| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
01 Feb 2005 02:32:06 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
J. Spaceman
.
|
|
| User: "Alan Jeffery" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 08:39:55 PM |
|
|
"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com...
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
From the second page, an interesting comment on cultural factors.
Indicating such "market differientiation" could start just about anywhere.
If correct that is. Any comments?
"Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, said he
thought the great variety of religious groups in the United States led to
competition for congregants. This marketplace environment, he said,
contributes to the politicization of issues like evolution among religious
groups."
I'm aware that some fundy groups here attempt to differentiate by
emphasising their "moral purity" by being "bible believing" and "family
oriented". And one (the Destiny Church) has recently started pushing
creationism.
J. Spaceman
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 06:24:23 AM |
|
|
In article <5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
What I would like to know is how can one teach biology today and not
mention evolution?
J. Spaceman
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
03 Feb 2005 04:33:23 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:24:23 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
What I would like to know is how can one teach biology today and not
mention evolution?
You don't.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Chris Thompson" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 07:23:06 PM |
|
|
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-784884.22242331012005@news.giganews.com:
In article <5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew
she'd get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she
was teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing
the same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be
affixed to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along
with evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen
tells are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
What I would like to know is how can one teach biology today and not
mention evolution?
J. Spaceman
Think Anatomy and Physiology for the health fields.
--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 06:28:37 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns95F098A75B5AEerx99a24zbatTAKEOUTh@128.228.100.230>,
Chris Thompson <cthompson@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-784884.22242331012005@news.giganews.com:
In article <5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew
she'd get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she
was teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing
the same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be
affixed to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along
with evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen
tells are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
What I would like to know is how can one teach biology today and not
mention evolution?
J. Spaceman
Think Anatomy and Physiology for the health fields.
Any of the life sciences.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
11 Feb 2005 10:42:25 AM |
|
|
johac wrote:
In article <5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com>,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for
teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had
just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew
she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing
the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be
affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen
tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
What I would like to know is how can one teach biology today and not
mention evolution?
Why don't the Universities provide science/ Math summer camps? Kids
(and teachers) can then debunk creationism themselves.
J. Spaceman
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
12 Feb 2005 04:46:12 PM |
|
|
"maff" <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote
Why don't the Universities provide science/ Math summer camps? Kids
(and teachers) can then debunk creationism themselves.
We've tried, and interest is much less than cheerleading and
basketball. It's too much work for most kids, and they live in an
anti-science society.
.
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
12 Feb 2005 10:56:41 PM |
|
|
Tim Norfolk wrote:
"maff" <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote
Why don't the Universities provide science/ Math summer camps? Kids
(and teachers) can then debunk creationism themselves.
We've tried, and interest is much less than cheerleading and
basketball. It's too much work for most kids, and they live in an
anti-science society.
It might work if the Universities offered them scholarships. After all,
those kids are going to be cutomers for those Universities in the
future.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
13 Feb 2005 08:46:57 PM |
|
|
maff wrote :
It might work if the Universities offered them scholarships. After
all,
those kids are going to be cutomers for those Universities in the
future.
We do, and the Honors program has grown as a result. The sad part is
that the average student (SAT/ACT scores) is getting worse, even as we
have more good students. I worry for the future.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
13 Feb 2005 10:37:47 PM |
|
|
On 13 Feb 2005 12:46:57 -0800, "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> said
in alt.atheism:
We do, and the Honors program has grown as a result. The sad part is
that the average student (SAT/ACT scores) is getting worse, even as we
have more good students. I worry for the future.
We'll have more good students, but the majority will become uneducable
consumer sheep, just what the supporters of the government want.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
14 Feb 2005 10:31:48 AM |
|
|
Al Klein wrote:
On 13 Feb 2005 12:46:57 -0800, "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> said
in alt.atheism:
We do, and the Honors program has grown as a result. The sad part is
that the average student (SAT/ACT scores) is getting worse, even as
we
have more good students. I worry for the future.
We'll have more good students, but the majority will become
uneducable
consumer sheep, just what the supporters of the government want.
So how does Finland seems to manage it?
