| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
02 Nov 2005 06:57:07 PM |
| Object: |
INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created god?
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??
First, let's look at the human body.
The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so close
that it often causes choking (and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't there two
separate openings that do not conflict with each other?
The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as the
both the
entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air. This is
the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe through
the carburetor manifold!
And why include a non functioning body organ like the Appendix to, cause
serious problems including death?
The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver wholesome
sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans. Likewise the
female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of new infants. Is
running a sewer line through the middle of a creation organ logical or
intelligent?
There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation and
natural selection. If it works it is reproduced. If it doesn't work, it
doesn't survive. If an omniscient God created man he certainly would have
created a more logical and efficient design.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to kill and eat other animals
to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
The recent earthquake in Pakistan and India killed over 70,000 innocent men,
women and children of many religious persuasions. Over 2,500,000have been
left homeless with a harsh winter approaching.
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions INCLUDING PERFECTLY INNOCENT CHILDREN.
This all loving and all caring god also hates perfectly innocent animals and
afflicts them with many painful, debilitating and fatal diseases. Presently
a Mad Cow like disease is infecting millions of Sheep, Deer and Elk. It has
been determined that these wild animals are being infected because infected
animals release the disease causing prions in their urine on the grass which
other grazers then eat. Up to twenty percent of these animals have become
infected with this painful wasting and fatal disease.
Perhaps this loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The Christian god belief is about as credible as belief in Santa Claus, The
Wizard of Oz and Aesop's Fables.
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the
unimaginably vast
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.
The objective evidence is that NO GOD CREATED MAN but quite the contrary;
that MAN CREATED GODS!
.
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|
| User: "Melchizedek" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
02 Nov 2005 09:04:08 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created god?
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??
First, let's look at the human body.
The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so close
that it often causes choking (and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't there two
separate openings that do not conflict with each other?
The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as the
both the
entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent air. This is
the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe through
the carburetor manifold!
And why include a non functioning body organ like the Appendix to, cause
serious problems including death?
The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver wholesome
sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans. Likewise the
female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of new infants. Is
running a sewer line through the middle of a creation organ logical or
intelligent?
There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation and
natural selection. If it works it is reproduced. If it doesn't work, it
doesn't survive. If an omniscient God created man he certainly would have
created a more logical and efficient design.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to kill and eat other animals
to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
The recent earthquake in Pakistan and India killed over 70,000 innocent men,
women and children of many religious persuasions. Over 2,500,000have been
left homeless with a harsh winter approaching.
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions INCLUDING PERFECTLY INNOCENT CHILDREN.
This all loving and all caring god also hates perfectly innocent animals and
afflicts them with many painful, debilitating and fatal diseases. Presently
a Mad Cow like disease is infecting millions of Sheep, Deer and Elk. It has
been determined that these wild animals are being infected because infected
animals release the disease causing prions in their urine on the grass which
other grazers then eat. Up to twenty percent of these animals have become
infected with this painful wasting and fatal disease.
Perhaps this loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The Christian god belief is about as credible as belief in Santa Claus, The
Wizard of Oz and Aesop's Fables.
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the
unimaginably vast
Universe, of billions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across.
The objective evidence is that NO GOD CREATED MAN but quite the contrary;
that MAN CREATED GODS!
http://lulu.com/bibleweb/
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
02 Nov 2005 09:09:16 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:04:08 -0500, "Melchizedek"
<Melchizedek@as-if.com> wrote:
Oh, *****. Smeg-head's back. (Cheese *****, look it up)
<plonk> yet again
.
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
03 Nov 2005 02:49:41 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory. Ever heard of the Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual death.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that this
happens.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe. He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to have
a Creator. You know nothing of the subject, or of logic.
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.
Yes, the complexity, and overall smooth running of the universe, according
to physical laws, going from birth (of the Universe) to death is an evidence
(NOT proof) of an intelligent designer. Just like a beautiful house (far
less complex than the Universe) is evidence of the intelligence of it's
designer and builder.
