of
"gods".
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 01:23:30 PM |
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Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:MTVfe.19880$vN2.688530
@wagner.videotron.net:
Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years!
They would comprehend modern chips quite easily. Take a look at this
guy:
I doubt they would have had a clue before the invention of the semi-
conductor diode and the transistor.
--
DWA should be a felony.
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 04:37:01 PM |
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Dave Lister wrote:
Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:MTVfe.19880$vN2.688530
@wagner.videotron.net:
Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years!
They would comprehend modern chips quite easily. Take a look at this
guy:
I doubt they would have had a clue before the invention of the semi-
conductor diode and the transistor.
I was saying that the transition from vacuum tubes to modern
chips/circuit boards happened while a lot of the actors are still alive.
Modern chips may be complicated, but they're not alien technology.
Bring back Pascal, who invented a metal calculator for adding and
substracting, and just show him a spiffy HP graphing calculator. He'd be
baffled for a time, sure.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 04:57:48 PM |
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Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:DR9ge.1466$Mm1.10973
@weber.videotron.net:
Dave Lister wrote:
Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:MTVfe.19880
$vN2.688530
@wagner.videotron.net:
Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some
time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about
Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years!
They would comprehend modern chips quite easily. Take a look at this
guy:
I doubt they would have had a clue before the invention of the semi-
conductor diode and the transistor.
I was saying that the transition from vacuum tubes to modern
chips/circuit boards happened while a lot of the actors are still
alive.
Modern chips may be complicated, but they're not alien technology.
They are if you don't understand semi-conductors.
Bring back Pascal, who invented a metal calculator for adding and
substracting, and just show him a spiffy HP graphing calculator. He'd
be
baffled for a time, sure.
He would learn how to use it, but would need a lot of catching up to
understand how it works. If you sent a calculator into the past they
never would understand it.
--
DWA should be a felony.
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 07:09:52 PM |
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Dave Lister wrote:
Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:DR9ge.1466$Mm1.10973
@weber.videotron.net:
Dave Lister wrote:
Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in news:MTVfe.19880
$vN2.688530
@wagner.videotron.net:
Craig Chilton wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some
time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about
Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years!
They would comprehend modern chips quite easily. Take a look at this
guy:
I doubt they would have had a clue before the invention of the semi-
conductor diode and the transistor.
I was saying that the transition from vacuum tubes to modern
chips/circuit boards happened while a lot of the actors are still
alive.
Modern chips may be complicated, but they're not alien technology.
They are if you don't understand semi-conductors.
In science, pretty much everything is complicated if you don't
understand the underlying concepts or technology.
A better example of what I was trying to say is Gordon Moore. He was
born before the transistor, circuits, semi-conductors, etc.
He's the co-founder of Intel.
Bring back Pascal, who invented a metal calculator for adding and
substracting, and just show him a spiffy HP graphing calculator. He'd
be
baffled for a time, sure.
He would learn how to use it, but would need a lot of catching up to
understand how it works.
Indeed.
If you sent a calculator into the past they
never would understand it.
Depends how far. The 60 years gap the original poster suggested is not
large enough.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 02:00:15 PM |
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On 09 May 2005, Craig Chilton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Great. Now if you could please show that this God exists before
basing an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to
consider how long God has been around.
The evidence surrounds you.
My desk? My computer system? The walls of my office? These are
evidence of manufacture. Oh, maybe you mean the world. Huh. Simply
because you don't understand where trees and mountains come from, doesn't
mean a magical god made them for you. That's called argument from
personal incredulity - another logical fallacy.
I'll bet you think the air was made by god because it's a perfect mixture
for us to breathe. That's like a puddle taking wonder in the fact that
its hole is just the right size and shape to contain it.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:15:31 AM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:00:15 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Great. Now if you could please show that this God exists before
basing an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to
consider how long God has been around.
The evidence surrounds you.
My desk? My computer system? The walls of my office? These are
evidence of manufacture. Oh, maybe you mean the world. Huh. Simply
because you don't understand where trees and mountains come from,
doesn't mean a magical god made them for you. That's called argument
from personal incredulity -- another logical fallacy.
