| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2005 07:28:15 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 02:38:57 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin"
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
I agree with the boycott.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/news/editorial/11260641.htm
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 11:09:45 PM |
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Dave wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin"
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
I agree with the boycott.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/news/editorial/11260641.htm
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit... it's the only way to
be sure."
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| User: "Ron O" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
02 Apr 2005 08:49:04 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription
required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents
given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
J. Spaceman
I have a simple solution for the Kansas board. Since we are talking
about biology education, all they have to do is put the names of all
the names of biology faculty from all the US Universities in a hat
(They can even include the religious universities like Sean's employer)
and pull them out at random. They call the person they pick and tell
them what they are doing and how they are choosing the people that will
present the scientific views of the biological sciences. They must
accept every person that agrees to present their views of science
education. They can go down the list until they get the number of
people that they think will give the board enough information to decide
the issue. My guess is that ID advocates will be outnumbered by at
least 30 to 1 and they will probably have a hard time even finding
anyone willing to claim that what they consider to be ID is even
science. There are a lot of religious people in the sciences, but most
of them know what science is and what it isn't.
What is a given is that they will have a hard time finding anyone
willing to defend the "teach the controversy" scam outside of the scam
artists that are perpetrating this scam. If the board thinks that this
isn't true, they can adopt this selection plan and see what they get.
Ron Okimoto
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 04:40:49 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription
required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents
given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
I'd like to know more about the parameters of the debate. Every time
I've heard of such a "challenge" the fundies stacked the crowd. All
that applauding for stupid arguments makes some people *think that the
fundies are winning the debate. I'll bet this ID crowd has a similar
scheme brewing.
jwk
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 05:39:27 PM |
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"On 31 Mar 2005 08:40:49 -0800, in article
<1112287249.915863.142370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, jwk stated..."
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription
required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents
given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
I'd like to know more about the parameters of the debate. Every time
I've heard of such a "challenge" the fundies stacked the crowd. All
that applauding for stupid arguments makes some people *think that the
fundies are winning the debate. I'll bet this ID crowd has a similar
scheme brewing.
I had once heard that an effective technique, if you don't
have a great many supporters in the crowd, is to disperse those
you do have throughout the crowd, rather than concentrating them
in one part. It seems that when other members of the crowd hear
from many different locations, it appears that the amount of
support is greater.
Just something to watch out for if you're ever in an audience,
so that you don't overestimate the amount of support for the side
using this technique.
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"It being as impossible that the Organized Body of a Chicken should by the Power
of any Mechanical Motions be formed out of the unorganized Matter of an Egg; as
that the Sun, Moon and Stars, should by mere Mechanism arise out of a Chaos."
Samuel Clarke (1675-1729) Second Defense...Immortality of the Soul
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| User: "Mike Dworetsky" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 07:38:59 PM |
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"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112287249.915863.142370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription
required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents
given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
I'd like to know more about the parameters of the debate. Every time
I've heard of such a "challenge" the fundies stacked the crowd. All
that applauding for stupid arguments makes some people *think that the
fundies are winning the debate. I'll bet this ID crowd has a similar
scheme brewing.
AIUI, the "judges" from the Board are a subcommittee made up of fundies who
proposed bringing in ID in the first place.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)
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| User: "Pithecanthropus Erectus" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 01:54:20 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
J. Spaceman
How smart. A highly publicized event, in which ID'ers get unchallenged
press time to push their ideas so that people get the idea that what
they present has some merit.
And that scientists are afraid to discuss intelligent design.
Consider if Holy Mary Catholic High School in Bum---k, Egypt, were to
continually hassle the Michigan State or UNC basketball team to play one
game of basketball, and MSU/UNC decided that since HMCHS were not
playing real basketball they wouldn't play. Guess what? They are
right, but then HMCHS will claim bragging rights that MSU and UNC are
afraid to challenge them.
I say go in and trounce their asses.
--
"God Forbid we should actually test anything."
Creationism
"The curses of Deuteronomy 28 will plague America until we return to God
(Ps 9:17). Wealth and military might are not substitutes for God-given
character and blessing. Freedom comes, not from democracy, but Jesus
Christ. The outline below lists our wars & keys to victory. May God lead
us in the strategic and tactical prayers that are required!"
Capitol Hill Action Network, 2005
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 02:35:56 PM |
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"On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:54:20 -0600, in article
<LpqdnY-tzPGQnNHfRVn-hQ@comcast.com>, Pithecanthropus Erectus stated..."
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
J. Spaceman
How smart. A highly publicized event, in which ID'ers get unchallenged
press time to push their ideas so that people get the idea that what
they present has some merit.
And that scientists are afraid to discuss intelligent design.
Consider if Holy Mary Catholic High School in Bum---k, Egypt, were to
continually hassle the Michigan State or UNC basketball team to play one
game of basketball, and MSU/UNC decided that since HMCHS were not
playing real basketball they wouldn't play. Guess what? They are
right, but then HMCHS will claim bragging rights that MSU and UNC are
afraid to challenge them.
I say go in and trounce their asses.
An alternative could be to have some people who are not
scientists or teachers present the case.
They could say that they are as qualified as anyone on the
topic of ID.
Just make sure that they are prepared. (Unfortunately, too
often scientists are not prepared, because they think that merely
presenting the obvious science is enough.)
It would be something like MSU or UNC having a team made up,
not of expert basketball players, but of volunteers from the
student body, agree to play Calvin Ball.
