If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Greywolf"
Date:	01 Jul 2005 12:25:55 PM
Object:	If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that Atheists
are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and disdain - even
towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian warning teenagers to stay
away from this forum and insinuating that this place is a hotbed of violence
and murder. (I *do* understand that the dude is a little off in his
thinking, but the same basic sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms,
by other Christian visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum
members to openly wonder: "Just what in the Hell *is* a Christian? I've
often told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a
Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it
astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can
be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?
Greywolf
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	01 Jul 2005 02:11:05 PM

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that Atheists
are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and disdain - even
towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian warning teenagers to
stay away from this forum and insinuating that this place is a hotbed of
violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the dude is a little off in
his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is expressed, albeit in other
forms, by other Christian visitors to the forum as well.) This has led
some forum members to openly wonder: "Just what in the Hell *is* a
Christian? I've often told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to
call yourself a Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent
myself, I find it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and
mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis
of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.
However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	03 Jul 2005 04:35:46 AM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over
whether Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring
that Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that
this place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand
that the dude is a little off in his thinking, but the same basic
sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian
visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum members to
openly wonder: "Just what in the Hell *is* a Christian? I've often
told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a
Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find
it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited
Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of
Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Better than Tom Cruise, that's for sure, and definitely much better than
Mel Gibson, (but then again, a 4 year old could act better than both !)
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn

.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	01 Jul 2005 03:16:25 PM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and disdain -
even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian warning teenagers
to stay away from this forum and insinuating that this place is a hotbed
of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the dude is a little
"off" in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is expressed, albeit
in other forms, by other Christian visitors to the forum as well.) This
has led some forum members to openly wonder: "Just what in the hell *is*
a Christian? I've often told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to
call yourself a Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent
myself, I find it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and
mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis
of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest as
possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of course, many
Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I look around and see
Christians act in the most despicable manner possible, I ask myself, "How in
the hell can these people *possibly* consider themselves Christians?" I'll
give you an illustration of what I mean: Before my home burned down, someone
stole *two* Husqvarna chainsaws from right out of my shed. I was drinking
very heavily at the time and suffering from severe depression. The thief
thus knew that, for all intents and purposes, I was incapacitated. As it so
happened, however, I *saw* who stole the chainsaws because I happened to
catch a glimpse of him turning out of my driveway. I later told this
individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing* that he was a hardcore
Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my chainsaws was a Christian."
His response was, "Probably." (By this time he already had an inkling that I
knew that he was the thief ) I then said, "I guess the guy never read that
passage in the Bible where it says, "Thou Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take
long for this hypocrite to respond. He simply said, "Well, no one's
perfect." THAT is the problem I have with Christians. They're hypocrites!
(among other things) They don't abide by the tenets of their own faith. But
what do you tell these people? That they're *not* Christians? I don't know.
It is why I submitted the post.
Greywolf
.

User: "Grogs"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	01 Jul 2005 04:30:16 PM

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com:

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over
whether Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring
that Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that
this place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand
that the dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic
sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian
visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum members to
openly wonder: "Just what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often
told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a
Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I
find it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited
Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of
Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest
as possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of
course, many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I
look around and see Christians act in the most despicable manner
possible, I ask myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly*
consider themselves Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what
I mean: Before my home burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna
chainsaws from right out of my shed. I was drinking very heavily at
the time and suffering from severe depression. The thief thus knew
that, for all intents and purposes, I was incapacitated. As it so
happened, however, I *saw* who stole the chainsaws because I happened
to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my driveway. I later told
this individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing* that he was a
hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my chainsaws was
a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By this time he already
had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I then said, "I
guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it says,
"Thou Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to
respond. He simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem
I have with Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They
don't abide by the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell
these people? That they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I
submitted the post.

Personally, I think this is a symptom of the 'faith, not acts' philosophy
that Paul harps on so much in the epistles. You don't get into Heaven by
doing good works, only by believing in Jesus Christ and accepting the
Holy Spirit. Of course, as the philosophy goes, once you've accepted the
Holy Spirit, you won't *want* to sin anymore, and thus good works will
follow. This fellow you're writing about seems to be a good example of
how this doesn't work in practice. According to the views of
Chrisitianity I'm familiar with, so long as he repents at some point
before he dies, he's good to go.
As for general conduct among Chrisitians, I agree that for the most part,
we only notice the vocal minority that like to Evangelize in public.
Some of them exude a 'holier than thou, how dare *you* question my
Christianity' attitude about them. For example, I was watching Jerry
Falwell doing an interview a few months back during the Presidential
campaign. He was railing on Kerry and his supporters, talking about what
morally corrupt people they were, etc. To his credit, the interviewer (I
believe it was Anderson Cooper on CNN) said "That doesn't seem like a
particularly Christian attitude, Reverend." Falwell's reply was
something along the lines of "How dare you try and tell me how a
Christian should act!"

