| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
04 Oct 2006 11:01:36 PM |
| Object: |
Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a significant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage. All of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genocidal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_15_5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturday's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use their own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of Public
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a member
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the parade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
04 Oct 2006 11:21:46 PM |
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J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a significa=
nt
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage. All=
of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genocidal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_15_50=
38731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturday's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use their =
own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of Public
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a member
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the parade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
I always wondered why the attempted genocide against Natives was never
recorded in History as a "Holocaust". It started with Columbus'
arrival and continued into the the 20th century.
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
.
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| User: "Macabee" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 05:32:08 AM |
|
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wrote:
J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a signifi=
cant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage. A=
ll of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genocid=
al
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_15_=
5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturday's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use thei=
r own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of Pub=
lic
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a mem=
ber
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers. =
"We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the parade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
I always wondered why the attempted genocide against Natives was never
recorded in History as a "Holocaust". It started with Columbus'
arrival and continued into the the 20th century.
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
Hoocaust means fire, as the Jews went up in smoke.
As somone who actually lived in Indian Country and knows something
about it.
AIM has many great goals and done a lot of good. At Wounded Knee in
the
70s, they occupied a trading post there, because they did not think the
owners were giving the people who came to sell crafts enough. A rare
business on the Reservation with over 90% unemployment.
The action, which included murdering FBI agents, led to one of the
worst decades in Pine Ridge. It polarized the population that for many
years Falls River County in Homocides, Lakota versus Lakota, Goons
versus Aims.
No one won. Nothing good was accomplished.
Off shoots from the movement have done much good, like bringing
traditional culture, language and religion inot the schools.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 09:00:36 AM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 03:32:08 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Macabee"
<Bob4Health@hotmail.com> in
<1160130727.976890.81880@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
[snip]
AIM has many great goals and done a lot of good. At Wounded Knee in
the
70s, they occupied a trading post there, because they did not think the
owners were giving the people who came to sell crafts enough. A rare
business on the Reservation with over 90% unemployment.
The action, which included murdering FBI agents, led to one of the
worst decades in Pine Ridge. It polarized the population that for many
years Falls River County in Homocides, Lakota versus Lakota, Goons
versus Aims.
It is not at all clear who murdered whom. But it is pretty clear that
Leonard didn't.
No one won. Nothing good was accomplished.
Off shoots from the movement have done much good, like bringing
traditional culture, language and religion inot the schools.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 08:52:20 AM |
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On 5-Oct-2006, "janospetrik@hotmail.com" <janospetrik@hotmail.com> wrote:
I always wondered why the attempted genocide against Natives was never
recorded in History as a "Holocaust". It started with Columbus'
arrival and continued into the the 20th century.
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
It qualifies as whatever those who suffered it want it to be called.
Stop trying to pretend that you actually care about anything other
tnan Jew-hating.
Susan
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 12:28:04 PM |
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In article <o68Vg.16193$3T2.4564@trnddc06> writes:
On 5-Oct-2006, "janospetrik@hotmail.com" <janospetrik@hotmail.com> wrote:
I always wondered why the attempted genocide against Natives was never
recorded in History as a "Holocaust". It started with Columbus'
arrival and continued into the the 20th century.
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
It qualifies as whatever those who suffered it want it to be called.
Stop trying to pretend that you actually care about anything other
tnan Jew-hating.
Susan
Heh. On the centennial of T.S. Eliot's birth, some British Literary
or other was asked if one or two of Eliot's poems did not perhaps
display ... well, a bit if anti-semitism? The Maven replied
"Anti-semitic? My dear man, he hated EVERYBODY".
I suspect our JYoung is quite adaptable in these matters as well.
-- cary
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 02:15:59 PM |
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On 5-Oct-2006, (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
It qualifies as whatever those who suffered it want it to be called.
Stop trying to pretend that you actually care about anything other
tnan Jew-hating.
