| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Clover" |
| Date: |
04 Mar 2007 03:24:31 PM |
| Object: |
In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature? I'm thinking along the lines of something that would affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level. I know we might be
capable of creating metallic liquids of a silver _base_, but I'm talking about
pure silver, no additives - what atomic or subatomic property could be changed -
without increasing the temperature, at least beyond a few degreess - that would
make it act like a liquid? Chances are good in my thinking that the resulting
liquid wouldn't actually be "silver" any more, but some kind of semi-silver
"pseudomatter" of some sort. But that's just a guess based on my historically
uneducated notions of physics at this time.
BTW, I've found sci.physics.foundations, and am enjoying it immensely - thought
I'd let y'all know for anyone else who is interested. Seems to be a decent way
for neophytes like myself to learn a thing or two. :-)
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 09:38:27 PM |
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"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at
room
temperature?
The nearest you'd get to that would be a 'fluidised bed'.
Grind up the metal into a very fine powder.
Put it into a container with a sintered bottom and pass a stream of air
through it.
(something like the bit of equipment used to aerate the water in tropical
fish tanks)
Although not a liquid, it will behave very much like a liquid.
It will flow and find it's own level. Denser objects will sink to the
bottom.
Less dense objects will float on the surface.
HTH
Smiler,
The godless one
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 04:21:50 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 03:38:27 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at
room
temperature?
The nearest you'd get to that would be a 'fluidised bed'.
Grind up the metal into a very fine powder.
Put it into a container with a sintered bottom and pass a stream of air
through it.
(something like the bit of equipment used to aerate the water in tropical
fish tanks)
Although not a liquid, it will behave very much like a liquid.
It will flow and find it's own level. Denser objects will sink to the
bottom.
Less dense objects will float on the surface.
HTH
Actually, that's very good! I see nothing of that process which would fall
outside my intended purpose, though a purely mechanical solution isn't even
close to how I thought it could be accomplished.
I'd imagine also that certain applications of electromagnetism could have a
similar effect - not by acting on the atomic level as I'd been thinking, but by
simply rattling things around consistently enough for them to move about like
liquids.
So if one could grind silve to a powder whose particles were only 1 or 2 atoms
at most, that would be as close as you could come to my desired end result. In
fact, I think it would even "evaporate" as the tiny particles of silver drifted
away from the surface. MUCH appreciated! :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every birth carries within
it the seed of its own
demise
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Narrow minds
breed thick skulls.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darkness is just light
that's traveling...
in a different direction...
than where you're looking.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blog: "Family - The Binds That Tie"
http://bindsthattie.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 06:33:50 PM |
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"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:ip5pu2htrg3ue0kdm6ldi27bh41rr765bl@4ax.com...
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 03:38:27 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at
room
temperature?
The nearest you'd get to that would be a 'fluidised bed'.
Grind up the metal into a very fine powder.
Put it into a container with a sintered bottom and pass a stream of air
through it.
(something like the bit of equipment used to aerate the water in tropical
fish tanks)
Although not a liquid, it will behave very much like a liquid.
It will flow and find it's own level. Denser objects will sink to the
bottom.
Less dense objects will float on the surface.
HTH
Actually, that's very good! I see nothing of that process which would
fall
outside my intended purpose, though a purely mechanical solution isn't
even
close to how I thought it could be accomplished.
I'd imagine also that certain applications of electromagnetism could have
a
similar effect - not by acting on the atomic level as I'd been thinking,
but by
simply rattling things around consistently enough for them to move about
like
liquids.
I believe (but I'm not certain) that ultrasound can have the same effect on
a powder.
So if one could grind silve to a powder whose particles were only 1 or 2
atoms
at most, that would be as close as you could come to my desired end
result. In
fact, I think it would even "evaporate" as the tiny particles of silver
drifted
away from the surface. MUCH appreciated! :-)
--
Particles of one or two atoms at most wouldn't remain silver for very long,
if they were exposed to air.
The surface of silver tarnishes (oxidises) fairly rapidly, but the surface
layer of oxide protects the underlying metal from further oxidation.
That's why you can polish (= rub the oxides off of) a piece of silver and
bring back its shine.
Particles of one or two atoms would be _all_ surface, with no underlying
metal, and so would rapidly become oxidised all the way through.
You'd soon end up with only silver oxides and no metalic silver.
Anyway, it would be one hell of a job to polish particles that small :-)
If your particles were that small they probably wouldn't settle, due to
Brownian Motion.
I think you'd end up with a silver/silver oxide 'cloud'.
They do say, though, that every cloud has a silver lining!
Your probably better off considering gold or even platinum as these don't
oxidise anywhere near as quickly as silver.