Greywolf

User: "Katt"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	02 Jul 2005 03:28:29 PM

"Grogs" <grogs@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96867FCA77B6Dgrogsnomailcom@

Of course, as the philosophy goes, once you've accepted the
Holy Spirit, you won't *want* to sin anymore, and thus good works will
follow. This fellow you're writing about seems to be a good example of
how this doesn't work in practice. According to the views of
Chrisitianity I'm familiar with, so long as he repents at some point
before he dies, he's good to go.

This is also an example of how Xianity has been subject to Darwinian
evolution over the centuries: the virus spreads better with this mutation
than without it. Without it, people who had led massively anti-social
lives -- violent, dissolute, greedy, ambitious, destructive, power-hungry,
amoral, 'sinful' lives -- would necessarily oppose (or at the very least
ignore) a religion that promised nothing but suffering for them in a
'hereafter'. And, since many of those people will be massively wealthy and
hugely powerful, such harsh attitudes will hardly benefit the Church's
financial and political standing, will they...? So we get the famous 'Last
Minute' Clause creeping into the meme-pool: you can kill and rape and maim
and steal as much as you like, for as long as you like; and providing that
you just 'honestly repent' at some point (<*cough*> and leave your wealth to
the Church <*cough*>) then you'll be fine...
Yup, it's touches like that that make a 'great religion'...!!
Katt.
.

User: "raven1"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	01 Jul 2005 07:50:11 PM

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:30:16 -0000, Grogs <grogs@nomail.com> wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com:

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over
whether Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring
that Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that
this place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand
that the dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic
sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian
visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum members to
openly wonder: "Just what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often
told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a
Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I
find it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited
Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of
Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest
as possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of
course, many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I
look around and see Christians act in the most despicable manner
possible, I ask myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly*
consider themselves Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what
I mean: Before my home burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna
chainsaws from right out of my shed. I was drinking very heavily at
the time and suffering from severe depression. The thief thus knew
that, for all intents and purposes, I was incapacitated. As it so
happened, however, I *saw* who stole the chainsaws because I happened
to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my driveway. I later told
this individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing* that he was a
hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my chainsaws was
a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By this time he already
had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I then said, "I
guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it says,
"Thou Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to
respond. He simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem
I have with Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They
don't abide by the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell
these people? That they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I
submitted the post.

Personally, I think this is a symptom of the 'faith, not acts' philosophy
that Paul harps on so much in the epistles.

Which is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus in the three
synoptic gospels, where acts are continually emphasized.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	02 Jul 2005 03:45:37 AM

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that this
place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the
dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is
expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian visitors to the
forum as well.) This has led some forum members to openly wonder: "Just
what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often told belligerent
Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a Christian, act like
one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it astonishing to see
how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such
behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest as
possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of course,
many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I look around
and see Christians act in the most despicable manner possible, I ask
myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly* consider themselves
Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what I mean: Before my home
burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna chainsaws from right out of my
shed. I was drinking very heavily at the time and suffering from severe
depression. The thief thus knew that, for all intents and purposes, I was
incapacitated. As it so happened, however, I *saw* who stole the chainsaws
because I happened to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my driveway.
I later told this individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing* that
he was a hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my
chainsaws was a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By this time he
already had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I then said, "I
guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it says, "Thou
Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to respond. He
simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem I have with
Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They don't abide by
the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell these people? That
they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I submitted the post.

