| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
03 Jul 2005 09:39:44 PM |
| Object: |
Independence Day 2005 |
As Americans celebrate the birth of our nation this 4th of July
weekend, we should take time to ponder the principles that were the
cornerstone of our forefathers vision. "Life,liberty,and the pursuit of
happiness" has become a way of life for most of us. America has grown
strong because of the freedoms and rights that each individual enjoys.
There is, however, one segment of people who have been denied these
basic freedoms; the pre-born.The greatest nation in the world, with all
it's resources and abilities, still supports and sanctions the killing
of it's pre-born children. This barbarity is what should separate us
from 3rd world nations. How we treat our most vunerable beings is how
history will remember us.
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:14:55 PM |
|
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DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahg4r$mc5$2@services.kq.no...
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahbi6$qr9$1@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally
believe in
the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't
know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
No more or less fictional that Jesus.
Your basis for that claim is what, exactly?
Lack of first hand evidence of the existence of any of them. There
is as
much empirical evidence of the existence of Zeus than the existence of
Jesus.
Your culture must be as your writing sounds then. Barren.
Just because we disbelieve that which there is no evidence towards
does not mean we do not have culture. I, for one, love fiction and
fantasy books. Lord of the Rings is one of the best! :-D
Then your culture is fictional?
Depends. How do you define "culture"? Me, personally, I define culture
as that which I've been exposed to as well as that which I've learned.
To me, "culture" evolved along with human evolution to what we know
today. In 200 years, our "culture" will be vastly different than our
culture today. What it'll be, I cannot predict.
However, my culture comes from fact, fiction, entertainment, and education.
It doesn't sound like a rich culture. For one thing, you reject parts of
it, like the myth of Jesus, but you include Lord of the Rings. You're
saying the myth of Jesus doesn't influence you, but Lord of the Rings
does. That's an astonishing culture to me.
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 09:19:14 PM |
|
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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:14:55 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahg4r$mc5$2@services.kq.no...
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahbi6$qr9$1@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally
believe in
the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't
know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
No more or less fictional that Jesus.
Your basis for that claim is what, exactly?
Lack of first hand evidence of the existence of any of them. There
is as
much empirical evidence of the existence of Zeus than the existence of
Jesus.
Your culture must be as your writing sounds then. Barren.
Just because we disbelieve that which there is no evidence towards
does not mean we do not have culture. I, for one, love fiction and
fantasy books. Lord of the Rings is one of the best! :-D
Then your culture is fictional?
Depends. How do you define "culture"? Me, personally, I define culture
as that which I've been exposed to as well as that which I've learned.
To me, "culture" evolved along with human evolution to what we know
today. In 200 years, our "culture" will be vastly different than our
culture today. What it'll be, I cannot predict.
However, my culture comes from fact, fiction, entertainment, and education.
It doesn't sound like a rich culture.
It appears well-rounded to me.
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 11:34:54 PM |
|
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Somewriter wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:14:55 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahg4r$mc5$2@services.kq.no...
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahbi6$qr9$1@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally
believe in
the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't
know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
No more or less fictional that Jesus.
Your basis for that claim is what, exactly?
Lack of first hand evidence of the existence of any of them. There
is as
much empirical evidence of the existence of Zeus than the existence of
Jesus.
Your culture must be as your writing sounds then. Barren.
Just because we disbelieve that which there is no evidence towards
does not mean we do not have culture. I, for one, love fiction and
fantasy books. Lord of the Rings is one of the best! :-D
Then your culture is fictional?
Depends. How do you define "culture"? Me, personally, I define culture
as that which I've been exposed to as well as that which I've learned.
To me, "culture" evolved along with human evolution to what we know
today. In 200 years, our "culture" will be vastly different than our
culture today. What it'll be, I cannot predict.
However, my culture comes from fact, fiction, entertainment, and education.
It doesn't sound like a rich culture.
It appears well-rounded to me.
On a scale of 0 importance to 100 importance, where would you place the
myth of Froddo Baggins in your own culture? The myth of Jesus?
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:58:56 PM |
|
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahg4r$mc5$2@services.kq.no...
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahbi6$qr9$1@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally
believe in
the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't
know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional
tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
No more or less fictional that Jesus.
Your basis for that claim is what, exactly?
Lack of first hand evidence of the existence of any of them. There
is as
much empirical evidence of the existence of Zeus than the
existence of
Jesus.
Your culture must be as your writing sounds then. Barren.
