| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
24 Feb 2005 08:11:22 PM |
| Object: |
In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Thursday, February 24, 2005
NANCY HAUGHT
The real battle would pit a creationist against an evolutionist on
Saturday night, but the strategy unfolded in a workshop the day
before. "How to Debate an Evolutionist" drew 100 men and women looking
for confidence to a hotel ballroom to hear a decorated hero tell war
stories and offer tips.
The hero was Duane Gish, a biochemist with a doctorate from the
University of California at Berkeley, vice president of the Institute
for Creation Research in El Cajon, Calif., and, he proudly insists,
victor in all 300 debates he's had with evolutionists.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/living/1109163372124960.xml
J. Spaceman
.
|
|
| User: "Roger Coppock" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 02:05:48 AM |
|
|
"The hero was Duane Gish, a biochemist with a
doctorate from the University of California at
Berkeley, vice president of the Institute for
Creation Research in El Cajon, Calif., and, he
proudly insists, victor in all 300 debates he's had
with evolutionists."
Yes, Gish is a true legend in is own mind. I've seen
him utterly defeated in debates, but creationists,
who have rewritten all other sciences to fit their
schemes, must have their own debate scoring system
too.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven J." |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 11:07:26 AM |
|
|
"Roger Coppock" <rcoppock@adnc.com> wrote in message
news:1109318748.438437.28480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"The hero was Duane Gish, a biochemist with a
doctorate from the University of California at
Berkeley, vice president of the Institute for
Creation Research in El Cajon, Calif., and, he
proudly insists, victor in all 300 debates he's had
with evolutionists."
Yes, Gish is a true legend in is own mind. I've seen
him utterly defeated in debates, but creationists,
who have rewritten all other sciences to fit their
schemes, must have their own debate scoring system
too.
When you say, "defeated in debates," do you mean simply that you noticed
that his facts were spurious, his logic erratic, and that he failed to
address his opponent's arguments, or do you mean that a majority of the
audience agreed, after the debate, that he had lost? The winner of a debate
is the one the audience thinks won, whether they understand the issues
discussed, or are willing to reason objectively about them, or not. This
is, of course, one of the reasons that scientific arguments are so rarely
settled by public debates.
-- Steven J.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roger Coppock" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 04:53:16 PM |
|
|
I have seen Gish defeated both on points, and by the audience's favor,
in the same debate. Now, he clames to have never lost a debate,
which is a gross lie.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lt. Kizhe Catson" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 05:25:21 PM |
|
|
Roger Coppock wrote:
I have seen Gish defeated both on points, and by the audience's favor,
in the same debate. Now, he clames to have never lost a debate,
which is a gross lie.
Searching the t.o Archive for "gish debate" turns up some accounts,
including a loss or two.
-- Kizhe
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Dworetsky" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 04:37:49 AM |
|
|
"Lt. Kizhe Catson" <lt.kizhe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:421FB3E1.4050302@gmail.com...
Roger Coppock wrote:
I have seen Gish defeated both on points, and by the audience's favor,
in the same debate. Now, he clames to have never lost a debate,
which is a gross lie.
Searching the t.o Archive for "gish debate" turns up some accounts,
including a loss or two.
-- Kizhe
The correct rule, of course, is to poll the audience before the debate, and
poll them again afterwards. The debater who has changed more minds in his
favour is then the winner. So if the initial audience is 90% creationist
before the debate, and ends up 70% creationist afterwards, then the
evolutionist has won.
This way, any predisposition to one side or the other is removed from the
judgement.
Gish, on the other hand, would regard the 70% decision as a victory for
himself, simply by speaking before an audience heavily predisposed toards
his side.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Dworetsky" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 01:42:10 PM |
|
|
"Lt. Kizhe Catson" <lt.kizhe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:421FB3E1.4050302@gmail.com...
Roger Coppock wrote:
I have seen Gish defeated both on points, and by the audience's favor,
in the same debate. Now, he clames to have never lost a debate,
which is a gross lie.
Searching the t.o Archive for "gish debate" turns up some accounts,
including a loss or two.
-- Kizhe
The correct rule, of course, is to poll the audience before the debate, and
poll them again afterwards. The debater who has changed more minds in his
favour is then the winner. So if the initial audience is 90% creationist
before the debate, and ends up 70% creationist afterwards, then the
evolutionist has won.
This way, any predisposition to one side or the other is removed from the
judgement.
Gish, on the other hand, would regard the 70% decision as a victory for
himself, simply by speaking before an audience heavily predisposed toards
his side.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove "pants" spamblock to send e-mail)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "beagle" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 11:47:01 AM |
|
|
Yes, Gish is a true legend in is own mind. I've seen
him utterly defeated in debates, but creationists,
who have rewritten all other sciences to fit their
schemes, must have their own debate scoring system
too.
And no one notices that the scores are hard-coded BEFORE the debate
begins.
