Religions > Atheism > In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism'
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
28 Oct 2005 05:54:38 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
J. Spaceman
--
My email address (notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org) is fake. Email sent to it
will only get caught in my spam tarpit.
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 07:06:14 AM |
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"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"It is not too much to say that every indication of Design in the Kosmos is so
much evidence against the Omnipotence of the Designer. ... The evidences ... of
Natural Theology distinctly imply that the author of the Kosmos worked under
limitations..." John Stuart Mill, "Theism", Part II
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 12:05:28 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, TomS <TomS_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
What did you expect him to say? "We would have gotten away with it
if not for his slip-up" ?
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 12:29:44 PM |
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"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:05:28 +0000 (UTC), in article
<djtlon$l21$6@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Bobby D. Bryant stated..."
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, TomS <TomS_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
What did you expect him to say? "We would have gotten away with it
if not for his slip-up" ?
The fact that he felt that he had to say something is what
interested me.
What if one of the lawyers for the plaintiffs had said that
about Behe's testimony? That would be troublesome for me.
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"It is not too much to say that every indication of Design in the Kosmos is so
much evidence against the Omnipotence of the Designer. ... The evidences ... of
Natural Theology distinctly imply that the author of the Kosmos worked under
limitations..." John Stuart Mill, "Theism", Part II
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 11:25:33 PM |
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On 28 Oct 2005 10:29:44 -0700, TomS <TomS_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:05:28 +0000 (UTC), in article
<djtlon$l21$6@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, Bobby D. Bryant stated..."
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, TomS <TomS_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
What did you expect him to say? "We would have gotten away with it
if not for his slip-up" ?
The fact that he felt that he had to say something is what
interested me.
What if one of the lawyers for the plaintiffs had said that
about Behe's testimony? That would be troublesome for me.
"Our client pleads insanity, m'lud."
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| User: "John S. Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 07:40:23 AM |
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TomS wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
Given the fools they have called for the defence, and that they aren't
playing to a jury here but an experienced judge, I think that the
crucial phrase, ironic in context, is "I don't think"...
.
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| User: "TomS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 08:41:11 AM |
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"On 28 Oct 2005 05:40:23 -0700, in article
<1130503223.381322.136720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, John S. Wilkins
stated..."
TomS wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said
at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
Given the fools they have called for the defence, and that they aren't
playing to a jury here but an experienced judge, I think that the
crucial phrase, ironic in context, is "I don't think"...
Everybody must read Mike Argento's commentary in the York Daily
Record:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92062/>
I don't want to spoil anyone's reading of this, but I can't
resist quoting a bit - so I'll skip a few lines for "spoler"
protection
From Mike Argento's commentary:
It was like he had a Homer Simpson moment. He was thinking
"Don't say creationism. Don't say creationism. Don't say
creationism." And then he opens his yap and says "creationism."
D'oh!
--
---Tom S. <http://talkreason.org/articles/chickegg.cfm>
"It is not too much to say that every indication of Design in the Kosmos is so
much evidence against the Omnipotence of the Designer. ... The evidences ... of
Natural Theology distinctly imply that the author of the Kosmos worked under
limitations..." John Stuart Mill, "Theism", Part II
.
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| User: "Robert Grumbine" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 09:15:08 AM |
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In article <djt9pn02vf8@drn.newsguy.com>,
TomS <TomS_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
"On 28 Oct 2005 05:40:23 -0700, in article
<1130503223.381322.136720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, John S. Wilkins
stated..."
TomS wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
[snip]
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
Keep in mind, the defense lawyer gets paid in part to say that
even if every single defense witness gets on the stand and agrees
that they think that the judge should grant summary judgement
in the plaintiffs' favor.
Given the fools they have called for the defence, and that they aren't
playing to a jury here but an experienced judge, I think that the
crucial phrase, ironic in context, is "I don't think"...
Everybody must read Mike Argento's commentary in the York Daily
Record:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92062/>
I don't want to spoil anyone's reading of this, but I can't
resist quoting a bit - so I'll skip a few lines for "spoler"
protection
Oh dear. Yes, both YDR articles, definitely, should be read.
[spoiler, or spoler, snipped -- go read the full thing]
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 11:36:07 AM |
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TomS wrote:
"On 28 Oct 2005 05:40:23 -0700, in article
<1130503223.381322.136720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, John S. Wilkins
stated..."
TomS wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said
at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
Given the fools they have called for the defence, and that they aren't
playing to a jury here but an experienced judge, I think that the
crucial phrase, ironic in context, is "I don't think"...