The problems you mention next (which I snipped) only prove that there is
something wrong...Not that there is no God. That "something wrong" is the
point of the Bible, and His eventual resolution of that wrong.
God bless
Carl
.
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
04 Nov 2005 12:33:35 PM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
No, it does not.
Ever heard of the Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual death.
The "big bang" theory does not postulate the eventual death of the universe.
It traces the current expansion of the universe back in time to what is
currently thought to be a singularity, beyond which we know, essentially,
nothing.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that this
happens.
There are, however, scientific theories concerning the generation of
singularities, the energy of vacuum fluctuations, and of space-time
inflation. They are under investigation, and while evidence is sparse it is
growing all the time.
Meanwhile, the postulate that there was just some powerful creator-being who
willed thing into existence (that's your theory, right?) not only is not
being investigated, but cannot be. It is a useless theory.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe.
Why?
He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator.
Why do you assume that requiring some sort of cause leading to effect is a
requirement only of this particular universe? That position is highly
illogical.
You know nothing of the subject, or of logic.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is
proof
of god.
Yes, the complexity, and overall smooth running of the universe, according
to physical laws, going from birth (of the Universe) to death is an
evidence
(NOT proof) of an intelligent designer.
How so? Is the complexity and overall smooth operation of a snowflake
evidence of its design or the result of a natural process that can result in
complex patterns?
And if that is the case, do things which are simple and do not "run
smoothly" (what's your evidence for this smooth running, anyway?) evidence
against it?
Just like a beautiful house (far
less complex than the Universe) is evidence of the intelligence of it's
designer and builder.
LOL. Only because we know that people build houses. Poor analogy.
The problems you mention next (which I snipped) only prove that there is
something wrong...Not that there is no God. That "something wrong" is the
point of the Bible, and His eventual resolution of that wrong.
I thought you said the universe was "smooth running" and "intelligently
designed"? If that were the case, why is there something wrong with it? Is
your god incompetent?
Perhaps more to the point, why do you think there's anything special about
the bible? Why isn't it just another old book?
.
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
04 Nov 2005 02:45:08 PM |
|
|
"Mark Stahl" <stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote in message
news:CuKdnaWgD74byfbeRVn-qg@giganews.com...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
No, it does not.
Ever heard of the Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual death.
The "big bang" theory does not postulate the eventual death of the
universe.
It traces the current expansion of the universe back in time to what is
currently thought to be a singularity, beyond which we know, essentially,
nothing.
The Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe starts with a point
singularity, a sudden expansion, a continual expansion, an eventual
collapse, and a return to the point singularity. Modern evidence has
demonstrated that such a contraction is not going to happen. The universe
will eventually die out.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
There are, however, scientific theories concerning the generation of
singularities, the energy of vacuum fluctuations, and of space-time
inflation. They are under investigation, and while evidence is sparse it
is
growing all the time.
Meanwhile, the postulate that there was just some powerful creator-being
who
willed thing into existence (that's your theory, right?) not only is not
being investigated, but cannot be. It is a useless theory.
Not postulating a Creator God. He has revealed Himself, and takes credit
for the Univers. He entered history with the Sons of Isreal, and came to
earth as a man, and has had great impact upon our history.
You are entirely correct in saying that the evidence for what you are saying
is sparse. Way to sparse for an objective person to rule out a Creator.
God Bless
Carl
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and
scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator
would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe.
Why?
He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator.
Why do you assume that requiring some sort of cause leading to effect is a
requirement only of this particular universe? That position is highly
illogical.
It is only of this particular Universe that we are talking about. In this
one, cause before effect is the general rule.
Are you postulating other Universes? There is no evidence of that. Some
theories are having to use the "Multi-Verse" idea, but that is to shore up
their theories, not because there is any evidence of such.
I was also agreeing with Bill, in that if God is the Creator of the
Universe, He would be more complex, and greater than the Universe. I just
state that He is wrong to think that this would need the Creator to have a
Creator. His logic is faulty here.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
04 Nov 2005 06:14:08 PM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131115521.209609@w9.dnx.net...
"Mark Stahl" <stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote in message
news:CuKdnaWgD74byfbeRVn-qg@giganews.com...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always
was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God
is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
No, it does not.