Greywolf

Greywolf, you have, in this post, just said that many Christians 'conduct
themselves admirably'. Yet you don't judge Christianity as a whole by THEM,
you condemn the entire group because of one thief, and call all of them
hypocrites.
Now, I'm not going to tell you that a great many Christians are not
hypocrites. However, is it fair of you to condemn all Christians as such
because a few are, even when you yourself have mentioned that some are
'admirable'?
How fair is it, after all, to blame the belief system for the actions of
those who BREAK ITS RULES??
.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	02 Jul 2005 09:23:58 PM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:B5oxe.5877$mr4.650@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that
this place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that
the dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic
sentiment is expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian
visitors to the forum as well.) This has led some forum members to
openly wonder: "Just what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often told
belligerent Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a Christian,
act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it
astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians
can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest as
possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of course,
many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I look around
and see Christians act in the most despicable manner possible, I ask
myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly* consider themselves
Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what I mean: Before my home
burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna chainsaws from right out of my
shed. I was drinking very heavily at the time and suffering from severe
depression. The thief thus knew that, for all intents and purposes, I was
incapacitated. As it so happened, however, I *saw* who stole the
chainsaws because I happened to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my
driveway. I later told this individual of the theft and said to him
(*knowing* that he was a hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who
stole my chainsaws was a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By
this time he already had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I
then said, "I guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it
says, "Thou Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to
respond. He simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem I
have with Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They don't
abide by the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell these
people? That they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I
submitted the post.

Greywolf

Greywolf, you have, in this post, just said that many Christians 'conduct
themselves admirably'. Yet you don't judge Christianity as a whole by
THEM, you condemn the entire group because of one thief, and call all of
them hypocrites.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that a great many Christians are not
hypocrites. However, is it fair of you to condemn all Christians as such
because a few are, even when you yourself have mentioned that some are
'admirable'?

How fair is it, after all, to blame the belief system for the actions of
those who BREAK ITS RULES??

Good point. And one that I have problems with. On the one hand I see
Christians who carry themselves in just the way I expect "good" Christians
to behave. On the other hand, you have my "friend" in the above. I could not
*possibly*convince him he isn't a Christian. He would just tell me he isn't
a "perfect" Christian and leave it at that. Couple his behavior and attitude
with a downright hostility - even hatred- towards atheists and what do you
end up with? Christians who feel its okay to steal from atheists (after all,
we're "evil" aren't we?) or worse, and move on. (Oh, by the way, he never
returned my saws.) Not to belabor the point, but most Christians *I* know
aren't worth a hill of beans. They wrap themselves in their bible (which
precious few of them even bother to read, by the way) and then act in the
most un-Christian-like manner possible. I can see why you chide me for
lumping together the good and the bad together and labeling the final
product "bad." But my conclusions are based on my dealings with the real,
every-day Christians who live in my area. Having said all that, I revert
back to the comment I made about Christians who act admirably. I *respect*
people like that. Unfortunately there aren't enough of them (at least not
around here) to make me like Christians very much. They cannot allow
themselves to consider even the *possibility* that they're wrong, yet
continue to insist that they are right. What's with that?
Greywolf
.

User: "Mephisto"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 02:49:20 PM

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 03:45:37 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that this
place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the
dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is
expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian visitors to the
forum as well.) This has led some forum members to openly wonder: "Just
what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often told belligerent
Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a Christian, act like
one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it astonishing to see
how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such
behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest as
possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of course,
many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I look around
and see Christians act in the most despicable manner possible, I ask
myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly* consider themselves
Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what I mean: Before my home
burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna chainsaws from right out of my
shed. I was drinking very heavily at the time and suffering from severe
depression. The thief thus knew that, for all intents and purposes, I was
incapacitated. As it so happened, however, I *saw* who stole the chainsaws
because I happened to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my driveway.
I later told this individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing* that
he was a hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my
chainsaws was a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By this time he
already had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I then said, "I
guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it says, "Thou
Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to respond. He
simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem I have with
Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They don't abide by
the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell these people? That
they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I submitted the post.

Greywolf

Greywolf, you have, in this post, just said that many Christians 'conduct
themselves admirably'. Yet you don't judge Christianity as a whole by THEM,
you condemn the entire group because of one thief, and call all of them
hypocrites.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that a great many Christians are not
hypocrites. However, is it fair of you to condemn all Christians as such
because a few are, even when you yourself have mentioned that some are
'admirable'?

How fair is it, after all, to blame the belief system for the actions of
those who BREAK ITS RULES??

IMO, it's a *majority* of Christians who break their own rules and are
therefore hypocrites. Only a very tiny minority are really willing to
practice what they preach, and give up everything to help others.
They're the ones out in places like Africa and Bangladesh who sold
everything they had to devote themselves to helping the poor; or who
start shelters for homeless people; or who spend their time raising
money for charitable causes rather than for themselves. I have an
immense respect for those people, just as I do atheists who do the
same thing.
While I don't believe that most Christians are in any way evil (or
followers of any other religion for that matter), I do find it hard
not to regard the whole religion as being essentially hypocritical
when 99.9%+ of its adherents ignore the teachings of the man they
named the religion after.
Mephisto
.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 06:16:09 PM

"Mephisto" <mephisto@go.away> wrote in message
news:h5iic1hel2css378mijushbgabj73aprcu@4ax.com...

