| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Q" |
| Date: |
11 Dec 2005 10:06:21 AM |
| Object: |
I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
-Q
.
|
|
| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 12:22:41 PM |
|
|
"Q"
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more....
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
..However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little
gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
Christmas without the spirit of Christmas loses its good
feeling. It becomes only a means of propping up weak
businesses every year.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
I suspect your figures are wrong. One, it isn't just fundies
who believe in Christmas. Two, 10% does not represent those
who have genuine Christian faith in America. At least you
aren't a grinch...
randy
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 11:26:15 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:22:41 -0800, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com>
wrote:
"Q"
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more....
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Gee, a Christian who's unable to read. How unsurprising.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
13 Dec 2005 12:43:13 AM |
|
|
"stoney"
"randy"
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Gee, a Christian who's unable to read. How unsurprising.
Yes indeed. Now books--they're the scary thing! ;)
randy
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
14 Dec 2005 10:35:38 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:43:13 -0800, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com>
wrote:
"stoney"
"randy"
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Gee, a Christian who's unable to read. How unsurprising.
Yes indeed. Now books--they're the scary thing! ;)
Heheheh.
randy
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 01:31:29 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:22:41 -0800, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com>
wrote:
"Q"
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more....
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Self control by those that invented it of course.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 02:43:27 PM |
|
|
"Les Hellawell"
"randy"
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Self control by those that invented it of course.
Yes, if people actually confer the power of the "gods" upon
those who invent fables. I prefer to check the story out,
and see if anything there actually sounds like "God."
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
My father-in-law's from Yorkshire. Do you know anybody from
the Price family? (probably too many, huh?)
randy
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 03:54:04 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:43:27 -0800, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com>
wrote:
"Les Hellawell"
"randy"
If gods are mere "inventions," how do they control minds?
Self control by those that invented it of course.
Yes, if people actually confer the power of the "gods" upon
those who invent fables. I prefer to check the story out,
and see if anything there actually sounds like "God."
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
My father-in-law's from Yorkshire. Do you know anybody from
the Price family? (probably too many, huh?)
Wherabouts in Yorkshire? Don't know any Price's hereabouts
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 06:53:40 PM |
|
|
"Les Hellawell"
"randy"
My father-in-law's from Yorkshire. Do you know anybody
from
the Price family? (probably too many, huh?)
Wherabouts in Yorkshire? Don't know any Price's hereabouts
Not sure. A long shot anyway. My wife was raised up near
where that big oil fire is blazing, Hertfordshire.
randy
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 11:14:40 AM |
|
|
"Q" <> wrote in message ...
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
Enjoy the Pagan Holiday. No matter how much religionists try to paint it as
Christ's birthday, we actually know that the early christians never
celebrated a birth.
But the Pagans did!! And to attract them, the religionists adopted the Pagan
day.
Read about it:
The Saturnalia was the most popular holiday of the Roman year. Catullus
describes it as "the best of days," and Seneca complains that the "whole mob
has let itself go in pleasures." Pliny the Younger writes that he retired to
his room while the rest of the household celebrated. Cicero fled to the
countryside. It was an occasion for celebration, visits to friends, and the
presentation of gifts, particularly wax candles (cerei), perhaps to signify
the returning light after the solstice, and sigillaria. Martial wrote Xenia
and Apophoreta for the Saturnalia. Both were published in December and
intended to accompany the "guest gifts" which were given at that time of
year. Aulus Gellius relates in his Attic Nights (XVIII.2) that he and his
Roman compatriots would gather at the baths in Athens, where they were
studying, and pose difficult questions to one another on the ancient poets,
a crown of laurel being dedicated to Saturn if no-one could answer them.
And the prophesy of Statius.
At the end of the first century AD, Statius still could proclaim: "For how
many years shall this festival abide! Never shall age destroy so holy a day!
While the hills of Latium remain and father Tiber, while thy Rome stands and
the Capitol thou hast restored to the world, it shall continue." And the
Saturnalia did continue to be celebrated as Brumalia (from bruma, winter
solstice) down to the Christian era, when, by the middle of the fourth
century AD, its rituals had become absorbed in the celebration of Christmas.