Ever heard of the Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual
death.
The "big bang" theory does not postulate the eventual death of the
universe.
It traces the current expansion of the universe back in time to what is
currently thought to be a singularity, beyond which we know, essentially,
nothing.
The Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe starts with a point
singularity, a sudden expansion, a continual expansion,
Right so far...
an eventual
collapse, and a return to the point singularity.
This is not part of the Big Bang theory. When it was postulated, the
question remained open entirely, depending on essentially how much mass and
energy the universe contains.
Modern evidence has
demonstrated that such a contraction is not going to happen. The universe
will eventually die out.
That is, I believe, the current consensus (heat death) but is not really
part of the Big Bang theory.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
There are, however, scientific theories concerning the generation of
singularities, the energy of vacuum fluctuations, and of space-time
inflation. They are under investigation, and while evidence is sparse it
is
growing all the time.
Meanwhile, the postulate that there was just some powerful creator-being
who
willed thing into existence (that's your theory, right?) not only is not
being investigated, but cannot be. It is a useless theory.
Not postulating a Creator God.
Sure you are.
He has revealed Himself, and takes credit
for the Univers. He entered history with the Sons of Isreal, and came to
earth as a man, and has had great impact upon our history.
Don't be absurd. Some humans may claim what you claim, but they have
absolutely no evidence of such.
You are entirely correct in saying that the evidence for what you are
saying
is sparse.
Where did I say that?
Way to sparse for an objective person to rule out a Creator.
Why would that be a preferable alternative hypothesis? I would think that,
even if the evidence for any particular theory is sparse, you'd have to go
rather far down the list of possibilities before anyone gets to some guy
magicking things into existence.
God Bless
Carl
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the
old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and
scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what
created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator
would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe.
Why?
He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator.
Why do you assume that requiring some sort of cause leading to effect is
a
requirement only of this particular universe? That position is highly
illogical.
It is only of this particular Universe that we are talking about. In this
one, cause before effect is the general rule.
One would assume that to be the case in any universe.
Are you postulating other Universes?
No, but you are:
"He would not be subject to the conditions of the Universe"
implying that this "he" is somewhere other than this universe, which would
have to be a different one.
There is no evidence of that.
I agree. So why are you making that claim here?
Some
theories are having to use the "Multi-Verse" idea, but that is to shore up
their theories, not because there is any evidence of such.
Or because they need gods to be somewhere, apparently.
I was also agreeing with Bill, in that if God is the Creator of the
Universe, He would be more complex, and greater than the Universe.
And why would you assume that?
I just
state that He is wrong to think that this would need the Creator to have a
Creator. His logic is faulty here.
Why would the universe need a creator but not this god? It's your logic that
is faulty. If you're assuming that things can exist without creators, why
not assume the thing you actually know exists (the universe) and not some
imaginary creator of which you know nothing and have no evidence? It's not
parsimonious.
.
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| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
03 Nov 2005 09:05:05 PM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
Pure unsupported belief - what known as faith unsupported by ANY objective
evidence.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory. Ever heard of the
Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual death.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that this
happens.
Yes I have heard of and am familiar with the "Big Bang Theory"
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that this
happens.
And there is NO "scientific evidence that his does not happen. There is even
less ( NONE )scientific
evidence that your god created the Universe.
Fisrstly it is accepted as just an unproven theory. It does not claim that
the Universe
came from nothing and certianly does not claim that the Universe was created
by your god.
We just don't know or fully understand what happened 14 BILLION years ago.
Not knowing is NOT evidence of your god.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe. He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator. You know nothing of the subject, or of logic.
I know just as much about your god claims as you do and understand logic
even better.
There is NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE of the existence of your god
or any of the thousands of other gods claimed by various religions over the
centuries.
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is
proof
of god.