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 03:45:37 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11caniq8kvv3579@corp.supernews.com...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over
whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that
this
place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the
dude is a little "off" in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment
is
expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian visitors to the
forum as well.) This has led some forum members to openly wonder:
"Just
what in the hell *is* a Christian? I've often told belligerent
Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a Christian, act like
one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it astonishing to
see
how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such
behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

Well for starters, one would expect the typical Christian to as honest
as
possible, be devoid of malice, and have loads of integrity. Of course,
many Christians *do* conduct themselves admirably. But when I look
around
and see Christians act in the most despicable manner possible, I ask
myself, "How in the hell can these people *possibly* consider themselves
Christians?" I'll give you an illustration of what I mean: Before my
home
burned down, someone stole *two* Husqvarna chainsaws from right out of
my
shed. I was drinking very heavily at the time and suffering from severe
depression. The thief thus knew that, for all intents and purposes, I
was
incapacitated. As it so happened, however, I *saw* who stole the
chainsaws
because I happened to catch a glimpse of him turning out of my
driveway.
I later told this individual of the theft and said to him (*knowing*
that
he was a hardcore Christian) that, "I'll bet the guy who stole my
chainsaws was a Christian." His response was, "Probably." (By this time
he
already had an inkling that I knew that he was the thief ) I then said,
"I
guess the guy never read that passage in the Bible where it says, "Thou
Shalt Not STEAL!" It didn't take long for this hypocrite to respond. He
simply said, "Well, no one's perfect." THAT is the problem I have with
Christians. They're hypocrites! (among other things) They don't abide by
the tenets of their own faith. But what do you tell these people? That
they're *not* Christians? I don't know. It is why I submitted the post.

Greywolf

Greywolf, you have, in this post, just said that many Christians 'conduct
themselves admirably'. Yet you don't judge Christianity as a whole by
THEM,
you condemn the entire group because of one thief, and call all of them
hypocrites.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that a great many Christians are not
hypocrites. However, is it fair of you to condemn all Christians as such
because a few are, even when you yourself have mentioned that some are
'admirable'?

How fair is it, after all, to blame the belief system for the actions of
those who BREAK ITS RULES??

IMO, it's a *majority* of Christians who break their own rules and are
therefore hypocrites. Only a very tiny minority are really willing to
practice what they preach, and give up everything to help others.
They're the ones out in places like Africa and Bangladesh who sold
everything they had to devote themselves to helping the poor; or who
start shelters for homeless people; or who spend their time raising
money for charitable causes rather than for themselves. I have an
immense respect for those people, just as I do atheists who do the
same thing.

While I don't believe that most Christians are in any way evil (or
followers of any other religion for that matter), I do find it hard
not to regard the whole religion as being essentially hypocritical
when 99.9%+ of its adherents ignore the teachings of the man they
named the religion after.

Mephisto

Amen to that!
Greywolf
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	02 Jul 2005 03:41:39 AM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and disdain -
even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian warning teenagers
to stay away from this forum and insinuating that this place is a hotbed
of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the dude is a little off
in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is expressed, albeit in
other forms, by other Christian visitors to the forum as well.) This has
led some forum members to openly wonder: "Just what in the Hell *is* a
Christian? I've often told belligerent Christians, "If you're going to
call yourself a Christian, act like one!" Being a bit of a belligerent
myself, I find it astonishing to see how hostile, hateful, and
mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such behavior the very antithesis
of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

I dunno....my opinion of what a Christian IS gets me in trouble, considering
that I claim that 'Christian' pretty much 'anybody who thinks he is one and
says so'.
Whether or not he is a GOOD Christian rather depends upon whether he is
actually paying attention to the rules of whatever sect he espouses.
Which may or may not have anything to do with whether he is a good person.
So.....A Christian acts like...whatever he acts like. Rather like Hindus and
Budhists and Muslims and atheists and agnostics and....you know, people.
.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	02 Jul 2005 09:38:00 PM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:T1oxe.5876$mr4.5706@trnddc05...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:Z9cxe.8$mr4.7@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11cadgk7g1cv9a6@corp.supernews.com...