Susan
Heh. On the centennial of T.S. Eliot's birth, some British Literary
or other was asked if one or two of Eliot's poems did not perhaps
display ... well, a bit if anti-semitism? The Maven replied
"Anti-semitic? My dear man, he hated EVERYBODY".
You gotta laugh!
I suspect our JYoung is quite adaptable in these matters as well.
I suspect you are being a trifle understated.
Susan
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 07:18:45 AM |
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On 4 Oct 2006 21:21:46 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
"janospetrik@hotmail.com" <janospetrik@hotmail.com> in
<1160022106.365278.179620@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
[snip]
I always wondered why the attempted genocide against Natives was never
recorded in History as a "Holocaust". It started with Columbus'
arrival and continued into the the 20th century.
Millions of innocent people were killed. Doesn't that qualify as a
Holocaust?
Yep.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
04 Oct 2006 11:52:48 PM |
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J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a significa=
nt
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage. All=
of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genocidal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_15_50=
38731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturday's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use their =
own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of Public
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a member
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the parade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
--=20
----------
=20
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 08:53:16 AM |
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On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
Are you sure?
Susan
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 06:28:43 PM |
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wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Susan
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 08:49:09 AM |
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On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Okay, how are you sure?
Susan
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 09:40:17 AM |
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wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Okay, how are you sure?
Very sure.
I didn't want to believe, but the voices in my head kept telling me
otherwise.
We took a vote and I was outvoted.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 10:46:46 AM |
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On 6-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill?
0.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Okay, how are you sure?
Very sure.
I didn't want to believe, but the voices in my head kept telling me
otherwise.
We took a vote and I was outvoted.
Thanks for admitting you've done no actual research beyond what
other Europeans have done.
Susan
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 11:10:32 AM |
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wrote:
On 6-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
wrote:
On 5-Oct-2006, "Tuco Ramirez" <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill?
0.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Okay, how are you sure?
Very sure.
I didn't want to believe, but the voices in my head kept telling me
otherwise.
We took a vote and I was outvoted.
Thanks for admitting you've done no actual research beyond what
other Europeans have done.
But the voices in my head did research.
One simple question for ya:
If you didn't kill the indians, where are they?
Did they all move to Canada?
Oh wait, they all moved to Mexico, and are now coming back home, is
that it?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 01:32:24 AM |
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Tuco Ramirez wrote:
J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a signifi=
cant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage. A=
ll of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genocid=
al
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_15_=
5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturday's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use thei=
r own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of Pub=
lic
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a mem=
ber
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers. =
"We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the parade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The killing of South American Natives continues to this day.
Who do you think you're kidding?
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
05 Oct 2006 06:27:57 PM |
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|
wrote:
Tuco Ramirez wrote:
J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are forev=
er
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a signi=
ficant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritage.=
All of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a genoc=
idal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN_1=
5_5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Saturda=
y's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use th=
eir own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capitol =
as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of P=
ublic
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any nearby
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a m=
ember
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organizers=
.. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the para=
de
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo said.
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that doesn't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nation=
's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
The killing of South American Natives continues to this day.
=20
Who do you think you're kidding?
Who do YOU think you are kidding?
.
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| User: "Macabee" |
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| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
06 Oct 2006 08:03:59 AM |
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Tuco Ramirez wrote:
janospetrik@hotmail.com wrote:
Tuco Ramirez wrote:
J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are for=
ever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a sig=
nificant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritag=
e=2E All of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a gen=
ocidal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN=
_15_5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp=
at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Satur=
day's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use =
their own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capito=
l as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of=
Public
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any near=
by
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a=
member
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organize=
rs. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the pa=
rade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo sai=
d=2E
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that does=
n't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nati=
on's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
The killing of South American Natives continues to this day.
Who do you think you're kidding?
Who do YOU think you are kidding?
He is correct. From the 1500s Native People were killed. In the 1600s
Native People were killed.
In the 1700s Native People were kills.
In the Revolutionary War, most Tribes fought on the side of the
British, as they wanted to limit expansion
into Native Country.