Yes, the complexity, and overall smooth running of the universe, according
to physical laws, going from birth (of the Universe) to death is an
evidence
(NOT proof) of an intelligent designer. Just like a beautiful house (far
less complex than the Universe) is evidence of the intelligence of it's
designer and builder.
The problems you mention next (which I snipped) only prove that there is
something wrong...Not that there is no God. That "something wrong" is the
point of the Bible, and His eventual resolution of that wrong.
The bibles are nothing but a nonsensical mixture of fiction, myth and
impossible fables.
they are not evidence of any gods.
God bless
Carl
You either did not read my full post or have a serious problem with
comprehension.
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of god.
And you claim the "overall smooth running of the universe" is evidence of
your god.
Smooth running!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
intelligent design! If any real God wanted to create intelligently designed
people he would design humans that did not steal, curse, and kill others,
cause wars or sin in other ways. Why would such an all powerful perfect God
create such imperfect creatures and such a grossly imperfect world??
First, let's look at the human body.
The openings to our breathing air and swallowing food and water are so close
that it often causes choking (and sometimes fatal!) Why aren't there two
separate openings that do not conflict with each other?
The lung design is equally quaint and inefficient. The same tube acts as the
both the entry for life giving oxygen and the exhaust pipe for the spent
air. This is
the equivalent of an auto engine designer putting the exhaust pipe through
the carburetor manifold!
And why include a non functioning body organ like the Appendix to, cause
serious problems including death?
The penis is used to dispose of foul bodily fluids and to deliver wholesome
sperm to fertilize women's eggs for the birth of new humans. Likewise the
female's vagina is used as a sewer line and for delivery of new infants. Is
running a sewer line through the middle of a creation organ logical or
intelligent?
There is no evidence of intelligent design but only for random mutation and
natural selection. If it works it is reproduced. If it doesn't work, it
doesn't survive. If an omniscient God created man he certainly would have
created a more logical and efficient design.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions?
Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die
of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of totally innocent children in
this horrible way?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally "innocent children"
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a
miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
god create animals (including man) that need to kill and eat other animals
to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more
millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed 270,000 lives; men, women and innocent
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
innocent children!
The recent earthquake in Pakistan and India killed over 70,000 innocent men,
women and children of many religious persuasions. Over 2,500,000have been
left homeless with a harsh winter approaching.
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th.
and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and
malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions INCLUDING PERFECTLY INNOCENT CHILDREN.
This all loving and all caring god also hates perfectly innocent animals and
afflicts them with many painful, debilitating and fatal diseases. Presently
a Mad Cow like disease is infecting millions of Sheep, Deer and Elk. It has
been determined that these wild animals are being infected because infected
animals release the disease causing prions in their urine on the grass which
other grazers then eat. Up to twenty percent of these animals have become
infected with this painful wasting and fatal disease.
Perhaps this loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and
torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think
he will let us enjoy peace and happiness in his eternal Heaven after death?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an "Intelligent Designer". The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
Why would your god create such a cruel and nasty world?
.
|
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| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
04 Nov 2005 02:30:40 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7Wuaf.34611$x6.12073@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
Pure unsupported belief - what known as faith unsupported by ANY objective
evidence.
I was not giving evidence, just stating that you for once had something
correct. But, you are right, there is no objective evidence you know
anything.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory. Ever heard of the
Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual death.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
Yes I have heard of and am familiar with the "Big Bang Theory"
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
And there is NO "scientific evidence that his does not happen. There is
even
less ( NONE )scientific
evidence that your god created the Universe.
Just none that you are willing to look at.
Fisrstly it is accepted as just an unproven theory. It does not claim that
the Universe
came from nothing and certianly does not claim that the Universe was
created
by your god.
We just don't know or fully understand what happened 14 BILLION years ago.
Not knowing is NOT evidence of your god.
I never said it was. Another of your distortions.
What I said is that the Universe is not eternal.
