Religions > Atheism > If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Greywolf" |
| Date: |
01 Jul 2005 07:25:55 AM |
| Object: |
If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that Atheists
are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and disdain - even
towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian warning teenagers to stay
away from this forum and insinuating that this place is a hotbed of violence
and murder. (I *do* understand that the dude is a little off in his
thinking, but the same basic sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms,
by other Christian visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum
members to openly wonder: "Just what in the Hell *is* a Christian? I've
often told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a
Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it
astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can
be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?
Greywolf
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
09 Jul 2005 04:57:38 PM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Your problem is that you think men WANT 'unambiguous'. They don't. Never
have. Can't take simple directions, don't ask, don't believe when they
get 'em, take side trips, end up driving 100 miles for a five mile trip.
Perhaps your god buddy should've given the instructions to a woman
instead of a man?
Actually, yeah. ;-)
Ya think? If Eve was given the original warning about eating the
forbidden fruit, her female curiosity would've led to her eating it,
just like in the story about Pandora opening some forbidden box,
and you know it!
But I was using 'men' in the universal sense, as in 'mankind', not 'males'.
On the other hand, you may have a point.
Oh, c'mon... Mentioning driving directions and men not wanting to
stop to ask for directions was a direct reference to "men," not
"mankind," and you know it! :)
And if women were given the driving instructions, they'd surely
sidetrack or take a detour if they saw a sign along the road which
said "shoe sale ahead, exit 14."
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
10 Jul 2005 08:35:17 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:j9h0d1hgni478240boib21cv32vbab7r3s@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Your problem is that you think men WANT 'unambiguous'. They don't.
Never
have. Can't take simple directions, don't ask, don't believe when they
get 'em, take side trips, end up driving 100 miles for a five mile
trip.
Perhaps your god buddy should've given the instructions to a woman
instead of a man?
Actually, yeah. ;-)
Ya think? If Eve was given the original warning about eating the
forbidden fruit, her female curiosity would've led to her eating it,
just like in the story about Pandora opening some forbidden box,
and you know it!
But I was using 'men' in the universal sense, as in 'mankind', not
'males'.
On the other hand, you may have a point.
Oh, c'mon... Mentioning driving directions and men not wanting to
stop to ask for directions was a direct reference to "men," not
"mankind," and you know it! :)
And if women were given the driving instructions, they'd surely
sidetrack or take a detour if they saw a sign along the road which
said "shoe sale ahead, exit 14."
HEY! Not ALL women would do that!
Just me.
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
12 Jul 2005 05:06:30 PM |
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On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 21:38:17 GMT, "DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net>
wrote:
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:uf50d11al7ofcgfqg9h9gctu9g6p8ufn5n@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Your problem is that you think men WANT 'unambiguous'. They don't. Never
have. Can't take simple directions, don't ask, don't believe when they
get
'em, take side trips, end up driving 100 miles for a five mile trip.
Perhaps your god buddy should've given the instructions to a woman
instead of a man?
Actually, yeah. ;-)
But I was using 'men' in the universal sense, as in 'mankind', not 'males'.
On the other hand, you may have a point.
Well, we do (or did a while back) have a female saviour named "Dore
Williamson". ;-)
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
12 Jul 2005 07:33:30 PM |
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"erikc" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:5mf8d1lmpcs3qargd4la48vbuv3fim8a7l@4ax.com...
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 21:38:17 GMT, "DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net>
wrote:
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:uf50d11al7ofcgfqg9h9gctu9g6p8ufn5n@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Your problem is that you think men WANT 'unambiguous'. They don't.
Never
have. Can't take simple directions, don't ask, don't believe when they
get
'em, take side trips, end up driving 100 miles for a five mile trip.
Perhaps your god buddy should've given the instructions to a woman
instead of a man?
Actually, yeah. ;-)
But I was using 'men' in the universal sense, as in 'mankind', not
'males'.
On the other hand, you may have a point.