One of George Washington's first actions was to direct the
extermination/genocide of certain Eastern Tribes.
Jackson was an Indian Killer.
When the Cherokees were told to leave for a barren wasteland, they took
the Government to the Supreme
Court. The Cherokees won, and Jackson said "Let them enforce it", and
sent them on a forced march,
"The Trail of Tears", the elderly, children and sick forced to march.
This was during the 1800s.
In the 1800s as the US went West, they fought and killed the Native
Tribes of the Plains and the South West.
In 1868 the Plains Indians could have wiped out all the Natives on the
Plains. The Government gave the
Tribes the lands from the Missouri River through the Black Hills as
long as the rivers run.
When gold was discovered in Deadwood, and settlers came, Custer who
should have been keeping settlers
out, illegally entered Native Land on a hostile action.
He was defeated on the field of battle by Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.
The Government called that
a massacre, but it was solders on the field of battle.
In 1898, there was a wintering camp at Wounded Knee. The 7th Calvary
surrounded them, aimed
their cannons into the camp of elderly, children, woman and men. Joe
American Horse even took
out his American Flag. Didn't help. They massacred everyone. The
official military records even
include the dogs in the death counts. In the Military History they
call that the Battle of Wounded Knee.
The Lakota people are still devastated by what that did to their
people.
In didn't stop there. Much of it was more insidious. Indians were
taken from their home and forced
to live in boarding schools. They were not allowed to speak their
language, practice their religion,
in this Land of the Free. If they spoke their Native Language, the
teachers, usually Nuns would make a circle
on the black board and make them keep their nose in the circle all day
long.
A great book describing this process is "The Original Sin" by Tim
Giago.
Native people were excluded from the economic systems. They were forced
to live for generations in what
was a welfare situation. As Edward Star Comes Out said, "More Indians
were destroyed with welfare than
all the bullets and germs combined".
Out of over 770 treaties and agreements, 7 have been honored.
When the Europeans came to the Americas, the average life span for an
Eastern Indian was in the 60s, the
European in the 40s. The Native medicine was more advanced, using
herbs and sweats, while the Europeans were bleeding people. There was
a gastronomic revolution in Europe, with many American foods reaching
the Europeans, while the Natives got alcohol, germs and Christianity.
The life spane of a Native American
these days is in the 40s.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Macabee" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 12:54:43 AM |
|
|
Tuco Ramirez wrote:
janospetrik@hotmail.com wrote:
Tuco Ramirez wrote:
J Young wrote:
Finally; a minority with a legitimate gripe. The jews cry about the
holocaust ( as if that's America's fault ) and the coloreds are for=
ever
yammering about slavery. Indians, on the other hand, did lose a sig=
nificant
portion of it's people, including all of it's territory and heritag=
e=2E All of
this was done in America's name to these people. Colombus was a gen=
ocidal
maniac and to honor him is a slap in the face to our Native American
population. I applaud AIM.
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
That's one high horse you riding!
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0%2C1299%2CDRMN=
_15_5038731%2C00.html
The American Indian Movement and other activist groups plan to camp=
at
Denver's Civic Center without permits this weekend to protest Satur=
day's
Columbus Day parade.
They say they don't need a permit from "an occupying power" to use =
their own
land.
State and Denver police said Monday they see things otherwise.
If the protesters choose to occupy Veterans Park next to the Capito=
l as
planned, State Patrol officers will remove them, said Department of=
Public
Safety spokesman Lance Clem.
Denver police said they will enforce an 11 p.m. curfew for any near=
by
property that falls under their jurisdiction.
"We hope that there's not a confrontation," said Glenn Spagnuolo, a=
member
of the Transform Columbus Day Alliance, one of the protest organize=
rs. "We
hope that our assurances to the police that we will not harm the pa=
rade
marchers will (let) us have this camp."
But the group will not ask permission to set up camp, Spagnuolo sai=
d=2E
"Asking an illegal colonizer for permission to be on land that does=
n't
belong to them doesn't work for us," he said.
Denver's Columbus Day parade, first held a century ago, is the nati=
on's
oldest. In recent years, however, it has become a lightning rod for
protesters who consider Columbus a genocidal conqueror.
--
----------
J Y=F6ung
youngopinions@aol.com
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
The killing of South American Natives continues to this day.
Who do you think you're kidding?
Who do YOU think you are kidding?
He is correct. From the 1500s Native People were killed. In the 1600s
Native People were killed.
In the 1700s Native People were kills.
In the Revolutionary War, most Tribes fought on the side of the
British, as they wanted to limit expansion
into Native Country.
One of George Washington's first actions was to direct the
extermination/genocide of certain Eastern Tribes.
Jackson was an Indian Killer.
When the Cherokees were told to leave for a barren wasteland, they took
the Government to the Supreme
Court. The Cherokees won, and Jackson said "Let them enforce it", and
sent them on a forced march,
"The Trail of Tears", the elderly, children and sick forced to march.
This was during the 1800s.
In the 1800s as the US went West, they fought and killed the Native
Tribes of the Plains and the South West.
In 1868 the Plains Indians could have wiped out all the Natives on the
Plains. The Government gave the
Tribes the lands from the Missouri River through the Black Hills as
long as the rivers run.
When gold was discovered in Deadwood, and settlers came, Custer who
should have been keeping settlers
out, illegally entered Native Land on a hostile action.
He was defeated on the field of battle by Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.
The Government called that
a massacre, but it was solders on the field of battle.
In 1898, there was a wintering camp at Wounded Knee. The 7th Calvary
surrounded them, aimed
their cannons into the camp of elderly, children, woman and men. Joe
American Horse even took
out his American Flag. Didn't help. They massacred everyone. The
official military records even
include the dogs in the death counts. In the Military History they
call that the Battle of Wounded Knee.
The Lakota people are still devastated by what that did to their
people.
In didn't stop there. Much of it was more insidious. Indians were
taken from their home and forced
to live in boarding schools. They were not allowed to speak their
language, practice their religion,
in this Land of the Free. If they spoke their Native Language, the
teachers, usually Nuns would make a circle
on the black board and make them keep their nose in the circle all day
long.
A great book describing this process is "The Original Sin" by Tim
Giago.
Native people were excluded from the economic systems. They were forced
to live for generations in what
was a welfare situation. As Edward Star Comes Out said, "More Indians
were destroyed with welfare than
all the bullets and germs combined". After being forced to live on
Welfare for generations, then the plug gets pulled.
While on this "Welfare" system, the tribes were forced to agree to this
system, which meant giving up huge amounts
of land, where they worked hard, gathered food, hunted, loved, met all
their needs, in exchange for food stuffs,
education, and other needs. Most of what they did receive was
inferrior, some rancid, some non existent.
Out of over 770 treaties and agreements, 7 have been honored.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 01:01:50 AM |
|
|
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 02:01:16 AM |
|
|
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill? 0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 02:06:09 AM |
|
|
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 01:26:53 PM |
|
|
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 01:33:18 PM |
|
|
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
Religion has caused a great deal of pain and death. We would clearly
be better off without it.
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
I don't read minds.
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
They were leaders. Their personal views were not important.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 02:09:21 PM |
|
|
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished "gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of 1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
Religion has caused a great deal of pain and death. We would clearly
be better off without it.
Communism and Socialism have caused a great deal of pain and death,
would you then agree that we would be better off without them?
I get the feeling you will find a "reason" why your logic doesn't apply
in this "special" case?
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
I don't read minds.
But you can read the minds of non-atheists? Interesting.
Let me guess, non-atheists are very simple creatures, incapable of
thought, and therefore their desires and intentions are plain to see,
specially to a sophisticated intellectual like yourself.
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
They were leaders. Their personal views were not important.
But the personal views of religious people are important, eh? Do I
detect a double standard?
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 04:07:07 PM |
|
|
In article <1160334561.713808.215560@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by
Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of
indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions
in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were
killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you
count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished
"gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with
nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of
1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
Religion has caused a great deal of pain and death. We would clearly
be better off without it.
Communism and Socialism have caused a great deal of pain and death,
would you then agree that we would be better off without them?
I agree there have been great pain and suffering in communist and
socialist countries. But far more due to Christianity, for instance.
I get the feeling you will find a "reason" why your logic doesn't apply
in this "special" case?
No special case. Religion has caused great pain, suffering, death, and
ignorance. It has held back humanity, and is used as an excuse for
much pain and suffering. If I could rid the world of all religion at
with the snap of my fingers I would do it instantly.
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
I don't read minds.
But you can read the minds of non-atheists?
Nope - I never said that.
Interesting.
Let me guess, non-atheists are very simple creatures, incapable of
thought, and therefore their desires and intentions are plain to see,
specially to a sophisticated intellectual like yourself.
Atheists act as they do because of who they are. What you see is what
you get. Theists need the threat of Hell and the reward of Heaven or
they will act differently. The Theist acts as he does out of fear.
They must be coerced into acting as they do.
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
They were leaders. Their personal views were not important.
But the personal views of religious people are important, eh?
You bet.
Do I
detect a double standard?
Not at all. Ask me about the Pope and I will say the same thing.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 04:43:16 PM |
|
|
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160334561.713808.215560@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by
Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of
indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of millions
in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were
killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you
count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished
"gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with
nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of
1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
Religion has caused a great deal of pain and death. We would clearly
be better off without it.
Communism and Socialism have caused a great deal of pain and death,
would you then agree that we would be better off without them?
I agree there have been great pain and suffering in communist and
socialist countries. But far more due to Christianity, for instance.
Shall we count the dead caused by communism and socialism and compare
that to the dead caused by ALL religions in the last 92 years?
I am no "religionist", but I don't embrace any evil philosophy just
because it rejects it.
I get the feeling you will find a "reason" why your logic doesn't apply
in this "special" case?
No special case. Religion has caused great pain, suffering, death, and
ignorance. It has held back humanity, and is used as an excuse for
much pain and suffering. If I could rid the world of all religion at
with the snap of my fingers I would do it instantly.
You are obvously committed to freedom; freedom to believe what YOU
believe, otherwise, one is sent away for "re-education", and if that
doesn't work, well they can allways made to "disappear".
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
I don't read minds.
But you can read the minds of non-atheists?
Nope - I never said that.
You know what goes through their minds, but you can't read them.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Let me guess, non-atheists are very simple creatures, incapable of
thought, and therefore their desires and intentions are plain to see,
specially to a sophisticated intellectual like yourself.
Atheists act as they do because of who they are.
Really? I suppose you pay taxes because you want to, not because you
will be sent to jail if you don't!
What you see is what
you get. Theists need the threat of Hell and the reward of Heaven or
they will act differently.
Really, how do you know?
The Theist acts as he does out of fear.
They must be coerced into acting as they do.
That's right! They must be "re-educated" and if that doesn't work,
they must be sent out on their way to heaven sooner that they expected,
right?
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
They were leaders. Their personal views were not important.
But the personal views of religious people are important, eh?
You bet.
Do I
detect a double standard?
Not at all. Ask me about the Pope and I will say the same thing.
So the personal view of the Pope is important because he is religious,
AND it is not important because he is a leader! Care to explain to
this unenlightened non-atheist?
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 06:25:04 PM |
|
|
In article <1160343796.814044.8170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Tuco
Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160334561.713808.215560@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article
<1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did
Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by
Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of
indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that
clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of
spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of
millions
in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this
day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were
killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you
count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished
"gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with
nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of
1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of
murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause
of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your same "logic", you don't
reach the conclussion that lack of religion causes mass-murdering,
stealing, etc.
Religion has caused a great deal of pain and death. We would clearly
be better off without it.
Communism and Socialism have caused a great deal of pain and death,
would you then agree that we would be better off without them?
