| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
26 Feb 2004 04:55:28 PM |
| Object: |
In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
From the article:
------------------------------
Darby weighs the consequences of "Intelligent Design"
by Josh Mahan
Religiously motivated questioning of evolution isn?t considered textbook
science yet, at least not in Darby?s educational curriculum. But on March
8, the five-member school board will make the heavy decision of what
subject matter to offer in science classes to the next generation of
students.
The first reading of the proposed policy change produced three days of
public comment and resulted in a 3?2 decision from the board that has
divided the community. As Darby gears up for a final reading of the policy
changes, talk around town doesn?t stray far from the topic.
It?s core conversation in the teachers? lunchroom. Girls? basketball games
have morphed into strategy sessions for parents and teachers. There?s even
a curious New York Times reporter holed up in Bud & Shirley?s Motel.
Most important for the school is the rumor awash around the south end of the
Bitterroot that as many as 30 families may want to yank their children from
the Darby school system if the proposal passes. Aware of what could prove a
financially (the school receives about $5,000 per student each year) and
emotionally devastating blow to the system, school staff are wary of the
school board bulling ahead with an ?Intelligent Design? curriculum without
understanding the ramifications of its actions.
--------------------------------
Read the rest at http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=3881
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Frank J" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
27 Feb 2004 12:33:30 PM |
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Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<c1ltpb$1kq5fp$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
From the article:
(snip)
I could not open your link, but I like the title of the thread.
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
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| User: "Stanley Friesen" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 09:06:16 AM |
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(Frank J) wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<c1ltpb$1kq5fp$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
From the article:
(snip)
I could not open your link, but I like the title of the thread.
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
I suspect he would more likely say that science is not what he is here
to talk about, and that science does not change the spiritual truths he
is teaching.
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
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| User: "Louann Miller" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 12:10:24 PM |
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On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:06:16 +0000 (UTC), Stanley Friesen
<sarima@friesen.net> wrote:
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
I suspect he would more likely say that science is not what he is here
to talk about, and that science does not change the spiritual truths he
is teaching.
And possibly that science bashing is just another way (like praying on
the street corners that you may be seen by men, or like the letter of
the law vs. the spirit) of not facing those spiritual truths -- how IS
that whole 'do unto the least of these' business coming along?
.
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| User: "Richard Forrest" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 01:53:06 PM |
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Stanley Friesen <sarima@friesen.net> wrote in message news:<7ik640lql026v33irkpi6qvnauaobti6ev@4ax.com>...
fnci@comcast.net (Frank J) wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<c1ltpb$1kq5fp$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
From the article:
(snip)
I could not open your link, but I like the title of the thread.
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
I suspect he would more likely say that science is not what he is here
to talk about, and that science does not change the spiritual truths he
is teaching.
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
I'm certain that he wouldn't be teaching that it's okay to lie or
commit any other sin once you're a "saved believer" because you've
booked yourself a place in heaven.
I'm also pretty sure that he would be very angry with the people who
use his name to peddle lies for commercial gain. He had rather strong
words to say about people exploiting religion for commericial
purposes.
RF
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| User: "Stanley Friesen" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 08:50:25 PM |
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(Richard Forrest) wrote:
Stanley Friesen <sarima@friesen.net> wrote in message news:<7ik640lql026v33irkpi6qvnauaobti6ev@4ax.com>...
fnci@comcast.net (Frank J) wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<c1ltpb$1kq5fp$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
From the article:
(snip)
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
I suspect he would more likely say that science is not what he is here
to talk about, and that science does not change the spiritual truths he
is teaching.
I'm certain that he wouldn't be teaching that it's okay to lie or
commit any other sin once you're a "saved believer" because you've
booked yourself a place in heaven.
Certainly not. He was quite firm about the need for righteousness. Of
course he was equally explicit about forgiveness.
I'm also pretty sure that he would be very angry with the people who
use his name to peddle lies for commercial gain. He had rather strong
words to say about people exploiting religion for commericial
purposes.
Yes, indeed. What he would say about such would be quite harsh indeed.
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
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| User: "Richard Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 12:18:00 PM |
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Stanley Friesen wrote:
fnci@comcast.net (Frank J) wrote:
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message news:<c1ltpb$1kq5fp$1@ID-219258.news.uni-berlin.de>...
From the article:
(snip)
I could not open your link, but I like the title of the thread.
There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus were anything as he is
portrayed by mainstream Christianity, that he would teach evolution
and only evolution. Of course he would also encourage students to
browse the Talk Origins archive to see what the real scientific
contoversies are, how evolution is misrepresented, and how mainstream
science responds to both.
