| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eris" |
| Date: |
08 Dec 2004 05:53:58 PM |
| Object: |
Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
I laughingly said that none of the employees at the Chinese buffet
spoke English.
Joe went ballistic. They are all here illegally, and they ship them
around the country, never staying in one place for more then a few
months. Free labor. And they have drivers licenses. Yes it took me
four years to learn enough English in the sixties to get a license,
but now they have the written license test in every language. So these
people have drivers license, they can use as identification, they can
use this to buy tickets on an airplane and board the air plane with it
as identification.
Joe said he is periodically audited by the labor department and all of
his employees are legal. He has tried to get the labor department to
investigate the Chinese buffets but they say they will not as that is
an immigration problem.
Interesting
.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
08 Dec 2004 08:17:00 PM |
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"Eris" <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:863fr0t9b3u1h9palpq2gkoem9n2ge9em0@4ax.com...
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Here's a link to an interesting discussion on the subject. I found it by
googling on "cantonese vs mandarin".
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=12346&t=12346
A sample,
----
Tone-wise, Cantonese is very hard to speak "correctly". To distinguish tones
3 and 5 and 4 and 6 you have to be very careful about the way you say
things. If you believe in the seven tone system (with the high falling
tone), then tones 1 and 7 would be hard to distinguish too. Mandarin has 4
main tones with an extra "soft" tone. While I do not really recognise this
tone often in my speech, there are cases when I agree it definitely exists.
As far as getting around with the language goes, Cantonese is far easier for
me. The larger variety of sounds leads to fewer chances of ambiguity. Even
if your tones aren't perfect, if they are close enough, you will generally
get your message across in Cantonese (e.g. tone 4/6 the same, tone 3/5 the
same, as long as you speak fast enough). I also feel that Cantonese starts
off with a simpler word base than Mandarin. I am not really sure how to
explain this, but objects are named in more "common" language than the
"proper" terms for them in standard Chinese (which Mandarin would use).
Quite often, Cantonese slang sounds are unique, which makes them easier to
learn. However, while I have a bias towards the Cantonese spoken language, I
do most of my character recognition/learning in Mandarin.
----
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
09 Dec 2004 08:06:13 AM |
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My son wants to learn to speak Chinese.
Studying a language by book and tape is usually
an inadequate method. If feasible, have your son hang
out with Chinese people in situations where little
English will be spoken.
.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
09 Dec 2004 09:22:53 AM |
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Eris wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe
said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he
says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the
Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Find out which one sounds coolest when yoiu swear in it. Then go with
that one.
Seriously, ask "why" the chineese in the US speak Cantonese. If
Cantonese is prevelant wherever you son plans to go (Hong Kong, Taiwan,
USA) then he should study that, shouldn't he.
.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
12 Dec 2004 08:12:20 PM |
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On 9 Dec 2004 07:22:53 -0800, "jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe
said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he
says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the
Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Find out which one sounds coolest when yoiu swear in it. Then go with
that one.
Seriously, ask "why" the chineese in the US speak Cantonese. If
Cantonese is prevelant wherever you son plans to go (Hong Kong, Taiwan,
USA) then he should study that, shouldn't he.
Imagine Europe where the Roman Empire is still around. People in parts
of the Empire all speak some version of the local dialect (Portugese,
Italian) but are expected to speak and understand the official
national dialect (Latin).
That's pretty much the case in China and the surrounding countries
with large Chinese population (including Malaysia, Thailand, and
Singapore). The regional dialect in Hong Kong is Cantonese, the
regional dialect in Taiwan is Taiwanese (it's called MinNanHua by the
natives), but at least in Taiwan, all formal education is taught in
Mandarin. I'm pretty sure that's the case elsewhere.
For a while Hong Kong dominated the cultual landsacpe of non-PRC
Chinese world. You watch the Jackie Chan movies and other martial arts
movies and you pick up bits and pieces of Cantonese. If you speak any
Chinese dialect, you can more or less understand other dialects, even
if you can;t speak it.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1285 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Ian" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
09 Dec 2004 09:11:30 AM |
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Eris wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Actually, yes.
There aren't that many places in China where Cantonese is spoken. Some
southern parts of China, and Hong Kong, speak Cantonese, and there are
other dialects in different parts of the country, but Mandarin will get
you the farthest as no matter where you go you, someone will probably be
able to speak it. There's also the fact that Cantonese is a ******* to
learn as there are 7 tones as opposed to the 4 in Mandarin. I took
Mandarin all through college and spent some time in Beijing and *still*
couldn't really get a hang of them. (and I made some pretty funny
slipups accidentally as a result, but that's another story) Also there's
no real written language for Cantonese. It's kind of difficult to
explain, but Cantonese is pretty much entirely a spoken dialect.
