Religions > Atheism > In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
04 Jan 2004 12:20:22 PM |
| Object: |
In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
There were bemused looks, but most continued to listen raptly as Bradley
reached his conclusion that human life is not the product of random natural
forces but designed by God, a conclusion that Bradley terms "rational."
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104
NEWS/401040403/1039 or at http://tinyurl.com/2ffa6
J. Spaceman
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| User: "PeteM" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 03:13:21 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> posted
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
I doubt we can put much trust in the author's skill in recognizing
mathematicians, given his description of E=mc^2 as a "calculus
equation".
--
PeteM
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| User: "Dr. Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:20:34 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:13:21 +0000 (UTC), PeteM <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I doubt we can put much trust in the author's skill in recognizing
mathematicians, given his description of E=mc^2 as a "calculus
equation".
Write to him and tell him so:
--
PeteM
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "Mitchell Coffey" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 09:40:42 AM |
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PeteM <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<gkv84JA6rS+$Ewzr@privacy.net>...
Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> posted
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
I doubt we can put much trust in the author's skill in recognizing
mathematicians, given his description of E=mc^2 as a "calculus
equation".
Good catch.
Mitchell Coffey
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| User: "Dr. Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:20:33 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:40:42 +0000 (UTC), (Mitchell
Coffey) wrote:
I doubt we can put much trust in the author's skill in recognizing
mathematicians, given his description of E=mc^2 as a "calculus
equation".
Good catch.
You could send him a note at and point out
the errors.
Mitchell Coffey
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "Steven Carr" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
06 Jan 2004 09:11:45 AM |
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:20:33 +0000 (UTC), (Dr.
Desertphile) wrote:
<skip>
You could send him a note at and point out
the errors.
Mr.McMullen wrote to me saying 'Prof. Behe is a good scientist, and he
knows that the physical evidence for evolution from one species to
another cannot be denied. That is my opinion also.'
Steven Carr
steven@bowness.demon.co.uk
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/
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| User: "Mitchell Coffey" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 10:17:38 PM |
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Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote in message news:<bt9lld$4ipf2$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
{snip]
Donc Dieu existe; répondez!
Mitchell Coffey
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 05:06:09 PM |
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Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
There were bemused looks, but most continued to listen raptly as Bradley
reached his conclusion that human life is not the product of random natural
forces but designed by God, a conclusion that Bradley terms "rational."
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104
NEWS/401040403/1039 or at http://tinyurl.com/2ffa6
Has anyone told this guy that PowerPoint is not a scientific instrument?
--
John Wilkins
"And this is a damnable doctrine" - Charles Darwin, Autobiography
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| User: "caerbannog" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 11:32:28 PM |
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John Wilkins wrote:
Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
......
Read it at http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104
NEWS/401040403/1039 or at http://tinyurl.com/2ffa6
Has anyone told this guy that PowerPoint is not a scientific instrument?
But it's great for polishing turds. That's why it's so popular with
ID proponents...
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| User: "Dr. Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:20:34 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:06:09 +0000 (UTC),
(John Wilkins) wrote:
Has anyone told this guy that PowerPoint is not a scientific instrument?
I told the author of the article that his first assertion regarding
what scientists claim and defend was false; the author wrote back
telling me to not comment on a subject I'm ignoreant about. This is
rather like my telling a child that 4+4 does not equal 16, and being
told I don't know how to add.
--
John Wilkins
"And this is a damnable doctrine" - Charles Darwin, Autobiography
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:33:06 PM |
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Dr. Desertphile <desertphile@cchr.ws> wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:06:09 +0000 (UTC),
(John Wilkins) wrote:
Has anyone told this guy that PowerPoint is not a scientific instrument?
I told the author of the article that his first assertion regarding
what scientists claim and defend was false; the author wrote back
telling me to not comment on a subject I'm ignoreant about. This is
rather like my telling a child that 4+4 does not equal 16, and being
told I don't know how to add.
And aren't you glad you live in such a democratic country that you elect
your curriculum setters without regard to their academic cometence?