However, if you were able to go back in time (or look far enough out into
the Universe) what would you see? Matter being created spontaneously from
nothing. Something you would expect if either Creation or Cosmic Evolution
were true.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and
scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator
would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe. He would not be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator. You know nothing of the subject, or of logic.
I know just as much about your god claims as you do and understand logic
even better.
If that were the case, then you would be able to present the premise of your
argument without distorting what we believe. Something you have been
unable, and unwilling to do.
There is NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE of the existence of your god
or any of the thousands of other gods claimed by various religions over
the
centuries.
Again, just none you are willing to look at objectively.
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is
proof
of god.
Yes, the complexity, and overall smooth running of the universe,
according
to physical laws, going from birth (of the Universe) to death is an
evidence
(NOT proof) of an intelligent designer. Just like a beautiful house
(far
less complex than the Universe) is evidence of the intelligence of it's
designer and builder.
The problems you mention next (which I snipped) only prove that there is
something wrong...Not that there is no God. That "something wrong" is
the
point of the Bible, and His eventual resolution of that wrong.
The bibles are nothing but a nonsensical mixture of fiction, myth and
impossible fables.
they are not evidence of any gods.
Again, I never said they were. I said that The Bible accurately portrays
that mankind has a problem. Something you admit to.
Again, not having the least idea of logic, or history, or what anyone else
says, you distort the argument. There is no intelligent debate with you,
just a constant attack against something you have no understanding of.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
07 Nov 2005 12:55:40 AM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131114653.606244@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7Wuaf.34611$x6.12073@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always
was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God
is
eternal, and the universe is not.
Pure unsupported belief - what known as faith unsupported by ANY
objective
evidence.
I was not giving evidence, just stating that you for once had something
correct. But, you are right, there is no objective evidence you know
anything.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory. Ever heard of the
Big
Bang? It postulates the birth of the Universe, and it's eventual
death.
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
Yes I have heard of and am familiar with the "Big Bang Theory"
Some, in an attempt to make the Universe eternal postulate that the
Universe
goes through cycles of birth, expansion, contraction, to the original
point
state, to rebirth....There is, however, no "Scientific" evidence that
this
happens.
And there is NO "scientific evidence that his does not happen. There is
even
less ( NONE )scientific
evidence that your god created the Universe.
Just none that you are willing to look at.
Why not just be honest and admit you have NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE
that proves the existence of your or anyone elses god.
If you had it you would be posting it all over the Net.
Fisrstly it is accepted as just an unproven theory. It does not claim
that
the Universe
came from nothing and certianly does not claim that the Universe was
created
by your god.
We just don't know or fully understand what happened 14 BILLION years
ago.
Not knowing is NOT evidence of your god.
I never said it was. Another of your distortions.
What I said is that the Universe is not eternal.
However, if you were able to go back in time (or look far enough out into
the Universe) what would you see? Matter being created spontaneously from
nothing. Something you would expect if either Creation or Cosmic
Evolution
were true.
There is no evidence that matter or the Universe was created from nothing.
And if there was this is not evidence the it was created by YOUR god.
There are thousands of god beliefs and no evidence that any of them are
real.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the
old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. They refuse to consider the more logical and
scientific
process of evolution. If it was designed/created by some god, this god
has
to be even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic,
would
require that god would also have to have a creator. Who or what
created
god?
Just showing your ignorance of the argument again. Yes, the Creator
would
have to be more complex, and greater than the Universe. He would not
be
subject to the conditions of the Universe, so He would not have had to
have
a Creator. You know nothing of the subject, or of logic.
I know just as much about your god claims as you do and understand logic
even better.
If that were the case, then you would be able to present the premise of
your
argument without distorting what we believe. Something you have been
unable, and unwilling to do.
I have not distorted anything and you are the one that is totally incapable
of of supply OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE
EVIDENCE your god or any of the thousands of other gods actually exist.
You just keep dancing around the issue showing that you just do not have the
evidence.
..
There is NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE of the existence of your god
or any of the thousands of other gods claimed by various religions over
the
centuries.
Again, just none you are willing to look at objectively.
Still dodging the issue!