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"It being as impossible that the Organized Body of a Chicken should by the Power
of any Mechanical Motions be formed out of the unorganized Matter of an Egg; as
that the Sun, Moon and Stars, should by mere Mechanism arise out of a Chaos."
Samuel Clarke (1675-1729) Second Defense...Immortality of the Soul
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| User: "David D." |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 02:55:33 PM |
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TomS wrote:
"On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:54:20 -0600, in article
<LpqdnY-tzPGQnNHfRVn-hQ@comcast.com>, Pithecanthropus Erectus
stated..."
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens
for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription
required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists
and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents
given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by
the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at
the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
J. Spaceman
How smart. A highly publicized event, in which ID'ers get
unchallenged
press time to push their ideas so that people get the idea that what
they present has some merit.
And that scientists are afraid to discuss intelligent design.
Consider if Holy Mary Catholic High School in Bum---k, Egypt, were
to
continually hassle the Michigan State or UNC basketball team to play
one
game of basketball, and MSU/UNC decided that since HMCHS were not
playing real basketball they wouldn't play. Guess what? They are
right, but then HMCHS will claim bragging rights that MSU and UNC
are
afraid to challenge them.
I say go in and trounce their asses.
An alternative could be to have some people who are not
scientists or teachers present the case.
They could say that they are as qualified as anyone on the
topic of ID.
Just make sure that they are prepared. (Unfortunately, too
often scientists are not prepared, because they think that merely
presenting the obvious science is enough.)
It would be something like MSU or UNC having a team made up,
not of expert basketball players, but of volunteers from the
student body, agree to play Calvin Ball.
Or it would be like US NBA players going to the Olympics
expecting to win. The olympic games, however, has
slightly different rules that reward team play and three
point shooting. Unfortunately the excellent NBA players
could not adapt to the new format and get creamed.
In this scenario the well prepared amateur would
perform better than the unprepared expert.
David D.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 04:38:00 PM |
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David D. wrote:
Or it would be like US NBA players going to the Olympics
expecting to win. The olympic games, however, has
slightly different rules that reward team play and three
point shooting. Unfortunately the excellent NBA players
could not adapt to the new format and get creamed.
In this scenario the well prepared amateur would
perform better than the unprepared expert.
The fact that a collection of prima-donnas couldn't cooperate well
enough to play was apparent too.
jwk
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 03:58:34 PM |
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David D. wrote:
TomS wrote:
Pithecanthropus Erectus stated..."
Jason Spaceman wrote:
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/KS/128_biologists_snub_39kangaroo__3_30_2005.asp
[...]
I say go in and trounce their asses.
[...]
An alternative could be to have some people who are not
scientists or teachers present the case. They could say
that they are as qualified as anyone on the topic of ID.
[...]
[...]
In this scenario the well prepared amateur would
perform better than the unprepared expert.
To understand the problem it helps to hear what happens in such a
debate. NCSE offers cassettes...
http://www.ncseweb.org/store.asp?sectiontype=ncsestore&storecategorynumber=9&categoryname=Debates
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
02 Apr 2005 03:18:50 AM |
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:54:20 -0600, Pithecanthropus Erectus
<tuibguy1EGNUM@comcast.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
How smart. A highly publicized event, in which ID'ers get unchallenged
press time to push their ideas so that people get the idea that what
they present has some merit.
And that scientists are afraid to discuss intelligent design.
Not at all. When the game is rigged there's no reason to play.
Consider if Holy Mary Catholic High School in Bum---k, Egypt, were to
continually hassle the Michigan State or UNC basketball team to play one
game of basketball, and MSU/UNC decided that since HMCHS were not
playing real basketball they wouldn't play. Guess what? They are
right, but then HMCHS will claim bragging rights that MSU and UNC are
afraid to challenge them.
I say go in and trounce their asses.
The decision has already been made by the Kansas board..
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Stanley Friesen" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
31 Mar 2005 02:44:37 PM |
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Pithecanthropus Erectus <tuibguy1EGNUM@comcast.net> wrote:
How smart. A highly publicized event, in which ID'ers get unchallenged
press time to push their ideas so that people get the idea that what
they present has some merit.
And that scientists are afraid to discuss intelligent design.
Consider if Holy Mary Catholic High School in Bum---k, Egypt, were to
continually hassle the Michigan State or UNC basketball team to play one
game of basketball, and MSU/UNC decided that since HMCHS were not
playing real basketball they wouldn't play. Guess what? They are
right, but then HMCHS will claim bragging rights that MSU and UNC are
afraid to challenge them.
I say go in and trounce their asses.
Except that the rules are setup so this cannot be done. The mere
*existence* of the "debate" encourages people to "get the idea that what
they present has some merit." A debate implies both sides have
something to say.
--
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin |
01 Apr 2005 06:32:23 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------
by Nick Matzke
The efforts of the grassroots pro-science group Kansas Citizens for
Science attracted international attention this week in the science
press. The March 31, 2005, issue of Nature carries a news article,
"Biologists snub 'kangaroo court' for Darwin" (subscription required).
The article, by Geoff Brumfiel, discusses what Kansas scientists and
educators are calling a "kangaroo court": a planned six days of
hearings on evolution, with "intelligent design" (ID) proponents given
equal time with scientists. The hearings are being organized by the
conservative majority on the Kansas State Board of Education, at the
suggestion of the Kansas-based Intelligent Design Network.
------------------------------------------------
So scientists aren't going to show up.
I suggest a day trip for a nursing home for the physically handicapped. Have them all wear signs
asking how intelligent was their designer.
--
This summer 9000 squatters will finally make
Aliyah to Israel.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3392
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
http://www.giwersworld.org
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