--
John Wilkins
"And this is a damnable doctrine" - Charles Darwin, Autobiography
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| User: "Bogdan" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 04:44:37 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
From the article:
-------------------------------
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
A perfect textbook example of a nutcase.
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 02:21:24 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Harlequin" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 04:21:44 PM |
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"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in
news:pan.2004.01.04.20.23.31.954850@mail.utexas.edu:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley
flashed one PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that
the universe was deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is
so profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five
equations," said Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor
University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
Not only that but someone should inform the physicists that fundamental
physics is a solved problem....
Could Bobby's post be considered for PotM? Sometimes a two lines of
writing can be effective. Or do people want a long debunkings for that....
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that they
can't have it both ways.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet" with "harlequin2"
Creationist arguments are like orcs. They are wimpy and
easy to slay. But there just so many of them....
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| User: "Jack Crenshaw" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 08:49:46 PM |
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Harlequin wrote:
"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in
news:pan.2004.01.04.20.23.31.954850@mail.utexas.edu:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley
flashed one PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that
the universe was deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is
so profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five
equations," said Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor
University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
Not only that but someone should inform the physicists that fundamental
physics is a solved problem....
Could Bobby's post be considered for PotM? Sometimes a two lines of
writing can be effective. Or do people want a long debunkings for that....
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that they
can't have it both ways.
Out of idle curiosity ... why not?
You make this statement as though a lot is at stake. You seem to
describe a situation that is on a war footing. I'm wondering why.
Other than the fact that you seem to have a lot invested in being proven
right, what problem do you see in letting the IDists believe whatever
they want to? Just curious.
Jack
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| User: "Steven J." |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 11:12:48 PM |
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"Jack Crenshaw" <jcrens@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b74Kb.20966$lo3.11544@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Harlequin wrote:
"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in
news:pan.2004.01.04.20.23.31.954850@mail.utexas.edu:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley
flashed one PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that
the universe was deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is
so profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five
equations," said Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor
University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
Not only that but someone should inform the physicists that fundamental
physics is a solved problem....
Could Bobby's post be considered for PotM? Sometimes a two lines of
writing can be effective. Or do people want a long debunkings for
that....
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that they
can't have it both ways.
Out of idle curiosity ... why not?
Because ID is as much a political movement as a religious one -- maybe more
so, and far, far more a political movement than a scientific one.
You make this statement as though a lot is at stake. You seem to
describe a situation that is on a war footing. I'm wondering why.
Every attempt to get evolutionary theory out of biology classes in US public
schools, or any sort of creationism in, in the last several years, has made
heavy use of ID arguments. The Discovery Institute people (who want to
"renew science and culture" -- presumably a political goal) send in their
people, and supporters of mainstream science send in theirs, and they
testify against each other in front of legislatures and school boards. It's
not war, exactly, but it's a bigger deal than the local high school football
championship. And finding contradictions in common ID arguments is a
political tool for such political contests.
Other than the fact that you seem to have a lot invested in being proven
right, what problem do you see in letting the IDists believe whatever
they want to? Just curious.
Few people on this newsgroup have that much of a problem with ID proponents
believing what they like (and even fewer would go to significant effort to
stop them from believing it), if believing it was all they were concerned
with. But the problem lies in what they want taught (or not taught) to
other people's children.
Jack
-- Steven J.
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
07 Jan 2004 04:58:44 PM |
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Jack Crenshaw wrote:
Harlequin wrote:
"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in
news:pan.2004.01.04.20.23.31.954850@mail.utexas.edu:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley
flashed one PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that
the universe was deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is
so profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five
equations," said Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor
University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
Not only that but someone should inform the physicists that fundamental
physics is a solved problem....
Could Bobby's post be considered for PotM? Sometimes a two lines of
writing can be effective. Or do people want a long debunkings for that....
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that they
can't have it both ways.
Out of idle curiosity ... why not?
You can't logically say that:
If A, then God,
If not-A, then God,
A AND not-A, therefore God
Besides which, neither assertion are justified. The basic propositions
are questionable.
You make this statement as though a lot is at stake. You seem to
describe a situation that is on a war footing. I'm wondering why.
Some of us just want to do science or (as in my case) support those who
do. The Creationists are the ones who want to use tax dollars to preach
their religion in public school (USA) science classes. There are too few
people who think scientificaly as it is.
Other than the fact that you seem to have a lot invested in being proven
right, what problem do you see in letting the IDists believe whatever
they want to? Just curious.
One: in the US, what they want to do is unconstitutional, so they lie
and manipulate to accomplish their goals of getting Creationism into
science classes.
Two: there are very real consequences of not understanding the world
around us. For one example of the dangers of hostility to science, look
at the AIDS problem in South Africa, where the president believes that
AIDS is not caused by a virus (and only recently, and reluctantly,
agreed to pay for anti-AIDS drug therapy for citizens).
Three: Creationists propogate the false dichotomy that one can be a
scientist or a Christian, but not both.
Four: Professional Creationists are almost certainly knowingly bilking
their audiences; those on the lecture circuit or who write books
deliberately manipulate, distort, and misrepresent science (as their own
credentials) while raking in the bucks from their sheepish fans.
Jack
--
Kermit
Remove _your_inhibitions_ to reply.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 02:10:48 PM |
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On 04 Jan 2004, Jack Crenshaw <jcrens@earthlink.net> screwed up his
face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:b74Kb.20966$lo3.11544@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
Harlequin wrote:
"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in
news:pan.2004.01.04.20.23.31.954850@mail.utexas.edu:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent
Design group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley
flashed one PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that
the universe was deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe
is so profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five
equations," said Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor
University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
Not only that but someone should inform the physicists that
fundamental physics is a solved problem....
Could Bobby's post be considered for PotM? Sometimes a two lines of
writing can be effective. Or do people want a long debunkings for
that....
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that
they can't have it both ways.
Out of idle curiosity ... why not?
You make this statement as though a lot is at stake. You seem to
describe a situation that is on a war footing. I'm wondering why.
Other than the fact that you seem to have a lot invested in being
proven right, what problem do you see in letting the IDists believe
whatever they want to? Just curious.
Oh, they're welcome to believe what they like. What they're *not*
welcome to do is inundate schools with their idiotic drivel and attempt
to drive science back into the stone age. As long as they keep their
foolish babbling personal and don't try to indoctrinate other folks'
children with it, I have no problem with them.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 09:54:00 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:21:44 +0000 (UTC), Harlequin <usenet@cox.net>
posted to alt.atheism:
Good post in any event. We must never let the IDists forget that they
can't have it both ways.
And that they can't have it either way.
--
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Steven Carr" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:46:37 AM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:21:24 +0000 (UTC), "Bobby D. Bryant"
<bdbryant@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design
group says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
"It's complex, so goddidit."
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.
"It's simple, so goddidit."
This is true, but the conclusion only follows if you use a LOT of
colours on your PowerPoint presentation.
But I must admit you have their arguments nailed down. '.... so goddit
it' is the Jepoardy answer. All that is needed is to find the
question. (Actually, any question will do. It is the right answer
anyway)
Steven Carr
steven@bowness.demon.co.uk
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 02:54:03 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
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| User: "Rick Russell" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
08 Jan 2004 10:00:49 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.01.04.20.56.11.34478@way.com>,
Brainfried <no@way.com> wrote:
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
PowerPoint = Ignore
SliTeX = Pay Attention
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| User: "Jon Fleming" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 05:47:51 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC), "Brainfried" <no@way.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/discourse>
--
Replace nospam with group to email
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 06:31:39 PM |
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Jon Fleming <jonf@fleming-nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC), "Brainfried" <no@way.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/discourse>
The Voice of The Master!!!
--
John Wilkins
"And this is a damnable doctrine" - Charles Darwin, Autobiography
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 06:37:27 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:47:51 +0000, Jon Fleming wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC), "Brainfried" <no@way.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/discourse>
--
Replace nospam with group to email
Great link, which leads me to another expression "death by PowerPoint".
Real death in this case.
Too many people spend too much time making the pictures purty <sic> and not
enough time thinking through and organizing what they're going to say.
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| User: "Mark W" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:48:23 AM |
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"Brainfried" <no@way.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.05.00.39.34.215726@way.com...
