| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
28 Mar 2006 01:36:05 PM |
| Object: |
Imperial overreach |
Imperial overreach is accelerating the global decline of America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1740893,00.html
The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated
than ever, and China is standing by to take over
Martin Jacques
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian
'Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories
about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily
discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from
our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination
of our goals and means."
These are the words of Henry Hyde, chairman of the House international
relations committee and a Republican congressman, in a recent speech.
Hyde argues that such is the overweening power of the US that it may
not hear or recognise the signals when its policy goes badly wrong, a
thinly veiled reference to Iraq. He then takes issue with the idea that
the US can export democracy around the world as deeply misguided and
potentially dangerous. He argues: "A broad and energetic promotion of
democracy in other countries that will not enjoy our long-term and
guiding presence may equate not to peace and stability but to
revolution ... There is no evidence that we or anyone can guide from
afar revolutions we have set in motion. We can more easily destabilise
friends and others and give life to chaos and to avowed enemies than
ensure outcomes in service of our interests and security."
Imperial overreach
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Imperial%20overreach%22&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&start=0&scoring=d&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&
Martin Jacques
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Martin+Jacques%22
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1891d9836c5591c3
China / Meiguo
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/772524fe8bf033d4
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a8545c8e949926bc
.
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| User: "ltlee1" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
28 Mar 2006 04:32:20 PM |
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maff wrote:
Imperial overreach is accelerating the global decline of America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1740893,00.html
The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated
than ever, and China is standing by to take over
Martin Jacques
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian
'Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories
about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily
discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from
our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination
of our goals and means."
These are the words of Henry Hyde, chairman of the House international
relations committee and a Republican congressman, in a recent speech.
Hyde argues that such is the overweening power of the US that it may
not hear or recognise the signals when its policy goes badly wrong, a
thinly veiled reference to Iraq. He then takes issue with the idea that
the US can export democracy around the world as deeply misguided and
potentially dangerous. He argues: "A broad and energetic promotion of
democracy in other countries that will not enjoy our long-term and
guiding presence may equate not to peace and stability but to
revolution ... There is no evidence that we or anyone can guide from
afar revolutions we have set in motion. We can more easily destabilise
friends and others and give life to chaos and to avowed enemies than
ensure outcomes in service of our interests and security."
The word "long term" is key.
It takes America more than 100 years to get any resemblence of
religious toleration.
It takes America about 200 years to touch and transform Black Americans
like Ms Rice.
Imperial overreach
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Imperial%20overreach%22&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&start=0&scoring=d&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&
Martin Jacques
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Martin+Jacques%22
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1891d9836c5591c3
China / Meiguo
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/772524fe8bf033d4
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a8545c8e949926bc
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 06:02:48 AM |
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ltlee1 wrote:
maff wrote:
Imperial overreach is accelerating the global decline of America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1740893,00.html
The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated
than ever, and China is standing by to take over
Martin Jacques
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian
'Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories
about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily
discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from
our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination
of our goals and means."
These are the words of Henry Hyde, chairman of the House international
relations committee and a Republican congressman, in a recent speech.
Hyde argues that such is the overweening power of the US that it may
not hear or recognise the signals when its policy goes badly wrong, a
thinly veiled reference to Iraq. He then takes issue with the idea that
the US can export democracy around the world as deeply misguided and
potentially dangerous. He argues: "A broad and energetic promotion of
democracy in other countries that will not enjoy our long-term and
guiding presence may equate not to peace and stability but to
revolution ... There is no evidence that we or anyone can guide from
afar revolutions we have set in motion. We can more easily destabilise
friends and others and give life to chaos and to avowed enemies than
ensure outcomes in service of our interests and security."
The word "long term" is key.
It takes America more than 100 years to get any resemblence of
religious toleration.
It takes America about 200 years to touch and transform Black Americans
like Ms Rice.
"I assert most unhesitatingly, that the religion of the South is a mere
covering for the most horrid crimes--a justifier of the most appalling
barbarity, a sanctifier of the most hateful frauds, and a dark shelter
under which the darkest, foulest, grossest, and most infernal deeds of
slave holders find the strongest protection. Where I to be again
reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should
regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that
could befall me... I... hate the corrupt, slave holding,
women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical
Christianity of this land." -- Frederick Douglass (After the Escape)
Frederick Douglass
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/d37362830940d5e4
"We have been producing and exporting oil for more than 100 years,"
Chavez told Chinese businessmen in December. "But these have been 100
years of domination by the United States. Now we are free, and place
this oil at the disposal of the great Chinese fatherland."