I don't know the density of platinum, but gold is a lot denser than silver
and will settle quicker.
That's, of course, if your bank balance is healthy enough.
Smiler,
The godless one
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 03:50:00 PM |
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In article <5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover said...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature? I'm thinking along the lines of something that would affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level.
Changing the number of neutrons in the nucleus would yield
one of the isotopes of silver -- all of which are solid at
room temperature. Changing the number of protons would
produce something other than silver. (It wouldn't be "semi-
silver"; it would be completely different element.)
Now, if you could change the laws of physics... ;-)
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Tockk" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 07:12:12 PM |
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"Brian E. Clark" <reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote in message
news:MPG.20565a972741fe1298a34b@newsgroups.comcast.net...
In article <5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover said...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at
room
temperature?
Well, if you put water in a vacuum at room temperture, it will boil and then
become solid. If you reverse the process, it will become liquid again.
So, I'm thinking pressure might do the trick.
Take a lump of something solid, apply enough pressure to it, at room
temperture, and I'd suppose that eventually it would liquify. In theory,
anyway; dunno if there'd be a practical way to do this in real life . . .
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| User: "Kadaitcha Mans Mother" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 04:14:46 PM |
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By limiting the universal external strong and weak forces on the silver on
earth perhaps the silver will be free to expand and may be there could be a
change of state from solid to liquid!
"Brian E. Clark" <reply@newsgroup.only.please> wrote in message
news:MPG.20565a972741fe1298a34b@newsgroups.comcast.net...
In article <5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com>,
Uncle Clover said...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at
room
temperature? I'm thinking along the lines of something that would
affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level.
Changing the number of neutrons in the nucleus would yield
one of the isotopes of silver -- all of which are solid at
room temperature. Changing the number of protons would
produce something other than silver. (It wouldn't be "semi-
silver"; it would be completely different element.)
Now, if you could change the laws of physics... ;-)
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 04:23:13 PM |
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In article <5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com>,
UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com says...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
Unlikely. Pumping energy into a material must inevitably raise
it's temperature.
I'm thinking along the lines of something that would affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level.
You are operating at the wrong level. Interatomic forces determine
the phase of a material, ie: whether it is solid, liquid, etc.
I know we might be
capable of creating metallic liquids of a silver _base_, but I'm talking about
pure silver, no additives - what atomic or subatomic property could be changed -
without increasing the temperature, at least beyond a few degreess - that would
make it act like a liquid?
Interatomic forces are electromagnetic, so any change would have
to reduce these forces.
http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/sstutorial/Text10/Tx102/tx102.html
Regards,
Josef
If you refuse to accept anything but the best you very often get
it.
-- William Somerset Maugham
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 04:35:53 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 17:23:13 -0500, Josef Balluch <josef.balluch@sympatico.can>
wrote:
In article <5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com>,
UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com says...
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
Unlikely. Pumping energy into a material must inevitably raise
it's temperature.
I'm thinking along the lines of something that would affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level.
You are operating at the wrong level. Interatomic forces determine
the phase of a material, ie: whether it is solid, liquid, etc.
I know we might be
capable of creating metallic liquids of a silver _base_, but I'm talking about
pure silver, no additives - what atomic or subatomic property could be changed -
without increasing the temperature, at least beyond a few degreess - that would
make it act like a liquid?
Interatomic forces are electromagnetic, so any change would have
to reduce these forces.
http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/sstutorial/Text10/Tx102/tx102.html
A useful reference? Thanks! :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every birth carries within
it the seed of its own
demise
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Narrow minds
breed thick skulls.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darkness is just light
that's traveling...
in a different direction...
than where you're looking.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blog: "Family - The Binds That Tie"
http://bindsthattie.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 05:05:10 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
That's a function of the metal, not the mechanism.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 05:35:55 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:05:10 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
That's a function of the metal, not the mechanism.
I'm sorry, I don't get your meaning. :-?
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every birth carries within
it the seed of its own
demise
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Narrow minds
breed thick skulls.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darkness is just light
that's traveling...
in a different direction...
than where you're looking.
__________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blog: "Family - The Binds That Tie"
http://bindsthattie.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 05:36:06 AM |
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On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:35:55 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:05:10 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
That's a function of the metal, not the mechanism.
I'm sorry, I don't get your meaning. :-?
I meant the properties of the "silver" are constant for change of state. The
mechanism of energy application doesn't matter. The "silver" will follow it's
natural change of state.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Gospel Bretts" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 06:11:11 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:36:06 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:35:55 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:05:10 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0500, Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com>
wrote:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature?
That's a function of the metal, not the mechanism.