Just because we disbelieve that which there is no evidence towards
does not mean we do not have culture. I, for one, love fiction and
fantasy books. Lord of the Rings is one of the best! :-D
Then your culture is fictional?
Depends. How do you define "culture"? Me, personally, I define
culture as that which I've been exposed to as well as that which I've
learned.
To me, "culture" evolved along with human evolution to what we know
today. In 200 years, our "culture" will be vastly different than our
culture today. What it'll be, I cannot predict.
However, my culture comes from fact, fiction, entertainment, and
education.
It doesn't sound like a rich culture.
Your opinion of my culture is irrelevant.
For one thing, you reject parts of
it, like the myth of Jesus, but you include Lord of the Rings.
Um, the myth of Jesus has the same amount of impact on me as the myth of
Frodo Baggins.
You're
saying the myth of Jesus doesn't influence you, but Lord of the Rings
does. That's an astonishing culture to me.
Since when did I say that it didn't influence me? Please cite where I
said that. Thanks.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 11:33:04 PM |
|
|
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahg4r$mc5$2@services.kq.no...
Mickey wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dahbi6$qr9$1@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally
believe in
the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books,
too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I
don't know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional
tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
No more or less fictional that Jesus.
Your basis for that claim is what, exactly?
Lack of first hand evidence of the existence of any of them.
There is as
much empirical evidence of the existence of Zeus than the
existence of
Jesus.
Your culture must be as your writing sounds then. Barren.
Just because we disbelieve that which there is no evidence towards
does not mean we do not have culture. I, for one, love fiction and
fantasy books. Lord of the Rings is one of the best! :-D
Then your culture is fictional?
Depends. How do you define "culture"? Me, personally, I define
culture as that which I've been exposed to as well as that which I've
learned.
To me, "culture" evolved along with human evolution to what we know
today. In 200 years, our "culture" will be vastly different than our
culture today. What it'll be, I cannot predict.
However, my culture comes from fact, fiction, entertainment, and
education.
It doesn't sound like a rich culture.
Your opinion of my culture is irrelevant.
For one thing, you reject parts of it, like the myth of Jesus, but you
include Lord of the Rings.
Um, the myth of Jesus has the same amount of impact on me as the myth of
Frodo Baggins.
That was my point. Your culture is rather barren, unless you are
implying the myth of Frodo Baggins has had a big effect on you.
You're saying the myth of Jesus doesn't influence you, but Lord of the
Rings does. That's an astonishing culture to me.
Since when did I say that it didn't influence me? Please cite where I
said that. Thanks.
You recognized the myth of Jesus as a part of your culture. On a scale
of 0 importance to 100 importance, where would you place each of these
two myths?
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 09:14:51 PM |
|
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On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it? It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 11:37:41 PM |
|
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Somewriter wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it? It
could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
I'm a buddhist, actually. Do buddhiss issue decrees?
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
07 Jul 2005 08:30:40 AM |
|
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"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daibio$8ff$3@services.kq.no...
Somewriter wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a long
time before the new testament was written. Oral history is worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know who
Herakles was,
You probably know him as Hercules.
and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales?
This is my point. They were as believed as Xianity is, when they were
written.
I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
I'm a buddhist, actually. Do buddhiss issue decrees?
Then you admit you have no standing to make your decrees.
Susan
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
07 Jul 2005 10:30:11 AM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daibio$8ff$3@services.kq.no...
Somewriter wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a long
time before the new testament was written. Oral history is worthless to
you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in the
existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know who
Herakles was,
You probably know him as Hercules.
and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales?
This is my point. They were as believed as Xianity is, when they were
written.
I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
I'm a buddhist, actually. Do buddhiss issue decrees?
Then you admit you have no standing to make your decrees.
I haven't issued any decrees. Here is one: Consider growing up.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
07 Jul 2005 10:48:24 AM |
|
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"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dajhq7$cvc$8@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daibio$8ff$3@services.kq.no...
Somewriter wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it? It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in
the existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know
who Herakles was,
You probably know him as Hercules.
and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales?
This is my point. They were as believed as Xianity is, when they were
written.
I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
I'm a buddhist, actually. Do buddhiss issue decrees?
Then you admit you have no standing to make your decrees.
I haven't issued any decrees. Here is one: Consider growing up.
Coming from you, that's pretty funny.
Just because you may have worded it not exactrly like a decree, you have
insisted that not only did Jesus exist, but that everything written about
him has been true. You are behaving extremely childishly, and,for the
record, Dodge Noted.