-Karen
.
|
|
|
| User: "TomS" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 12:21:44 PM |
|
|
"On 25 Feb 2005 09:47:01 -0800, in article
<1109353621.036914.89150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, beagle stated..."
Yes, Gish is a true legend in is own mind. I've seen
him utterly defeated in debates, but creationists,
who have rewritten all other sciences to fit their
schemes, must have their own debate scoring system
too.
And no one notices that the scores are hard-coded BEFORE the debate
begins.
With all respect for those scientists who engage in "debates"
with the creationists, there is a victory for the creationists in
the perception that there is something worth debating. You can
imagine the typical audience member saying, "I didn't understand
a word that they were saying, but Dr. Gish sure held his own
against that atheistic evolutionist."
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"... a new kind of phobia which is now widely prevalent among the American
public ... pithecophobia, or the dread of apes - especially the dread of apes as
relatives or ancestors. ... this phobia has become almost pandemic ..."
William K. Gregory, Two Views of the Origin of Man, Science: June 24, 1927
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tracy Hamilton" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 08:34:02 AM |
|
|
"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:rn1t11h7a41682t89dbr7h3825t54fje5c@4ax.com...
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Thursday, February 24, 2005
NANCY HAUGHT
The real battle would pit a creationist against an evolutionist on
Saturday night, but the strategy unfolded in a workshop the day
before. "How to Debate an Evolutionist" drew 100 men and women looking
for confidence to a hotel ballroom to hear a decorated hero tell war
stories and offer tips.
The hero was Duane Gish, a biochemist with a doctorate from the
University of California at Berkeley, vice president of the Institute
for Creation Research in El Cajon, Calif., and, he proudly insists,
victor in all 300 debates he's had with evolutionists.
Wouldn't a workshop devoted to developing a research program
be more useful to so-called scientific creationists?
Tracy P. Hamilton
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Richard Forrest" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
25 Feb 2005 02:36:53 AM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Thursday, February 24, 2005
NANCY HAUGHT
The real battle would pit a creationist against an evolutionist on
Saturday night, but the strategy unfolded in a workshop the day
before. "How to Debate an Evolutionist" drew 100 men and women
looking
for confidence to a hotel ballroom to hear a decorated hero tell war
stories and offer tips.
I'd have thought that Gish's workshop shouldn't last more than 5
minutes. His techniques is quite simple: lie. Don't worry about the
truth, just make up anything which will support your argument. In a
debate with someone who tells the truth, how can you lose?
RF
The hero was Duane Gish, a biochemist with a doctorate from the
University of California at Berkeley, vice president of the Institute
for Creation Research in El Cajon, Calif., and, he proudly insists,
victor in all 300 debates he's had with evolutionists.
-------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/living/1109163372124960.xml
J. Spaceman
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jon Fleming" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 07:12:07 PM |
|
|
On 25 Feb 2005 00:36:53 -0800, "Richard Forrest"
<richard@plesiosaur.com> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Thursday, February 24, 2005
NANCY HAUGHT
The real battle would pit a creationist against an evolutionist on
Saturday night, but the strategy unfolded in a workshop the day
before. "How to Debate an Evolutionist" drew 100 men and women
looking
for confidence to a hotel ballroom to hear a decorated hero tell war
stories and offer tips.
I'd have thought that Gish's workshop shouldn't last more than 5
minutes. His techniques is quite simple: lie. Don't worry about the
truth, just make up anything which will support your argument. In a
debate with someone who tells the truth, how can you lose?
Oh, his technique is *much* more sophisticated than that. It's .. lie
fast and lie often.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 10:35:37 AM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Stupid fucking twats.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 06:03:39 PM |
|
|
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:R5adnXBdt6zIOL3fRVnyjg@pipex.net...
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
I heard this guy speak, on a television show years ago. At first glance, he
seemed like a complete moron. However, it seems that many people like to
listen to what he has to say. Perhaps if I came up with ***** that
supported creationism I could become famous too.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Larry Huntley" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Duane Gish creationist workshop |
26 Feb 2005 09:42:20 PM |
|
|
Fred stepped up to the podium, tapped the forlorn-looking SM57, asked "Is
this thing on?" and, in sci.skeptic, message
news:hqqdnXPt6I4Bk7zfRVn-oA@comcast.com, prounounced:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:R5adnXBdt6zIOL3fRVnyjg@pipex.net...
Scientist Duane Gish helps fellow creationists hone debate skills in
order to best evolutionists
Perhaps if I came up with ***** that
supported creationism I could become famous too.
Don't overlook rich.
- L
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Huntley Beaverton, Oregon
Skep-Ti-CultR Member #130-978649-969 http://www.skepticult.org/
"Skepticult subculture -- the dark underbelly of Usenet" (Jade_Dragon)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defaming you is like defanging a chicken.
- John Griffin to Ed Wollmann, 14 Jan 2005
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