I'll bet you think the air was made by god because it's a perfect mixture
for us to breathe. That's like a puddle taking wonder in the fact that
its hole is just the right size and shape to contain it.
You have chose to ignore the obvious. Your privilege. My
sincere wish for you, Vic, is that your doing so doesn't come
back to bite you in the butt someday. For a VERY long time.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:24:50 AM |
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On 11 May 2005, Craig Chilton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
I'll bet you think the air was made by god because it's a perfect
mixture
for us to breathe. That's like a puddle taking wonder in the fact
that its hole is just the right size and shape to contain it.
You have chose to ignore the obvious. Your privilege.
The obvious is that there are no supernatural people living in the sky
performing miracles. Nasa has proven that.
My
sincere wish for you, Vic, is that your doing so doesn't come
back to bite you in the butt someday. For a VERY long time.
Your fears don't frighten me.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 12:59:56 AM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 18:50:54 GMT, Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500,
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are
inconsistent, and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus
and perceptions about him were gathered from a variety of
conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
Great. Now if you could please show that this God exists before
basing an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to
consider how long God has been around.
The evidence surrounds you.
Then you should have no trouble pointing some of it out.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 12:53:10 PM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23:53 -0500, Vic Sagerquist
<address@withheld.com> wrote:
Great. Now if you could please show that this god exists before basing
an argument on it as if it were fact, we might be able to consider how
long the god has been around.
I am sorry but your question has been voided. An answer would require
the use of a brane...er...brain!
Perhaps you believe in miracles. That's what it would take for an
answer.
The FBI is after you!!!
http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/index.html
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
10 May 2005 12:59:51 AM |
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:12:29 GMT, Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
wrote:
On 9 May 2005 05:44:49 -0700,
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent,
and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and percep-
tions about him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
In other words it doesn't make any sense.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
12 May 2005 12:47:32 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:59:51 +0200,
thomas p <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and
stature and>in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time:
the attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent,
and that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and percep-
tions about him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
The notion that Jesus, who was God, gained the favor of God,
is a little bit nonsensical, in my opinion.
The answer seems obvious, in *these* terms: The relationship
between/among/having to do with God vis-a-vis Jesus operates
in a frame of reference that's beyond our comprehension.
How surprising is that? Well -- just think about the degree
to which scientists working with vacuum tubes 60 years ago
would have been able to comprehend today's circuit boards.
And that's only a mere SIXTY years! And God has a head
start on humanity by HOW many OCtillions of years?
In other words it doesn't make any sense.
No. It probably makes PERFECT sense. Literally. But happens
to still lie beyond our comprehension at this time in human history.
Just as Plato couldn't have comprehended plasma TVs, or the
Space Shuttle.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
13 May 2005 08:46:23 AM |
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In article <81r581hckln8r6o775pn6nar7ojj0216pg@4ax.com>, xanadu222
_@mchsi.com says...
No. It probably makes PERFECT sense. Literally. But happens
to still lie beyond our comprehension at this time in human history.
Just as Plato couldn't have comprehended plasma TVs, or the
Space Shuttle.
What makes you think Plato couldn't understand those things? He was an
intelligent bloke, if someone explained it to him, he may pick it up
pretty quick.
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God? |
09 May 2005 05:33:58 PM |
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On 9 May 2005 05:44:49 -0700, "Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
If Jesus IS God.... How can Jesus increase in favor with God?
Luke 2:52 reads: "And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature and
in favor with God and men."
This verse just shows what I've been saying for quite some time: the
attributes attached to Jesus by the Bible writers are inconsistent, and
that seems to be because the stories about Jesus and perceptions about
him were gathered from a variety of conflicting traditions.
They're not inconsistent at all when you consider the comment is in regards to
the fully man Jesus.
As long as you hide from Jesus' dual nature as both fully divine and fully man,
you will never understand. Jesus spent his entire time on the earth prior to
his resurrection as fully man.
See how simple that is when you understand.
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath ! (Author unknown)
This author was ignorant of the true Jesus.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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