Susan
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
07 Jul 2005 02:22:54 PM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:dajhq7$cvc$8@services.kq.no...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daibio$8ff$3@services.kq.no...
Somewriter wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:31:16 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it? It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in
the existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know
who Herakles was,
You probably know him as Hercules.
and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales?
This is my point. They were as believed as Xianity is, when they were
written.
I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Your religious decree is fiction, too.
I'm a buddhist, actually. Do buddhiss issue decrees?
Then you admit you have no standing to make your decrees.
I haven't issued any decrees. Here is one: Consider growing up.
Coming from you, that's pretty funny.
Thank you.
Just because you may have worded it not exactrly like a decree, you have
insisted that not only did Jesus exist, but that everything written about
him has been true.
I didn't say anything of the kind, actually.
You are behaving extremely childishly, and,for the
record, Dodge Noted.
Who is Dodge? Nevermind. I'm sure this is a waste of time for both of us.
Susan
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 03:08:06 PM |
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it? It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in
the existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know who
Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales? I
don't know, since I haven't read them.
Herakles, transliterated to Heracles, transliterated to Hercules. I
think Disney made a cartoon about him...
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 03:51:18 PM |
|
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DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Wolf J. Flywheel" <detective@pi.com> wrote in message
news:daha39$i07$1@services.kq.no...
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it? It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a
long time before the new testament was written. Oral history is
worthless to you?
If you value oral history so much, why do you not equally believe in
the existence of Herakles, Gilgamesh & Beowulf? They have books, too.
For one thing, I haven't read those books. For another, I don't know
who Herakles was, and finally, weren't the other two fictional tales?
I don't know, since I haven't read them.
Herakles, transliterated to Heracles, transliterated to Hercules. I
think Disney made a cartoon about him...
I see. I had never seen that spelling. Well, I suppose there was a man
who was the person on whom the myth of Hercules is based.
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 09:14:04 PM |
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On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:06:15 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and Confuscius,
but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do not consider a
credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
It could all have been faked. Christianity existed for quite a long time
before the new testament was written. Oral history is worthless to you?
Religion is organised and man-made to serve a certain group of people
who desire and command the obedience of all. If it wasn't for the
possibility that religion keeps some people from doing the harm, I'd
say it's a total waste of time.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 03:04:44 PM |
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and Confuscius,
but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do not consider a
credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus was
alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has many
incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning bushes that
talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth being flooded
without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world into existence, and
so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of evidence to
the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time
before the new testament was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
Such as, the one that begins (translated to English):
"Whereas, Most Christian, High, Excellent, and Powerful Princes, King
and Queen of Spain and of the Islands of the Sea, our Sovereigns, this
present year 1492, after your Highnesses had terminated the war with the
Moors reigning in Europe, the same having been brought to an end in the
great city of Granada, where on the second day of January, this present
year, I saw the royal banners of your Highnesses planted by force of
arms upon the towers of the Alhambra, which is the fortress of that
city, and saw the Moorish king come out at the gate of the city and kiss
the hands of your Highnesses, and of the Prince my Sovereign; and in the
present month, in consequence of the information which I had given your
Highnesses respecting the countries of India and of a Prince, called
Great Can, which in our language signifies King of Kings, how, at many
times he, and his predecessors had sent to Rome soliciting instructors
who might teach him our holy faith, and the holy Father had never
granted his request, whereby great numbers of people were lost,
believing in idolatry and doctrines of perdition."
But what Duke regards as Jesus is non-existent; for somebody who
allegedly "spread the love," Duke's misrepresentations (and those of
other extremist theists) have rendered religion an excuse to destroy
people.
That doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be imaginary.
And it doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be real.
I didn't. He has been declared in this thread to be imaginary.
Due to the amount of evidence that says he existed. That is, zero
contemporary evidence.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 03:55:34 PM |
|
|
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do
not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus was
alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has many
incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning bushes that
talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth being flooded
without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world into existence, and
so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of evidence to
the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new testament
was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of trust
in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be. We trust the oral history of
their authenticity.