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is
proof
of god.
Yes, the complexity, and overall smooth running of the universe,
according
to physical laws, going from birth (of the Universe) to death is an
evidence
(NOT proof) of an intelligent designer. Just like a beautiful house
(far
less complex than the Universe) is evidence of the intelligence of it's
designer and builder.
The problems you mention next (which I snipped) only prove that there
is
something wrong...Not that there is no God. That "something wrong" is
the
point of the Bible, and His eventual resolution of that wrong.
The bibles are nothing but a nonsensical mixture of fiction, myth and
impossible fables.
they are not evidence of any gods.
Again, I never said they were. I said that The Bible accurately portrays
that mankind has a problem. Something you admit to.
Say what???
Again, not having the least idea of logic, or history, or what anyone else
says, you distort the argument. There is no intelligent debate with you,
just a constant attack against something you have no understanding of.
Can't provide the evidence eh! Still dodging an weaving!
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ike" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
05 Nov 2005 02:19:47 AM |
|
|
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
What universe? How can I observe a universe? Scientific method requires
replicable observations. You can look out the window and so can I. We will
see different things. Where is the universe? If you say all around, then all
around what... all around everything? Is there anything around what is all
around? That can't be proved or disproved since it is too general or too
self-referencing a statement. It is not a thing that can be observed. Or if
it is, where can I see it?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
05 Nov 2005 03:49:26 AM |
|
|
"Ike" <accordiondocxyzxyzxyz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7FUaf.5046$m81.2275@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
What universe? How can I observe a universe? Scientific method requires
replicable observations. You can look out the window and so can I. We will
see different things. Where is the universe? If you say all around, then
all around what... all around everything? Is there anything around what is
all around? That can't be proved or disproved since it is too general or
too self-referencing a statement. It is not a thing that can be observed.
Or if it is, where can I see it?
Yes, I can see only in one direction. I rely on what scientist tell me
which is FAITH !!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
05 Nov 2005 06:32:59 PM |
|
|
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0ZVaf.7591$wC.3594@dukeread06...
"Ike" <accordiondocxyzxyzxyz@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7FUaf.5046$m81.2275@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
What universe? How can I observe a universe? Scientific method requires
replicable observations. You can look out the window and so can I. We
will see different things. Where is the universe? If you say all around,
then all around what... all around everything? Is there anything around
what is all around? That can't be proved or disproved since it is too
general or too self-referencing a statement. It is not a thing that can
be observed. Or if it is, where can I see it?
Yes, I can see only in one direction. I rely on what scientist tell me
which is FAITH !!
Untrue. The point of science is to describe observations which can be
replicated. With the proper skills, you could see what we scientists see.
It's the opposite of "faith".
.
|
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN??? |
06 Nov 2005 12:25:02 AM |
|
|
Ike wrote:
"Carl Rooker" <rookerc@dnx.net> wrote in message
news:1131029388.882916@w9.dnx.net...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
What universe? How can I observe a universe? Scientific method requires
replicable observations. You can look out the window and so can I. We will
see different things. Where is the universe? If you say all around, then all
around what... all around everything? Is there anything around what is all
around?
===>It is simply by definition:
The Cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be. (Sagan). -- L.
.
|
|
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|
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
04 Nov 2005 12:49:58 AM |
|
|
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
===>What you have heard of "scientific theory" is far from "current".
Your ideas are from the last century. -- L.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl Rooker" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
04 Nov 2005 02:33:58 PM |
|
|
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436AB035.F8835BC@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always
was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
===>What you have heard of "scientific theory" is far from "current".
Your ideas are from the last century. -- L.
The last century was only 5 years ago. What I have stated is very current.
The point being that the Universe is not eternal.
God Bless
Carl
.
|
|
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
04 Nov 2005 07:37:35 PM |
|
|
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436AB035.F8835BC@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Carl Rooker wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2Y7af.47815$Pp1.37118@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Religious types claim that the universe would need a God creator and
that
God always was. It is more logical to conclude the Universe always
was.