I suspect he would more likely say that science is not what he is here
to talk about, and that science does not change the spiritual truths he
is teaching.
The Beatitudes say that those who are persecuted in Jesus' name will be
blessed; but not those who lie in Jesus' name.
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| User: "R.Schenck" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
26 Feb 2004 06:20:59 PM |
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:55:28 +0000 (UTC), Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------
Darby weighs the consequences of "Intelligent Design"
by Josh Mahan
Religiously motivated questioning of evolution isn?t considered textbook
science yet, at least not in Darby?s educational curriculum. But on March
8, the five-member school board will make the heavy decision of what
subject matter to offer in science classes to the next generation of
students.
The first reading of the proposed policy change produced three days of
public comment and resulted in a 3?2 decision from the board that has
divided the community. As Darby gears up for a final reading of the policy
changes, talk around town doesn?t stray far from the topic.
It?s core conversation in the teachers? lunchroom. Girls? basketball games
have morphed into strategy sessions for parents and teachers. There?s even
a curious New York Times reporter holed up in Bud & Shirley?s Motel.
Most important for the school is the rumor awash around the south end of the
Bitterroot that as many as 30 families may want to yank their children from
the Darby school system if the proposal passes. Aware of what could prove a
financially (the school receives about $5,000 per student each year) and
emotionally devastating blow to the system, school staff are wary of the
school board bulling ahead with an ?Intelligent Design? curriculum without
understanding the ramifications of its actions.
--------------------------------
Read the rest at http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=3881
snip
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
.
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| User: "Rob May" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
26 Feb 2004 10:38:26 PM |
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"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
27 Feb 2004 12:09:48 AM |
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In article <ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
"Rob May" <roblitespeed@hotmail.com> wrote:
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
*
From the point of view of the Catholic priest, it means, "No child's
behind left."
earle
*
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: AQOTM Nomination |
29 Feb 2004 09:58:05 AM |
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 06:09:48 +0000 (UTC), Earle Jones
<earle.jones@comcast.net>, Message ID:
<earle.jones-3A1DF4.21382826022004@netnews.comcast.net> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach?
In article <ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
"Rob May" <roblitespeed@hotmail.com> wrote:
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
/begin
*
From the point of view of the Catholic priest, it means, "No child's
behind left."
earle
*
/end
Seconds?
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM Nomination |
29 Feb 2004 03:53:49 PM |
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stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 06:09:48 +0000 (UTC), Earle Jones
<earle.jones@comcast.net>, Message ID:
<earle.jones-3A1DF4.21382826022004@netnews.comcast.net> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach?
In article <ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
"Rob May" <roblitespeed@hotmail.com> wrote:
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
/begin
*
From the point of view of the Catholic priest, it means, "No child's
behind left."
earle
*
/end
Seconds?
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
With a bit of trepidation, seconded.
--
"There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher-
the clergyman." [Victor Hugo]
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM Nomination |
03 Mar 2004 04:15:20 AM |
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In article <K5qdncLE7IHswt_dRVn-gQ@comcast.com>,
Tink <kjgrish@comcast.net> wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 06:09:48 +0000 (UTC), Earle Jones
<earle.jones@comcast.net>, Message ID:
<earle.jones-3A1DF4.21382826022004@netnews.comcast.net> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach?
In article <ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
"Rob May" <roblitespeed@hotmail.com> wrote:
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
/begin
*
From the point of view of the Catholic priest, it means, "No child's
behind left."
earle
*
/end
Seconds?
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
With a bit of trepidation, seconded.
Recorded.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
29 Feb 2004 09:49:29 AM |
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
29 Feb 2004 10:10:24 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
01 Mar 2004 09:59:33 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104440v8rtindf3@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
Not quite, unless you were able to take tests over and over and over
again until even the "class rock" passed.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 08:16:25 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104440v8rtindf3@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
Not quite, unless you were able to take tests over and over and over
again until even the "class rock" passed.
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
.
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 09:35:02 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 10:12:19 AM |
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Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
They tried that in Florida and got caught.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
.
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 10:38:31 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:12:19 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
They tried that in Florida and got caught.
At least a couple of school districts in Texas have as well.
Given that these stories tend not to make the national news, and how
careless I am about following the local news, I suspect there has been a
heck of a lot of it going on if I know about this many.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 11:49:04 AM |
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Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:12:19 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
They tried that in Florida and got caught.
At least a couple of school districts in Texas have as well.