Well, we do (or did a while back) have a female saviour named "Dore
Williamson". ;-)
Just looked her up. I'm glad I missed her. ;-)
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 07:36:42 AM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 02:49:46 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:8mmfc1du3jdehmadr4fnsnamdpmpmv299e@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people
do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Elroy, sweetie, you know better than to ask ME that one. ;-)
However....they can't. Or rather, they CAN, of course, but those outside
whatever sect they espouse can gently (or not so gently) point out that they
are incorrect; that their idea of what that absolute moral code is just
might be a wee bit incorrect. Or even wildly from the next universe over.
All, that is, except for mine. Mine's right. ;-)
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee problem,
as well?
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 05:14:29 PM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly
enough to think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly
those teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people
do not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Elroy, sweetie, you know better than to ask ME that one. ;-)
However....they can't. Or rather, they CAN, of course, but those outside
whatever sect they espouse can gently (or not so gently) point out that they
are incorrect; that their idea of what that absolute moral code is just
might be a wee bit incorrect. Or even wildly from the next universe over.
All, that is, except for mine. Mine's right. ;-)
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee problem,
as well?
Like what?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 10:05:12 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:0kogc1hmm3rbfb9lndvta0qjmem8i0dr8o@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so
strongly
enough to think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what
exactly
those teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And
people
do not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Elroy, sweetie, you know better than to ask ME that one. ;-)
However....they can't. Or rather, they CAN, of course, but those outside
whatever sect they espouse can gently (or not so gently) point out that
they
are incorrect; that their idea of what that absolute moral code is just
might be a wee bit incorrect. Or even wildly from the next universe over.
All, that is, except for mine. Mine's right. ;-)
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee
problem,
as well?
Like what?
Like lumping all atheists together in a single bunch with certain
expectations....and beliefs about morals and ethics? I mean, if you guys do
it to Christians....why do you expect/demand that everyone be clear about
the disparity in atheist belief/moral/ethical systems?
Fair's fair.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 06:30:13 AM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee
problem, as well?
Like what?
Like lumping all atheists together in a single bunch with certain
expectations....and beliefs about morals and ethics? I mean, if you guys do
it to Christians....why do you expect/demand that everyone be clear about
the disparity in atheist belief/moral/ethical systems?
Fair's fair.
Atheists aren't running around yapping about having absolute morals.
That's the difference...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:03:44 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:fa7ic1psiljie54g2gnem770hku9g7s0gb@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee
problem, as well?
Like what?
Like lumping all atheists together in a single bunch with certain
expectations....and beliefs about morals and ethics? I mean, if you guys
do
it to Christians....why do you expect/demand that everyone be clear about
the disparity in atheist belief/moral/ethical systems?
Fair's fair.
Atheists aren't running around yapping about having absolute morals.
That's the difference...
Some are.
And you know that very well, Elroy.
Just as you are quite aware that not all Christians lump atheists and
atheism together in one large group of amoral and unethical boobs.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:21:27 AM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee
problem, as well?
Like what?
Like lumping all atheists together in a single bunch with certain
expectations....and beliefs about morals and ethics? I mean, if you guys
do it to Christians....why do you expect/demand that everyone be clear about
the disparity in atheist belief/moral/ethical systems?
Fair's fair.
Atheists aren't running around yapping about having absolute morals.
That's the difference...
Some are.
And you know that very well, Elroy.
Who? Which ones? Name some names if you don't mind, and I'd like
to talk to them, and find out what they mean if they actually claim to
be following some "absolute" moral code...
Just as you are quite aware that not all Christians lump atheists and
atheism together in one large group of amoral and unethical boobs.
That's as it should be, since atheists don't claim to have some
"absolute set" of god-given morals to follow or obey.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 11:45:03 AM |
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 03:05:12 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:0kogc1hmm3rbfb9lndvta0qjmem8i0dr8o@4ax.com...
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so
strongly
enough to think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what
exactly
those teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And
people
do not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Elroy, sweetie, you know better than to ask ME that one. ;-)
However....they can't. Or rather, they CAN, of course, but those outside
whatever sect they espouse can gently (or not so gently) point out that
they
are incorrect; that their idea of what that absolute moral code is just
might be a wee bit incorrect. Or even wildly from the next universe over.