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:47:51 +0000, Jon Fleming wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC), "Brainfried" <no@way.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed
one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe
was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/discourse>
--
Replace nospam with group to email
Great link, which leads me to another expression "death by PowerPoint".
Real death in this case.
Too many people spend too much time making the pictures purty <sic> and
not
enough time thinking through and organizing what they're going to say.
At my university, we use PowerPoint a lot. It's extremely useful when the
lecturers do it as we get a secondary copy of the notes when it's put up on
the website. We also use it for seminar presentations and it is infinitely
better when you can click once to bring up a complex diagram than spend
twenty minutes drawing it.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 06:25:56 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:47:51 +0000 (UTC), Jon Fleming <jonf@fleming-nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC), "Brainfried" <no@way.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000, Jason Spaceman wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
My ***** meter gets pegged every time someone fires up PowerPoint to
show off "killer slides". "Dazzle them with *****" is all I see.
An elegant explanation can never be replaced with a PowerPoint
presentation.
<http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/discourse>
Also discussed in comp.risks : "Over-reliance on PowerPoint"
http://www.google.com/search?q=comp.risks+%22Over-reliance+on+PowerPoint%22
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| User: "Johnny Bravo" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 12:56:45 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000 (UTC), Jason Spaceman
<I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
Nothing like the substitution of a PowerPoint presentation for
actual evidence.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Bodies attact each other; this simplicity must be the result of
gravity fairies pushing things together. Any stupidity can be arrived
at logicaly if you don't actually think.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
There were bemused looks, but most continued to listen raptly as Bradley
reached his conclusion that human life is not the product of random natural
forces but designed by God, a conclusion that Bradley terms "rational."
Crazy people don't think they are crazy.
--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
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| User: "Bill, The Avender" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
04 Jan 2004 01:08:49 PM |
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In alt.atheism on Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:56:45 GMT, Johnny Bravo
<nospam@no.com> wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000 (UTC), Jason Spaceman
<I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
Nothing like the substitution of a PowerPoint presentation for
actual evidence.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Bodies attact each other; this simplicity must be the result of
gravity fairies pushing things together. Any stupidity can be arrived
at logicaly if you don't actually think.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
There were bemused looks, but most continued to listen raptly as Bradley
reached his conclusion that human life is not the product of random natural
forces but designed by God, a conclusion that Bradley terms "rational."
Crazy people don't think they are crazy.
That's the only way I know I'm sane. ;-)
<it's a paradox, but yet I can't find a single untrue thing in it>
--
L8r,
Bill
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
"Guido regurgitated a squid. Let's eat."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- Berkeley Breathed, "Opus", 11/23/03 -
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
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| User: "Dr. Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
05 Jan 2004 05:20:26 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:20:22 +0000 (UTC), Jason Spaceman
<I@eat.spammers.for.breakfast.com> wrote:
Read it at http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104
NEWS/401040403/1039 or at http://tinyurl.com/2ffa6
I sent a complaint to the author of the article, telling him that
scientists do not assert that the universe, nor life, is the "product"
of "random chance." The author wrote back to me (an hour ago) telling
me I should cease objecting to that which I do not understand. His
actual words were:
"Before you claim that the press is inaccurate, you should do
your homework."
His e-mail message, in full:
From:
Mr. Rice --
Thank you for your e-mail.
I'm not familiar with your organization or your credentials, but as to your
assertion that no scientist has ever claimed the universe was the product
of chance, I am puzzled. Particularly some of the scientists you named --
especially Dawkins, but also Gould and others -- subscribe to a materialist
philosophy of science, which states that the physical laws and properties
of the universe occurred and evolved in an entirely random fashion.
Dawkins has been quoted as saying that if the events of the universe,
starting with the Big Bang, were replayed a million times, it is unlikely
that life as we know it would exist in any one of those million tries.
If that's not a position embracing chance, I don't know what is.
It is precisely this emphasis on randomness and chance that so disturbs people of
faith -- lay persons such as Mr. Spearman, but also Christian scientists
such as Prof. Behe -- and that is why they are engaged in the (admirable,
in my view) enterprise of trying to reconcile the findings of science with
what they believe.
