| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
28 Mar 2005 08:55:53 PM |
| Object: |
If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death. If she was a lab rat, they'd be outside
protesting on her behalf. Of course, she hasn't raped or killed, she
hasn't planned a terrorist attack against our country and she isn't a
rat or monkey, so liberals are of course up in arms that anyone would
be against starving her to death. Fuckin liberals are so damn stupid.
.
|
|
| User: "the Bede" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 09:01:39 PM |
|
|
"if"?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Milhouse Guidry of the mWo" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 01:36:46 AM |
|
|
the Bede wrote:
"if"?
****************** reply.
--
Who are you to doubt El Milhouse?
NUMBER ONE all-time posting leader : alt.pro-wrestling.dx
Winner - 2004 March Melee
Final Four - 2004 KORSPW
Final Four - 2005 RSPW Rumble
mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 05:32:39 AM |
|
|
<livingdjinn@yahoo.com> wrote:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
Another bigot lying about "liberals".
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "sAnToLiNa" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 03:48:47 AM |
|
|
<livingdjinn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal,
No, you've got it all wrong. Commie libs would be demanding that EVERYONE
have access to feeding tubes filled with soy gruel, and it is just a logical
extension that convicts would have minimal access to the same thing.
Personally, I think there is a seductiveness to this com/lib viewpoint. I'm
fucking sick and tired of working for a living, deciding what to eat,
chewing my food, swallowing. ***** that *****. I DEMAND a feeding tube, it
just isn't FAIR that Terri Schiavo got one and everybody else didn't.
[shudder, shaking head]
Phew. Damn, nearly had a pinko moment there. Praise God, I'm back to
reality.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 09:05:35 PM |
|
|
wrote in news:1112043353.383975.322880
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death. If she was a lab rat, they'd be outside
protesting on her behalf. Of course, she hasn't raped or killed, she
hasn't planned a terrorist attack against our country and she isn't a
rat or monkey, so liberals are of course up in arms that anyone would
be against starving her to death. Fuckin liberals are so damn stupid.
If the nonsensical diatribe above is any indication of stupidity, then you
beat the liberals by a mile.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 09:40:40 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death. If she was a lab rat, they'd be outside
protesting on her behalf. Of course, she hasn't raped or killed, she
hasn't planned a terrorist attack against our country and she isn't a
rat or monkey, so liberals are of course up in arms that anyone would
be against starving her to death. Fuckin liberals are so damn stupid.
Let us apply some maths to your statements
If <premis> then <proposition>
the premis <p> is (as you know) false - so let us assign a value to
false = 0
the proposition is true (even though it may not factually be so) = 1
so we have
<p> => <q>
0 => 1
The question then becomes is your statement valid? ie, does <p> => <q>
=1 Yes it is.
0 => 1 is 1 ie. true
but, before you get too carried away....
you can conclude anything from a false assumption, so "F => anything" is T.
Your statement is logically correct, even though your assumption is
false. Are you happy now?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ralph Kennedy" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 11:04:45 PM |
|
|
Martin <martin_nospam@btinternet.com> writes:
livingdjinn@yahoo.com wrote:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death. If she was a lab rat, they'd be outside
protesting on her behalf. Of course, she hasn't raped or killed, she
hasn't planned a terrorist attack against our country and she isn't a
rat or monkey, so liberals are of course up in arms that anyone would
be against starving her to death. Fuckin liberals are so damn stupid.
Let us apply some maths to your statements
If <premis> then <proposition>
the premis <p> is (as you know) false - so let us assign a value to
false = 0
the proposition is true (even though it may not factually be so) = 1
so we have
<p> => <q>
0 => 1
The question then becomes is your statement valid? ie, does <p> => <q>
=1 Yes it is.
0 => 1 is 1 ie. true
but, before you get too carried away....
you can conclude anything from a false assumption, so "F => anything" is T.
Your statement is logically correct, even though your assumption is
false. Are you happy now?
