| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
12 May 2005 08:12:22 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Christian agenda worries other faiths |
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for someone to
come in and say, ‘My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative (and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator --
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/204457
J. Spaceman
.
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| User: "Googler" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Christian agenda worries other faiths |
12 May 2005 09:16:42 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in
Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they
are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for someone
to
come in and say, 'My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings
about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative
(and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator --
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/204457
I would add that many people who also consider themselves Christians
strongly disagree with the views of the 'Kansas creationists', and do
not accept that they represent Christians in general.
.
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| User: "Bonnie Bitch, YWN" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Christian agenda worries other faiths |
13 May 2005 02:00:33 PM |
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On 12 May 2005 07:16:42 -0700, "Googler"
<GOOGLE.4.godfatha@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in
Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they
are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for someone
to
come in and say, 'My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings
about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative
(and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator --
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/204457
I would add that many people who also consider themselves Christians
strongly disagree with the views of the 'Kansas creationists', and do
not accept that they represent Christians in general.
After the words "strongly disagree," I would add:
"while sitting on their lazy asses and not telling these sick,
fucked-up, anti-intellectual douchebags to shove their fucktarded
***** back up their sphincters, but hey -- they strongly disagree.
<eye roll>"
Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for anyone in the state of Kansas who
is not completely and totally outraged to the point of, oh I don't
know, maybe actually DOING SOMETHING, like speaking up against the
mentally-impaired halfwits from their own cult.
If the citizenry can't be bothered to speak up and shut down the *****
trumpets, then they deserve exactly what they get. That includes the
"other Christians," who are too busy playing their goddamned bagpipes.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
.
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| User: "Rev Dr Lenny Flank" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Christian agenda worries other faiths |
16 May 2005 06:18:34 PM |
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Bonnie *****, YWN wrote:
On 12 May 2005 07:16:42 -0700, "Googler"
<GOOGLE.4.godfatha@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity
on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who
are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas
schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in
Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of
religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and
a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they
are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither
one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for
someone
to
come in and say, 'My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings
about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative
(and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator
--
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the
way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/204457
I would add that many people who also consider themselves Christians
strongly disagree with the views of the 'Kansas creationists', and
do
not accept that they represent Christians in general.
After the words "strongly disagree," I would add:
"while sitting on their lazy asses and not telling these sick,
fucked-up, anti-intellectual douchebags to shove their fucktarded
***** back up their sphincters, but hey -- they strongly disagree.
<eye roll>"
Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for anyone in the state of Kansas who
is not completely and totally outraged to the point of, oh I don't
know, maybe actually DOING SOMETHING, like speaking up against the
mentally-impaired halfwits from their own cult.
If the citizenry can't be bothered to speak up and shut down the *****
trumpets, then they deserve exactly what they get. That includes the
"other Christians," who are too busy playing their goddamned
bagpipes.
Ein Prosit der GemŸtlichkeit --
Bonnie *****
Amen. You go, girl.
================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
DebunkCreation email list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Christian agenda worries other faiths |
16 May 2005 03:00:32 PM |
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On 12 May 2005 07:16:42 -0700, "Googler"
<GOOGLE.4.godfatha@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in
Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they
are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for someone
to
come in and say, 'My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings
about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative
(and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator --
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/204457
I would add that many people who also consider themselves Christians
strongly disagree with the views of the 'Kansas creationists', and do
not accept that they represent Christians in general.
Then they'd better get off their dead asses or they *do* represent
Christians in general.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "VoiceOfReason" |
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| Title: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
12 May 2005 01:30:30 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------
Push for intelligent design seen by some as imposing Christianity on
others
By Jim Baker, Journal-World
Thursday, May 12, 2005
It is conservative Christians on the State Board of Education who are
sitting today in judgment of evolution instruction in Kansas schools.
But their religion, of course, isn't the only one practiced in
Kansas.
"I think that this is trying to sneak in a certain brand of religion
in disguise. I do not think that this is the American thing to do,
because we do not impose one religion on everybody," said Judith
Roitman, guiding teacher at the Kansas Zen Center, 1423 N.Y., and a
professor of mathematics at Kansas University. "This is not just a
Christian agenda, but a particular brand of Christianity, and they
are
trying to impose it on everyone else.
"I practice two faiths -- Buddhism and Judaism -- and in neither one
of them does the mainstream feel that it is appropriate for someone
to
come in and say, 'My religious text tells me that your science is
wrong.'"
Saibal Bhattacharya, who is a Hindu, said he had deep misgivings
about
the push to give "intelligent design" -- the idea that a creative
(and
possibly supernatural) consciousness was behind the birth of the
universe -- equal billing with evolution in science classrooms.
"I'm concerned about where it might lead. Compulsory prayer in
schools, whether people might have to acknowledge a common creator --
all these things are waiting to explode, especially if they
(conservatives) are successful," said Bhattacharya, an assistant
scientist who does petroleum engineering studies for the
Lawrence-based Kansas Geological Survey.
"That's very disappointing for me, as a Hindu," he said. "I'm more
accustomed to being left alone to pursue my spiritual beliefs the way
I want to in the privacy of my home."