Everybody must read Mike Argento's commentary in the York Daily
Record:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92062/>
I don't want to spoil anyone's reading of this, but I can't
resist quoting a bit - so I'll skip a few lines for "spoler"
protection
From Mike Argento's commentary:
It was like he had a Homer Simpson moment. He was thinking
"Don't say creationism. Don't say creationism. Don't say
creationism." And then he opens his yap and says "creationism."
D'oh!
"The book that was presented to me for biology was laced with
Darwinism from beginning to end. My opinion that it's ok to
teach Darwin, but you have to balance it with something else,
such as Creationism."
It's just an Oxycontin moment.
--Jeff
--
But I venture the challenging statement
that if American democracy ceases to
move forward as a living force, seeking
day and night by peaceful means to
better the lot of our citizens, then
Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously
perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism,
will grow in strength in our land.
--Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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| User: "David H." |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 12:11:42 PM |
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"Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:11m4ks6iov8qm07@corp.supernews.com...
TomS wrote:
"On 28 Oct 2005 05:40:23 -0700, in article
<1130503223.381322.136720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, John S.
Wilkins
stated..."
TomS wrote:
"On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, in article
<MridnUkytN76nv_eRVn-pg@rogers.com>, Jason Spaceman stated..."
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of
what he said
at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his
testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not
know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and
People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part
of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to
a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the
textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?"
Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
There is a bit more about where the money came from in the York
Daily Record article:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92105/>
The defense lawyer said of the testimony, "I don't think it was
damaging at all."
Given the fools they have called for the defence, and that they
aren't
playing to a jury here but an experienced judge, I think that the
crucial phrase, ironic in context, is "I don't think"...
Everybody must read Mike Argento's commentary in the York Daily
Record:
<http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/92062/>
I don't want to spoil anyone's reading of this, but I can't
resist quoting a bit - so I'll skip a few lines for "spoler"
protection
From Mike Argento's commentary:
It was like he had a Homer Simpson moment. He was thinking
"Don't say creationism. Don't say creationism. Don't say
creationism." And then he opens his yap and says "creationism."
D'oh!
"The book that was presented to me for biology was laced with
Darwinism from beginning to end. My opinion that it's ok to
teach Darwin, but you have to balance it with something else,
such as Creationism."
It's just an Oxycontin moment.
The Rush Limbaugh Defense.
David H.
aa #2217
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| User: "Glend" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 11:41:33 AM |
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If fellow creationists berate him for slipping, he only needs to point
to Pandas and People as a really good excuse. Since the word was
"creationism", then was changed to "intelligent design" to obscure who
Behe et al are, how is the man who bought (or was intrumental in the
purchase of) a number of those books supposed to keep the deception
straight at all times?
It's sort of the point of court cases, to catch these people in their
deceptions and obtusensess. I still don't know if Behe is as
incompetent as he appears, or if he just appears that way because he is
trying to claim non-science to be science.
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| User: "Ron O" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 06:46:16 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13014697.htm
J. Spaceman
Creationists take note, these are the guys that claim that they know
what your kids need to learn. They obviously lack some moral
determinant, how can you possibly trust such people with the education
of your kids? Liars and incompetents, not a combination of people that
you can trust.
Who are these people and why do they feel that they have the moral high
ground. Why can't places like the Discovery Institute attract people
that they can be proud of? I just recall that one guy that blatantly
lied to the Texas board that he wasn't affiliated with the Discovery
Institute when one of the board members asked him about it. If you
have to lie about it, should you be associated with such an
organization. People may recall that Meyer told the Ohio board that
teaching ID should be decided at the local level, now, what is the
story? Does anyone believe that Meyer wasn't aware of how bogus ID is
and was? These guys live in a different version of reality than most
people think exists.
Ron Okimoto
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Former school board member denies using word 'creationism' |
28 Oct 2005 06:35:13 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:54:38 -0400, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------
Harvey also pressed Buckingham, who appeared to recall little of what he said at
board meetings, on inconsistencies in his deposition and his testimony
Thursday.
In his deposition earlier this year, Buckingham said he did not know the source
of the $850 donation to buy 60 copies of the book "Of Pandas and People" - an
intelligent design textbook Dover students were referred to as part of the
curriculum policy change.
Then Harvey produced a cancelled check from Buckingham for $850 to a Dover
school administrator clearly marked for the purchase of the textbook and
Buckingham confirmed it came from his church.
"You lied to me in your deposition didn't you Mr. Buckingham?" Harvey said.
"How so?" replied Buckingham.
"When I asked if you knew where the money came from," Harvey said.
"I did not take a collection," he said.
------------------------------------------
Oh dear!
A creationist lying?!
Surely not!
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