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2005/03/06/2003225714
"I wish to tell you, my Indian brothers, that the 500-year indigenous
and popular campaign of resistance has not been in vain," Mr Morales,
an Aymara Indian, said during an emotional speech.
"We're taking over now over the next 500 years. We're going to put an
end to injustice, to inequality."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4636190.stm
Forgotten Founders
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/6a0fe41017f7944a
Imperial overreach
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Imperial%20overreach%22&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Imperial+overreach%22&start=0&scoring=d&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&
Martin Jacques
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Martin+Jacques%22
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1891d9836c5591c3
China / Meiguo
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/772524fe8bf033d4
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a8545c8e949926bc
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
28 Mar 2006 05:03:31 PM |
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ltlee1 wrote:
maff wrote:
Imperial overreach is accelerating the global decline of America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1740893,00.html
The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated
than ever, and China is standing by to take over
Martin Jacques
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian
'Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories
about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily
discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from
our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination
of our goals and means."
These are the words of Henry Hyde, chairman of the House international
relations committee and a Republican congressman, in a recent speech.
Hyde argues that such is the overweening power of the US that it may
not hear or recognise the signals when its policy goes badly wrong, a
thinly veiled reference to Iraq. He then takes issue with the idea that
the US can export democracy around the world as deeply misguided and
potentially dangerous. He argues: "A broad and energetic promotion of
democracy in other countries that will not enjoy our long-term and
guiding presence may equate not to peace and stability but to
revolution ... There is no evidence that we or anyone can guide from
afar revolutions we have set in motion. We can more easily destabilise
friends and others and give life to chaos and to avowed enemies than
ensure outcomes in service of our interests and security."
The word "long term" is key.
It takes America more than 100 years to get any resemblence of
religious toleration.
It takes America about 200 years to touch and transform Black Americans
like Ms Rice.
Well, that's not at all what Hyde was talking about.
But it is obviously true that things take time. That is true of any
place in the world.
I don't see any relevance to this response. It's just repeating a stale
old mantra: America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid. If it seems valid, then the evidence is not
acceptable.
Yawn.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
28 Mar 2006 05:54:50 PM |
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America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
28 Mar 2006 09:37:40 PM |
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wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 05:33:47 AM |
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wrote:
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
.
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| User: "J.Venning" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 06:00:32 AM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
J.
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| User: "ltlee1" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 06:14:23 AM |
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J.Venning wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How can you be sure that bmoore is another name for Komin or Jim Walsh?
J.
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| User: "J.Venning" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 07:42:49 AM |
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"ltlee1" <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:1143634463.057983.195970@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How can you be sure that bmoore is another name for Komin or Jim =
Walsh?
I never said it was, but I am pretty certain that bmoore is not the =
same person as Komin or Walsh, because their posts originate from =
different parts of the world posted at different time zones when I =
traced them. Their psychological profiles differ, and their styles of =
writing also differ. That doesn't mean that it is definitely certain =
that bmoore is *not* Komin or Walsh of course, because there have been =
cases where one person assumed different names and wrote differently, =
but in this particular case, I would venture to say that it is possible =
but improbable.
J.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 12:17:57 PM |
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ltlee1 wrote:
J.Venning wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How can you be sure that bmoore is another name for Komin or Jim Walsh?
How can you be sure that LT Lee is not a secret operative who is
supposed to impersonate a deceitful Chinese chauvinist living in the
US, in an effort to make the CCP look bad.
Doing a great job, BTW.
.
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| User: "J.Venning" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 12:38:17 PM |
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<bmoore@nyx.net> wrote in message =
news:1143656277.398785.188790@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How can you be sure that bmoore is another name for Komin or Jim =
Walsh?
How can you be sure that LT Lee is not a secret operative who is
supposed to impersonate a deceitful Chinese chauvinist living in the
US, in an effort to make the CCP look bad.
Doing a great job, BTW.
Conspiracy theories abound! I often wonder how you folks can keep =
this up for such a long time. Habit, I suppose, or perhaps you folks =
have built a sort of brotherhood, bashing one another with Chinese =
politics and culture as the weapon and binding force. Checked your =
e-mail box lately?
J.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 01:01:30 PM |
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J.Venning wrote:
<bmoore@nyx.net> wrote in message news:1143656277.398785.188790@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How can you be sure that bmoore is another name for Komin or Jim Walsh?
How can you be sure that LT Lee is not a secret operative who is
supposed to impersonate a deceitful Chinese chauvinist living in the
US, in an effort to make the CCP look bad.
Doing a great job, BTW.
Conspiracy theories abound! I often wonder how you folks can keep this up for such a long time. Habit, I suppose, or perhaps you folks have built a sort of brotherhood, bashing one another with Chinese politics and culture as the weapon and binding force.
Well, sort of.
Checked your e-mail box lately?
I don't see anything there. Maybe you can resend?
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 06:05:14 AM |
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J.Venning wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143632027.833930.268590@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How would you know one way or another? Did you poll all 1.2 billion
Chinese?
J.
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| User: "J.Venning" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 07:34:57 AM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
news:1143633914.430944.161810@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How would you know one way or another? Did you poll all 1.2 billion
Chinese?
I was referring to the person who likes China but hate the Chinese. =
To what are you referring that needed the poll? Incidentally, it's 1.3, =
and not 1.2 billion.
J.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 12:21:04 PM |
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J.Venning wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143633914.430944.161810@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How would you know one way or another? Did you poll all 1.2 billion
Chinese?
I was referring to the person who likes China but hate the Chinese. To what are you referring that needed the poll? Incidentally, it's 1.3, and not 1.2 billion.
maff's wrong a lot
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
31 Mar 2006 01:15:57 PM |
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wrote:
J.Venning wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1143633914.430944.161810@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
No, that's Komin.
How would you know one way or another? Did you poll all 1.2 billion
Chinese?
I was referring to the person who likes China but hate the Chinese. To what are you referring that needed the poll? Incidentally, it's 1.3, and not 1.2 billion.
maff's wrong a lot
Compared to you everyone gets it most of the time.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
29 Mar 2006 12:19:43 PM |
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maff wrote:
bmoore@nyx.net wrote:
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
Ah, the crazy guy who makes accusations based on nothing speaks. Soon
he will be calling me a "Bushie fascist".
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
31 Mar 2006 01:14:43 PM |
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wrote:
maff wrote:
wrote:
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
Ah, the crazy guy who makes accusations based on nothing speaks. Soon
he will be calling me a "Bushie fascist".
Are you ashamed calling yourself a Bushie fascist after the Iraq
debacle?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
31 Mar 2006 02:49:28 PM |
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maff wrote:
bmoore@nyx.net wrote:
maff wrote:
bmoore@nyx.net wrote:
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
Ah, the crazy guy who makes accusations based on nothing speaks. Soon
he will be calling me a "Bushie fascist".
Are you ashamed calling yourself a Bushie fascist after the Iraq
debacle?
Right on schedule, maff!
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
01 Apr 2006 05:23:53 AM |
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wrote:
maff wrote:
wrote:
maff wrote:
wrote:
rst0wxyz@yahoo.com wrote:
America is messed up, and as a corollary, any criticism of
China is invalid
I thought you were one of the China Bashers.
That was sarcasm. Some here do consider me a China basher. You'll have
to decide for yourself, I guess. I have been to China and enjoyed it.
So you like China but hate the Chinese?
Ah, the crazy guy who makes accusations based on nothing speaks. Soon
he will be calling me a "Bushie fascist".
Are you ashamed calling yourself a Bushie fascist after the Iraq
debacle?
Right on schedule, maff!
So you agree that you're a Bushie fascist?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Imperial overreach |
28 Mar 2006 04:24:09 PM |
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maff wrote:
Imperial overreach is accelerating the global decline of America
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1740893,00.html
The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated
than ever, and China is standing by to take over
Martin Jacques
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian
'Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories
about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily
discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from
our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination
of our goals and means."
These are the words of Henry Hyde, chairman of the House international
relations committee and a Republican congressman, in a recent speech.
Hyde argues that such is the overweening power of the US that it may
not hear or recognise the signals when its policy goes badly wrong, a
thinly veiled reference to Iraq. He then takes issue with the idea that
the US can export democracy around the world as deeply misguided and
potentially dangerous. He argues: "A broad and energetic promotion of
democracy in other countries that will not enjoy our long-term and
guiding presence may equate not to peace and stability but to
revolution ... There is no evidence that we or anyone can guide from
afar revolutions we have set in motion. We can more easily destabilise
friends and others and give life to chaos and to avowed enemies than
ensure outcomes in service of our interests and security."
Wise words.
.
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