There is physical objective verifiable evidence for the existence of
the
Universe. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the
existence of ANY Gods.
Well, for once you have part of this correct. We do believe that God is
eternal, and the universe is not.
You may think that it is logical to believe that the universe always
was,
but this goes against all current scientific theory.
===>What you have heard of "scientific theory" is far from "current".
Your ideas are from the last century. -- L.
The last century was only 5 years ago. What I have stated is very current.
The point being that the Universe is not eternal.
===>No thing is "eternal" in its momentary, ephemeral form.
It is the SUBSTANCE of all things that is eternal.
(This eternal "substance" was identified by Spinoza as
"Nature" or "God").
"Nothing" cannot turn into "something".
Modern cosmology (see Linde, Smolin, etc.) speaks of
multiple universes in a higher-level COSMOS or MULTIVERSE
(also known as the MEGAVERSE).
Thus, our "universe" is only one of those "universes".
E.g. a black hole in our universe could emerge as a
"Big Bang," starting another universe, etc. -- L.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
|
| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
04 Nov 2005 11:10:37 PM |
|
|
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436BB87F.694C1909@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
"Nothing" cannot turn into "something".
This is the reason that the big bang theory begins with a pinpoint.
Scientists refuse to believe that our universe came out of nothing, so this
is their "next to nothing" explaination. If this theory is true though,
'splain this:
According to the big bang theory, our universe expanded from a pinpoint and
eventually will reach full expansion then begin contracting and eventually
contract into a pinpoint again where it will expand from there into a new
universe. Alas, over decillions of years we are looking at a perpetual
motion of expansion and contraction.
Now then, the ten thousand dollar question:
When and how did this perpetual motion begin and where did all that mass
that makes up our universe come from?
It would defy basic scientific law to say it was always there because
everything must have a beginning. So where did it all come from?
Until you can explain this, I would open my mind up to the possibility of a
creator.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 02:15:26 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yTRaf.7573$wC.1223@dukeread06...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436BB87F.694C1909@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
"Nothing" cannot turn into "something".
This is the reason that the big bang theory begins with a pinpoint.
Scientists refuse to believe that our universe came out of nothing, so
this is their "next to nothing" explaination. If this theory is true
though, 'splain this:
According to the big bang theory, our universe expanded from a pinpoint
and eventually will reach full expansion then begin contracting and
eventually contract into a pinpoint again where it will expand from there
into a new universe. Alas, over decillions of years we are looking at a
perpetual motion of expansion and contraction.
Now then, the ten thousand dollar question:
When and how did this perpetual motion begin and where did all that mass
that makes up our universe come from?
It would defy basic scientific law to say it was always there because
everything must have a beginning. So where did it all come from?
Until you can explain this, I would open my mind up to the possibility of
a creator.
Until you explain where that creator came from - your logic is outrageously
flawed.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 02:48:01 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" <here'slooking@youkid.com> wrote in message
news:11mpfk374tn1o67@corp.supernews.com...
Until you explain where that creator came from - your logic is
outrageously flawed.
If you want to believe that, you go right ahead. Your dilemma is you think
you're going to somehow destroy my faith. You have so far failed, but
you're welcome to keep trying. The entertainment value is priceless.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 03:09:14 PM |
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:48:01 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ZenIsWhen" <here'slooking@youkid.com> wrote in message
news:11mpfk374tn1o67@corp.supernews.com...
Until you explain where that creator came from - your logic is
outrageously flawed.
If you want to believe that, you go right ahead. Your dilemma is you think
you're going to somehow destroy my faith. You have so far failed, but
you're welcome to keep trying. The entertainment value is priceless.
Why do you continue to lie, liar?
Nobody gives a flying ***** about your faith - just that you are
in-our-face dishonest.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 05:24:24 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:nmipm196usp4rb3h7gpsfq8050sv5ggk0k@4ax.com...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:48:01 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
Why do you continue to lie, liar?
Look up the difinition of "lie." You obviously don't know the meaning of
the word.