Given that these stories tend not to make the national news, and how
careless I am about following the local news, I suspect there has been a
heck of a lot of it going on if I know about this many.
No doubt, given the hostility that the teachers' unions show towards
actually being accountable for their performance.
On the other hand, it has given the school boards a lever to get needed
money for physical plant maintenance and textbooks, etc.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 01:40:26 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:49:04 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:12:19 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the
teachers' attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade
to make a school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
They tried that in Florida and got caught.
At least a couple of school districts in Texas have as well.
Given that these stories tend not to make the national news, and how
careless I am about following the local news, I suspect there has been
a heck of a lot of it going on if I know about this many.
No doubt, given the hostility that the teachers' unions show towards
actually being accountable for their performance.
Actually, in the ones I know about it was the school administrations
rather than the teachers who cooked the books. And it was more about
maintaining current levels of funding than about academic accountability.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 02:00:39 PM |
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Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:49:04 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:12:19 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000, Fred Stone wrote:
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the
teachers' attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade
to make a school administration concentrate on the basics.
Or cook the books, which seems to be the easier solution.
They tried that in Florida and got caught.
At least a couple of school districts in Texas have as well.
Given that these stories tend not to make the national news, and how
careless I am about following the local news, I suspect there has been
a heck of a lot of it going on if I know about this many.
No doubt, given the hostility that the teachers' unions show towards
actually being accountable for their performance.
Actually, in the ones I know about it was the school administrations
rather than the teachers who cooked the books. And it was more about
maintaining current levels of funding than about academic accountability.
The tests had tied increased funding to getting a good grade on academic
performance, which did lead to an incentive to cheat. And with the
teachers being hostile to the whole idea of academic accountability,
that makes it all the easier.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "Nivlem" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
03 Mar 2004 07:03:37 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
The tests had tied increased funding to getting a good grade on academic
performance, which did lead to an incentive to cheat. And with the
teachers being hostile to the whole idea of academic accountability,
that makes it all the easier.
Academic accountability is a fad. It comes, it goes, nothing changes.
The kids don't give a damn about the tests, either, and often
deliberately tank them. Meaningful numbers are not generated when half
the class races through the test marking random answers, so as to go on
an extended lunch.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
04 Mar 2004 07:43:28 AM |
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Nivlem wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
The tests had tied increased funding to getting a good grade on academic
performance, which did lead to an incentive to cheat. And with the
teachers being hostile to the whole idea of academic accountability,
that makes it all the easier.
Academic accountability is a fad. It comes, it goes, nothing changes.
The kids don't give a damn about the tests, either, and often
deliberately tank them. Meaningful numbers are not generated when half
the class races through the test marking random answers, so as to go on
an extended lunch.
That's a nice excuse for a bunch of teachers who can't handle being
accountable for their work.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "Nivlem" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
04 Mar 2004 06:34:08 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Academic accountability is a fad. It comes, it goes, nothing changes.
The kids don't give a damn about the tests, either, and often
deliberately tank them. Meaningful numbers are not generated when half
the class races through the test marking random answers, so as to go on
an extended lunch.
That's a nice excuse for a bunch of teachers who can't handle being
accountable for their work.
There's this interesting concept of tenure that seems to have made its
way down even to the elementary schools. About the only things you can
fire a teacher for once their probationary period has passed are murder,
child molesting or selling heroin to the students. Therefore, any
accountability scheme is an illusion. It just makes for extra time
wasted shuffling papers, and extra class time wasted making kids take
tests they don't have any stake in passing. There is also the unfairness
of holding anyone accountable for the poor results at some schools. When
the kids are living in homeless shelters, war zone housing projects, or
crackhouses, and both parents are functionally illiterate drug addicts,
they simply aren't in any position to learn anything but how to duck and
cover during a drive-by. It has also become very difficult to kick
incredibly disruptive students out of school, thanks to the ADA, and
some irresponsible, lawsuit-happy parents. Try learning long division
while some ***** in the back is screaming abuse and throwing little
balls of paper made from leaves torn from his textbooks all over the
room. Sure, a teacher can send this kid to the office, but if he doesn't
go, they are forbidden to physically remove the little *****. The
schools do need fixing, but just scapegoating the teachers and their
unions doesn't get that done. Nor will some silly test. Simple-minded,
sound-bite politics are a lousy way to go about doing anything with or
to your government.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
04 Mar 2004 06:56:32 PM |
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Nivlem wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
Academic accountability is a fad. It comes, it goes, nothing changes.