Such as, the one that begins (translated to English):
"Whereas, Most Christian, High, Excellent, and Powerful Princes, King
and Queen of Spain and of the Islands of the Sea, our Sovereigns, this
present year 1492, after your Highnesses had terminated the war with the
Moors reigning in Europe, the same having been brought to an end in the
great city of Granada, where on the second day of January, this present
year, I saw the royal banners of your Highnesses planted by force of
arms upon the towers of the Alhambra, which is the fortress of that
city, and saw the Moorish king come out at the gate of the city and kiss
the hands of your Highnesses, and of the Prince my Sovereign; and in the
present month, in consequence of the information which I had given your
Highnesses respecting the countries of India and of a Prince, called
Great Can, which in our language signifies King of Kings, how, at many
times he, and his predecessors had sent to Rome soliciting instructors
who might teach him our holy faith, and the holy Father had never
granted his request, whereby great numbers of people were lost,
believing in idolatry and doctrines of perdition."
But what Duke regards as Jesus is non-existent; for somebody who
allegedly "spread the love," Duke's misrepresentations (and those of
other extremist theists) have rendered religion an excuse to destroy
people.
That doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be imaginary.
And it doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be real.
I didn't. He has been declared in this thread to be imaginary.
Due to the amount of evidence that says he existed. That is, zero
contemporary evidence.
That's an astonishing claim to me.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 04:10:22 PM |
|
|
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do
not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus was
alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has many
incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning bushes that
talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth being flooded
without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world into existence, and
so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of evidence
to the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new testament
was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of trust
in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
We trust the oral history of
their authenticity.
"We"?
Such as, the one that begins (translated to English):
"Whereas, Most Christian, High, Excellent, and Powerful Princes, King
and Queen of Spain and of the Islands of the Sea, our Sovereigns, this
present year 1492, after your Highnesses had terminated the war with
the Moors reigning in Europe, the same having been brought to an end
in the great city of Granada, where on the second day of January, this
present year, I saw the royal banners of your Highnesses planted by
force of arms upon the towers of the Alhambra, which is the fortress
of that city, and saw the Moorish king come out at the gate of the
city and kiss the hands of your Highnesses, and of the Prince my
Sovereign; and in the present month, in consequence of the information
which I had given your Highnesses respecting the countries of India
and of a Prince, called Great Can, which in our language signifies
King of Kings, how, at many times he, and his predecessors had sent to
Rome soliciting instructors who might teach him our holy faith, and
the holy Father had never granted his request, whereby great numbers
of people were lost, believing in idolatry and doctrines of perdition."
But what Duke regards as Jesus is non-existent; for somebody who
allegedly "spread the love," Duke's misrepresentations (and those of
other extremist theists) have rendered religion an excuse to destroy
people.
That doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be imaginary.
And it doesn't mean you should declare Jesus to be real.
I didn't. He has been declared in this thread to be imaginary.
Due to the amount of evidence that says he existed. That is, zero
contemporary evidence.
That's an astonishing claim to me.
Yes, I know. Now, get to proving that there is contemporary evidence.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:00:14 PM |
|
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DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do
not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus
was alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has many
incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning bushes that
talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth being flooded
without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world into existence,
and so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of evidence
to the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new testament
was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named Jesus
around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:04:41 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:00:14 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named Jesus
around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
Nobody is "claiming" anything. You need to learn the difference
between having zero reason to believe something, and believing the
opposite.
There is no evidence whatsoever for a historical Jesus. You need to
realise that nobody would give a ***** about it if Christians kept it
to themselves instead of rubbing their fantasies in our faces.
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:18:03 PM |
|
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:00:14 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named Jesus
around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
Nobody is "claiming" anything. You need to learn the difference
between having zero reason to believe something, and believing the
opposite.
I've known that difference for at least forty years, and the claim was
made that Jesus was just imaginary.
There is no evidence whatsoever for a historical Jesus. You need to
realise that nobody would give a ***** about it if Christians kept it
to themselves instead of rubbing their fantasies in our faces.
There is evidence for the historical Jesus, and I've explained it
several times. And you can stop telling me what I need to do. You ought
to learn you don't know what other people need. It sounds to me like you
don't even know what you need.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 07:24:41 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:18:03 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:00:14 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named Jesus
around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
Nobody is "claiming" anything. You need to learn the difference
between having zero reason to believe something, and believing the
opposite.
I've known that difference for at least forty years, and the claim was
made that Jesus was just imaginary.
There is no evidence whatsoever for a historical Jesus. You need to
realise that nobody would give a ***** about it if Christians kept it
to themselves instead of rubbing their fantasies in our faces.
There is evidence for the historical Jesus, and I've explained it
several times. And you can stop telling me what I need to do. You ought
to learn you don't know what other people need. It sounds to me like you
don't even know what you need.
There isn't any, and you haven't explained it. You have rationalised
your belief that there was, which isn't the same thing.