<George Bush>
FUZZY MATH!!@!!!! MY OPP0N1NT 1S US1N6 FUZZY MATH!!1!!@!!!!
</George Bush>
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet:
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 09:05:01 PM |
|
|
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 09:32:13 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide. Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 09:41:44 PM |
|
|
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide. Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
What a lovely, heartfelt -- and heart-rending -- post. Thank you for
what it took to write that.
I feel sad for what you and your father went through, just as I feel
sad for some I know who are going through similar ordeals this very
day.
Simply going through such situations with pets has changed my own
attitudes from "I'm not sure I could ever to that" to being grateful
that when the time came, I was able to give them a painless leavetaking,
and end their irremediable suffering.
How much more so with people, people who expressly specify that
they would like to leave now, or who have expresed a horror of
ending up in Terri's situation.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Samuel Goldstein" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 10:19:35 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide. Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sean Scott Its@secret" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 01:52:18 AM |
|
|
"Samuel Goldstein" <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote in message
news:il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey"
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal,
let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid
millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months
after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He
was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate
with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with
the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri,
because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here
watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to
pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him
due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The
fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if
the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it
should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a
huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That
we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to
see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will
be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at
peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide.
Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But
we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable
and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong,
but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not
want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's a good thing she has nothing to do with the feeding tube being pulled
then and as such it isn't suicide.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Samuel Goldstein" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 03:09:01 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:52:18 -0500, "Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote:
"Samuel Goldstein" <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote in message
news:il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey"
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal,
let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid
millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months
after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He
was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate
with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with
the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri,
because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here
watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to
pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him
due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The
fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if
the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it
should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a
huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That
we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to
see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will
be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at
peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide.
Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But
we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable
and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong,
but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not
want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's a good thing she has nothing to do with the feeding tube being pulled
then and as such it isn't suicide.
HERE'S a newsflash, moron.. thats what her husband is saying she
said.. so... do try and keep up..
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Doug Jacobs" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 AM |
|
|
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Samuel Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@templebethisrael.org> wrote:
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's not suicide - she's unable to actually do anything to herself in her
current condition.
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead - and has
been for years.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 02:22:36 AM |
|
|
"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:114hco2fluddecd@corp.supernews.com...
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@templebethisrael.org> wrote:
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's not suicide - she's unable to actually do anything to herself in her
current condition.
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead - and has
been for years.
I have yet to hear one medical professional say that.
Do you have some reference to any medical professional that would say she is
already dead?
It may not be suicide, maybe not murder..some may argue. But it is killing
a person
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 07:42:30 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:22:36 -0500, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:114hco2fluddecd@corp.supernews.com...
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@templebethisrael.org> wrote:
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's not suicide - she's unable to actually do anything to herself in her
current condition.
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead - and has
been for years.
I have yet to hear one medical professional say that.
Do you have some reference to any medical professional that would say she is
already dead?
It may not be suicide, maybe not murder..some may argue. But it is killing
a person
Actually, it's killing a human being. Terri Schiavo the person died
when her brain disappeared. Killing her should be even less
controversial than killing a fetus, since even the fetus has the
potential to become a person.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"If you are anything like me you feel very passionately about the
Terri Schiavo issue. You are passionately sick of hearing about it.
You passionately want her to just fucking die already. You are
passionately embarrassed by all of the people pretending a 15 year
coma is something you can recover from. You passionately want to feed
barbed wire up Tom DeLay's rectum. All of these things are natural
things to feel at this point in the debacle."
--Zack Parsons, Something Awful 3-25-05
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DarkSheer" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 11:01:30 PM |
|
|
Osprey wrote:
"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:114hco2fluddecd@corp.supernews.com...
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@templebethisrael.org> wrote:
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week..
as such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is
considered one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT
WANT TO DIE THAT WAY.
It's not suicide - she's unable to actually do anything to herself
in her current condition.
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead -
and has been for years.
I have yet to hear one medical professional say that.
Do you have some reference to any medical professional that would say
she is already dead?
It may not be suicide, maybe not murder..some may argue. But it is
killing a person
Yes, starving her is very inhumane. Even murderers get a quick and painless
death.
Ryan
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Samuel Goldstein" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 03:08:03 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Samuel Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@templebethisrael.org> wrote:
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
It's not suicide - she's unable to actually do anything to herself in her
current condition.
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead - and has
been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
if that piece of ***** husband of hers had got her the treatment that
he SUED for in the first place..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 07:53:48 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:08:03 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead - and has
been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
Like what, roll her eyes and drool?
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"If you are anything like me you feel very passionately about the
Terri Schiavo issue. You are passionately sick of hearing about it.
You passionately want her to just fucking die already. You are
passionately embarrassed by all of the people pretending a 15 year
coma is something you can recover from. You passionately want to feed
barbed wire up Tom DeLay's rectum. All of these things are natural
things to feel at this point in the debacle."
--Zack Parsons, Something Awful 3-25-05
.
|
|
|
| User: "DarkSheer" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 11:04:19 PM |
|
|
Rob Browning wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:08:03 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead -
and has been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
Like what, roll her eyes and drool?
They say she smiles when someone familiar walks in the room and her eyes
light up sometimes when people talk to here. I guess the point is, she was
never given the chance for treatment to see if it would work. I don't think
he really wanted her to get better.
Ryan
.
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 11:11:32 PM |
|
|
DarkSheer wrote:
Rob Browning wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:08:03 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead -
and has been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
Like what, roll her eyes and drool?
They say she smiles when someone familiar walks in the room and her eyes
light up sometimes when people talk to here. I guess the point is, she was
never given the chance for treatment to see if it would work. I don't think
he really wanted her to get better.
Ryan
Point 1. What does this have to do with wrestling, Howard Stern, Final
Fantasy, college football, Sony's Playstation 2, or the Real World
television show? Snip irrelevant groups!
Point 2. My brother "smiles" sometimes when I enter his rooom when he's
asleep. Does that mean he knows I'm there? Nope. I've heard stories
that said that Terri "smiles" when there is no one in the room as well.
And you say that her "eyes light up" *sometimes*. Do you have evidence
of this, or hearsay?
She _WAS_ given the chance for treatment. She had FIFTEEN YEARS of
treatment. Michael's spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (perhaps
more) to "try to get her better". To say that he didn't WANT to make
her better is sickening beyond belief. Apologize to Michael Schiavo
right now, DarkSheer!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Trevor Zion Bauknight" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 11:13:19 PM |
|
|
In rec.sport.football.college DarkSheer <rdettl@____dundee.net> wrote:
Rob Browning wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:08:03 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead -
and has been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
Like what, roll her eyes and drool?
They say she smiles when someone familiar walks in the room and her eyes
light up sometimes when people talk to here. I guess the point is, she was
Hey, my dog does that. And my dog knows why.
--
Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including
Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
30 Mar 2005 11:13:44 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:04:19 -0500, "DarkSheer"
<rdettl@____Dundee.net> wrote:
Rob Browning wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:08:03 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:44:34 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
I wouldn't even call it murder since she's arugably already dead -
and has been for years.
***** she can do many things.. and would be able to do a lot more
Like what, roll her eyes and drool?
They say she smiles when someone familiar walks in the room and her eyes
light up sometimes when people talk to here. I guess the point is, she was
"They" also say that the Virgin Mary sometimes appears in potato chips
and pancakes.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"If you are anything like me you feel very passionately about the
Terri Schiavo issue. You are passionately sick of hearing about it.
You passionately want her to just fucking die already. You are
passionately embarrassed by all of the people pretending a 15 year
coma is something you can recover from. You passionately want to feed
barbed wire up Tom DeLay's rectum. All of these things are natural
things to feel at this point in the debacle."