It's all right here in this forum. You have people arguing over whether
Hitler was a Christian or not. You have Christians declaring that
Atheists are "evil." You have Christians exhibiting disgust and
disdain - even towards agnostics! You have at least one Christian
warning teenagers to stay away from this forum and insinuating that this
place is a hotbed of violence and murder. (I *do* understand that the
dude is a little off in his thinking, but the same basic sentiment is
expressed, albeit in other forms, by other Christian visitors to the
forum as well.) This has led some forum members to openly wonder: "Just
what in the Hell *is* a Christian? I've often told belligerent
Christians, "If you're going to call yourself a Christian, act like
one!" Being a bit of a belligerent myself, I find it astonishing to see
how hostile, hateful, and mean-spirited Christians can be. Isn't such
behavior the very antithesis of Christian thinking?

Greywolf

Good question.

However, it's a question you should answer, too. What is a Christian
supposed to act like?

I dunno....my opinion of what a Christian IS gets me in trouble,
considering that I claim that 'Christian' pretty much 'anybody who thinks
he is one and says so'.

Whether or not he is a GOOD Christian rather depends upon whether he is
actually paying attention to the rules of whatever sect he espouses.

Which may or may not have anything to do with whether he is a good person.

So.....A Christian acts like...whatever he acts like. Rather like Hindus
and Budhists and Muslims and atheists and agnostics and....you know,
people.

At some point the Christian community is going to have to sit down and make
out some sort of universal guidelines by which "all" Christians would have
to abide by or else get drummed out of chuch on one's ear. At this point in
time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for nothing! All sorts
of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit under it's umbrella. Till
then, I'll just keep treating Christians the way I have in recent times:
with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum member goes goofy with it,
there *are* no guidelines by which Atheists must abide. I, for one, am just
trying to be a "good" person in the best sense possible sense of the word.
I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	03 Jul 2005 04:13:34 AM

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum
member goes goofy with it, there *are* no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.
I have seen, right here in AA, atheists who claim that simply BEING atheist
confers upon the non-believer some sort of magical logical faculties, some
superior moral code, that would, if all people would just join this
non-belief, solve all the world's ills.
Now, you, an atheist, may say to me that 'atheism' means only a lack of
belief in god, and thus atheists are not bound by a specific moral
code...and that I, a theist, have no right to expect atheists to abide by
any set of ethical codes, no matter who tells me that there is such a code.
Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the teachings
of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly enough to
think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what exactly those
teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate. And people do
not agree.
So I, a theist, may say to you that you have no right to expect Christians
to abide by a specific set of ethical and moral codes that YOU have set up
for them. The most you can do, for anybody (atheist OR theist) is attempt to
figure out what the specific ethical code is that that person is supposed to
abide by, and then watch to see if their actions reflect the code THEY
claim. Not the one you claim for them.
So you treat Christians with contempt....and you have a real problem, I
suppose, when Christians lump all atheists together and call them all
immoral and unethical....and I'll bet the irony of that just whooshes right
over you.
.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 05:19:47 AM

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:OBJxe.6164$mr4.2763@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.

I have seen, right here in AA, atheists who claim that simply BEING
atheist confers upon the non-believer some sort of magical logical
faculties, some superior moral code, that would, if all people would just
join this non-belief, solve all the world's ills.

Now, you, an atheist, may say to me that 'atheism' means only a lack of
belief in god, and thus atheists are not bound by a specific moral
code...and that I, a theist, have no right to expect atheists to abide by
any set of ethical codes, no matter who tells me that there is such a
code.

Yet you do not see the irony in your own expectations here; the ONLY thing
that all Christians have in common is that they identify with the
teachings of one Jesus Christ in some form or another, and do so strongly
enough to think of themselves AS Christian. When you get down to what
exactly those teachings ARE, though....that's a matter for intense debate.
And people do not agree.

So I, a theist, may say to you that you have no right to expect Christians
to abide by a specific set of ethical and moral codes that YOU have set
up for them. The most you can do, for anybody (atheist OR theist) is
attempt to figure out what the specific ethical code is that that person
is supposed to abide by, and then watch to see if their actions reflect
the code THEY claim. Not the one you claim for them.

So you treat Christians with contempt....and you have a real problem, I
suppose, when Christians lump all atheists together and call them all
immoral and unethical....and I'll bet the irony of that just whooshes
right over you.