Bhattacharya is among non-Christian Lawrence residents expressing
anxiety -- and even anger -- about the possible introduction of
intelligent design into the state's science standards for public
schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself. Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews, Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
.
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| User: "John Vreeland" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
12 May 2005 09:26:43 PM |
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On 12 May 2005 11:30:30 -0700, "VoiceOfReason"
<papa_fox@cybertown.com> wrote:
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself. Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews, Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
__
John Vreeland
If you cannot ever admit to being wrong, then you will never be right.
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| User: "Ernest Major" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
14 May 2005 04:49:11 PM |
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In article <1f3881h2be7gc39r398a5dvuf17v0p9cf1@4ax.com>, John Vreeland
<vreejack@hotmail.com> writes
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
It seems like this may be a case of hyperbole - for bad Christians and
bad Americans - as they are clearly Americans, so it can't be meant
literally in this instance. However if one were to draw a line around
Christianity not including everyone who claims to be one then
bibliolators would be one of the obvious candidate groups for exclusion,
especially those who claim that a "literal" reading of the Bible is
required for Christians.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
--
alias Ernest Major
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
12 May 2005 10:02:23 PM |
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John Vreeland wrote:
On 12 May 2005 11:30:30 -0700, "VoiceOfReason"
<papa_fox@cybertown.com> wrote:
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself. Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews, Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Probably along the lines of Marx's famous "I am not a Marxist."
--Jeff
--
Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if
there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason, then that
of blindfolded fear.
--Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
18 May 2005 01:06:11 PM |
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Jeffrey Turner wrote:
John Vreeland wrote:
On 12 May 2005 11:30:30 -0700, "VoiceOfReason"
<papa_fox@cybertown.com> wrote:
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith
that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself.
Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with
fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of
the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to
sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation
of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews,
Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you
what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans.
They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists
on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Probably along the lines of Marx's famous "I am not a Marxist."
--Jeff
Or Jesus's famous, "Don't look at me, I'm Jewish."
Eric Root
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| User: "Lizz Holmans" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 01:01:54 AM |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:26:43 -0400, John Vreeland
<vreejack@hotmail.com> wrote:
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Because there are fundamentalists in any and every religion. I should
think a devout Muslim would take some offense at your calling him a
Christian.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Some do--the Roman Catholics have more books in their canonical Bible
than Protestants. But every denomination chooses which way to
interpret those scriptures.
This isn't exclusive to Christianity, either.
Lizz 'there are always splinters' Holmans
--
I was too far out all my life
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| User: "John Vreeland" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 12:40:34 PM |
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On Fri, 13 May 2005 07:01:54 +0100, Lizz Holmans
<dillo@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:26:43 -0400, John Vreeland
<vreejack@hotmail.com> wrote:
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Because there are fundamentalists in any and every religion. I should
think a devout Muslim would take some offense at your calling him a
Christian.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Some do--the Roman Catholics have more books in their canonical Bible
than Protestants. But every denomination chooses which way to
interpret those scriptures.
This isn't exclusive to Christianity, either.
Lizz 'there are always splinters' Holmans
but the meaning of "fundamentalist" was clear from the context.
"Christian fundamentalist" seemed to be assumed.
A fundamentalist is someone who simply takes everything from the
straight text. Roman Catholics are not fundamentalists because they
do not rely solely on scripture. They have traditions, commentaries,
etc. But Catholics would never reject the scriptures the
fundamentalists are using. The fundamentalists are the only group
that uses an authority shared by all other orthodox (as opposed to
Gnostic, etc.) Christians, which would seem to make them the most
purely "Christian" group to an outsider, such as myself.
Note that fundamentalists need not be literalists. Perhaps the
original poster made that assumption.
__
John Vreeland
If you cannot ever admit to being wrong, then you will never be right.
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 09:10:22 AM |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:26:43 -0400, John Vreeland
<vreejack@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 12 May 2005 11:30:30 -0700, "VoiceOfReason"
<papa_fox@cybertown.com> wrote:
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself. Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews, Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Fundamentalists describe themselves as 'Christian', but do not follow
the teachings of Christ. If their hatred, intolerance and lust for
power are anything to go by, 'Satanist' would be a more apt
description.
Mephisto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
16 May 2005 01:59:40 PM |
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Funny story. Not strictly a satanist, but a Crowleyite pagan I know
slightly asked what all the fuss was about about "Intelligent Design"
last week in her livejournal. After reading a few links posted by
commentators (I cited the 'wedge strategy' document) she concluded that
she didn't want to be associated with ID in any way. I think "Eeeeewww"
was the general tone, in fact.
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| User: "John Vreeland" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 12:48:09 PM |
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On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:10:22 +0100, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:26:43 -0400, John Vreeland
<vreejack@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 12 May 2005 11:30:30 -0700, "VoiceOfReason"
<papa_fox@cybertown.com> wrote:
In Fundamentalism/Creationism, we have a brand of so-called faith that
needs external support to keep from collapsing in on itself. Numerous
books and Internet articles soothe these semi-faithful with fanciful
stories of "scientific evidence" for their fringe interpretation of the
Bible.
