| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
27 Nov 2005 06:00:19 AM |
| Object: |
In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------
By THOMAS VINCIGUERRA
Published: November 27, 2005
INTELLIGENT design isn't the only flashpoint in the battle over
religion in the nation's classrooms. On Dec. 12, the Federal District
Court in Los Angeles will hear a lawsuit filed by a consortium of
Christian high schools against the University of California system for
refusing to credit some of their courses when their students apply for
admission.
Among those courses are "Christianity's Influence in American History"
and "Christianity and American Literature," both of which draw on
textbooks published by Bob Jones University of Greenville, S.C., which
describes itself as having stood for "the absolute authority of the
Bible since 1927."
The plaintiffs, the Association of Christian Schools International,
which represents more than 800 schools in California, and the Calvary
Chapel Christian School of Murrieta, Calif., contend that their
students are being discriminated against because of their religious
beliefs. The university system counters that it has the right to set
its own standards. Here are excerpts from the disputed texts. . . .
... . ."Physics for Christian Schools," by R. Terrance Egolf and Linda
Shumate (Bob Jones University, 2004), addresses the question, "What is
Christian about physics?"
Some people have developed the idea that higher mathematics and
science have little to do with the Bible or Christian life. They think
that because physics deals with scientific facts, or because it is not
pervaded with evolutionary ideas, there is no need to study it from a
Christian perspective. This kind of thinking ignores a number of
important facts to the Christian: First, all secular science is
pervaded by mechanistic, naturalistic and evolutionistic philosophy.
Learning that the laws of mechanics as they pertain to a baseball in
flight are just the natural consequences of the way matter came
together denies the wisdom and power of our Creator God. ... Second,
physics as taught in the schools of the world contradicts the
processes that shaped the world we see today. Trying to believe both
secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/weekinreview/27vinciguerra.ART.html
(get a login & password at
http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com)
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 10:41:50 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:ee7jo1dnd3r1jqnofe64aejtms28i50apl@4ax.com...
From the article:
[...]
Some people have developed the idea that higher mathematics and
science have little to do with the Bible or Christian life. They think
that because physics deals with scientific facts, or because it is not
pervaded with evolutionary ideas, there is no need to study it from a
Christian perspective. This kind of thinking ignores a number of
important facts to the Christian: First, all secular science is
pervaded by mechanistic, naturalistic and evolutionistic philosophy.
Learning that the laws of mechanics as they pertain to a baseball in
flight are just the natural consequences of the way matter came
together denies the wisdom and power of our Creator God. ... Second,
physics as taught in the schools of the world contradicts the
processes that shaped the world we see today. Trying to believe both
secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word.
There used to be a word for these kind of people, and that word was
"cultist". Ordinary Americans used to be wary of cults, and would even go so
far as to attempt "deprogramming" on afflicted family members or friends.
Now the cultists are mainstream. How did that happen?
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 08:47:22 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:ee7jo1dnd3r1jqnofe64aejtms28i50apl@4ax.com...
From the article:
Searching the article I could not find the string "dickinson".
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| User: "Martin Hutton" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
28 Nov 2005 09:44:33 AM |
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On 27-Nov-2005, "Ike" <accordiondocxyzxyzxyz@mindspring.com> wrote:
"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:ee7jo1dnd3r1jqnofe64aejtms28i50apl@4ax.com...
From the article:
Searching the article I could not find the string "dickinson".
It's on the second page of Vinciguerra's article.
--
Martin Hutton
"The truths of religion are never so well understood as
by those who have lost the power of reasoning."
...Voltaire, "Philosophical Dictionary" 1764
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| User: "Al" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
28 Nov 2005 10:05:01 AM |
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"Trying to believe both secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a
state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word. "
Wow, what about secular economics? Would Bob Jone's University stay
solvent if there was a 'confusion' about the Bible and Wall Street?
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| User: "Nightshade" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
28 Nov 2005 06:23:18 PM |
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On 28 Nov 2005 08:05:01 -0800, "Al" <aajiv@flash.net> wrote:
"Trying to believe both secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a
state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word. "
I find that, hilarious.
How can faith in an almighty god, be threatened, by a few testable
facts from what is supposedly, it's own creation?
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
28 Nov 2005 07:08:39 PM |
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Nightshade wrote:
How can faith in an almighty god, be threatened, by a few testable
facts from what is supposedly, it's own creation?
How can something that does not exist be threatened?
Bob Kolker
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| User: "noctiluca" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 12:16:47 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------
By THOMAS VINCIGUERRA
Published: November 27, 2005
INTELLIGENT design isn't the only flashpoint in the battle over
religion in the nation's classrooms. On Dec. 12, the Federal District
Court in Los Angeles will hear a lawsuit filed by a consortium of
Christian high schools against the University of California system for
refusing to credit some of their courses when their students apply for
admission.
Among those courses are "Christianity's Influence in American History"
and "Christianity and American Literature," both of which draw on
textbooks published by Bob Jones University of Greenville, S.C., which
describes itself as having stood for "the absolute authority of the
Bible since 1927."
The plaintiffs, the Association of Christian Schools International,
which represents more than 800 schools in California, and the Calvary
Chapel Christian School of Murrieta, Calif., contend that their
students are being discriminated against because of their religious
beliefs. The university system counters that it has the right to set
its own standards. Here are excerpts from the disputed texts. . . .
.. . ."Physics for Christian Schools," by R. Terrance Egolf and Linda
Shumate (Bob Jones University, 2004), addresses the question, "What is
Christian about physics?"