I am going to be more careful with my words because you strike me as
being a "good-hearted" person. Therefore, I'll save my disdain and sarcasm
for another time.
You asked me if I was kidding about the "Church" setting down some
stringent guidelines on how Christians should conduct themselves. I wasn't.
Right now the "Church" is a mish-mash of wildly divergent and competing
points of view? How can someone like me differentiate between a Christian
like you, for example, and say, a KKK Christian. I *do* know that there's a
huge difference, of course. But in practical terms, you're *both*
Christians. The KKK Christian will defend his "Christianity" to the death,
and I suppose you would too if pushed to it. So what does an "outsider" like
myself to do? There *has* to be more uniformity within the Church otherwise
you have a lot of nothing. Which is why I stated that the term Christian is
"meaningless."
You admit yourself that the Christian community is at odds with itself
when it comes to what should be expected of a Christian. You write that,
"there is no specific and identifiable moral code by which Christians must
abide that is not argued about by other Christians." That's a step in the
right direction. When you Christians finally come to an agreement, you will
at least be a cohesive unit and be far more recognizable than you are now. I
also believe that you should cast out people who don't "toe the line." I am
not being mean here, I'm being practical. And I think you know what I mean.
The argument that all the different denominations one finds in
Christendom share a belief in the teachings of Jesus means very little
because you all interpret those teachings differently. (As an aside here, I
have to tell you I laughed so hard when a friend of mine took me to a church
where drinking wine and dancing were considered to be "sins." I told my
friend, "Do you know what Jesus' first miracle was ? (Keep in mind, I don't
believe in "miracles.") He wasn't sure, so I told him. "It was the changing
of water into wine at a wedding feast (where I bet there were some mean
dancing going on) in Cana." See what I mean. That's crazy Christianity to
me.
Which brings me to the biggest gulf imaginable between an atheist and a
hardcore Christian: If given sufficient proof, I *could* admit to the
existence of God. The hardcore Christian, on the other hand, is incapable of
admitting there is no God of the Bible. What's the problem? The hardcore
Christian will not even admit to the *possibility* that he or she is wrong
in this regard. And the reason why the hardcore Christian is incapable of
that is due to a phenomenon that Ben Goren turned me onto. Its called
"cognitive dissonance." This mental brainstorm also explains, for example,
why good Christian Nazis could load Jews into cattle cars and ship them off
to Auschwitz and yet not conceive that what they were doing was *that*
wrong. (If you're interested, just use your search engine to go to search
this site: The 2001 principle - Cognitive Dissonance)
Finally when I said I treat Christians with "contempt," I may have been
a little too harsh. I treat *most* Christians with contempt now because of
the way I have been treated by them in recent times. (And the chainsaw theft
incident is just the tip of the iceberg.) I should also add that because of
my conduct and demeanor, I have on a number of occasions been told, "You're
really a Christian, you just don't know it." And I absolutely resent it.
These Christians can't get it through their heads that I am a "moral
atheist." *No* group of individuals has a lock on morality.
Greywolf
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 02:33:59 PM

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11chhnpfp77m945@corp.supernews.com...

"DianaC" <dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote in message
news:OBJxe.6164$mr4.2763@trnddc05...

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

I am going to be more careful with my words because you strike me as
being a "good-hearted" person. Therefore, I'll save my disdain and sarcasm
for another time.

I appreciate that. Really. :)

You asked me if I was kidding about the "Church" setting down some
stringent guidelines on how Christians should conduct themselves. I
wasn't. Right now the "Church" is a mish-mash of wildly divergent and
competing points of view? How can someone like me differentiate between a
Christian like you, for example, and say, a KKK Christian. I *do* know
that there's a huge difference, of course. But in practical terms, you're
*both* Christians.

Yep. Damn it, but.....yep. That doesn't make us both good PEOPLE, though.

The KKK Christian will defend his "Christianity" to the death, and I
suppose you would too if pushed to it. So what does an "outsider" like
myself to do? There *has* to be more uniformity within the Church
otherwise you have a lot of nothing. Which is why I stated that the term
Christian is "meaningless."

No, it has meaning....the way 'atheist' has meaning. It is a simple
classification of a very broad belief.

You admit yourself that the Christian community is at odds with itself
when it comes to what should be expected of a Christian. You write that,
"there is no specific and identifiable moral code by which Christians must
abide that is not argued about by other Christians." That's a step in the
right direction. When you Christians finally come to an agreement, you
will at least be a cohesive unit and be far more recognizable than you are
now. I also believe that you should cast out people who don't "toe the
line." I am not being mean here, I'm being practical. And I think you know
what I mean.