Educators Flocking to Finland, Land of Literate Children
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.hmong/msg/61945083a9413903
Top Marks In Class
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5456920/site/newsweek/
A society that values both its teachers and its students
Heaven and Helsinki
http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,5500,1042383,00.html
Today's international league tables for education will show that
Finland leads the world. John Crace went to find out what Britain could
learn from the Finns' success.
Finland boasts comprehensive system where standards soar
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,11812,989312,00.html
Sophisticated English speakers, motivated teachers and educational
system that is top of the world.
Finland
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/1c8532b0cd8d8892
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it
from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
13 Feb 2005 09:19:23 PM |
|
|
Tim Norfolk wrote:
maff wrote :
It might work if the Universities offered them scholarships. After
all,
those kids are going to be cutomers for those Universities in the
future.
We do, and the Honors program has grown as a result. The sad part is
that the average student (SAT/ACT scores) is getting worse, even as
we
have more good students. I worry for the future.
What about virtual all year 'Summer camps'?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Harlequin" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 05:18:21 AM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ian H Spedding" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 10:25:32 AM |
|
|
"Harlequin" <usenet@sdc.cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95EFECDF6AAD0usenet123mmcablecom@68.12.19.6...
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
Trying to change the views of the parents is probably a lost cause which is
why it is so important to insist that evolution is taught in the science
class. It is disgraceful that staff fear censure from their principals
rather than expecting support for teaching good science. It is those
principals who are not fit to keep their jobs.
Ian
.
|
|
|
| User: "Harlequin" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 01:47:57 AM |
|
|
"Ian H Spedding" <harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
news:ctnlf2$lmn$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:
[snip]
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
Trying to change the views of the parents is probably a lost cause
which is why it is so important to insist that evolution is taught in
the science class. It is disgraceful that staff fear censure from
their principals rather than expecting support for teaching good
science. It is those principals who are not fit to keep their jobs.
I think that might be a bit simplistic.
1) The principal is probably not trained in biology or
even science for that matter. Thus it is probably unrealistic
to expect him to understand evolution and its place in
biology and what good science is any more than any
random member of the general public. The principal's
job is administration and one would hope that it is
ability and knowledge of administration is a major
part of the reason he got the job. If he was a former
teacher do recall that there are a lot of subjects
out there: he might have been the one who taught
French and not biology.
2) The principal in many ways works for the parents
and is supposed to be concerned about their concerns.
He also works for the school board which might be
just as anti-evolutionary as the parents. (Indeed
I suspect the school board members are probably
less likely to know science than he is...)
3) The principal might have the same motivations
as those teachers: he is probably inclined to want
confrontations with parents angry about evolution
as the teachers who fail to teach evolution are.
Thus I really don't want to blame the principals
any more than anyone else involved. And in most
cases the solution is probably not going after
anyone's job (though obviously there will be
exceptions...).
The solution will need to be in many forms, some short
term and some very long term.
1) Teachers, principal, school boards, etc. need to
hear people supporting good science education.
That the pressure is not just one way will help
a little.
2) We need to get good science standards. That will
help science teachers out if they can say that the
science standards mandate the teaching of evolution
and that it will be on any achievement test. It would
be good cover for the teachers, the principal, and
so on up the line (well at least until one reaches
those who approve the standards at least).
3) Those who can teach evolution without interference
need to do so strongly, especially college profs.
More evolution, the reasons for accepting evolution,
etc. needs to be taught in introductory courses.
I would encourage such professors to assign "29+
Evidences for Macroevolution" or some other like
materials as required reading. Such can help
when the next generation of parents, teachers,
pricipals, etc. comes along. The reality is that
one really can graduate without strong exposure to evolution.
When people often do graduate without more than
a few classroom hours on evolution, we should not
be surprised that they fail to understand
why it is so important.
4) Course, especially introductory ones, need
to get more emphasis on understanding basic
principals and not memorization of a bunch of
facts which will be forgotten after the test.
5) Of course we need to win court cases, get
people elected, etc.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "RAM" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 04:43:30 AM |
|
|
Ian H Spedding wrote:
"Harlequin" <usenet@sdc.cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95EFECDF6AAD0usenet123mmcablecom@68.12.19.6...