All, that is, except for mine. Mine's right. ;-)
Now, can you see that theists looking at atheists might have a wee
problem,
as well?
Like what?
Like lumping all atheists together in a single bunch with certain
expectations....and beliefs about morals and ethics? I mean, if you guys do
it to Christians....why do you expect/demand that everyone be clear about
the disparity in atheist belief/moral/ethical systems?
Fair's fair.
You're comparing two different things here. Christianity comes with an
inbuilt code of ethics. All Christian sects tell their adherents how
to behave. Atheists do not have an organized moral code and do not
belong to an organisation that promotes one. There is no such thing as
an atheist moral system so how can you expect anyone to stick to one?
Makes no sense.
Some atheists might sign up to certain moral codes (some humanist
organizations have them, I believe). In those cases you'd be right to
judge them by that code.
Mephisto
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
05 Jul 2005 03:53:08 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said wa s moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Ain't that the truth.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 01:53:33 AM |
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On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:36:42 -0500, Elroy Willis wrote
(in article <8mmfc1du3jdehmadr4fnsnamdpmpmv299e@4ax.com>):
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Yup, look at our local crackpot "Christian," Fred
"Godhatesfags/Godhatesamerica" Phelps, he claims to be a good Christian, yet
almost every other Christian around here disagrees with him. Well, sorta,
many agree with *some* of his statements, others agree with other statements
of his.
Mostly, I would have to say, they seem to disagree with Fred's nastiness
towards THEM because they aren't supporting him completely in all of his
statements of belief, which, of course, he gets right out of the bible.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
³At least Evolution doesn't ask you to tithe 10% of your income.³ - RHertz
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:06:13 AM |
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"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody else
gets a vote.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 01:42:52 PM |
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"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:pnbye.3160$3Y3.2687@trnddc09...
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody else
gets a vote.
I'll address some of the things you said at a later time. A thought just
occurred to me though. I was going to use the classic response used by a
Supreme Court Justice (I'm not sure which one.) when asked to define
pornography. He said, "I'm not sure, but I know when I see it." I thought
this approach could apply to a Christian as well until I realized someone
could (and has) mistake *me* for a Christian. What is one to do?
Greywolf
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 02:05:39 PM |
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cj0qcba6es7b4@corp.supernews.com...
"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:pnbye.3160$3Y3.2687@trnddc09...
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody
else gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God,
then the decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again,
nobody else gets a vote.
I'll address some of the things you said at a later time. A thought just
occurred to me though. I was going to use the classic response used by a
Supreme Court Justice (I'm not sure which one.) when asked to define
pornography. He said, "I'm not sure, but I know when I see it." I thought
this approach could apply to a Christian as well until I realized someone
could (and has) mistake *me* for a Christian. What is one to do?
(grin) Well, if they do, it's because you are behaving in a manner that
Christians are SUPPOSED to behave in. You know, honorably, ethically,
morally, kindly, all that? so, say 'thank you'. and have a small chuckle to
yourself. ;-)
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 11:54:36 AM |
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:06:13 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody else
gets a vote.
I think that's a sensible solution to the problem. If nobody can agree
on what precisely Christianity is, then it needs to be down to each
individual to decide for themselves.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were
encouraged to freely follow their own mind when it came to religious
belief, rather than being pushed into a particular sect by their
family or community and labelled. There would still be broad areas of
similar belief, but we could have generalized places of worship for
everyone (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans and Pink Unicornists
mumbling in the same room) and do away with the organized religions
and all of the problems that they cause.
Mephisto
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 12:56:04 PM |
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"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:i5qic1p9qdhf2trkhlkpke078vr118u4p7@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:06:13 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody else
gets a vote.
I think that's a sensible solution to the problem. If nobody can agree
on what precisely Christianity is, then it needs to be down to each
individual to decide for themselves.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were
encouraged to freely follow their own mind when it came to religious
belief, rather than being pushed into a particular sect by their
family or community and labelled. There would still be broad areas of
similar belief, but we could have generalized places of worship for
everyone (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans and Pink Unicornists
mumbling in the same room) and do away with the organized religions
and all of the problems that they cause.