Before you claim that the press is inaccurate, you should do your homework.
Regards,
Cary McMullen
Religion editor
The Ledger
Lakeland, Fla.
My reply was:
Mr. Rice --
Thank you for your e-mail.
Greetings. Thank you for the reply.
I'm not familiar with your organization or your credentials, but as to your
assertion that no scientist has ever claimed the universe was the product
of chance, I am puzzled. Particularly some of the scientists you named --
especially Dawkins, but also Gould and others -- subscribe to a materialist
philosophy of science, which states that the physical laws and properties
of the universe occurred and evolved in an entirely random fashion.
Please produce a valid quote from any of these scientists who have made
such a claim. (Please note: you cannot do so.)
Science is predicated upon the NONRANDOM nature of the universe: the four
forces and all phenomena in the universe follow precise, non-random behavior.
No modern scientist (within the last 100 years and more) would ever claim a
"random" component, other than certain quantum behavior. Indeed, quantum
non-linear indeterminism is still utterly non-random cumulatively.
Dawkins has been quoted as saying that if the events of the universe,
starting with the Big Bang, were replayed a million times, it is unlikely
that life as we know it would exist in any one of those million tries.
Exactly true: he is correct.
If that's not a position embracing chance, I don't know what is.
Ah, okay, I see the problem. You have equated chaos with "random
chance." Please understand that the two are not the same. Randomness
does not occure in nature, other than MAYBE cvertain sub-atomic
interactions (and even they are cumulatively deterministic). All
events in the universe follow precise rules, and therefore all
events are deterministic; that does not mean they cannot be chaotic.
Evolutionary processes are not random: they are chaotic--- two
vastly different things.
It is
precisely this emphasis on randomness and chance that so disturbs people of
faith -- lay persons such as Mr. Spearman, but also Christian scientists
such as Prof. Behe -- and that is why they are engaged in the (admirable,
in my view) enterprise of trying to reconcile the findings of science with
what they believe.
Certainly reverends are "disturbed" upon finding their beliefs poorly
grounded upon the facts. This is why their opinions on subjects of
science are, as they should be, ignored.
By the way, Dr. Behe has often said he does not agree with Young Earth
Creationists. He is also wrong about his odd "Irreducible Complexity"
beliefs: his IC argument is based upon personal ignorance, which is a
very weak argument indeed.
Before you claim that the press is inaccurate, you should do your homework.
Please do not attempt an insult where it does not apply. You are 100%
wrong when you assert scientists believe the universe and life is the
result of "random chance."
Regards,
Cary McMullen
Religion editor
The Ledger
Lakeland, Fla.
--
"To the bat tank!" --- Tank Girl
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| User: "X THEIST X" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God |
13 Jan 2004 04:21:43 PM |
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Subject: In the News: Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: 04/01/2004 1:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <bt9lld$4ipf2$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>
'Group Supports Idea Universe Is Designed by God: Intelligent Design group
says life's complexity proves an intricate plan.'
From the article:
-------------------------------
In a meeting room of the Marriott in Lake Mary, Walter Bradley flashed one
PowerPoint screen after another to build his case that the universe was
deliberately planned.
"An orderly universe is one described by mathematics. The universe is so
profoundly elegant in form, it can be described in five equations," said
Bradley, professor of engineering at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. A
set of five calculus equations appears on the screen, including Einstein's
famous e = mc2.
Apparently not many in the audience of more than 200 were mathemeticians.
There were bemused looks, but most continued to listen raptly as Bradley
reached his conclusion that human life is not the product of random natural
forces but designed by God, a conclusion that Bradley terms "rational."
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104
NEWS/401040403/1039 or at http://tinyurl.com/2ffa6
J. Spaceman
Even scientists are now saying that our universe shows the handiwork of God
and that God has left His fingerprints in nature for us to notice and detect
his enormous power and magnificent and masterful skill in creating us, humble
humans. Science is leading to the only ''rational'' and logical explanation for
what we see in the universe, and that explanation is none other than God
Almighty.
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