Yes. Excommunication is alive and well.....but all that does is kick someone
out of a specific organization, not out of the belief itself. It doesn't
alter the beliefs of the one being excumunicated, does it? Mostly, if the
one being kicked out still believes, it just means that a new sect of
Christianity starts. Or weren't you aware of exactly WHY Christianity has so
many different sects within it?

The argument that all the different denominations one finds in
Christendom share a belief in the teachings of Jesus means very little
because you all interpret those teachings differently. (As an aside here,
I have to tell you I laughed so hard when a friend of mine took me to a
church where drinking wine and dancing were considered to be "sins." I
told my friend, "Do you know what Jesus' first miracle was ? (Keep in
mind, I don't believe in "miracles.") He wasn't sure, so I told him. "It
was the changing of water into wine at a wedding feast (where I bet there
were some mean dancing going on) in Cana." See what I mean. That's crazy
Christianity to me.

The second you decide that YOU know what the 'teachings of Jesus are' and
that your interpretation of them should apply to everybody else who believes
in them, you are going beyond the definition of "Christian". Christians
themselves do that all the time to each other. Doesn't work for them,
either....but before you start considering that I'm a bit 'fluffy' about my
own beliefs, I'm not. I'm a Christian. I'm a Mormon. I'm RIGHT...and
everybody else is wrong. They are Christians, yes, but all wrong.
(grin...yes, I know exactly what I just said...and appreciate the irony
quite well, thank you very much. )

Which brings me to the biggest gulf imaginable between an atheist and
a hardcore Christian: If given sufficient proof, I *could* admit to the
existence of God.

? Define 'sufficient proof'?

The hardcore Christian, on the other hand, is incapable of admitting there
is no God of the Bible. What's the problem? The hardcore Christian will
not even admit to the *possibility* that he or she is wrong in this
regard. And the reason why the hardcore Christian is incapable of that is
due to a phenomenon that Ben Goren turned me onto. Its called "cognitive
dissonance." This mental brainstorm also explains, for example, why good
Christian Nazis could load Jews into cattle cars and ship them off to
Auschwitz and yet not conceive that what they were doing was *that* wrong.
(If you're interested, just use your search engine to go to search this
site: The 2001 principle - Cognitive Dissonance)

I"m aware of what cognitive dissonance is. For crying out loud, Greywolf,
how many times do you think that term has been used on me? (Grin)

Finally when I said I treat Christians with "contempt," I may have been
a little too harsh. I treat *most* Christians with contempt now because of
the way I have been treated by them in recent times. (And the chainsaw
theft incident is just the tip of the iceberg.) I should also add that
because of my conduct and demeanor, I have on a number of occasions been
told, "You're really a Christian, you just don't know it." And I
absolutely resent it. These Christians can't get it through their heads
that I am a "moral atheist." *No* group of individuals has a lock on
morality.

No. They don't. And what those people really mean when they say you are 'a
Christian, you just don't know it' is that they wish you were a Christian
because it would be nice to have someone actually walk the walk.
.

User: "Darrell Stec"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	03 Jul 2005 05:20:23 PM

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum
member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful man,
Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the gospels
that Jesus is supposed to have said?
--
Later,
Darrell Stec

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 02:50:47 AM

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum
member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the
best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful man,
Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the gospels
that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?
.

User: "Darrell Stec"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	05 Jul 2005 08:02:52 PM

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 10:50 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK)
sit under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians
the way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other
forum member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which
Atheists must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person
in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man, Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Because he claims the future of your immortal soul depends upon believing in
what he says (that is what believe on Jesus means). If one can't know what
he says then god is using trickery and is evil, what you call the devil.
Will the real god please stand up.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	05 Jul 2005 11:06:21 PM

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3j07bdFn2l8nU7@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 10:50 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK)
sit under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating
Christians
the way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other
forum member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which
Atheists must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person
in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man, Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Because he claims the future of your immortal soul depends upon believing
in
what he says (that is what believe on Jesus means). If one can't know
what
he says then god is using trickery and is evil, what you call the devil.
Will the real god please stand up.

Oh, there are so many things wrong with this statement.....
.

User: "Darrell Stec"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	06 Jul 2005 08:04:10 AM

After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 05 July 2005 7:06 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3j07bdFn2l8nU7@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 10:50 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK)
sit under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating
Christians
the way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some
other forum member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by
which Atheists must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good"
person in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man, Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Because he claims the future of your immortal soul depends upon believing
in
what he says (that is what believe on Jesus means). If one can't know
what
he says then god is using trickery and is evil, what you call the devil.
Will the real god please stand up.