So, enjoy the holiday. Call it whatever you want. It'll always be the
Saturnalia, regardless of what name you use!!
Smile.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "James" |
|
| Title: Was "Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing." |
26 Dec 2005 02:32:31 PM |
|
|
Q <none@nowhere.net>
Was "Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing."
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
-Q
Q,
Do you know how genuine Christians celebrate Christmas? They don't.
Because genuine Christians belonging to the Bible's "one faith"
religion (Eph 4:5), must follow the Bible in all that they do. And
nowhere in the Bible did any of Jesus' followers celebrate his birth.
Rather, they were instructed by Jesus himself to celebrate his death.
(Lu 22:19)
They certainly hold of great value the birth of Jesus, and all that he
did for mankind. But the Christmas celebration of today is tainted
with pagan rituals and commercialism and falsehoods etc, and the Bible
tells us that God seeks out people to worship Him with TRUTH, not
lies. Joh 4:23,24,
"23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall
worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such
to worship him.
24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth." (KJV)
Here is a sample of the falsehoods connected with the Christmas
celebration. Look at your typical Nativity scene, and then compare it
to the what the Bible says:
The wise men (Greek, "magoi"; actually they were pagan astrologers.
See what God thinks of astrologers at De 18:10-12 and Isa 47:13,14)
never visited the "baby" Jesus in a "manger", they visited the "child"
Jesus in a "house". (Mt 2:11, NIV) It was shepherds living "out of
doors" (doesn't sound much like December does it?) while tending their
flocks who found the "baby" Jesus in a "manger". (Lu 2:8,16, NIV)
Just thought you might want to see some truth on this subject.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Was "Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing." |
26 Dec 2005 07:37:26 PM |
|
|
James wrote:
"23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father
seeketh such to worship him.
24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth." (KJV)
Matthew is the only work that has astrologers, (magoi).
Matthew was not a Hebrew, but a Greek writing for Greeks.
Naturally for many good Romans citizens, great events are
presaged by the stars, most the writers who wrote of the
lives of the Roman emperors pretended to note such signs
in the skies preceeding the emperors.
So naturally, working in such signs is obvious in the case,
its a stock convention.
--
Wassail, Happy Holidays, Merry Solstice, Happy
Saturnalia, mull the wine and pass the eggnog.
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Was "Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing." |
27 Dec 2005 03:19:09 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:32:31 -0800, James <arox@surfbest.net> wrote:
Q <none@nowhere.net>
Was "Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing."
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
-Q
Q,
Do you know how genuine Christians celebrate Christmas? They don't.
Because genuine Christians belonging to the Bible's "one faith"
religion (Eph 4:5), must follow the Bible in all that they do. And
nowhere in the Bible did any of Jesus' followers celebrate his birth.
Rather, they were instructed by Jesus himself to celebrate his death.
(Lu 22:19)
They certainly hold of great value the birth of Jesus, and all that he
did for mankind.
Which being nothing is not hard to do.
But the Christmas celebration of today is tainted
with pagan rituals and commercialism and falsehoods
So why not seperate your Christian rituals from our celebrations
by helping to make a clear distinction between the two. This
can be best done by confining your rituals to your homes and
your churches and leave us to celebrate our Festive end of
year break. That way your Christ Mass can become pure.
We would be more than happy to assist you in that endeavour
by ceasing to use your Christian word "Christmas" and instead
use a different word. For example some shops have taken your
complaint to heart and instead of tainting your Christianity with
their commercialism have stopped using the word Christmas.
I also note that some towns and cities have also ceased
tainting your Christmas by not associating decorated fur
trees with your Christmas.
etc, and the Bible
tells us that God seeks out people to worship Him with TRUTH, not
lies. Joh 4:23,24
How do the authors of the Bible know this?
"23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall
worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such
to worship him.
24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth." (KJV)
Don't let me stop you.
Here is a sample of the falsehoods connected with the Christmas
celebration. Look at your typical Nativity scene, and then compare it
to the what the Bible says:
The wise men (Greek, "magoi"; actually they were pagan astrologers.