Provide this alleged evidence. You'll be the first.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 06:01:08 PM |
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:00:14 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative
body certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are
the writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim
by way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named
Jesus around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
Nobody is "claiming" anything. You need to learn the difference
between having zero reason to believe something, and believing the
opposite.
I've known that difference for at least forty years, and the claim was
made that Jesus was just imaginary.
....based on zero empirical or contemporary evidence.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:03:21 PM |
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I do
not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus
was alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has
many incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning bushes
that talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth being
flooded without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world into
existence, and so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of evidence
to the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new
testament was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named Jesus
around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
If there was (and there's no evidence that the man existed at all), then
he'd probably be vastly different than what the myth said he was. Was
there a prophet who created the Christianity we know today? Yes. Was
his name "Jesus"? Probably not.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Wolf J. Flywheel" |
|
| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:08:59 PM |
|
|
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I
do not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus
was alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has
many incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning
bushes that talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth
being flooded without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world
into existence, and so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of
evidence to the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new
testament was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named
Jesus around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
If there was (and there's no evidence that the man existed at all), then
he'd probably be vastly different than what the myth said he was. Was
there a prophet who created the Christianity we know today? Yes. Was
his name "Jesus"? Probably not.
But no one claims Jesus created Christianity. Christianity came *after*
the life of Jesus, so your point here is wrong. I joined the discussion
to dispute the claim that Jesus is imaginary. There was probably a man
named Jesus who got up the noses of the Jewish elders and whose radical
ideas threatened the authority of the Roman governor because of that.
Otherwise the story would not have survived.
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 09:23:17 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:08:59 +0200, "Wolf J. Flywheel"
<detective@pi.com> wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I
do not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value doesn't
it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus
was alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has
many incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning
bushes that talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth
being flooded without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the world
into existence, and so forth.
It could all have been faked.
Yes, it very well could've been. However, the multitude of
evidence to the contrary says that it wasn't.
Christianity existed for quite a long time before the new
testament was written.
And?
Oral history is worthless to you?
No, I just find it very untrustwothy.
But which evidence, specifically, convinced you Columbus existed?
His writings, such as his journal.
But why do you believe those are his writings? You place a lot of
trust in that chain of evidence, but there was no authoritative body
certifying the truth of these writings. People say these are the
writings of Columbus, but they need not be.
You're approaching solipsism, Wolf.
Someone made the claim Jesus is imaginary. I'm disputing that claim by
way of saying it makes more sense to believe there was a man named
Jesus around whose life the myth of Jesus was built.
If there was (and there's no evidence that the man existed at all), then
he'd probably be vastly different than what the myth said he was. Was
there a prophet who created the Christianity we know today? Yes. Was
his name "Jesus"? Probably not.
But no one claims Jesus created Christianity. Christianity came *after*
the life of Jesus, so your point here is wrong. I joined the discussion
to dispute the claim that Jesus is imaginary.
Then by all means, sir, present your credible, indisputable evidence
of your Jesus' existence, since you're unwaveringly sure of it.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Independence Day 2005 |
06 Jul 2005 05:35:54 PM |
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Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Wolf J. Flywheel wrote:
DanielSan wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:34:43 +0200, Rufus T. Firefly
<President@Freedonia.gov> wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:28 -0700, "Clave"
<ClaviusNoSpamDammit@CableSpeed.com> wrote:
"Somewriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:ftskc15oshpp34jn2ca11isadi9s8ddub4@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:27:40 -0500, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:25:18 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wake up and join us.
Never. I'd rather die.
It's your funeral.
And I'll be in Christ's arm before you...
Jesus mainlines the faithful.
Jesus is a figament of Duke's horny imagintion.
Don't you think the man Jesus actually existed?
I don't know; I wasn't there. Jesus could have been anybody.
You probably weren't there in the 40's either, but you do believe
there was a Hitler.
There is evidence of Hitler. There is no evidence of the man
Jesus.
You probably even believe there was a George
Washington. Maybe even a Columbus and a Confusius. But no Jesus?
Well, since there is evidence of Washington, Columbus, and
Confuscius, but there is no evidence, beyond the Bible, which I
do not consider a credible source.
Why do you value that evidence more? It has the same value
doesn't it?
No. Evidence from Columbus, for example, comes from when Columbus
was alive and all evidence is credible. The Bible, however, has
many incredible stuff, including, but not limited to, burning
bushes that talk, talking snakes, men walking on water, the earth
being flooded without leaving evidence, God "speaking" the | | | | | | | |