Oh, there are so many things wrong with this statement.....

Perhaps you can start with mentioning 10 or 20. Your answer was rather
vague.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	06 Jul 2005 01:16:26 PM

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3j1hjqFnkvbtU1@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Tuesday 05 July 2005 7:06 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3j07bdFn2l8nU7@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 10:50 pm
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the
KKK)
sit under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating
Christians
the way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some
other forum member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by
which Atheists must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a
"good"
person in the best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific
and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same
omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man, Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Because he claims the future of your immortal soul depends upon
believing
in
what he says (that is what believe on Jesus means). If one can't know
what
he says then god is using trickery and is evil, what you call the devil.
Will the real god please stand up.

Oh, there are so many things wrong with this statement.....

Perhaps you can start with mentioning 10 or 20. Your answer was rather
vague.

Yeah. I was hoping that someone else would address it from a simple, and
logical, pov. Perhaps from just one side, the one that says that not every
Christian or theist agrees with his interpretation of what is, or that there
are theists out there who don't think that every OTHER religious viewpoint
is all wrong, evil and devilish?
.

User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 03:13:03 AM

DianaC wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other forum
member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the
best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not argued
about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful man,
Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the gospels
that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Yes. God should give clear directions. Otherwise ***** Him, ***** His
sycophantic apologists, and ***** the lawyers He'll have to hire to
defend Him from Divine malpractice.
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	04 Jul 2005 02:07:33 PM

"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1120446783.546720.266990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

DianaC wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians
the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other
forum
member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the
best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued
about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man,
Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels
that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Yes. God should give clear directions. Otherwise ***** Him, ***** His
sycophantic apologists, and ***** the lawyers He'll have to hire to
defend Him from Divine malpractice.

Speaks a man who obviously has never tried getting a husband to read the
directions on how to put a tricycle together on Christmas Eve.
.

User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	05 Jul 2005 02:54:17 AM

DianaC wrote:

"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1120446783.546720.266990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

DianaC wrote:

"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3iql2oFmjfllU2@individual.net...

After serious contemplation, on or about Sunday 03 July 2005 12:13 am
dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net wrote:

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11ce29qg00l0d65@corp.supernews.com...
<snip to>

You're kidding, right?

At this point in time, the word Christian is meaningless. It stands
for
nothing! All sorts of vile people (including members of the KKK) sit
under it's umbrella. Till then, I'll just keep treating Christians
the
way I have in recent times: with contempt. (Oh, before some other
forum
member goes goofy with it, there are no guidelines by which Atheists
must abide. I, for one, am just trying to be a "good" person in the
best
sense possible sense of the word. I am a "moral" atheist.

Greywolf

Greywolf, I am a Christian, I say to you that there is no specific and
identifiable moral code by which Christians must abide that is not
argued
about by other Christians.

Why not? Can't an omnipotent, omniscient god make himself perfectly
clear?
Shouldn't his divine son who himself must be that very same omnipotent,
omniscient god give clear directions and shut down that nasty hateful
man,
Paul of Tarsus, who contradicts everything that is written in the
gospels
that Jesus is supposed to have said?

Why should He? Because you say he has to?

Yes. God should give clear directions. Otherwise ***** Him, ***** His
sycophantic apologists, and ***** the lawyers He'll have to hire to
defend Him from Divine malpractice.

Speaks a man who obviously has never tried getting a husband to read the
directions on how to put a tricycle together on Christmas Eve.

There you have it. God's refusal to issue unambiguous directions is
akin to Ward Cleaver putting together a Radio Flyer in between reading
the comics and the stock page of the local paper. Leave it to Diana.
.

User: "DianaC"
Title: Re: If You're Going to Call Yourself a Christian, Act Like One!	05 Jul 2005 01:30:03 PM

"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1120532057.309477.326770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip to>

Speaks a man who obviously has never tried getting a husband to read the
directions on how to put a tricycle together on Christmas Eve.

The point, which you have obviously missed, is that the instructions ARE
there. But men, being men, refuse to read them. Or, having read them, refuse
to believe them. Or having read and believed, interpret them in various and
odd methods.
The directions in how to live one's life are pretty simple, and are
generally the same no matter what religion you are looking at, at the base
of it. It all goes back to the 'golden rule'. I don't know a single religion
that doesnt' have some form of that somewhere. Indee