| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
30 Jan 2005 01:46:49 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling back the
teaching of evolution in schools.
Bold initiatives to introduce the concept of ?intelligent design?, wrought by a
god or higher being, into theories about Earth?s creation are being sponsored
in towns and communities across America.
Religious fundamentalists ? or ?theocons? ? opposed to Darwinism have adopted
sophisticated tactics enabling them to pass under the political and legal radar
that keeps church separate from state and forbids the promotion of religion in
schools.
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1462123,00.html
J. Spaceman
--
My email address (notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org) is fake. Email sent to it
will only get caught in my spam tarpit.
.
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
30 Jan 2005 08:07:40 AM |
|
|
In article <8uSdnfzziqP0oWHcRVn-jQ@rogers.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling back the
teaching of evolution in schools.
Bold initiatives to introduce the concept of ?intelligent design?, wrought by
a
god or higher being, into theories about Earth?s creation are being sponsored
in towns and communities across America.
Religious fundamentalists ? or ?theocons? ? opposed to Darwinism have adopted
sophisticated tactics enabling them to pass under the political and legal
radar
that keeps church separate from state and forbids the promotion of religion
in
schools.
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1462123,00.html
But where have they succeeded? They keep on trying and keep on getting
slapped down by the courts. Unless Bush gets to pack the Supreme Court
with creationists, it's likely to stay that way.
J. Spaceman
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "Alexander" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
30 Jan 2005 01:11:21 PM |
|
|
"johac" <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-5F338E.00074030012005@news.giganews.com...
In article <8uSdnfzziqP0oWHcRVn-jQ@rogers.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling back
the
teaching of evolution in schools.
Bold initiatives to introduce the concept of ?intelligent design?,
wrought by
a
god or higher being, into theories about Earth?s creation are being
sponsored
in towns and communities across America.
Religious fundamentalists ? or ?theocons? ? opposed to Darwinism have
adopted
sophisticated tactics enabling them to pass under the political and legal
radar
that keeps church separate from state and forbids the promotion of
religion
in
schools.
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1462123,00.html
But where have they succeeded? They keep on trying and keep on getting
slapped down by the courts. Unless Bush gets to pack the Supreme Court
with creationists, it's likely to stay that way.
In many ways juridical success is not important to the ID/YEC agenda. The
fact it goes through a process of high profile challenges in the courts
legitimises it in the eyes of many. The simple fact it's heard in a court
of law gives it the appearance of being a genuine subject for enquiry. Many
of the cases are happening the wrong way round for ID to be resoundly
squashed as well - the process seems to be that ID or some variation on
'teaching the controversy' is introduced (stickers in Biology books, state
House Bills) and is _then_ slapped down by a legal action. In other words
the process is mainly reactive (even in Kansas the school board see-saw saga
the individuals supporting evolutionary theory had to parachute in to repair
the damage done and that little story is obviously far from over).
The difficulty with a reactive process is that it's purely defensive and for
the proponents of ID/YEC ideology they cite it as an example of the evil
secular/humanist/atheist/baby-eating/scientific-cabal/liberal/nazi
conspiracy. The problem for the educational and scientific establishment is
that the resistance to evolutionary models is coming from a significant
grass roots level who are also highly politically active and aware. They
also have faith and an agenda ... in my books this makes them dangerous as
they will not respect laws that are founded on principles they see as
corrupt and anti-Christian. In many ways the court smackdowns are just
another reinforcement of their persecutory neurosis - they lost not because
they were wrong but because the cards were stacked against them.
In terms of legal challenges this argument has been rumbling on in the US
since the 1920's and it's still not dead ... it does in fact seem to be
gaining momentum. To put this in perspective, how many legal challenges or
educational boards have tried to introduce ID/YEC models into public schools
outside the US?
Trust me ... it's pretty quiet over here. We had the Emmanuelle Foundation
farce but parents took to the streets over that one, and with our system
kids would _still_ have to learn about evolution in order to pass national
curriculum standards.
Maintaining watch over the legal vanguard and the work of NCSE and others is
crucial of course, but this is not about legal battles and how that process
is defined or shaped, this is a religious, political and cultural conflict
that has many overlapping boundaries of which the teaching of evolution is
just one facet.
J. Spaceman
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
31 Jan 2005 05:31:37 AM |
|
|
In article <Z15Ld.102$sN4.42@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>,
"Alexander" <alexander.hudson@virgin.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-5F338E.00074030012005@news.giganews.com...
In article <8uSdnfzziqP0oWHcRVn-jQ@rogers.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling back
the
teaching of evolution in schools.
Bold initiatives to introduce the concept of ?intelligent design?,
wrought by
a
god or higher being, into theories about Earth?s creation are being
sponsored
in towns and communities across America.
Religious fundamentalists ? or ?theocons? ? opposed to Darwinism have
adopted
sophisticated tactics enabling them to pass under the political and legal
radar
that keeps church separate from state and forbids the promotion of
religion
in
schools.
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1462123,00.html
But where have they succeeded? They keep on trying and keep on getting
slapped down by the courts. Unless Bush gets to pack the Supreme Court
with creationists, it's likely to stay that way.
In many ways juridical success is not important to the ID/YEC agenda. The
fact it goes through a process of high profile challenges in the courts
legitimises it in the eyes of many. The simple fact it's heard in a court
of law gives it the appearance of being a genuine subject for enquiry. Many
of the cases are happening the wrong way round for ID to be resoundly
squashed as well - the process seems to be that ID or some variation on
'teaching the controversy' is introduced (stickers in Biology books, state
House Bills) and is _then_ slapped down by a legal action. In other words
the process is mainly reactive (even in Kansas the school board see-saw saga
the individuals supporting evolutionary theory had to parachute in to repair
the damage done and that little story is obviously far from over).
I suppose that like politicians, they know how to spin defeat into
victory.
The difficulty with a reactive process is that it's purely defensive and for
the proponents of ID/YEC ideology they cite it as an example of the evil
secular/humanist/atheist/baby-eating/scientific-cabal/liberal/nazi
conspiracy. The problem for the educational and scientific establishment is
that the resistance to evolutionary models is coming from a significant
grass roots level who are also highly politically active and aware. They
also have faith and an agenda ... in my books this makes them dangerous as
they will not respect laws that are founded on principles they see as
corrupt and anti-Christian. In many ways the court smackdowns are just
another reinforcement of their persecutory neurosis - they lost not because
they were wrong but because the cards were stacked against them.
They consider themselves to be right, facts notwithstanding, and
therefore anyone who disagrees with them is a deranged tool of Satan.
In terms of legal challenges this argument has been rumbling on in the US
since the 1920's and it's still not dead ... it does in fact seem to be
gaining momentum. To put this in perspective, how many legal challenges or
educational boards have tried to introduce ID/YEC models into public schools
outside the US?
Very few, but then again this particular brand of religious lunacy seems
peculiar to the USA. Some of the Religious Right think that if they can
destroy the concept of evolution they can destroy what they consider
their arch enemy, Secular Humanism.
Trust me ... it's pretty quiet over here. We had the Emmanuelle Foundation
farce but parents took to the streets over that one, and with our system
kids would _still_ have to learn about evolution in order to pass national
curriculum standards.
The way it should be. Given the current anti science climate in this
country, I fear that whatever advantages we had are slipping away.
Maintaining watch over the legal vanguard and the work of NCSE and others is
crucial of course, but this is not about legal battles and how that process
is defined or shaped, this is a religious, political and cultural conflict
that has many overlapping boundaries of which the teaching of evolution is
just one facet.
Ultimately, it is a cultural battle, but the ground on which the battle
is fought is often in the courtroom. We still have some judges who
interpret our constitution as providing separation of church and state,
but then again, in the current political climate, this might change too.
It should be remembered too, that what the opponents of evolution really
want is not only religious orthodoxy, but control and political power
even more.
J. Spaceman
--
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
31 Jan 2005 08:00:56 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:11:21 GMT, "Alexander"
<alexander.hudson@virgin.net> said in alt.atheism:
In other words the process is mainly reactive
It has to be. Courts can't prohibit people from doing something they
haven't done. They can't rule on cases that haven't been brought.
--
I cannot conceive of a god who rewards and punishes his creatures
or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither
can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives
its physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egotism,
cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eter-
nity of life and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the exist-
ing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a
portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in
nature.
- Albert Einstein, as quoted in _Billions and Billions_, Carl Sagan.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fencingsax" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
14 Feb 2005 08:19:38 PM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling
back the
teaching of evolution in schools.
Bold initiatives to introduce the concept of ?intelligent design?,
wrought by a
god or higher being, into theories about Earth?s creation are being
sponsored
in towns and communities across America.
Religious fundamentalists ? or ?theocons? ? opposed to Darwinism have
adopted
sophisticated tactics enabling them to pass under the political and
legal radar
that keeps church separate from state and forbids the promotion of
religion in
schools.
--------------------------------
Does anyone actually think that our education system is anywhere near
where it should be?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
31 Jan 2005 07:43:05 PM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in America?s
Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area: rolling back the
teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
|
|
|
| User: "John Wilkins" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
31 Jan 2005 11:23:15 PM |
|
|
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London... Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
--
John S. Wilkins AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
And John said, "Let there be lunch", and there was lunch.
And John tasted that it was good.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
01 Feb 2005 10:29:00 PM |
|
|
John Wilkins wrote:
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London... Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Lucky bastards.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Richard Forrest" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
01 Feb 2005 10:47:55 PM |
|
|
John Wilkins wrote:
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W
Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected
area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London...
Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Can they walk and drool at the same time?
--
John S. Wilkins AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
And John said, "Let there be lunch", and there was lunch.
And John tasted that it was good.
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
02 Feb 2005 06:18:07 PM |
|
|
On 1 Feb 2005 14:47:55 -0800, "Richard Forrest"
<richard@plesiosaur.com> wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W
Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected
area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London...
Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Can they walk and drool at the same time?
No, but they can drool and ***** at the same time.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
| User: "george" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
03 Feb 2005 08:20:33 PM |
|
|
In their world that makes them multi talented
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
03 Feb 2005 07:39:46 PM |
|
|
stoney wrote:
On 1 Feb 2005 14:47:55 -0800, "Richard Forrest"
<richard@plesiosaur.com> wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
< snip >
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Can they walk and drool at the same time?
No, but they can drool and ***** at the same time.
"Can" makes it sound like it takes at least a little effort. I think
"do" would be a better word, but still not quite right. Hmm.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
04 Feb 2005 09:13:58 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:39:46 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On 1 Feb 2005 14:47:55 -0800, "Richard Forrest"
<richard@plesiosaur.com> wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
< snip >
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Can they walk and drool at the same time?
No, but they can drool and ***** at the same time.
"Can" makes it sound like it takes at least a little effort.
Point.
I think "do" would be a better word, but still not quite right. Hmm.
What about 'automatically and continually?'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "david ford" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
14 Feb 2005 08:09:33 PM |
|
|
John Wilkins wrote:
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London... Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
Has maff gone around [LM]"behaving like [an] idio[t]"?
Have Humphrey, Dwyer, Dennett, and Dawkins gone around [LM]"behaving
like idiots"?
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-36ptr0F53hkerU1%40individual.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
14 Feb 2005 09:28:33 PM |
|
|
david ford wrote:
[...]
But you're the scientifically illiterate Christian fascist idiot who
wants to challenge science.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Eudaemonic Plague" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
14 Feb 2005 10:24:13 PM |
|
|
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108416513.491094.273260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: david ford wrote:
: [...]
:
: But you're the scientifically illiterate Christian fascist idiot who
: wants to challenge science.
What, HIM a challenge?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Darwin put to flight in Bible Belt |
01 Feb 2005 10:49:13 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:23:15 +1100, (John
Wilkins) wrote:
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
THE Republican ?red states? that voted for President George W Bush in
America?s Bible Belt are claiming their reward in an unexpected area:
rolling back the teaching of evolution in schools.
"Unexpected"? WTF?
< snip >
Unexpected by the relatively informed folk at the Times of London... Not
everyone has encountered the drooling morons of creationism.
The Bush administration and the Congress are lovely examples of
cretinism.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