I'm sorry, I don't get your meaning. :-?
I meant the properties of the "silver" are constant for change of state. The
mechanism of energy application doesn't matter. The "silver" will follow it's
natural change of state.
You forgot to mention too that silver is the metal associated with the
moon. This knowledge is a key to our quest for an incantation that
will turn it into gold.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 09:01:04 AM |
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Gospel Bretts <bretts1967@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
You forgot to mention too that silver is the metal associated with the
moon. This knowledge is a key to our quest for an incantation that
will turn it into gold.
Not to mention that the symbol for the metal Mercury is also the
symbol for the planet Mercury, and it's also called quicksilver.
I'm sure with the proper Latin incantations mumbled over a blob of
Mercury, it could be turned into actual silver. You just need the
right words or enough faith...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 04:51:20 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:01:04 GMT, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Gospel Bretts <bretts1967@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
You forgot to mention too that silver is the metal associated with the
moon. This knowledge is a key to our quest for an incantation that
will turn it into gold.
Not to mention that the symbol for the metal Mercury is also the
symbol for the planet Mercury, and it's also called quicksilver.
I'm sure with the proper Latin incantations mumbled over a blob of
Mercury, it could be turned into actual silver. You just need the
right words or enough faith...
Only God could make that change.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
05 Mar 2007 04:50:25 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:11:11 GMT, Gospel Bretts <bretts1967@hotmail.com> wrote:
I meant the properties of the "silver" are constant for change of state. The
mechanism of energy application doesn't matter. The "silver" will follow it's
natural change of state.
You forgot to mention too that silver is the metal associated with the
moon. This knowledge is a key to our quest for an incantation that
will turn it into gold.
Yeah, sure, bretts.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 09:35:53 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0500, in alt.atheism , Uncle Clover
<UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> in
<5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com> wrote:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be applied
to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a liquid at room
temperature? I'm thinking along the lines of something that would affect a
change at the subatomic level, maybe even the quantum level.
Which would pretty much make it something other than silver.
I know we might be
capable of creating metallic liquids of a silver _base_, but I'm talking about
pure silver, no additives - what atomic or subatomic property could be changed -
without increasing the temperature, at least beyond a few degreess - that would
make it act like a liquid? Chances are good in my thinking that the resulting
liquid wouldn't actually be "silver" any more, but some kind of semi-silver
"pseudomatter" of some sort. But that's just a guess based on my historically
uneducated notions of physics at this time.
It would not be "semi-silver", it would be something else.
BTW, I've found sci.physics.foundations, and am enjoying it immensely - thought
I'd let y'all know for anyone else who is interested. Seems to be a decent way
for neophytes like myself to learn a thing or two. :-)
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
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| Title: Re: In theory - liquifying a pure metal without heating it |
04 Mar 2007 05:34:43 PM |
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Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in
news:5udmu2l0u0hdoero04ud59u57hkm88a7op@4ax.com:
Is there any kind of electromagnetic energy or radiation that could be
applied to a metal such as, sayyy, silver, that would make it into a
liquid at room temperature?
Adding energy would tend to increase the temperature.
I'm thinking along the lines of something
that would affect a change at the subatomic level, maybe even the
quantum level.
All effects at subatomic or atomic level are quantum so "maybe even" is
misguided. What you are trying to do is alter the chemistry of silver. This
is entirely governed by the electromagnetic force which is what causes
silver atoms to bind together as a solid metal. Adding electromagnetic
radiation can of course disrupt such binding but will equate to a change in
temperature.
I know we might be capable of creating metallic liquids
of a silver _base_, but I'm talking about pure silver, no additives -
what atomic or subatomic property could be changed - without increasing
the temperature, at least beyond a few degreess - that would make it act
like a liquid?
Not by any known principle.
Chances are good in my thinking that the resulting
liquid wouldn't actually be "silver" any more, but some kind of
semi-silver "pseudomatter" of some sort. But that's just a guess based
on my historically uneducated notions of physics at this time.
Some elements can show different physical properties based on the way that
they are bound. The commonest example is Carbon which can form a solid by
different methods of binding. For example graphite, where the carbon is
bound in a two dimensional hexagonal arrangement of sheets which are weakly
bound together versus a 3D octahedral arrangement known as diamond.
Similarly you have yellow and red phosphorus which have quite different
properties. These alternate arrangements appear to be be restricted to non
metals which are able to form so called co-valent bonds versus metals which
don't do this.
Klazmon.
BTW, I've found sci.physics.foundations, and am enjoying it immensely -
thought I'd let y'all know for anyone else who is interested. Seems to
be a decent way for neophytes like myself to learn a thing or two. :-)
.
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