Hey, I'm all for that. (well, the 'encouraged to freely follow their own
minds part, anyway). The problem is, nobody will go along with that. As soon
as someone disagrees with someone else, one will accuse the other of being
led around by the nose and not thinking for himself. And it doesnt' really
matter which one says it, both will think it.
Mephisto
.
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 01:11:04 PM |
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:56:04 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:i5qic1p9qdhf2trkhlkpke078vr118u4p7@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:06:13 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody else
gets a vote.
I think that's a sensible solution to the problem. If nobody can agree
on what precisely Christianity is, then it needs to be down to each
individual to decide for themselves.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were
encouraged to freely follow their own mind when it came to religious
belief, rather than being pushed into a particular sect by their
family or community and labelled. There would still be broad areas of
similar belief, but we could have generalized places of worship for
everyone (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans and Pink Unicornists
mumbling in the same room) and do away with the organized religions
and all of the problems that they cause.
Hey, I'm all for that. (well, the 'encouraged to freely follow their own
minds part, anyway). The problem is, nobody will go along with that.
I think a lot of people would, but the leaders of organized religions
would not. That's precisely why they are a problem. The whole 'I'm
right, you're wrong' thing is unhealthy. They have a vested interest
in maintaining the status quo. Their job is to tell people what to
think.
As soon
as someone disagrees with someone else, one will accuse the other of being
led around by the nose and not thinking for himself. And it doesnt' really
matter which one says it, both will think it.
Does that really matter? People will always disagree and they should
have the freedom to do so. IMO, organized religions have a habit of
trying to force their ideas on people, with negative consequences. If
people were taught to be tolerant of *all* different views rather than
being encouraged to believe that their POV is the right one and all
others should be excluded, we'd all be better off.
Mephisto
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 02:03:46 PM |
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"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:0guic199pbls0imcmlgudj1kkcmqbi6obm@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:56:04 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:i5qic1p9qdhf2trkhlkpke078vr118u4p7@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:06:13 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody
else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then
the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody
else
gets a vote.
I think that's a sensible solution to the problem. If nobody can agree
on what precisely Christianity is, then it needs to be down to each
individual to decide for themselves.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were
encouraged to freely follow their own mind when it came to religious
belief, rather than being pushed into a particular sect by their
family or community and labelled. There would still be broad areas of
similar belief, but we could have generalized places of worship for
everyone (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans and Pink Unicornists
mumbling in the same room) and do away with the organized religions
and all of the problems that they cause.
Hey, I'm all for that. (well, the 'encouraged to freely follow their own
minds part, anyway). The problem is, nobody will go along with that.
I think a lot of people would, but the leaders of organized religions
would not. That's precisely why they are a problem. The whole 'I'm
right, you're wrong' thing is unhealthy. They have a vested interest
in maintaining the status quo. Their job is to tell people what to
think.
As soon
as someone disagrees with someone else, one will accuse the other of being
led around by the nose and not thinking for himself. And it doesnt' really
matter which one says it, both will think it.
Does that really matter? People will always disagree and they should
have the freedom to do so. IMO, organized religions have a habit of
trying to force their ideas on people, with negative consequences. If
people were taught to be tolerant of *all* different views rather than
being encouraged to believe that their POV is the right one and all
others should be excluded, we'd all be better off.
Mephisto
You mean like this?:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates
of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them
worship how, where, or what they may.
.
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 03:00:31 PM |
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DianaC wrote:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to
the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same
privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
I'll only go along with that if you also grant me the right to not
worship at all in the first place.
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 02:31:01 PM |
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On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:03:46 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:0guic199pbls0imcmlgudj1kkcmqbi6obm@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:56:04 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:i5qic1p9qdhf2trkhlkpke078vr118u4p7@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:06:13 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BEEE471D004F284CF0284550@news.central.cox.net...
<snip to>.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Who decides? Well, I tell the folks in alt.religion.christian that this
decision is made by the person claiming the title and God, and nobody
else
gets a vote. Here, of course, since you don't believe in a God, then
the
decision is made by the person claiming the title, and again, nobody
else
gets a vote.
I think that's a sensible solution to the problem. If nobody can agree
on what precisely Christianity is, then it needs to be down to each
individual to decide for themselves.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were
encouraged to freely follow their own mind when it came to religious
belief, rather than being pushed into a particular sect by their
family or community and labelled. There would still be broad areas of
similar belief, but we could have generalized places of worship for
everyone (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans and Pink Unicornists
mumbling in the same room) and do away with the organized religions
and all of the problems that they cause.
Hey, I'm all for that. (well, the 'encouraged to freely follow their own
minds part, anyway). The problem is, nobody will go along with that.
I think a lot of people would, but the leaders of organized religions
would not. That's precisely why they are a problem. The whole 'I'm
right, you're wrong' thing is unhealthy. They have a vested interest
in maintaining the status quo. Their job is to tell people what to
think.
As soon
as someone disagrees with someone else, one will accuse the other of being
led around by the nose and not thinking for himself. And it doesnt' really
matter which one says it, both will think it.
Does that really matter? People will always disagree and they should
have the freedom to do so. IMO, organized religions have a habit of
trying to force their ideas on people, with negative consequences. If
people were taught to be tolerant of *all* different views rather than
being encouraged to believe that their POV is the right one and all
others should be excluded, we'd all be better off.
Mephisto
You mean like this?:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates
of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them
worship how, where, or what they may.
That's a small part of it, but it fails to mention the right not to
worship at all. I think we should encourage people to share their
beliefs and be completely open and tolerant. There are communities
which do this, using things like meditation/silent prayer and
'spiritual singing', without adding any of the tags that religions
have. It should be conducted on an entirely personal level, and have
no meaning or influence beyond that.
Mephisto
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 05:49:47 PM |
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"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:2a3jc1h76qalshcuh4ajr9q2irehn6vefe@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:03:46 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
<snip to>
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the
dictates
of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them
worship how, where, or what they may.
That's a small part of it, but it fails to mention the right not to
worship at all.
That's implicit in the statement. If one is going to allow worship in any
manner, then allowing 'worship in no manner whatsoever' is built in.
<snip to end>
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 06:38:38 AM |
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Harry F. Leopold <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote (in article <8mmfc1du3jdehmadr4fnsnamdpmpmv299e@4ax.com>):
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Yup, look at our local crackpot "Christian," Fred
"Godhatesfags/Godhatesamerica" Phelps, he claims to be a good Christian, yet
almost every other Christian around here disagrees with him. Well, sorta,
many agree with *some* of his statements, others agree with other statements
of his.
Mostly, I would have to say, they seem to disagree with Fred's nastiness
towards THEM because they aren't supporting him completely in all of his
statements of belief, which, of course, he gets right out of the bible.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Each self-proclaimed Christian, of course!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:06:36 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:8s7ic1lilu98t5spjnm3cjoc3h7e1q0nc7@4ax.com...
Harry F. Leopold <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote (in article
<8mmfc1du3jdehmadr4fnsnamdpmpmv299e@4ax.com>):
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough
to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly
those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people
do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Yup, look at our local crackpot "Christian," Fred
"Godhatesfags/Godhatesamerica" Phelps, he claims to be a good Christian,
yet
almost every other Christian around here disagrees with him. Well, sorta,
many agree with *some* of his statements, others agree with other
statements
of his.
Mostly, I would have to say, they seem to disagree with Fred's nastiness
towards THEM because they aren't supporting him completely in all of his
statements of belief, which, of course, he gets right out of the bible.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Each self-proclaimed Christian, of course!
Well, yeah. Precisely that.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:41:16 AM |
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DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Harry F. Leopold <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in alt.atheism
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Each self-proclaimed Christian, of course!
Well, yeah. Precisely that.
That's the bottom line, obviously.
I actually found myself defending Mormonism in my own mind the other
day when I was watching an episode of "Faith Under Fire." One of the
Protestants was claiming that Mormons aren't "true" Christians, and I
found myself thinking that they're just as "true" as any other brand
or sect or cult of Christianity, since all of them are built on a bed
of mythical baloney and a foundation of fictitious fables in the first
place.
The Protestant had the nerve to claim the idea that God is a space man
or alien with an actual human-like body and bones was completely
ridiculous, believe it or not...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
04 Jul 2005 09:18:27 AM |
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On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 06:38:38 -0500, Elroy Willis wrote
(in article <8s7ic1lilu98t5spjnm3cjoc3h7e1q0nc7@4ax.com>):
Harry F. Leopold <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote (in article
<8mmfc1du3jdehmadr4fnsnamdpmpmv299e@4ax.com>):
DianaC <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people
do
not agree.
That's why it's so funny when certain Christians, no matter which sect
or denomination or cult they belong to, say that they believe in
"absolute morals" dictated by the Bible or by Jesus. Since they can't
even agree among themselves what Jesus said was moral or not, how can
they claim that they're following some "absolute moral code" dictated
by the Bible?
Yup, look at our local crackpot "Christian," Fred
"Godhatesfags/Godhatesamerica" Phelps, he claims to be a good Christian,
yet
almost every other Christian around here disagrees with him. Well, sorta,
many agree with *some* of his statements, others agree with other
statements
of his.
Mostly, I would have to say, they seem to disagree with Fred's nastiness
towards THEM because they aren't supporting him completely in all of his
statements of belief, which, of course, he gets right out of the bible.
So I really have to wonder just who decides who is, and who is not, a
"Christian"?
Each self-proclaimed Christian, of course!
Exactly, each self-proclaimed Christian, of course.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu Supporter
.
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 10:02:48 AM |
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DianaC wrote:
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>
At some point the Christian community is going to have to sit down and
make out some sort of universal guidelines by which "all" Christians would
have to abide by or else get drummed out of chuch on one's ear.
You're kidding, right?
At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (includin g members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum
member goes goofy with it, there *are* no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.
Greywolf
Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.
I have seen, right here in AA, atheists who claim that simply BEING atheist
confers upon the non-believer some sort of magical logical faculties, some
superior moral code, that would, if all people would just join this
non-belief, solve all the world's ills.
I don't believe you have seen any such thing. I challenge
you to produce a single example of this. Just one. You
know you can't do it. You are blatantly false witnessing
and doing so on the Sabbath. Never mind that it is in
the service of you changing the subject to atheists.
Are you doing this to demonstrate your contempt
for your religion?
Now, you, an atheist, may say to me that 'atheism' means only a lack of
belief in god, and thus atheists are not bound by a specific moral
code...and that I, a theist, have no right to expect atheists to abide by
any set of ethical codes, no matter who tells me that there is such a code.
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another,
So a Christian is someone who identifies with the teachings
of Jesus in some form or another...
and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian.
....and call themselves Christian? And you get this
definition...where?
When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate.
And I thought "God" was not the author of confussion.
And people do
not agree.
So I, a theist, may say to you that you have no right to expect Christians
to abide by a specific set of ethical and moral codes that YOU have set up
for them.
No right? On the contrary, I think he has every right
to do that if it suits him.
The most you can do, for anybody (atheist OR theist) is attempt to
figure out what the specific ethical code is that that person is supposed to
abide by, and then watch to see if their actions reflect the code THEY
claim. Not the one you claim for them.
So Hitler was perfectly acceptable to you huh.
So you treat Christians with contempt....and you have a real problem, I
suppose, when Christians lump all atheists together and call them all
immoral and unethical....and I'll bet the irony of that just whooshes right
over you.
Attacking others won't make your argument look any
better. Neither will changing the subject to atheists
whenever you don't wish an issue be discussed.
.
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| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One! |
03 Jul 2005 09:49:03 PM |
|
|
"Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1120402968.904533.194480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
DianaC wrote:
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>
At some point the Christian community is going to have to sit down and
make out some sort of universal guidelines by which "all" Christians
would
have to abide by or else get drummed out of chuch on one's ear.
You're kidding, right?
At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (includin g members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other
forum
member goes goofy with it, there *are* no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the
best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.
Greywolf
Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.
I have seen, right here in AA, atheists who claim that simply BEING
atheist
confers upon the non-believer some sort of magical logical faculties,
some
superior moral code, that would, if all people would just join this
non-belief, solve all the world's ills.
I don't believe you have seen any such thing. I challenge
you to produce a single example of this. Just one. You
know you can't do it. You are blatantly false witnessing
and doing so on the Sabbath. Never mind that it is in
the service of you changing the subject to atheists.
Are you doing this to demonstrate your contempt
for your religion?
(sigh) How many do you want? Will one do? Would you prefer four or more? If
I produce ONE, would you accept it or would you pick it apart to somehow
prove that the writer didn't REALLY say what he did say?
However, just for you, I gave myself a three minute time limit to find one,
just one, quote from an atheist saying that atheists are superior, have a
better moral or ethical code, or something similar. So I entered a couple of
search words (atheist, superior) into google, and voila', the first thing I
find is a whole thread with the title "Why True atheists are far superior to
any theist". .
....oh, and a quote by someone named 'funboy' who described an incident in
which he was shot at in a convenience store: "btw, what really amazed me was
how quickly i realized the situation, how
quickly i reacted & how clear & purposeful my thoughts were throughout
the whole ordeal
looking back on it, i feel that if i was a xtian, i would have frozen & been
shot dead " As in, being an atheist was what kept him alive, whereas being
a theist would have killed him. (shrug)
As for "contempt for my religion"...far from it. I admire Christians who
honestly work at BEING Christian...who strive to be better people. I'm just
quite aware that being Christian doesn't automatically elevate one to the
level of alien being, or saint....a Christian is a person JUST LIKE YOU.
With all the same worries, the same problems, the same situations to deal
with, and exactly the same temptations. JUST like you.
Now, you, an atheist, may say to me that 'atheism' means only a lack of
belief in god, and thus atheists are not bound by a specific moral
code...and that I, a theist, have no right to expect atheists to abide by
any set of ethical codes, no matter who tells me that there is such a
code.
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY
thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another,
So a Christian is someone who identifies with the teachings
of Jesus in some form or another...
I think that all Christians would agree with that. They couldn't exactly
call themselves CHRISTians if they didn't identify one way or another with
the teachings of Jesus CHRIST, now, would they? Whatever it is they think
they are.
and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian.
...and call themselves Christian? And you get this
definition...where?
From the dictionary, actually.
Chris·tian (krschn)
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based
on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate.
And I thought "God" was not the author of confussion.
Odd.
It seems like a simple enough definition to me.
And people do
not agree.
So I, a theist, may say to you that you have no right to expect
Christians
to abide by a specific set of ethical and moral codes that YOU have set
up
for them.
No right? On the contrary, I think he has every right
to do that if it suits him.
OK....he has no right to figure that anybody would agree with him,
especially the Christian he may be talking to at the moment. ;-)
The most you can do, for anybody (atheist OR theist) is attempt to
figure out what the specific ethical code is that that person is supposed
to
abide by, and then watch to see if their actions reflect the code THEY
claim. Not the one you claim for them.
So Hitler was perfectly acceptable to you huh.
Oh, goodie, the Hitler card.....
Look. "Christian" is a classification of belief, not a moral judgment. There
are a whole BUNCH of Christians that are not good people, and whose actions
are 'not acceptable' to any person of sanity. There are a whole bunch of
atheists one can say the same thing about. Calling someone a Christian is
not confering sainthood upon him; it's simply giving a hint as to what he
SAYS he believes.
So you treat Christians with contempt....and you have a real problem, I
suppose, when Christians lump all atheists together and call them all
immoral and unethical....and I'll bet the irony of that just whooshes
right
over you.
Attacking others won't make your argument look any
better. Neither will changing the subject to atheists
whenever you don't wish an issue be discussed.
I wasn't doing any attacking here. You were. Notice; you called ME a liar,
not vice versa, you used argumentum ad Nazium fallacy, I didn't, and you are
raising the strawman here, I didn't. Get a grip.
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