See what God thinks of astrologers at De 18:10-12 and Isa 47:13,14)
never visited the "baby" Jesus in a "manger", they visited the "child"
Jesus in a "house". (Mt 2:11, NIV) It was shepherds living "out of
doors" (doesn't sound much like December does it?) while tending their
flocks who found the "baby" Jesus in a "manger". (Lu 2:8,16, NIV)
Just thought you might want to see some truth on this subject.
And I agree. You obviously know what Christmas means to you.
As I am not a Christian it is obviously none of my business and
I can assure you I will not intefere and try to tell you how best
to celebrate it. Naturally I assume you will be leaving me and
others to celebrate the end of the year in our non Christian way.
This is of course how it should be in a free nation. You are
free to do as you wish and I am free to do things my way.
Good luck and have a happy New Year and enjoy the
lengthening days now the Solstice has passed as
commemorated on the Sun's Day, the last before the
New Year.
Sincerely, James
Honestly
--
Les Hellawell
All year round greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
Would you like free lessons in atheism and
an explanation why there is no reason to
believe gods exist? Free advice and information
is always available on alt.atheism with experts
standing by to advice you. Just ask and
advice will be freely given. Free your mind
leave the realms of ignorance behind and join
us in the sun given light.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 10:49:57 AM |
|
|
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
There is NO - NADA evidence that Christ was born anytime in December much
less December 25 th.
Whether you are a Christian or not, enjoy the holiday spirit and gift
giving!
Just don't eat and drink too much. It could cause a premature death and
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven or hell.
"Q" <none@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:G7SdnWn6q4uZ0gHenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
-Q
.
|
|
|
| User: "Q" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 11:01:17 AM |
|
|
Bill wrote:
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
Indeed, early Christianity and Islam and every other budding
religion has had to coopt existing traditions in order to
appear legitimate.
Later they try to obliterate the memory of the origins of
those traditions.
-Q
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gringo" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 01:47:07 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was
preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
There is NO - NADA evidence that Christ was born
anytime in December much
less December 25 th.
Whether you are a Christian or not, enjoy the
holiday spirit and gift
giving!
Forget about gift-giving. It's all about
gift-getting!
Just don't eat and drink too much. It could cause
a premature death and
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
<snip>
Un hombre sabio utilizará su cerebro.
Un tonto utiliza el cerebro de otro.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dgillesp" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 05:41:48 PM |
|
|
Gringo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was
preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
There is NO - NADA evidence that Christ was born
anytime in December much
less December 25 th.
Most mainline biblical scholars agree. It was more likely to have been
in April.
Whether you are a Christian or not, enjoy the
holiday spirit and gift
giving!
Forget about gift-giving. It's all about
gift-getting!
Actually it's all about the economy. "The retail holiday sales season
still is extremely important to retailers. It can account for up to 40%
of annual sales but more importantly up to 75% of all profit." -
Richard Feinberg - Purdue Retail Institute
Hark the herald angels cry,
"Only 13 more days--
Go out and buy!"
Just don't eat and drink too much. It could cause
a premature death
Watch it, friend, you are undermining our basic hedonism with that sort
of thinking.
and
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
--
Denny
"There cannot be a God because, If there were one, I would
not believe that I were not He." - Friedrich Nietzsche
.
|
|
|
| User: "Josef Balluch" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 08:51:37 PM |
|
|
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
Denny, are you sure you want to push your luck by displeasing Allah?
Regards,
Josef
Immense power and money await those who tap into our moral
insecurities and supply us with symbolic substitutes.
-- Barry Glassner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Josef Balluch" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
16 Dec 2005 09:54:38 AM |
|
|
In a message sent 'round the world, Josef Balluch poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
Denny, are you sure you want to push your luck by displeasing Allah?
No response, Denny?
Allah loves you, Denny! You know it in your heart.
Regards,
Josef
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
-- Voltaire
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 11:17:46 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:37 -0500, Josef Balluch
<josef.balluch@sympatico.can> wrote:
In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
...
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
Denny, are you sure you want to push your luck by displeasing Allah?