Mandarin is written the same way it's spoken, but Cantonese is actually
"written" in Mandarin more or less. As an example, I have a
second-generation friend that speaks Cantonese with his family but can't
understand Cantonese songs at all, because the songs are sung in
"written" Cantonese.
One of the biggest reasons you see a lot of Cantonese-speaking Chinese
in the US is that a lot of people jumped ship from Hong Kong before it
went back to PRC control in 1997. But in the Chinatowns I've been in
(New York, Philadelphia, and Boston) I've heard both being used fairly
frequently. The clerks at the grocery store I visit speak both for
example. If the frequency with which I hear Mandarin being spoken
nowadays is any indication, there number of Mandarin speakers in the US
is also increasing.
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| User: "Beth" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
08 Dec 2004 06:58:15 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:53:58 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Maybe 'cause, since it's the national language, they'll know it even
if they don't usually speak it. My understanding is that most Chinese
people can speak multiple dialects. My boyfriend's mother speaks
Mandarin, Cantonese and Hakka, and I think there may be another one or
two dialects in there. His dad speaks at least Mandarin and Cantonese.
My boyfriend speaks Cantonese, Hakka and knows Mandarin words, tho
can't really speak it. He says this isn't unusual for anyone born in
China (and even those who weren't, but whose parents/grandparents
were, like my bf). So if your son picks a major dialect, like
Cantonese or Mandarin, he'll probably find someone who speaks it
wherever he goes.
Mind you, this is just hearsay from one person, so YMMV.
--
Beth #859
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
08 Dec 2004 07:29:56 PM |
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On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:58:15 +1100, Beth <inky@spamless.net> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:53:58 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Maybe 'cause, since it's the national language, they'll know it even
if they don't usually speak it. My understanding is that most Chinese
people can speak multiple dialects. My boyfriend's mother speaks
Mandarin, Cantonese and Hakka, and I think there may be another one or
two dialects in there. His dad speaks at least Mandarin and Cantonese.
My boyfriend speaks Cantonese, Hakka and knows Mandarin words, tho
can't really speak it. He says this isn't unusual for anyone born in
China (and even those who weren't, but whose parents/grandparents
were, like my bf). So if your son picks a major dialect, like
Cantonese or Mandarin, he'll probably find someone who speaks it
wherever he goes.
Mind you, this is just hearsay from one person, so YMMV.
Thanks Beth, I bought the Pimsleur Mandarin.
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| User: "Beth" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
12 Dec 2004 07:12:26 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:29:56 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
Thanks Beth, I bought the Pimsleur Mandarin.
Oh, cool. Let us know how he goes with it. I've seen that one around
in my own search for Chinese language tapes, and have wondered how it
is. IIRC, it looked like the best of the bunch.
--
Beth #859
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
12 Dec 2004 07:57:22 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:12:26 +1100, Beth <inky@spamless.net> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:29:56 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
Thanks Beth, I bought the Pimsleur Mandarin.
Oh, cool. Let us know how he goes with it. I've seen that one around
in my own search for Chinese language tapes, and have wondered how it
is. IIRC, it looked like the best of the bunch.
I am doing the German Pimsleur right now. It is better than all of the
other ones I tried.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting rant from Chinese Resturaunt owner |
12 Dec 2004 07:58:43 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:53:58 -0500, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net>
wrote:
My son wants to learn to speak Chinese. There are two types of
language tapes available. Cantonese and Mandarin. So I went over to
the House of Chan, the oldest Chinese restaurant in town. Joe Chan
greeted me at the door and I asked him which language to buy. Joe said
everyone in China today speaks Mandarin the national language, he says
everyone in the U.S. speaks Cantonese. So Joe said to buy the Mandarin
tapes.
Does this make sense?
Yes, because Catonese speakers, like other local Chinese dialects, are
more likely to also understand Mandarin as it is taught from the top
down.
If you want to learn Chinese for the sake of conversing with Cantonese
speakers, then you should go with Cantonese tapes. but then you would
have trouble communicating with people of differencet dialects-
Taiwanese, Shanghai, etc. all of whom sizable Chinese popluations who
understand the Mandarin dialect.
I laughingly said that none of the employees at the Chinese buffet
spoke English.
Joe went ballistic. They are all here illegally, and they ship them
around the country, never staying in one place for more then a few
months. Free labor. And they have drivers licenses. Yes it took me
four years to learn enough English in the sixties to get a license,
but now they have the written license test in every language. So these
people have drivers license, they can use as identification, they can
use this to buy tickets on an airplane and board the air plane with it
as identification.
Joe said he is periodically audited by the labor department and all of
his employees are legal. He has tried to get the labor department to
investigate the Chinese buffets but they say they will not as that is
an immigration problem.
Interesting
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1285 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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