I agree there have been great pain and suffering in communist and
socialist countries. But far more due to Christianity, for instance.
Shall we count the dead caused by communism and socialism and compare
that to the dead caused by ALL religions in the last 92 years?
Sure. Religion will beat it, hands down.
I am no "religionist", but I don't embrace any evil philosophy just
because it rejects it.
Whatever.
I get the feeling you will find a "reason" why your logic doesn't apply
in this "special" case?
No special case. Religion has caused great pain, suffering, death, and
ignorance. It has held back humanity, and is used as an excuse for
much pain and suffering. If I could rid the world of all religion at
with the snap of my fingers I would do it instantly.
You are obvously committed to freedom; freedom to believe what YOU
believe, otherwise, one is sent away for "re-education", and if that
doesn't work, well they can allways made to "disappear".
Well you are certainly doing a poor job of supporting your position.
You "forgot" to answer these questions:
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious
I don't read minds.
But you can read the minds of non-atheists?
Nope - I never said that.
You know what goes through their minds, but you can't read them.
Interesting.
You are getting lost.
Interesting.
Let me guess, non-atheists are very simple creatures, incapable of
thought, and therefore their desires and intentions are plain to see,
specially to a sophisticated intellectual like yourself.
Atheists act as they do because of who they are.
Really? I suppose you pay taxes because you want to, not because you
will be sent to jail if you don't!
Brilliant.
What you see is what
you get. Theists need the threat of Hell and the reward of Heaven or
they will act differently.
Really, how do you know?
Experience.
The Theist acts as he does out of fear.
They must be coerced into acting as they do.
That's right! They must be "re-educated" and if that doesn't work,
they must be sent out on their way to heaven sooner that they expected,
right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Since they were not, then obviously lack of religion caused them to be
evil.
They were leaders. Their personal views were not important.
But the personal views of religious people are important, eh?
You bet.
Do I
detect a double standard?
Not at all. Ask me about the Pope and I will say the same thing.
So the personal view of the Pope is important because he is religious,
AND it is not important because he is a leader! Care to explain to
this unenlightened non-atheist?
Care to explain why you have such a tough time keeping up? Stop
repeating what I say in such ignorant ways.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
|
| Title: Re: Indians to protest Columbus Day parade |
08 Oct 2006 09:22:31 PM |
|
|
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160343796.814044.8170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Tuco
Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160334561.713808.215560@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160332013.397541.273840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <1160290876.554891.190380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Tuco Ramirez <tucodrat@yahoo.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article
<1160286883.284254.44120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Macabee <Bob4Health@hotmail.com> wrote:
Simple questions:
How many indians in what you call America (USA) did
Columbus
kill?
0.
How many did you gringos kill? Millions.
Most Natives in North & South America were killed by
Spaniards and
Portugese.
The vast majority of people living in south america are of
indian
descent. You don't think that my compadres, the ones that
clean
your
toilets, build your houses, cut your yard, etc. are of
spanish
descent,
do you?
And where are all the north american indians? Out of
millions
in a
whole continent, how many did you allow to survive to this
day?
After the initial wars of conquest, in which thousands were
killed,
there was peace until the wars of independence (unless you
count the
regular "visits" to the region by certain distinguished
"gentlemen"
such as Sir Francis Drake; in my country, we remember with
nostalgia
his "tours" of 1573, 1576, and the "Burn-a-Palooza" tour of
1589).
Let's compare that to what happened in the US:
You didn't kill the indians for 5 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 10 years.
You didn't kill the indians for 100 years.
You did it for HUNDREDS of years.
We are a very religious country.
Was Lenin very religious?
Was Stalin very religious?
Was Chairman Mao very religious?
Was Pol Pot very religious?
By your "logic", lack of religion is the cause of plenty of
murdering.
Not at all, you have me wrong. By my logic, religion is the cause
of
plenty of murdering. Religion is the root of all evil.
No, you have ME wrong. If, according to you, religion caused the
murder of the indians, then why using your | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