Denny's addicted to false witness which pisses 'Jesus' off.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 06:53:01 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:41:48 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Gringo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
and
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
You mean by cherry picking a single version of a single religion and
taking the infintisimal chance that this one is the right one and then
ignoring 9/10's of what it says because it's vague and contradictory
and you really didn't want to do most of it anyway?
Sounds like the safest route is to act like you know what you really
do know and not try to lie to yourself.
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 11:17:16 AM |
|
|
On 11 Dec 2005 18:53:01 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:41:48 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Gringo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
and
there is no objective evidence for either a heaven
or hell.
And that's every reason to press your luck, right?
You mean by cherry picking a single version of a single religion and
taking the infintisimal chance that this one is the right one and then
ignoring 9/10's of what it says because it's vague and contradictory
and you really didn't want to do most of it anyway?
Sounds like the safest route is to act like you know what you really
do know and not try to lie to yourself.
Denny has to lie to himself, and about others.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sanitys little helper" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 12:34:39 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:41:48 -0500, dgillesp wrote:
Gringo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was
preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
There is NO - NADA evidence that Christ was born
anytime in December much
less December 25 th.
Most mainline biblical scholars agree. It was more likely to have been
in April.
that would be exactly right at the beginning thereof.
--
Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we eat, drink and be merry.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Q" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 05:54:22 PM |
|
|
Gringo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:57 -0500, "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Dec. 25 th. is an ancient pagan holiday that was
preempted by the early
Catholic church and made a Christian holiday.
Surely it was a holiday in the Roman world, but
what about in places outside, like the Germanic
areas, the Slavic areas, the Basque area etc.?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 04:10:59 PM |
|
|
I have a xmas tree as well. Just makes things look nice and cozy and
more inviting to the rest of the folks.
I have always maintained that even if I do not believe in the
supernatural, religion is an important facet for humankind not to be
taken lightly. Maybe because most of the masses are simpletons who
need to take solace in a hope for better after-life. Me on the other
hand - I'm content to know that I'll just be worm food and I'm going to
live my life to the fullest way I can. However, I do not belittle the
importance of religion and its power to keep the masses in check on
occassion. Of course, it has its flip side as well when the fundies
try to shove it down every one's throats. That's when I begin to hate
religion.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "chibiabos" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 11:01:22 AM |
|
|
In article <G7SdnWn6q4uZ0gHenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
<none@nowhere.net> wrote:
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
-Q
We celebrate solstice also, with all the traditional stuff. My kids are
a little old for Santa, but we have the tree, the decorations, gifts,
carols (even religious ones - now playing: Trans-Siberian Orchestra),
and a huge standing rib roast with all the trimmings.
We do all of this on the 21st. Not the 25th. My partner's boys all end
up over at their girlfriends' houses on Xmas, so we have the place all
to ourselves.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ananias917" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 12:05:28 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:06:21 -0500, Q
<none@nowhere.net> spake thusly:
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more.
I do not want to control you!
Believe! Believe! Believe!
I do not want to control you!
However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree.
That's 'cause you get stuff. :)
The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
I wouldn't say that it's 90%. I'd say 90% think about
it. I don't celebrate it, because I think it's wrong
to take pagan things and claim to worship God with
them. I am against Christians celebrating this
holiday.
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 01:26:23 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:06:21 -0500, Q <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
Hi all,
Now, I'm an atheist, thus I argue that gods are merely
the invention of people who want to control the minds
of other people, and nothing more. However I do admit
that I enjoy doing the silly Christmas thing every year
including the presents and to a lesser extent the
tree. The gift giving is fun, especially the part
about contemplating what other people need and want,
as is the strategizing and the forming of little gift-giving
alliances. Why Christmas? Because honoring Winter Solstice
feel ungenuine, out of sync, and requires tedious
explanation.
Yes but don't you think the Christ's Mass belongs to Christians
and that it would be wrong us to attempt to pervert it for our
own use? Surely it is wrong to associate our materialism and
decoration of a fur tree with their religion?
So in the end, whatever Xmas originally was, today in our
modern secular society it is a useful social ritual, and
I suspect that for 90% of North Americans it does not
involve any significant consideration of a prophet or god.