To some, such weak faith borders on heresy.
Mired in insecurity, these fundies tried to force their beliefs on
everyone else by forcing Creationism into public school science
classrooms. Stymied by a US Constitution that the Courts rudely
insisted applied equally to all beliefs, they're now trying to sneak
around the intent of the Founding Fathers and circumvent the legal
process by lying about the real intent of ID.
And what about the rest of us? What about the vast majority of
Christian Americans who don't believe in a literal interpretation of
Genesis? For that matter, what about Americans who are Jews, Hindus,
Muslims, etc?
Fundamentalism's answer - Sit down and shut up while we *tell* you what
to believe. Christian values indeed.
It's a sacrilege that these people claim to represent "Christian
America." They are not Christians, and they are not Americans. They
are heretics intent on subverting the free speech and freedom of
religion that made our society strong.
I am a little bit confused as to why you call them fundamentalists on
one hand, but then deny their Christianity on the other. It would
seem that "Fundamentalists" are Christians by definition.
Do your "Christians" have a different set of canonical scriptures?
Fundamentalists describe themselves as 'Christian', but do not follow
the teachings of Christ. If their hatred, intolerance and lust for
power are anything to go by, 'Satanist' would be a more apt
description.
Mephisto
They are following the teaching of their scriptures, the same ones
accepted by all orthodox Christians. I don't see any lust for power
in these scriptures, but they do promote hatred and intolerance. Take
a look at Deuteronomy.
Perhaps if there were still Christian groups which rejected the
Pentateuch and the other books of the O.T. your argument might be more
persuasive, but the Marcionites and Gnostics disappeared long ago. I
hear that there are Gnostics again in--where else?--California, but
given the tendency for New Age Weirdness I doubt it resembles the old
one very much.
__
John Vreeland
If you cannot ever admit to being wrong, then you will never be right.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 01:07:19 PM |
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John Vreeland wrote:
I hear that there are Gnostics again in--where else?--California, but
given the tendency for New Age Weirdness I doubt it resembles the
old one very much.
I was at a dinner party a week ago tonight, and found I was seated
beside a authentic, living, breathiing Gnostic. It was interesting.
He was at terrible pains to explain himself to the rest of the dinner
guests; they didn't seem to "get" the principles of Gnosticism very
well. He seemed quite un-New Aged, I must say.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 06:50:51 PM |
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skyeyes wrote:
John Vreeland wrote:
I hear that there are Gnostics again in--where else?--California, but
given the tendency for New Age Weirdness I doubt it resembles the
old one very much.
I was at a dinner party a week ago tonight, and found I was seated
beside a authentic, living, breathiing Gnostic. It was interesting.
He was at terrible pains to explain himself to the rest of the dinner
guests; they didn't seem to "get" the principles of Gnosticism very
well. He seemed quite un-New Aged, I must say.
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 07:00:07 PM |
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John Wilkins wrote:
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
He did, but allowed as how it was delicious anyway. I thought it quite
apropos that we were having Greek food. ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
13 May 2005 07:16:08 PM |
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skyeyes wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
He did, but allowed as how it was delicious anyway. I thought it quite
apropos that we were having Greek food. ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
He's no gnostic; he's a bleeding Epicurean!
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
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| User: "catshark" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
14 May 2005 11:41:58 AM |
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:16:08 +1000, John Wilkins <j.wilkins1@uq.edu.au>
wrote:
skyeyes wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
He did, but allowed as how it was delicious anyway. I thought it quite
apropos that we were having Greek food. ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
He's no gnostic; he's a bleeding Epicurean!
It's a good thing I'm a Stoic . . .
--
---------------
J. Pieret
---------------
Nunc Id Vides, Nunc Ne Vides
- Unseen University Motto -
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
14 May 2005 06:34:58 PM |
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catshark wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:16:08 +1000, John Wilkins <j.wilkins1@uq.edu.au>
wrote:
skyeyes wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
He did, but allowed as how it was delicious anyway. I thought it quite
apropos that we were having Greek food. ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
He's no gnostic; he's a bleeding Epicurean!
It's a good thing I'm a Stoic . . .
I'm a Democritan. I don't agree with [Plato's] Republicanism.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
14 May 2005 02:13:31 PM |
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catshark wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:16:08 +1000, John Wilkins <j.wilkins1@uq.edu.au>
wrote:
skyeyes wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Did he recognise the unreality of the meal?
He did, but allowed as how it was delicious anyway. I thought it quite
apropos that we were having Greek food. ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
He's no gnostic; he's a bleeding Epicurean!
It's a good thing I'm a Stoic . . .
Essenes to me...
--Jeff
--
Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if
there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason, then that
of blindfolded fear.
--Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Oh Those Wacky Heretics |
16 May 2005 01:57:09 PM |
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They're certainly within the Christian clade or memeplex, and most of
them are Americans under the relevant amendment (14th, I think).
The fact that their behavior is a horrific distortion (in the
traditional 'letter vs. the spirit' mode) of what Americans or
Christians _should_ be doesn't throw them out of either group. It just
makes them very bad ones.
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