Some people have developed the idea that higher mathematics and
science have little to do with the Bible or Christian life. They think
that because physics deals with scientific facts, or because it is not
pervaded with evolutionary ideas, there is no need to study it from a
Christian perspective. This kind of thinking ignores a number of
important facts to the Christian: First, all secular science is
pervaded by mechanistic, naturalistic and evolutionistic philosophy.
Learning that the laws of mechanics as they pertain to a baseball in
flight are just the natural consequences of the way matter came
together denies the wisdom and power of our Creator God. ... Second,
physics as taught in the schools of the world contradicts the
processes that shaped the world we see today. Trying to believe both
secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If one can read the above without having a chill run up the spine then
I suggest a check of vitals is in order. This is an excellent indicator
of what awaits the world of reason if thoughtless zealots are unopposed
in creating an epistemological equivalency between facts derived from
scientific methodology and "facts" born of personal faith.
It begins with a meager plea for "academic freedom" ("Good golly, don't
be so alarmist! It's just a brief disclaimer") and ends with a
redefinition of reality.
Robert
Read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/weekinreview/27vinciguerra.ART.html
(get a login & password at
http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com)
J. Spaceman
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| User: "John Burton" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 11:57:49 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------
By THOMAS VINCIGUERRA
Published: November 27, 2005
[snip]
Some people have developed the idea that higher mathematics and
science have little to do with the Bible or Christian life. They think
that because physics deals with scientific facts, or because it is not
pervaded with evolutionary ideas, there is no need to study it from a
Christian perspective. This kind of thinking ignores a number of
important facts to the Christian: First, all secular science is
pervaded by mechanistic, naturalistic and evolutionistic philosophy.
Learning that the laws of mechanics as they pertain to a baseball in
flight are just the natural consequences of the way matter came
together denies the wisdom and power of our Creator God. ... Second,
physics as taught in the schools of the world contradicts the
processes that shaped the world we see today. Trying to believe both
secular physics and the Bible leaves you in a state of confusion that
will weaken your faith in God's Word.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
One wonders how far such concepts can go. What's next? Fundamentalist
Christian cooking, or plumbing? Knitting? Christian
how-to-cross-the-street? (Presumably this would involve putting on
blinders, inserting earplugs, then praying to God and asking Him to tell
you if it is safe, rather than looking both ways.)
John
Read it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/weekinreview/27vinciguerra.ART.html
(get a login & password at
http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com)
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Part_Time_Troll" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 01:43:30 PM |
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John Burton <jrhoburton@comcast.net> in news:65ydnUxRuK8HbhTenZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com:
plumbing
yes, since plumbing is pervaded by physics and 'naturalistic' concepts. ("flush it *down*")
perhaps "problems" with mechanics may have led to that screwdriver being driven through "bob jones" brain.
btw, was there ever a "bob jones"? the name sounds as fake as "tooth fairy" or "santa claus". and does anyone really have an
uncle named "bob"?
--
http://harpers.org/ButYouCanCallMeIl.html
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| User: "Deadrat" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 03:02:13 PM |
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"Part_Time_Troll" <Part_Time_Troll@D_Bridge.Com> wrote in message
news:Xns971B79D6135ADdbr1dg3@64.85.239.19...
John Burton <jrhoburton@comcast.net> in news:65ydnUxRuK8HbhTenZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com:
plumbing
yes, since plumbing is pervaded by physics and 'naturalistic' concepts. ("flush it *down*")
perhaps "problems" with mechanics may have led to that screwdriver being driven through "bob
jones" brain.
btw, was there ever a "bob jones"? the name sounds as fake as "tooth fairy" or "santa claus".
and does anyone really have an
uncle named "bob"?
Not only was there a Bob Jones, who gave his name to the university and its abbreviation BJU
(Dontchaya just love it!), but
there was a Bob Jones II and III. The school is known for the strictness and perversity of its
rules, which used to dwell on
the racial.
Deadrat
--
http://harpers.org/ButYouCanCallMeIl.html
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| User: "Radix2" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 02:06:06 PM |
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John Burton wrote:
<snip>
Christian how-to-cross-the-street? (Presumably this would involve putting on
blinders, inserting earplugs, then praying to God and asking Him to tell
you if it is safe, rather than looking both ways.)
John
Funnily enough, when I was in Egypt for a brief trip there was a huge
problem of people just stepping into traffic. When I asked the taxi
driver why the pedestrians didn't take care, he shrugged and said "If
God wills it" (can't remember the exact phrase, but the expression was
basically that Allah will look after them, or not and if not then there
is a higher plan for you)...
This also extended to the way the taxi was piloted. My hair still
stands on end when I think about it. :-)
Lovely people though.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 12:02:36 PM |
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Kind of makes me wonder what physics texts they use in a madrassas.
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| User: "Ian H Spedding" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 12:50:22 PM |
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wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder what physics texts they use in a madrassas.
I'm sure that, when it comes to designing and building bombs, they use
secular rather than Islamic physics.
Just as I'm sure that most Christians, when boarding an aircraft, would
rather it were designed according to all the theories of secular
physics rather than just those bits which can be reconciled with a
literal reading of the Bible.
And just as I'm sure that most believers, regardless of faith, would
demand that, if - <insert appropriate deity here> forbid - their child
were to fall ill, it would be given the best treatment that
conventional medicine has to offer.
Ian
--
Ian H Spedding
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
27 Nov 2005 12:54:39 PM |
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wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder what physics texts they use in a madrassas.
-Flying Carpets for Dummies-.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Al" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: Here's the Problem With Emily Dickinson |
28 Nov 2005 10:11:03 AM |
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Man, I wish all these fundies would become Shakers (The United Society
of Believers),
in a few generations we would be rid of them.
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