The fringe 10% who are fundies are the exception.
Yes I agree that is what we have done but am increasingly
of the opinion that Christianity aught to be respected (not
that they respect us) and we should not steal the name
of their ancient ritual. They have rightly complained that we
have taken Christ out of Christmas.
I think it is right that we give them back their Christmas
for their own purposes and give our secular festivities
a new name so the difference between them is clear.
When they have done their religious thingy they are
then free to join in our celebrations too without all
the associated guilt.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "Q" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
11 Dec 2005 05:50:54 PM |
|
|
Les Hellawell wrote:
Yes but don't you think the Christ's Mass belongs to Christians
and that it would be wrong us to attempt to pervert it for our
own use? Surely it is wrong to associate our materialism and
decoration of a fur tree with their religion?
I think Christianity merely coopted a former ritual,
probably some mid-Winter celebration designed to break
the boredom of being indoors most of them time,
so yes it's fine to liberate that celebration from
the Xians.
They have rightly complained that we
have taken Christ out of Christmas.
But the momentum of modern culture's coopting of
Christmas derives I think mainly from capitalism,
and secondarily by regular people seeking any excuse for
a mid-Winter celebration.
Q
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 03:51:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:50:54 -0500, Q <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote:
Yes but don't you think the Christ's Mass belongs to Christians
and that it would be wrong us to attempt to pervert it for our
own use? Surely it is wrong to associate our materialism and
decoration of a fur tree with their religion?
I think Christianity merely coopted a former ritual,
probably some mid-Winter celebration designed to break
the boredom of being indoors most of them time,
so yes it's fine to liberate that celebration from
the Xians.
They have rightly complained that we
have taken Christ out of Christmas.
But the momentum of modern culture's coopting of
Christmas derives I think mainly from capitalism,
and secondarily by regular people seeking any excuse for
a mid-Winter celebration.
Of course this secularisation of 'Christ's Mass' was a change
driven by Christians as much as those of us who are not
Christian but true Christians have increasingly been alarmed
that their Christ has been taken out of it. Here in the UK the
Archbishop of Canterbury has been bleating how materialistic
Christmas had become and pleaded for a return to the
true meaning.
I think it is time to listen to the Archbishop and give him
his Christmas back to do with as he wishes, and that we
go our separate ways by giving our simultaneous
end of year 'bash' a secular or more ancient name so the
distinction is clear. That way the Christians can be happy
in their way and we can be happy in our way.
Viva la difference
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: I'm an atheist, but I still do the Xmas thing. |
12 Dec 2005 07:19:33 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:51:05 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:50:54 -0500, Q <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote:
Yes but don't you think the Christ's Mass belongs to Christians
and that it would be wrong us to attempt to pervert it for our
own use? Surely it is wrong to associate our materialism and
decoration of a fur tree with their religion?
I think Christianity merely coopted a former ritual,
probably some mid-Winter celebration designed to break
the boredom of being indoors most of them time,
so yes it's fine to liberate that celebration from
the Xians.
They have rightly complained that we
have taken Christ out of Christmas.
But the momentum of modern culture's coopting of
Christmas derives I think mainly from capitalism,
and secondarily by regular people seeking any excuse for
a mid-Winter celebration.
Of course this secularisation of 'Christ's Mass' was a change
driven by Christians as much as those of us who are not
Christian but true Christians have increasingly been alarmed
that their Christ has been taken out of it. Here in the UK the
Archbishop of Canterbury has been bleating how materialistic
Christmas had become and pleaded for a return to the
true meaning.
He should know better. Every year he whines about something this, to
people who lost their belief long ago.
Is he really so stupid he doesn't understand that it's like telling
adults to believe in Father Christmas again?
It's what makes him the public joke people see him as.
He's got nothing to say but imagines he's so important everybody has
to listen.
I think it is time to listen to the Archbishop and give him
his Christmas back to do with as he wishes, and that we
go our separate ways by giving our simultaneous
end of year 'bash' a secular or more ancient name so the
distinction is clear. That way the Christians can be happy
in their way and we can be happy in our way.
Viva la difference
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