The kids don't give a damn about the tests, either, and often
deliberately tank them. Meaningful numbers are not generated when half
the class races through the test marking random answers, so as to go on
an extended lunch.
That's a nice excuse for a bunch of teachers who can't handle being
accountable for their work.
There's this interesting concept of tenure that seems to have made its
way down even to the elementary schools. About the only things you can
fire a teacher for once their probationary period has passed are murder,
child molesting or selling heroin to the students.
There are ways around that.
Therefore, any
accountability scheme is an illusion. It just makes for extra time
wasted shuffling papers, and extra class time wasted making kids take
tests they don't have any stake in passing. There is also the unfairness
of holding anyone accountable for the poor results at some schools.
Accountability is the only thing that will *force* those in power to
deal with the problems.
When
the kids are living in homeless shelters, war zone housing projects, or
crackhouses, and both parents are functionally illiterate drug addicts,
they simply aren't in any position to learn anything but how to duck and
cover during a drive-by.
That is more that a little bit exaggerated. In fact the worst schools in
the worst neighborhoods in Miami were the *first* to show major
improvement after they got failing "grades" from their evaluations. The
school boards were finally put under enough pressure to make necessary
improvements including physical plant and disciplinary security.
It has also become very difficult to kick
incredibly disruptive students out of school, thanks to the ADA, and
some irresponsible, lawsuit-happy parents. Try learning long division
while some ***** in the back is screaming abuse and throwing little
balls of paper made from leaves torn from his textbooks all over the
room. Sure, a teacher can send this kid to the office, but if he doesn't
go, they are forbidden to physically remove the little *****.
Many schools now have "security officers" who can and will remove such
children and physically restrain them if necessary. They don't have to
just put up with children with behavioral disorders like you describe.
The
schools do need fixing, but just scapegoating the teachers and their
unions doesn't get that done. Nor will some silly test.
The test is what focuses the attention on the problem school.
Simple-minded,
sound-bite politics are a lousy way to go about doing anything with or
to your government.
Pot, Kettle, Black.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 01:44:14 PM |
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104963q69hsadda@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104440v8rtindf3@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
Not quite, unless you were able to take tests over and over and over
again until even the "class rock" passed.
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
I suspect we're speaking of two different things. I was speaking of the
common test after the class finishes up on, for instance, the Civil War.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
02 Mar 2004 02:16:03 PM |
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stoney wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104963q69hsadda@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104440v8rtindf3@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
Not quite, unless you were able to take tests over and over and over
again until even the "class rock" passed.
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
I suspect we're speaking of two different things. I was speaking of the
common test after the class finishes up on, for instance, the Civil War.
That just means that they dumbed the material down so that the even the
"lump in a chair" could get it. Of course the real lumps didn't take
such things as Algebra or Chemistry. And even those were pretty dumbed
down - especially compared to the same subject in college.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
04 Mar 2004 01:22:55 PM |
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:16:03 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<1049r663nl0debe@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:25 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104963q69hsadda@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:24 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com>, Message ID:
<104440v8rtindf3@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000 (UTC), "Rob May"
<roblitespeed@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<ZUz%b.2836$ZQ7.2732@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5j3t30pu21uuptc2rg8d2st74eiih5dks1@4ax.com...
maybe they can get their kids outta the school under 'no child left
behind'. hee hee heh
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go ahead".
Rob
BINGO!!!
That's been the policy since I was in public school. No child will be
taught more material than the *slowest* one in the class can absorb.
Not quite, unless you were able to take tests over and over and over
again until even the "class rock" passed.
You'd be amazed at how well those proficiency tests focus the teachers'
attention. There's nothing quite like getting an "F" grade to make a
school administration concentrate on the basics.
I suspect we're speaking of two different things. I was speaking of the
common test after the class finishes up on, for instance, the Civil War.
That just means that they dumbed the material down so that the even the
"lump in a chair" could get it.
Nah. Even the 'lump' will pass after taking the same test three or four
times.
Of course the real lumps didn't take
such things as Algebra or Chemistry. And even those were pretty dumbed
down - especially compared to the same subject in college.
After my USN time I started college and had to retake Algebra (for no
credit) as I had forgotten a lot in the years. I also had to take
Physics (for no credit) as I hadn't had it before. After that, all my
courses counted for graduation.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: In the News: What would Jesus teach? |
26 Feb 2004 11:09:44 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:38:26 +0000, Rob May wrote:
I think "no child left behind" really means "no child allowed to go
ahead".
"No Child Left Behind" means half-***** education.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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