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for
teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had
just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew
she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing
the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be
affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen
tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to
researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
Trying to change the views of the parents is probably a lost cause
which is
why it is so important to insist that evolution is taught in the
science
class.
I agree, but the conundrum is that it is next to impossible
to teach something that conflicts with local norms.
It is disgraceful that staff fear censure from their principals
rather than expecting support for teaching good science. It is those
principals who are not fit to keep their jobs.
The structure of American public education is the problem
not the principal.
The key to understanding American public education is
that teachers, principals and to some extent school
superintendents are largely controlled by the "local"
school board(s). As you may recall teaching evolution
even in Oberlin, Ohio with a scientifically literate
community was done with much trepidation. The
reason is the "local" school boards don't want to deal
with controversy and are often sympathetic to anti-
evolution education.
The solution of course is to dramatically change the
structure of American public education. It is a nineteenth
century agrarian structure that has not evolved to met
the skills and needs of 21st century.
It teaches about 53 mil students at present on a $7,500
per pupil expenditure. This is about 400 bil for the fifty
states and federal flow through monies. Yet it is
desperately underfunded to do what it is asked to do.
A 200 bil economic pump priming would along
with structural changes bring us into the 21st century.
Just about every one believes its not the money or
structure but the teachers.
Ian
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Richard Forrest" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 10:44:09 AM |
|
|
Harlequin wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for
teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had
just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew
she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing
the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be
affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen
tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
Which is also why the creationist movement will not be defeated by
appeals to science, which few people understand well enough to make the
distinction between sound science and scientific-sounding nonsense, or
appeals to logic, which will be drowned out by rhetoric, or appeals to
honesty, because the creationists will lie.
Creationists claim the moral high ground and ownership of Christianity
and have no compunction in using any dishonest means to support their
claim. The way to defeat them is to work to expose them for the liars
they are, and undermine any claims they make to moral superiority. It
is a matter as much for the other Christian churches to take up as the
scientific community: they have just as much, if not more to lose from
a creationist ascendancy.
RF
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 03:30:22 PM |
|
|
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 04:28:14 PM |
|
|
In article <1107271822.020241.221310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> writes:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
Um, beg pardon? That very last confuses me. How so?
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 02:56:26 AM |
|
|
In article <1107271822.020241.221...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"Tim Norfolk" <timsn...@aol.com> writes:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues
in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and
engineering.
Um, beg pardon? That very last confuses me. How so?
-- cary
The Dean's office in Engineering tells us we are too hard on their
students (because we almost keep the standards of 20 years ago), and
the individual professors ask why their students can't do the basic
stuff any more (mainly because the students they are thinking of take
each Calculus course 2+ times).
As for the other sciences (rather like the Wahhabists (sp?) and
American Fundamentalists), they want all the fruits (tools) of
mathematics, without any of the hard work.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 02:56:34 AM |
|
|
In article <1107271822.020241.221...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"Tim Norfolk" <timsn...@aol.com> writes:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues
in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and
engineering.
Um, beg pardon? That very last confuses me. How so?
-- cary
The Dean's office in Engineering tells us we are too hard on their
students (because we almost keep the standards of 20 years ago), and
the individual professors ask why their students can't do the basic
stuff any more (mainly because the students they are thinking of take
each Calculus course 2+ times).
As for the other sciences (rather like the Wahhabists (sp?) and
American Fundamentalists), they want all the fruits (tools) of
mathematics, without any of the hard work.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 03:10:19 PM |
|
|
In article <1107312994.207757.284100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> writes:
In article <1107271822.020241.221...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"Tim Norfolk" <timsn...@aol.com> writes:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues
in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and
engineering.
Um, beg pardon? That very last confuses me. How so?
-- cary
The Dean's office in Engineering tells us we are too hard on their
students (because we almost keep the standards of 20 years ago), and
the individual professors ask why their students can't do the basic
stuff any more (mainly because the students they are thinking of take
each Calculus course 2+ times).