Nobody gives a flying ***** about your faith
You do. That's why you're vigorously trying to destroy it. But you have
thus far failed.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
06 Nov 2005 04:32:23 PM |
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:24:24 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:nmipm196usp4rb3h7gpsfq8050sv5ggk0k@4ax.com...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:48:01 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
Why do you continue to lie, liar?
Look up the difinition of "lie." You obviously don't know the meaning of
the word.
Yet another lie by the lyingf Christian. You lie below, twice. Once by
the snip of the rest of the sentence, and further below when you lie
about trying to destroy it.
Nobody gives a flying ***** about your faith
[dishonest snip] AS LONG AS YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
You do. That's why you're vigorously trying to destroy it. But you have
thus far failed.
Another lie on your part because nobody is trying to destroy it,let
alone vigorously.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 01:27:31 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yTRaf.7573$wC.1223@dukeread06...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:436BB87F.694C1909@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
"Nothing" cannot turn into "something".
This is the reason that the big bang theory begins with a pinpoint.
Scientists refuse to believe that our universe came out of nothing, so
this is their "next to nothing" explaination. If this theory is true
though, 'splain this:
According to the big bang theory, our universe expanded from a pinpoint
and eventually will reach full expansion then begin contracting and
eventually contract into a pinpoint again where it will expand from there
into a new universe. Alas, over decillions of years we are looking at a
perpetual motion of expansion and contraction.
Now then, the ten thousand dollar question:
When and how did this perpetual motion begin and where did all that mass
that makes up our universe come from?
It would defy basic scientific law to say it was always there because
everything must have a beginning. So where did it all come from?
Then how did god begin? Oh, in his case he always was and always will be!
Everything must have a beginning is only in your limited brain power. The
Universe could have always been.
The present guess as to the age of the Universe is 14 BILLION YEARS and we
don't know that it did not
expand from a ball of matter that had already existed. In relation to mans
life span and time of
existence, this is essentially for ever.
Until you can explain this, I would open my mind up to the possibility of
a creator.
When was your creator created?
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 04:01:09 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4STaf.265$%k.215@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Then how did god begin? Oh, in his case he always was and always will be!
That is correct. The Bible says that God is the Alpha and the Omega.
Everything must have a beginning is only in your limited brain power. The
Universe could have always been.
That goes against basic scientific law. There has to be a beginning to
everything according to science.
The present guess as to the age of the Universe is 14 BILLION YEARS
Thankyou for admitting that this is a guess.
and we don't know that it did not
expand from a ball of matter that had already existed.
Yes, you do not know. Thankyou for admitting this.
When was your creator created?
Never. God always was. This is one thing that blows the human mind. This
is why so many people will not believe this because they cannot perceive
this and basic scientific law states that if it cannot be seen, felt or
measured, then it's not there.
Thankyou for clarifying this.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 04:15:56 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bill" wrote
: > When was your creator created?
:
: Never. God always was.
Do you have objective evidence to support this assertion?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
05 Nov 2005 02:44:15 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:l7-dnZHmGveRr_HenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bill" wrote
: > When was your creator created?
:
: Never. God always was.
Do you have objective evidence to support this assertion?
I don't need it.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
06 Nov 2005 02:14:32 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ty3bf.8316$wC.3019@dukeread06...
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:l7-dnZHmGveRr_HenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bill" wrote
: > When was your creator created?
:
: Never. God always was.
Do you have objective evidence to support this assertion?
I don't need it.
Oh? So you're "god" and you word is all that's necessary?
True, though, you also don't need to provide evidence that your brain has
only one working cell .. you just have to state it.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN???. |
06 Nov 2005 02:18:23 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" <here'slooking@youkid.com> wrote in message
news:11ms3u88dqs3763@corp.supernews.com...
Do you have objective evidence to support this assertion?
I don't need it.
Oh? So you're "god" and you word is all that's necessary?
Huh?
True, though, you also don't need to provide evidence that your brain has
only one working cell .. you just have to state it.
If my brain had only one working cell, I would not be able to state
anything.
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