INTELLIGENT DESIGN???

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Bill"
Date:	02 Nov 2005 12:57:07 PM
Object:	INTELLIGENT DESIGN???

Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created god?
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??
First, let's look at the human body.
The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so close
that it often causes choking (and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't there two
separate openings that do not conflict with each other?
The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as the
both the
entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air. This is
the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe through
the carburetor manifold!
And why include a non functioning body organ like the Appendix to, cause
serious problems including death?
The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver wholesome
sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans. Likewise the
female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of new infants. Is
running a sewer line through the middle of a creation organ logical or
intelligent?
There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation and
natural selection. If it works it is reproduced. If it doesn't work, it
doesn't survive. If an omniscient God created man he certainly would have
created a more logical and efficient design.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to kill and eat other animals
to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
The recent earthquake in Pakistan and India killed over 70,000 innocent men,
women and children of many religious persuasions. Over 2,500,000have been
left homeless with a harsh winter approaching.
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions INCLUDING PERFECTLY INNOCENT CHILDREN.
This all loving and all caring god also hates perfectly innocent animals and
afflicts them with many painful, debilitating and fatal diseases. Presently
a Mad Cow like disease is infecting millions of Sheep, Deer and Elk. It has
been determined that these wild animals are being infected because infected
animals release the disease causing prions in their urine on the grass which
other grazers then eat. Up to twenty percent of these animals have become
infected with this painful wasting and fatal disease.
Perhaps this loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The Christian god belief is about as credible as belief in Santa Claus, The
Wizard of Oz and Aesop's Fables.
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the
unimaginably vast
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.
The objective evidence is that NO GOD CREATED MAN but quite the contrary;
that MAN CREATED GODS!
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	05 Nov 2005 06:30:13 PM

bob young wrote:

Matt Silberstein wrote:

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:57:07 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in
<2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

[snip]

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??

It is impossible to tell if the body is perfect or not without knowing
the intension of the supposed designers. You are trying to nail the
jell-o to the wall to point out that it is useless.

[snip]

Intelligent Design!

There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions

===>They are products of intelligent human's
creative imagination. But it takes a lot less intelligence to
believe them. -- L.

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 07:08:19 AM

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436D4E95.4F69575D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions

===>They are products of intelligent human's
creative imagination.

Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this simply a guess
on your part?
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 07:44:18 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Libertarius" wrote
: >> There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions
: >
: > ===>They are products of intelligent human's
: > creative imagination.
:
: Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this simply a
guess
: on your part?
Aren't you intelligent enough to know that the burden of proof is on you?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 07:47:27 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:wtWdnbM8EPFclfPenZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

The burden of proof is on the accuser.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 07:56:12 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Libertarius" wrote
: > : >> There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions
: > : >
: > : > ===>They are products of intelligent human's
: > : > creative imagination.
: > :
: > : Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this simply a
: > guess
: > : on your part?
: >
: > Aren't you intelligent enough to know that the burden of proof is on
you?
:
: The burden of proof is on the accuser.
No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:01:04 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:l_ydnWerfKUWlvPenZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Where did you get that from?
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:03:36 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : "Libertarius" wrote
: > : > : >> There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions
: > : > : >
: > : > : > ===>They are products of intelligent human's
: > : > : > creative imagination.
: > : > :
: > : > : Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this
simply
: > a
: > : > guess
: > : > : on your part?
: > : >
: > : > Aren't you intelligent enough to know that the burden of proof is on
: > you?
: > :
: > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: >
: > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
:
: Where did you get that from?
If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of proof
to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:07:06 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:QbidndY2vK3akPPenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com...

: > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: >
: > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
:
: Where did you get that from?

If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of proof
to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?

You're not going to answer the question, are you?
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:11:39 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > : > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: > : >
: > : > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
: > :
: > : Where did you get that from?
: >
: > If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of
proof
: > to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
:
: You're not going to answer the question, are you?
I just did. Read my signature.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:13:33 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:SfudnbpPfpa3kvPenZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@comcast.com...

No you didn't. You failed to cite it first of all.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:17:26 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
: > : > :
: > : > : Where did you get that from?
: > : >
: > : > If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of
: > proof
: > : > to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
: > :
: > : You're not going to answer the question, are you?
: >
: > I just did. Read my signature.
:
: No you didn't. You failed to cite it first of all.
What part of what I said do you disagree with?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:19:39 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:iZadneBcAKcVjfPeRVn-uw@comcast.com...

The part where you claimed to have answered the question.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:24:26 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > : > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : Where did you get that from?
: > : > : >
: > : > : > If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the
burden
: > of
: > : > proof
: > : > : > to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
: > : > :
: > : > : You're not going to answer the question, are you?
: > : >
: > : > I just did. Read my signature.
: > :
: > : No you didn't. You failed to cite it first of all.
: >
: > What part of what I said do you disagree with?
:
: The part where you claimed to have answered the question.
What part of my answer do you disagree with?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bill Gamelson"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:26:24 AM

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:pYudncan06G0j_PenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

You haven't provided an answer.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:34:14 AM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > : > : > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: > : > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > : > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
: > : > : > : > :
: > : > : > : > : Where did you get that from?
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the
: > burden
: > : > of
: > : > : > proof
: > : > : > : > to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : You're not going to answer the question, are you?
: > : > : >
: > : > : > I just did. Read my signature.
: > : > :
: > : > : No you didn't. You failed to cite it first of all.
: > : >
: > : > What part of what I said do you disagree with?
: > :
: > : The part where you claimed to have answered the question.
: >
: > What part of my answer do you disagree with?
:
: You haven't provided an answer.
Prove it!
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 08:57:49 AM

"Bear" wrote
: "Bill Gamelson" wrote
:: You haven't provided an answer.
:
: Prove it!
C'mon Billy, you accused me of not providing an answer. According to your
thinking, the accuser has to prove his accusation.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 05:58:16 PM

Bear wrote:

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : "Libertarius" wrote
: > : > : >> There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions
: > : > : >
: > : > : > ===>They are products of intelligent human's
: > : > : > creative imagination.
: > : > :
: > : > : Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this
simply
: > a
: > : > guess
: > : > : on your part?
: > : >
: > : > Aren't you intelligent enough to know that the burden of proof is on
: > you?
: > :
: > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: >
: > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
:
: Where did you get that from?