--Zack Parsons, Something Awful 3-25-05
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 10:55:43 PM |
|
|
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com> Samuel Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> writes:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide. Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
According to the ABC poll of March 21, 63% of Catholics polled indicated
that the feeding tube should be removed, 26% opposed.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 11:02:32 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com> Samuel
Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> writes:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey"
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article
<1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one
meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of
executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to
condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would
like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have
since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the
past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as
wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from
cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they
knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not
survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will
change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have
paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through
an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the
false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine
months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October
1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even
begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to
communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger.
Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that
hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like
Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting
here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe,
having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just
trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's
of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion.
The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be
allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think
it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting
into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to
just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own
life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is
taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't
want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully
she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will
be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they
will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide.
Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted
assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I
would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a
hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't
transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of
the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is
wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I
would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to
be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week..
as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is
considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO
DIE
THAT WAY.
According to the ABC poll of March 21, 63% of Catholics polled
indicated
that the feeding tube should be removed, 26% opposed.
Very interesting
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 11:10:41 PM |
|
|
In article <1112050952.073414.123290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com> Samuel
Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> writes:
{...}
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week..
as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is
considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO
DIE
THAT WAY.
According to the ABC poll of March 21, 63% of Catholics polled
indicated
that the feeding tube should be removed, 26% opposed.
Very interesting
As interesting to me were the numbers for Democrats, Independents, and
Republicans -- 65%, 63%, and 61% respectively. Not a great deal
of difference.
Broken down as Liberal/Moderate/Conservative, the spread was larger, but
still not huge: 68% / 69% / 54%.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
28 Mar 2005 11:33:14 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:d2a2th$q2r$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112050952.073414.123290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com> Samuel
Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> writes:
{...}
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week..
as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is
considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO
DIE
THAT WAY.
According to the ABC poll of March 21, 63% of Catholics polled
indicated
that the feeding tube should be removed, 26% opposed.
Very interesting
As interesting to me were the numbers for Democrats, Independents, and
Republicans -- 65%, 63%, and 61% respectively. Not a great deal
of difference.
So why are so many trying to make this out to be a political issue? I tried
to tell a few in here the past few days, it's stupid making this a political
issue. There are people on all sides that have similiar opinions on this.
Broken down as Liberal/Moderate/Conservative, the spread was larger, but
still not huge: 68% / 69% / 54%.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Samuel Goldstein" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 02:59:05 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:55:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com> Samuel Goldstein <Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> writes:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:41:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <Hb2dnVxAkI-b6tXfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" < > wrote in message
news:d29rht$bt5$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <1112043353.383975.322880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
livingdjinn@yahoo.com writes:
Liberals would be up in arms if anyone dared to deny her one meal, let
alone starve her to death.
And that's because society has provided humane means of executing
condemned criminals -- while at the same time refusing to
have the courage to face the issue that we also need to condone
means of humanely ending human life when that is the merciful
thing to do. If it comes to this for me some day, I would like
to have the same access to a dignified and graceful end that
my pets currently have.
I have never really given this issue as much thought as I have since we
started to learn about Terri. I have had my opinions in the past, and I
will admit in the past I had once considered assisted suicide as wrong.
That was until I had experienced watching my father die from cancer. He
didn't starve to death, but he did suffer due to the treatments.
What bothered me the most about his case was the fact that they knew his
cancer was so advanced, Lung Cancer stage 3B, that he would not survive.
Of course when you are in this situation, your outlook will change. My
father meant everything to me, my best friend. I would have paid millions
if I could have, if it meant saving him. My family went through an
emotional roller coaster with the doctors, first getting the false hope,
then seeing him get sick again. This went on and on for nine months after
learning of his cancer. Until eventually he died in October 1999. He was
on a ventilator during his last 3 weeks with us. I can't even begin to
describe how hard it was seeing him like that. He tried to communicate with
us, but was unable too.
I went through the stages..the shock, the denial, the anger. Then I
accepted what had happened and learned from it.
I was angry at the doctors for even putting him through that hell, with the
chemo and radiation. He was on a feeding tube himself, like Terri, because
of the radiation and what it had done to his throat. Sitting here watching
a man who loved a good old T-Bone steak and a baked potatoe, having to pour
a can of Ensure into a tube..was not easy.
Now, we are watching Terri's fight. Maybe her husband is just trying to
make sure her wishes are carried out, I have my own criticism's of him due
to his actions while she lay helpless. But that is my opinion. The fact
is, she shouldn't have to starve to death.
Do I support assisted suicide today?
I believe it is a case by case decision. I think it should be allowed if the
person is terminal with absolutely no hope at all. I also think it should be
clear that the person wants to die, not someone elses word.
There is also the religous part of this issue. Without getting into a huge
debate about it, if you don't agree with my view we can agree to just
disagree and respect each others opinion.
I have always been taught that it is a sin to take one's own life. That we
will die at God's will, not ours. Perhaps, this is what is taking place
with Terri, it is God's will when she dies. Of course we don't want to see
her suffer, but on the brighter side when it's over hopefully she will be at
peace, with God and no longer suffering. I hope her family will be at peace
as well. If there is a heaven, and I believe there is, they will be
together again..as I will be with my father again.
But that has been a struggle with my accepting assisted suicide. Watching
my father, and now the issue with Terri. Would I have wanted assisted
suicide with my father? No, but if I had my way..I think I would have
wanted him home to die with his family..rather than in a hospital. But we
couldn't do that. They told us that the ventilator wasn't transportable and
if they had taken it off of him, he wouldn't have made it out of the
hospital.
I think now, my opinion has changed. Maybe assisted suicide is wrong, but I
think in the extreme cases it is the humane thing to do. I would not want
to suffer, I would not want one of my family members to suffer.
We treat dogs and criminals better than that. Changes need to be made,
attitudes need to change.
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
According to the ABC poll of March 21, 63% of Catholics polled indicated
that the feeding tube should be removed, 26% opposed.
-- cary
these fake ***** polls are why shes not getting helped. The media is
helping kill her because they see it as a way to "stick it to GWB"..
fucking vultures..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 07:49:51 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:59:05 -0600, Samuel Goldstein
<Hasidic_Jew@TempleBethIsrael.Org> wrote:
these fake ***** polls are why shes not getting helped. The media is
helping kill her because they see it as a way to "stick it to GWB"..
I'm sure you with your extensive experience in statistics have proof
that these polls are fake.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"If you are anything like me you feel very passionately about the
Terri Schiavo issue. You are passionately sick of hearing about it.
You passionately want her to just fucking die already. You are
passionately embarrassed by all of the people pretending a 15 year
coma is something you can recover from. You passionately want to feed
barbed wire up Tom DeLay's rectum. All of these things are natural
things to feel at this point in the debacle."
--Zack Parsons, Something Awful 3-25-05
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
|
| Title: Re: If Terri Schiavo was a child raping serial killer |
29 Mar 2005 12:45:00 AM |
|
|
In article <il0h419apdcs15f4ffhkcvuhei6ncsqrae@4ax.com>, Samuel
Goldstein said...
Terri is a well known catholic..going to mass everal times a week.. as
such she would definitely know and believe that suicide is considered
one sure way to go to hell. AND SHE SURE AS HELL WOULDNT WANT TO DIE
THAT WAY.
I know many Catholics who support the right of a person to end
extreme suffering and who support what amounts to voluntary
euthanasia. There is, after all, a difference between what
bishops pronounce and what people in the pews believe. (Also,
for what little it's worth, most Catholics I know also disagree
strongly with the GOP's and the religious right's interference
in the Shiavo case.)
In any event, based upon my readings and on conversations with
the clergy, I don't think refusing extreme measures is
considered a sin. For example, a pamphlet issued by the local
Pittsburgh diocese ("Living Wills & Advanced Directives: A
Catholic Perspective") explains that "the Catholic Church
teaches that a medical treatment or procedure that carries with
it little hope of benefit and is burdensome to the patient is
'extraordinary' and is not obligatory."
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
