On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:14:24 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <63c5r1hcq0o0gvu7qkti3si1oso76ragvq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:32:34 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <ajm2r1hk5rq9dsc1bqlm3vam8hce5kmjcr@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 21:49:31 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <1b40r111pk5vnigdd134rmgvihd8a15qi0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

[]

Sadly, I agree. In the name of avoiding controversy, the school
boards
and and teachers will play it safe and either not teach
evolution,
or
as
you say teach some watered down version. The schools may avoid
trouble,
but the kids and education will suffer for it.

Creationist watchers have been noting this tendency
for years now.

And when other countries surpass us in science, I hope that no
one
will
be surprised.

Other countries have already done so in leaps and bounds. The
fundies
will be surprised, thinking isn't their strong suit, and then
wail
and
gnash their teeth and blame everyone but themselves.

They'll blame the Libruls as usual, or in the case of the current
crop
blame Clinton, as they do for everything else.

I haven't heard them blame Billy Boy for the NSA spying or Shrub's
hitting the bottle and snorting again.

Maybe they'll blame those on Hillary.

Chairman Mao gets the blame for Stalin.......

Stalin gets blamed for Lenin.

...while wearing a cheerleader out fit and yelling
Mao Mao Mao.....

For which his teacher gave him bad Marx.

...while lenin about hurling at the site...

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:42:32 GMT, in alt.atheism
Jim07D5 <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in
<dd8jq1p8k2148jfe2p4ch14q9p1cnv1lkp@4ax.com>:

wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> said:

johac wrote:

In article <qndgq1h4maqt7b0nnsrh95grocoratl3kk@4ax.com>,
Jim07D5 <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote:

"Kitzmiller Decision: Plaintiffs Prevail
December 20, 2005

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area
School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that “intelligent design” is not science. The
DASD ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon
test, and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution."

See:
http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/
--- Jim07D5

The Judge got it right. The reaction of the Religious right should
be very interesting.

They will, as usual, distort what has happened, mewl
lots of lies and slander everybody in sight.

What is going to be interesting is, how this case
is used in other courts, when ID is challenged.
I suspect eventually Kansas will be challenged.

I hope we find out how much this case will cost the Dover school
district in $$$ (they are liable for the court costs and plaintiff's
legal fees). Any school board contemplating a similar ID instruction
should pay heed to the potential costs.

Sadly, the board that made this mess was kicked out and the taxpayers
who had the sense to kick them out are stuck paying for the mess.

nafc@snet.net wrote:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Kitzmiller Decision: Plaintiffs Prevail
December 20, 2005

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area
School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that "intelligent design" is not science. The DASD
ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon test,
and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution."

See:
http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/
--- Jim07D5

And the whining begins.
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3107&program=News&callingPage=discoMainPage

I just knew the term 'activist judge' would be used.

So did Judge Jones, he specifically countered it in his conclusion

On 20 Dec 2005 11:08:36 -0800, in alt.atheism
nafc@snet.net wrote in
<1135105716.474615.115690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Kitzmiller Decision: Plaintiffs Prevail
December 20, 2005

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area
School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that "intelligent design" is not science. The DASD
ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon test,
and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution."

See:
http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/
--- Jim07D5

And the whining begins.
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3107&program=News&callingPage=discoMainPage

I just knew the term 'activist judge' would be used.

nafc

The poor babies thought that their lies wouldn't be noticed. Now,
they're throwing a tantrum.

nafc@snet.net said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Kitzmiller Decision: Plaintiffs Prevail
December 20, 2005

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area
School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that "intelligent design" is not science. The DASD
ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon test,
and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution."

See:
http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/
--- Jim07D5

In this article:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/consumer_news/13448943.htm
is this piece:

"We find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a
pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in
the public school classroom," he wrote in his 139-page opinion.

nafc

Here's my favorite quote of Judge Jones:

"It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and
proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and
again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind
the ID Policy."

<...>

nafc@snet.net said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Kitzmiller Decision: Plaintiffs Prevail
December 20, 2005

The much-awaited decision in the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area
School District is now available.

The 139 page document finds for the plaintiffs.

Judge Jones finds that "intelligent design" is not science. The DASD
ID policy violates both purpose and effect prongs of the Lemon test,
and also violates the Pennsylvania constitution."

See:
http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/
--- Jim07D5

In this article:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/consumer_news/13448943.htm
is this piece:

"We find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a
pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in
the public school classroom," he wrote in his 139-page opinion.

nafc

Here's my favorite quote of Judge Jones:

"It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and
proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and
again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind
the ID Policy."

<...>

"s/John E. Jones III
John E. Jones III
United States District Judge"