As for the other sciences (rather like the Wahhabists (sp?) and
American Fundamentalists), they want all the fruits (tools) of
mathematics, without any of the hard work.
Ah. I see. Thank you.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tim Norfolk" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
02 Feb 2005 03:05:09 AM |
|
|
In article <1107271822.020241.221...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"Tim Norfolk" <timsn...@aol.com> writes:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues
in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and
engineering.
Um, beg pardon? That very last confuses me. How so?
-- cary
The Dean's office in Engineering tells us we are too hard on their
students (because we almost keep the standards of 20 years ago), and
the individual professors ask why their students can't do the basic
stuff any more (mainly because the students they are thinking of take
each Calculus course 2+ times).
As for the other sciences (rather like the Wahhabists (sp?) and
American Fundamentalists), they want all the fruits (tools) of
mathematics, without any of the hard work.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 04:22:23 PM |
|
|
On 1 Feb 2005 07:30:22 -0800, "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> wrote:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
why did the chicken cross the moebius strip?
to get to the same side....
sorry, it's one of the few math jokes i know...
---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
03 Feb 2005 04:29:51 PM |
|
|
On 1 Feb 2005 07:30:22 -0800, "Tim Norfolk" <timsn274@aol.com> wrote:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
How so?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 07:15:28 PM |
|
|
Tim Norfolk wrote:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
Being a statistician is no picnic either. At least pure mathematics
is akin to poetry, IMHO. Statistics is investigative reporting,
using numbers instead of words.
"Statisticians do it with random deviates!"
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
03 Feb 2005 04:32:29 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:15:28 -0500, Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net>
wrote:
Tim Norfolk wrote:
I just realized why I am so interested in the anti-science push from
the creationists, apart from my general interest in science, and
dislike of the "Dark Ages" mentality.
As a mathematician, I have seen my own subject under attack for my
whole career, not only from the general public, but also colleagues in
other disciplines, including, I'm sad to say, science and engineering.
Being a statistician is no picnic either. At least pure mathematics
is akin to poetry, IMHO. Statistics is investigative reporting,
using numbers instead of words.
And if the stats don't support what you want it to, throw them out and
construct something that does.
"Statisticians do it with random deviates!"
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 01:13:22 PM |
|
|
On 1 Feb 2005 02:44:09 -0800, "Richard Forrest"
<richard@plesiosaur.com> wrote:
Which is also why the creationist movement will not be defeated by
appeals to science
exactly. creationists have us on the defensive by attacking evolution
while never being forced to defend their ideas. after all, everyone
'knows' how creationism works...god did it.
... It
is a matter as much for the other Christian churches to take up as the
scientific community: they have just as much, if not more to lose from
a creationist ascendancy.
right...the significant number of xtians who are creationists
indicates a problem with xtian beliefs and education.
---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sam" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 05:42:26 AM |
|
|
Harlequin wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
And this is why merely winning court cases is not enough.
We can win every court case and teachers will still be
afriad of the consequences.
we need to put the fear of Darwin into them
--
Sam
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Harlequin" |
|
| Title: Re: In the News: Evolution Takes a Back Seat in U.S. Classes |
01 Feb 2005 05:24:42 AM |
|
|
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:5eqtv013u5q97se2hh1igk5690af0ljn6j@4ax.com:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. John Frandsen, a retired zoologist, was at a dinner for teachers
in Birmingham, Ala., recently when he met a young woman who had just
begun work as a biology teacher in a small school district in the
state. Their conversation turned to evolution.
"She confided that she simply ignored evolution because she knew she'd
get in trouble with the principal if word got about that she was
teaching it," he recalled. "She told me other teachers were doing the
same thing."
Though the teaching of evolution makes the news when officials
propose, as they did in Georgia, that evolution disclaimers be affixed
to science textbooks, or that creationism be taught along with
evolution in biology classes, stories like the one Dr. Frandsen tells
are more common.
In districts around the country, even when evolution is in the
curriculum it may not be in the classroom, according to researchers
who follow the issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html
Hey great picture for the article. It shows the NCSE's web
address which might net them a few new members.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