If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of proof
to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?

===>If I said it was not true, he would claim it was an "accusation
without proof". ;-) -- L.
.

User: "Bear"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 06:24:28 PM

"Libertarius" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : > : "Libertarius" wrote
: > : > : > : >> There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions
: > : > : > : >
: > : > : > : > ===>They are products of intelligent human's
: > : > : > : > creative imagination.
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this
: > simply
: > : > a
: > : > : > guess
: > : > : > : on your part?
: > : > : >
: > : > : > Aren't you intelligent enough to know that the burden of proof
is on
: > : > you?
: > : > :
: > : > : The burden of proof is on the accuser.
: > : >
: > : > No, it's on the one making the positive claim.
: > :
: > : Where did you get that from?
: >
: > If I claimed to be 30 feet tall, wouldn't you consider the burden of
proof
: > to be on me? Or would you just believe me without any proof?
:
: ===>If I said it was not true, he would claim it was an "accusation
: without proof". ;-) -- L.
No doubt.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 05:45:21 PM

Bill Gamelson wrote:

"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:wtWdnbM8EPFclfPenZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

===>It was no accusation.
Just an observation that you make baseless claims. -- L.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 05:33:57 PM

Bill Gamelson wrote:

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436D4E95.4F69575D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions

===>They are products of intelligent human's
creative imagination.

Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this simply a guess
on your part?

===>Do you have anything intelligent to say or is this
just a dumb little garbage from you? -- L.
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	06 Nov 2005 10:02:46 AM

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 07:08:19 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436D4E95.4F69575D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

There is nothing remotely intelligent about religions

===>They are products of intelligent human's
creative imagination.

Do you have any objective verifyable proof of this or is this simply a guess
on your part?

All the other thousands are merely beliefs. There is no reason for
anybody outside your relion to treat yours any differently.
Bu then you already knew that.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	05 Nov 2005 09:49:16 AM

Matt:
It is impossible to tell if the body is perfect or not without knowing
the intension of the supposed designers. You are trying to nail the
jell-o to the wall to point out that it is useless.
Matt Silberstein
Peter:
So if I buy a car, and I bring it back because of imperfections,
the car-company can get away with anything,
because I didn't know the intention of the designer???
Are you a car-salesman by any chance:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
November 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
Matt:
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Peter:
I was actually willing to do that, if I had any hope of succes I would
act.
But I have great fears my option are limited.
I could donate of course, or sign a petition, but would that actually
help?
.

User: "Bill"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	03 Nov 2005 03:10:23 PM

What about all the other lack of intelligent design win the world?
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:0c7im1plhvqm4ut54tvs5squ5t90u78n4q@4ax.com...

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:57:07 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in
<2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

[snip]

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently
designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect
God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??

It is impossible to tell if the body is perfect or not without knowing
the intension of the supposed designers. You are trying to nail the
jell-o to the wall to point out that it is useless.

[snip]

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

User: "Matt Silberstein"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	03 Nov 2005 05:38:58 PM

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:10:23 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in <Z_uaf.34627$x6.21723@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
wrote:

What about all the other lack of intelligent design win the world?

Top posting non-sequitur. So, again, you are wrong about judging the
design without knowing the designers' goals.

"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:0c7im1plhvqm4ut54tvs5squ5t90u78n4q@4ax.com...

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:57:07 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in
<2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

[snip]

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently
designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect
God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??

--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.

User: "Jason"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	03 Nov 2005 05:59:24 PM

In article <cr7lm15u0s2sve3ndajccsav0bdsn5e8kd@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:10:23 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in <Z_uaf.34627$x6.21723@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
wrote:

What about all the other lack of intelligent design win the world?

Top posting non-sequitur. So, again, you are wrong about judging the
design without knowing the designers' goals.

"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:0c7im1plhvqm4ut54tvs5squ5t90u78n4q@4ax.com...

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:57:07 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in
<2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

[snip]

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently
designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect
God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??

Matt,
If you have a science background and can debate evolutionists, please
subscribe to this newsgroup
sci.life-extension
There are lots of evolutionists at that site and it appears that I am the
only advocate of creation science and ID that subscribes to that
newsgroup. I could use your help.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.

User: "Mark Stahl"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	03 Nov 2005 07:11:10 PM

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0311051559250001@pm4-broad-6.snlo.dialup.fix.net...

In article <cr7lm15u0s2sve3ndajccsav0bdsn5e8kd@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:10:23 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in <Z_uaf.34627$x6.21723@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
wrote:

What about all the other lack of intelligent design win the world?

Top posting non-sequitur. So, again, you are wrong about judging the
design without knowing the designers' goals.

"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:0c7im1plhvqm4ut54tvs5squ5t90u78n4q@4ax.com...

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:57:07 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Bill"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> in
<2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

[snip]

Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence
of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently
designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill
others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful
perfect
God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??

People with a science background do not generally advocate ID.
.

User: "Matt Silberstein"
Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???	03 Nov 2005 07:32:49 PM

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:59:24 -0800, in alt.atheism ,

(Jason) in <jason-0311051559250001@pm4-broad-6.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote: