Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:09:29 PM
Object: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html
Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer
While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.
Apparently ISU professors who are horrified by the supposed mixing of
metaphysics and scholarship on the part of ID proponents have no
qualms about supporting Avalos's explicit anti-religious propaganda,
including his effort to equate the Bible with Hitler's Mein Kampf (for
more on Avalos's view of the Bible, see below). It is worth pointing
out that ISU issued a press release a few years ago boasting about
Avalos's appointment as the executive director of a group affiliated
with the Council for Secular Humanism that seeks to debunk religion.
Avalos's promotion to full professor comes just in time for the
publication of his new book on the Bible later this month. According
to the publisher's description, Avalos argues in the book
that our world is best served by leaving the Bible as a relic of an
ancient civilization instead of the "living" document most religionist
scholars believe it should be. He urges his colleagues to concentrate
on educating the broader society to recognize the irrelevance and even
violent effects of the Bible in modern life.
Just how extreme Avalos's view of the Bible is can be seen in his
previous book, Fighting Words: The Origins of Religious Violence
(2005), in which he repeatedly equates the Bible with Hitler's Mein
Kampf. Indeed, in a section of the book titled "Scripture: A Zero-
Tolerance Argument," Avalos actually suggests that the Bible is worse
than Mein Kampf:
In fact, Mein Kampf does not contain a single explicit command for
genocide equivalent to those found in the Hebrew Bible... Thus, if all
of Mein Kampf is to be rejected simply for its implied genocidal
policies, we should certainly reject all of the Bible for some of its
explicit and blatant genocidal policies. [p. 363]
At other points, Avalos appears to blame Jewish people for Hitler's
attempt to exterminate them, locating the origins of the Holocaust in
what he calls "Hebrew racism." Consider the following passages:
"The purpose here is to show that the Nazi policy of genocide was
based on premises quite similar to those in the Hebrew Bible." [p.
316]
"the Nazi Holocaust represents the synthesis of attitudes found in
both the New Testament and the Hebrew scriptures." [p. 318]
"[Scholars Katz and Wolpoff] fail to see the parallels between certain
practices promulgated in the Hebrew Bible itself. Indeed, the supreme
irony of the Holocaust is that the genocidal policies first
systematically enunciated in the Hebrew scriptures were reversed by
the Nazis. Nazi ideology simply had better technology to do what
biblical authors had said they would do to their enemies." [pp.
318-319]
"Hitler saw himself as trying to counteract Hebrew racism, which he
saw as the main counterpart and enemy of the German race." [p. 319]
As if these statements were not enough, Prof. Avalos has equated
creationism with Nazism, denounced religion-inspired acts of love, and
even suggested that we "eliminate religion from human life
altogether":
"Nazi ideology is similar to creationist ideology, which believes that
scientific findings support the biblical stories of Creation and the
Flood." [p. 318]
"any act of love based on religion is immoral." [p. 369]
"Mother Teresa... advocated policies that helped to generate the very
pool of poor people she was attempting to help. Religious beliefs are
largely responsible for arguments against contraception, which helps
to perpetuate poverty and conflicts over scarce resources. So in the
end, did Mother Teresa help more people than were harmed by her
religious belief?" [p. 370]
"until the Abrahamic religions overthrow the master-slave model in
which they were born, we see little progress to be made. Since all
religious beliefs are ultimately unverifiable, the greatest scarce
resource of all is verifiability. And one way to remedy or minimize
unverifiability in any decision-making process, especially that
leading to violence, is to eliminate religion from human life
altogether." [p. 371, emphasis added]
Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.
.

User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 09:32:35 PM
In article <1186877369.445298.90840@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote:

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer


Good for them!
.

User: "Lorentz"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 08:26:26 PM
On Aug 11, 8:09 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer

Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.

I know a Creationist manager, in a government agency no less, who
equates the Bible with Mein Kampf. Does he count?
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 11:27:42 PM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:26:26 -0700, Lorentz <drosen0000@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Aug 11, 8:09 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer


Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.


I know a Creationist manager, in a government agency no less, who
equates the Bible with Mein Kampf. Does he count?

No, he's not a Troo Christshun.
.


User: "Darwin123"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 02:35:12 AM
On Aug 11, 8:09 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer

While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.

Now was this atheist professor comparing the two in a good way or
a bad way? Because I know of people who really have made that
comparison in a really positive way. It was Hitler himself who made a
comparison, by saying that he was doing the "work of the Lord." Did
the professor actually equate the two, or did he merely quote the
reference?
There seem to be some rather convoluted personalities at this
university. How did a "religious studies professor" become an
"outspoken atheist?" Also, "gifted ID astronomer" is almost an
oxymoron. Or maybe it is a tautology.
Fire them both! Fire them all! Every single professor there!
Bulldoze the university and put up a Seven Flags - Water World! Curse
all their descendants from now till the sun turns into a red giant!
Almost Biblical, wouldn't you say?
.
User: "*Anarcissie*"

Title: Now The Good News: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 07:36:53 AM
On Aug 12, 3:35 am, Darwin123 <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 11, 8:09 pm, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer


While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.


Now was this atheist professor comparing the two in a good way or
a bad way? Because I know of people who really have made that
comparison in a really positive way. It was Hitler himself who made a
comparison, by saying that he was doing the "work of the Lord." Did
the professor actually equate the two, or did he merely quote the
reference?

No use asking questions -- Sound of Troll is a spammer.

There seem to be some rather convoluted personalities at this
university. How did a "religious studies professor" become an
"outspoken atheist?" Also, "gifted ID astronomer" is almost an
oxymoron. Or maybe it is a tautology.

Surely studying religion would be a qucik route to
atheism.

Fire them both! Fire them all! Every single professor there!
Bulldoze the university and put up a Seven Flags - Water World! Curse
all their descendants from now till the sun turns into a red giant!
Almost Biblical, wouldn't you say?

.


User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 06:32:57 AM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:09:29 -0700, Sound of Trumpet
<soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote:

In fact, Mein Kampf does not contain a single explicit command for
genocide equivalent to those found in the Hebrew Bible... Thus, if all
of Mein Kampf is to be rejected simply for its implied genocidal
policies, we should certainly reject all of the Bible for some of its
explicit and blatant genocidal policies. [p. 363]

In what way is he wrong?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.

User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 05:42:29 PM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:09:29 -0700, Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html



Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer



While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.

Apparently ISU professors who are horrified by the supposed mixing of
metaphysics and scholarship on the part of ID proponents have no
qualms about supporting Avalos's explicit anti-religious propaganda,
including his effort to equate the Bible with Hitler's Mein Kampf (for
more on Avalos's view of the Bible, see below). It is worth pointing
out that ISU issued a press release a few years ago boasting about
Avalos's appointment as the executive director of a group affiliated
with the Council for Secular Humanism that seeks to debunk religion.

Avalos's promotion to full professor comes just in time for the
publication of his new book on the Bible later this month. According
to the publisher's description, Avalos argues in the book

that our world is best served by leaving the Bible as a relic of an
ancient civilization instead of the "living" document most religionist
scholars believe it should be. He urges his colleagues to concentrate
on educating the broader society to recognize the irrelevance and even
violent effects of the Bible in modern life.
Just how extreme Avalos's view of the Bible is can be seen in his
previous book, Fighting Words: The Origins of Religious Violence
(2005), in which he repeatedly equates the Bible with Hitler's Mein
Kampf. Indeed, in a section of the book titled "Scripture: A Zero-
Tolerance Argument," Avalos actually suggests that the Bible is worse
than Mein Kampf:

In fact, Mein Kampf does not contain a single explicit command for
genocide equivalent to those found in the Hebrew Bible... Thus, if all
of Mein Kampf is to be rejected simply for its implied genocidal
policies, we should certainly reject all of the Bible for some of its
explicit and blatant genocidal policies. [p. 363]
At other points, Avalos appears to blame Jewish people for Hitler's
attempt to exterminate them, locating the origins of the Holocaust in
what he calls "Hebrew racism." Consider the following passages:


"The purpose here is to show that the Nazi policy of genocide was
based on premises quite similar to those in the Hebrew Bible." [p.
316]

"the Nazi Holocaust represents the synthesis of attitudes found in
both the New Testament and the Hebrew scriptures." [p. 318]

"[Scholars Katz and Wolpoff] fail to see the parallels between certain
practices promulgated in the Hebrew Bible itself. Indeed, the supreme
irony of the Holocaust is that the genocidal policies first
systematically enunciated in the Hebrew scriptures were reversed by
the Nazis. Nazi ideology simply had better technology to do what
biblical authors had said they would do to their enemies." [pp.
318-319]

"Hitler saw himself as trying to counteract Hebrew racism, which he
saw as the main counterpart and enemy of the German race." [p. 319]


As if these statements were not enough, Prof. Avalos has equated
creationism with Nazism, denounced religion-inspired acts of love, and
even suggested that we "eliminate religion from human life
altogether":

"Nazi ideology is similar to creationist ideology, which believes that
scientific findings support the biblical stories of Creation and the
Flood." [p. 318]

"any act of love based on religion is immoral." [p. 369]

"Mother Teresa... advocated policies that helped to generate the very
pool of poor people she was attempting to help. Religious beliefs are
largely responsible for arguments against contraception, which helps
to perpetuate poverty and conflicts over scarce resources. So in the
end, did Mother Teresa help more people than were harmed by her
religious belief?" [p. 370]

"until the Abrahamic religions overthrow the master-slave model in
which they were born, we see little progress to be made. Since all
religious beliefs are ultimately unverifiable, the greatest scarce
resource of all is verifiability. And one way to remedy or minimize
unverifiability in any decision-making process, especially that
leading to violence, is to eliminate religion from human life
altogether." [p. 371, emphasis added]


Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.

The simple fact is that the Old Testament DOES advocate genocide. Read it
sometime, and you'll see. Ever hear of the Midianites? How about
killing all the first born of Egypt? Even if you disagree with Avalos's
conclusions, decisions about granting tenure are based on scholarship, not
attitudes. Like it or not, Intelligent Design is based on poor scholarship
through and through.
--
MarkA
(insert clever sig line here)
.

User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 05:31:32 PM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:09:29 -0700, Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html



Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer



While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.

You are surprised that an atheist has stronger academic credentials than
an ID advocate? If Gonzales wants recognition, he should go work for the
Discovery Institute.
--
MarkA
(insert clever sig line here)
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 11:26:16 PM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:31:32 -0400, MarkA <joe@nowhere.com> wrote:

You are surprised that an atheist has stronger academic credentials than
an ID advocate? If Gonzales wants recognition, he should go work for the
Discovery Institute.

If he wants a MoD (Doctor of moronicity).
.


User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 09:57:40 PM
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html
Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
That's actually good news for all devout believers in God.
Everything that the Anti-Christian Atheists continue doing
against Non-Atheists, especially against Judeo-Christians,
is just another nail in their collective coffin. Christians
have a long memory, and when the day comes, everything that
the Anti-Christian Atheists ever said or did in public will
come back to haunt them, not unlike how the heinous crimes
of NAZI war criminals came back to haunt them in the wake
of World War II; and not only in the this world, but also
in the world to be about, which for the God-haters is not
a pleasant place to be, not a pleasant place at all...
For this reason, I was rather disappointed to hear that the
recent attempts to criminalize Intelligent Design in Europe
had been temporarily derailed. I hope the Atheists get that
back on track and eventually outlaw Christianity altogether,
as I hope happens in this Anti-Christian country of America.
Everything the Atheists succeed in doing against Christianity
is good for Christians, because it'll eventually come back to
haunt them--when the time comes. And that time will come, and
a *Hell* of lot sooner than the Anti-Christian Atheists think!
Reckoning day approaches, Atheists. And, just like the Bible
says, when the time comes, no one will be there to help you.
Nihil Condolences,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRr519JljD7YrHM/nEQLxdQCgh6LAvsf9s83hjBx0QtHCPx1xKBMAoKiZ
AlSNP0t3y6wtdMtcl7E2XA9O
=Jahu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
.
User: "Geoff"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 09:45:30 AM
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com>
wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html
Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

That's actually good news for all devout believers in God.
Everything that the Anti-Christian Atheists continue doing
against Non-Atheists, especially against Judeo-Christians,
is just another nail in their collective coffin. Christians
have a long memory, and when the day comes, everything that
the Anti-Christian Atheists ever said or did in public will
come back to haunt them, not unlike how the heinous crimes
of NAZI war criminals came back to haunt them in the wake
of World War II; and not only in the this world, but also
in the world to be about, which for the God-haters is not
a pleasant place to be, not a pleasant place at all...

Feel the love? No. It feels more like a witch burning.
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 11:45:32 AM
In article <hKWdnUtHha6WgCLbnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:

Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com>
wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html
Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

That's actually good news for all devout believers in God.
Everything that the Anti-Christian Atheists continue doing
against Non-Atheists, especially against Judeo-Christians,
is just another nail in their collective coffin. Christians
have a long memory, and when the day comes, everything that
the Anti-Christian Atheists ever said or did in public will
come back to haunt them, not unlike how the heinous crimes
of NAZI war criminals came back to haunt them in the wake
of World War II; and not only in the this world, but also
in the world to be about, which for the God-haters is not
a pleasant place to be, not a pleasant place at all...


Feel the love? No. It feels more like a witch burning.

The thing that pisses off those unchristian Christians is not that
anyone hates their notion of a god, but that so many of us simply don't
care about what they claim.
.


User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 09:26:52 AM
On 12 Aug 2007 04:57:40 +0200, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:

Reckoning day approaches, Atheists. And, just like the Bible
says, when the time comes, no one will be there to help you.

Speaking of the Day of Reckoning, how do you reconcile your practice
of Astrology with the Bible's explicit prohibition of it?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "brique"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 01:06:24 PM
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:806ub3dfnqnq3oep3icqkikg7cj5tqn702@4ax.com...

On 12 Aug 2007 04:57:40 +0200, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonymous@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:


Reckoning day approaches, Atheists. And, just like the Bible
says, when the time comes, no one will be there to help you.


Speaking of the Day of Reckoning, how do you reconcile your practice
of Astrology with the Bible's explicit prohibition of it?

The poster is rather confused in general.
This is quite a normal state for his ilk.
--


"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"

.


User: ""

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 13 Aug 2007 01:13:07 AM
On Aug 12, 10:57 am, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonym...@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> wrote:>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

That's actually good news for all devout believers in God.
Everything that the Anti-Christian Atheists continue doing
against Non-Atheists, especially against Judeo-Christians,
is just another nail in their collective coffin. Christians
have a long memory, and when the day comes, everything that
the Anti-Christian Atheists ever said or did in public will
come back to haunt them, not unlike how the heinous crimes
of NAZI war criminals came back to haunt them in the wake
of World War II; and not only in the this world, but also
in the world to be about, which for the God-haters is not
a pleasant place to be, not a pleasant place at all...

For this reason, I was rather disappointed to hear that the
recent attempts to criminalize Intelligent Design in Europe
had been temporarily derailed. I hope the Atheists get that
back on track and eventually outlaw Christianity altogether,
as I hope happens in this Anti-Christian country of America.

Everything the Atheists succeed in doing against Christianity
is good for Christians, because it'll eventually come back to
haunt them--when the time comes. And that time will come, and
a *Hell* of lot sooner than the Anti-Christian Atheists think!

Reckoning day approaches, Atheists. And, just like the Bible
says, when the time comes, no one will be there to help you.

Nihil Condolences,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRr519JljD7YrHM/nEQLxdQCgh6LAvsf9s83hjBx0QtHCPx1xKBMAoKiZ
AlSNP0t3y6wtdMtcl7E2XA9O
=Jahu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

What an ***** you really is....!
You think by threatening your religion will get better?
And you never knew that your stupid scripture advocate bloodshed and
genocide?
You are just a very naive idiot who does not know anything, period.
This does show that you as the representative of modern people get
easily conned by ancient bullshitter. And this just also show your
brain capability.
Yap
.


User: "Doc Smartass"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 03:44:24 PM
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote in
news:1186877369.445298.90840@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Subject: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With
Mein Kampf

Your boy Chimp already has camps around the world, Herr Trumpet. Better
hope you're christian enough when your turn comes.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Doc Smartass"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 12 Aug 2007 04:52:43 PM
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote in
news:1186877369.445298.90840@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor...While Denying Tenure to ID
Astronomer

An "ID astronomer" is just an idiot who doesn't understand astronomy.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.
--Edward R. Murrow
.

User: "Y UltraMan Y"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 11 Aug 2007 10:38:20 PM
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html



Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer



While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.

Apparently ISU professors who are horrified by the supposed mixing of
metaphysics and scholarship on the part of ID proponents have no
qualms about supporting Avalos's explicit anti-religious propaganda,
including his effort to equate the Bible with Hitler's Mein Kampf (for
more on Avalos's view of the Bible, see below). It is worth pointing
out that ISU issued a press release a few years ago boasting about
Avalos's appointment as the executive director of a group affiliated
with the Council for Secular Humanism that seeks to debunk religion.

Avalos's promotion to full professor comes just in time for the
publication of his new book on the Bible later this month. According
to the publisher's description, Avalos argues in the book

that our world is best served by leaving the Bible as a relic of an
ancient civilization instead of the "living" document most religionist
scholars believe it should be. He urges his colleagues to concentrate
on educating the broader society to recognize the irrelevance and even
violent effects of the Bible in modern life.
Just how extreme Avalos's view of the Bible is can be seen in his
previous book, Fighting Words: The Origins of Religious Violence
(2005), in which he repeatedly equates the Bible with Hitler's Mein
Kampf. Indeed, in a section of the book titled "Scripture: A Zero-
Tolerance Argument," Avalos actually suggests that the Bible is worse
than Mein Kampf:

In fact, Mein Kampf does not contain a single explicit command for
genocide equivalent to those found in the Hebrew Bible... Thus, if all
of Mein Kampf is to be rejected simply for its implied genocidal
policies, we should certainly reject all of the Bible for some of its
explicit and blatant genocidal policies. [p. 363]
At other points, Avalos appears to blame Jewish people for Hitler's
attempt to exterminate them, locating the origins of the Holocaust in
what he calls "Hebrew racism." Consider the following passages:


"The purpose here is to show that the Nazi policy of genocide was
based on premises quite similar to those in the Hebrew Bible." [p.
316]

"the Nazi Holocaust represents the synthesis of attitudes found in
both the New Testament and the Hebrew scriptures." [p. 318]

"[Scholars Katz and Wolpoff] fail to see the parallels between certain
practices promulgated in the Hebrew Bible itself. Indeed, the supreme
irony of the Holocaust is that the genocidal policies first
systematically enunciated in the Hebrew scriptures were reversed by
the Nazis. Nazi ideology simply had better technology to do what
biblical authors had said they would do to their enemies." [pp.
318-319]

"Hitler saw himself as trying to counteract Hebrew racism, which he
saw as the main counterpart and enemy of the German race." [p. 319]


As if these statements were not enough, Prof. Avalos has equated
creationism with Nazism, denounced religion-inspired acts of love, and
even suggested that we "eliminate religion from human life
altogether":

"Nazi ideology is similar to creationist ideology, which believes that
scientific findings support the biblical stories of Creation and the
Flood." [p. 318]

"any act of love based on religion is immoral." [p. 369]

"Mother Teresa... advocated policies that helped to generate the very
pool of poor people she was attempting to help. Religious beliefs are
largely responsible for arguments against contraception, which helps
to perpetuate poverty and conflicts over scarce resources. So in the
end, did Mother Teresa help more people than were harmed by her
religious belief?" [p. 370]

"until the Abrahamic religions overthrow the master-slave model in
which they were born, we see little progress to be made. Since all
religious beliefs are ultimately unverifiable, the greatest scarce
resource of all is verifiability. And one way to remedy or minimize
unverifiability in any decision-making process, especially that
leading to violence, is to eliminate religion from human life
altogether." [p. 371, emphasis added]


Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.

.
User: "Robert Miller"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 18 Aug 2007 11:40:52 AM
Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.
In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.
That most deaths occured due to Typhus, Typhoid, and Collera.
There were also a number of Jewish Trustee's in the camps who
were socialist and communists who were directly responcible for
seeing that their friends were fed and other Jews starved to death.
Very little mention of the Millions of Christians murdered by the
Bolshivick party in Leninist / Stalinist Russia
Many blame the Jews as they made up the majority of the Party,
but I do not. I blame the athiests who made up the whole of the
Bolshivick Party. People who held themselves up above God and
hated the concept that they would eventually be judged for their
actions. Basicly they simply Hate "GOD"
Which is interesting because throughout the Bible God makes it
clear that he loves all mankind who keep his 10 simple laws.
"Y UltraMan Y" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5i7dleF3ni56gU1@mid.individual.net...

Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/iowa_state_promotes_atheist_pr.html



Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein
Kampf While Denying Tenure to ID Astronomer



While Iowa State University denied tenure this spring to gifted pro-
ID astronomer Guillermo Gonzalez, it turns out that it decided at the
same time to promote to full professor outspoken atheist Hector
Avalos, religious studies professor and faculty adviser to the ISU
Atheist and Agnostic Society. Avalos has led the charge against
Gonzalez and intelligent design on ISU's campus, helping to draft a
2005 petition denouncing intelligent design that ultimately was signed
by more than 120 ISU faculty.

Apparently ISU professors who are horrified by the supposed mixing of
metaphysics and scholarship on the part of ID proponents have no
qualms about supporting Avalos's explicit anti-religious propaganda,
including his effort to equate the Bible with Hitler's Mein Kampf (for
more on Avalos's view of the Bible, see below). It is worth pointing
out that ISU issued a press release a few years ago boasting about
Avalos's appointment as the executive director of a group affiliated
with the Council for Secular Humanism that seeks to debunk religion.

Avalos's promotion to full professor comes just in time for the
publication of his new book on the Bible later this month. According
to the publisher's description, Avalos argues in the book

that our world is best served by leaving the Bible as a relic of an
ancient civilization instead of the "living" document most religionist
scholars believe it should be. He urges his colleagues to concentrate
on educating the broader society to recognize the irrelevance and even
violent effects of the Bible in modern life.
Just how extreme Avalos's view of the Bible is can be seen in his
previous book, Fighting Words: The Origins of Religious Violence
(2005), in which he repeatedly equates the Bible with Hitler's Mein
Kampf. Indeed, in a section of the book titled "Scripture: A Zero-
Tolerance Argument," Avalos actually suggests that the Bible is worse
than Mein Kampf:

In fact, Mein Kampf does not contain a single explicit command for
genocide equivalent to those found in the Hebrew Bible... Thus, if all
of Mein Kampf is to be rejected simply for its implied genocidal
policies, we should certainly reject all of the Bible for some of its
explicit and blatant genocidal policies. [p. 363]
At other points, Avalos appears to blame Jewish people for Hitler's
attempt to exterminate them, locating the origins of the Holocaust in
what he calls "Hebrew racism." Consider the following passages:


"The purpose here is to show that the Nazi policy of genocide was
based on premises quite similar to those in the Hebrew Bible." [p.
316]

"the Nazi Holocaust represents the synthesis of attitudes found in
both the New Testament and the Hebrew scriptures." [p. 318]

"[Scholars Katz and Wolpoff] fail to see the parallels between certain
practices promulgated in the Hebrew Bible itself. Indeed, the supreme
irony of the Holocaust is that the genocidal policies first
systematically enunciated in the Hebrew scriptures were reversed by
the Nazis. Nazi ideology simply had better technology to do what
biblical authors had said they would do to their enemies." [pp.
318-319]

"Hitler saw himself as trying to counteract Hebrew racism, which he
saw as the main counterpart and enemy of the German race." [p. 319]


As if these statements were not enough, Prof. Avalos has equated
creationism with Nazism, denounced religion-inspired acts of love, and
even suggested that we "eliminate religion from human life
altogether":

"Nazi ideology is similar to creationist ideology, which believes that
scientific findings support the biblical stories of Creation and the
Flood." [p. 318]

"any act of love based on religion is immoral." [p. 369]

"Mother Teresa... advocated policies that helped to generate the very
pool of poor people she was attempting to help. Religious beliefs are
largely responsible for arguments against contraception, which helps
to perpetuate poverty and conflicts over scarce resources. So in the
end, did Mother Teresa help more people than were harmed by her
religious belief?" [p. 370]

"until the Abrahamic religions overthrow the master-slave model in
which they were born, we see little progress to be made. Since all
religious beliefs are ultimately unverifiable, the greatest scarce
resource of all is verifiability. And one way to remedy or minimize
unverifiability in any decision-making process, especially that
leading to violence, is to eliminate religion from human life
altogether." [p. 371, emphasis added]


Iowa taxpayers can be relieved to know that ISU is making sure their
tax dollars will be spent on worthy scholars like Prof. Avalos rather
than disreputable astronomers like Dr. Gonzalez.



.
User: "Deadrat"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 18 Aug 2007 01:02:59 PM
"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:1c864$46c72117$97d5996d$31482@ALLTEL.NET:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

This is one of those "opinions" based on mountains of facts. The Nazis
were fanatics, and record-keepings was one of their obsessions.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.

The ADL "admitts" no such thing, and you cannot provide a cite otherwise.

That most deaths occured due to Typhus, Typhoid, and Collera.
There were also a number of Jewish Trustee's in the camps who
were socialist and communists who were directly responcible for
seeing that their friends were fed and other Jews starved to death.

Very little mention of the Millions of Christians murdered by the
Bolshivick party in Leninist / Stalinist Russia

In the discussion of Nazi death camps, why would anyone mention events in
the USSR? Perhaps this is a different topic, say one covered by Gulag
Archipelago? Histories of the Nai death camps do mention however, the
persecution of certain Christian religious sects.

Many blame the Jews as they made up the majority of the Party,
but I do not.

Oh, come on. You do so. Wouldn't it feel better to just come out and
say so? You can do it. Come clean.

I blame the athiests who made up the whole of the Bolshivick Party.

You can't even spell it.

People who held themselves up above God and
hated the concept that they would eventually be judged for their
actions. Basicly they simply Hate "GOD"

Atheists may hate the concept of "GOD," the consequences of religion, and
the practitioners themselves, but they don't hate "GOD" since they don't
believe such a thing exists.

Which is interesting because throughout the Bible God makes it
clear that he loves all mankind who keep his 10 simple laws.

How would you know? I'll bet your Aramaic and Hebrew aren't any better
than your English spelling.
<snip>
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 18 Aug 2007 09:43:23 PM
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.

You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.
No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise, you'll
be lying again.
I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.
.
User: "Robert Miller"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 19 Aug 2007 12:38:06 AM
<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise, you'll
be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.

There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?
The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.
Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so that
evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness was never
presented.
Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they sometimes
exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?
Robert
.
User: "Deadrat"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 19 Aug 2007 03:25:49 AM
"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in news:99342$46c7d74b
$97d5996d$11666@ALLTEL.NET:


<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise, you'll
be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.


There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?

The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.

Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so that
evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness was never
presented.

Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they sometimes
exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?

Robert

Just out of curiosity, how far does your Holocaust denial go? Is it just
Zyklon B that you're denying? The Nazi plans for extermination? Or is
it the deaths entirely?
.
User: "Robert Miller"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 19 Aug 2007 10:20:05 AM
"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:h8Txi.6432$4w7.3168@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in news:99342$46c7d74b
$97d5996d$11666@ALLTEL.NET:


<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise, you'll
be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.


There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?

The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.

Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so that
evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness was never
presented.

Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they sometimes
exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?

Robert


Just out of curiosity, how far does your Holocaust denial go? Is it just
Zyklon B that you're denying? The Nazi plans for extermination? Or is
it the deaths entirely?

Can you admitt that any Jews died of Plague? due to poor sanitary
conditions?, bad water and little good food? How many might have died
this way? None?, Thousands?, Tens of thousands?
Am I a holocaust denier because I rely on official records at the War Crimes
Trial at Nurenburg? or the testimony of the Army field doctors who conducted
the autopsies?
It was this official evidence that changed me from a commited believer to a
skeptic in the first place.
Robert
.
User: "Deadrat"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 19 Aug 2007 06:58:37 PM
"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:e95ff$46c85fb1$97d5996d$17328@ALLTEL.NET:


"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:h8Txi.6432$4w7.3168@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:99342$46c7d74b $97d5996d$11666@ALLTEL.NET:


<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise,
you'll be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.


There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?

The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.

Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so that
evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness was
never presented.

Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they sometimes
exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?

Robert


Just out of curiosity, how far does your Holocaust denial go? Is it
just Zyklon B that you're denying? The Nazi plans for extermination?
Or is it the deaths entirely?


Can you admitt that any Jews died of Plague?

The plague?

due to poor sanitary
conditions?, bad water and little good food? How many might have died
this way? None?, Thousands?, Tens of thousands?

Who knows? Why don't you just answer my question? How far does your
Holocaust denial go?


Am I a holocaust denier because I rely on official records at the War
Crimes Trial at Nurenburg? or the testimony of the Army field doctors
who conducted the autopsies?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Your denial is given in hints about
"official stories" that you no longer believe.

It was this official evidence that changed me from a commited believer
to a skeptic in the first place.

What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of Jews killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.

Robert

.
User: "Robert Miller"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 31 Aug 2007 11:19:53 PM
"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:NO4yi.2301$LL7.1066@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:e95ff$46c85fb1$97d5996d$17328@ALLTEL.NET:


"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:h8Txi.6432$4w7.3168@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:99342$46c7d74b $97d5996d$11666@ALLTEL.NET:


<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying. I
know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have joined
that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise,
you'll be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.


There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?

The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.

Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so that
evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness was
never presented.

Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they sometimes
exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?

Robert


Just out of curiosity, how far does your Holocaust denial go? Is it
just Zyklon B that you're denying? The Nazi plans for extermination?
Or is it the deaths entirely?


Can you admitt that any Jews died of Plague?


The plague?

due to poor sanitary
conditions?, bad water and little good food? How many might have died
this way? None?, Thousands?, Tens of thousands?


Who knows? Why don't you just answer my question? How far does your
Holocaust denial go?


Am I a holocaust denier because I rely on official records at the War
Crimes Trial at Nurenburg? or the testimony of the Army field doctors
who conducted the autopsies?


I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Your denial is given in hints about
"official stories" that you no longer believe.

It was this official evidence that changed me from a commited believer
to a skeptic in the first place.


What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of Jews
killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.


I thought I had. I believe many more Jews died of Typhus, Tyhoid, and
Collera than is generally reported and far fewer were murdered by the
Germans than reported. I also believe many Jews died at the hands of
Jewish trustee's in the camps than is generally reported, never heard of
any of these folks being charged with crimes, but I don't doudt many of them
were later prosicuted.
Robert
.
User: "Deadrat"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 01 Sep 2007 01:39:34 AM
"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:c60fd$46d8e868$471cb8f7$19132@ALLTEL.NET:


"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:NO4yi.2301$LL7.1066@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:e95ff$46c85fb1$97d5996d$17328@ALLTEL.NET:


"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:h8Txi.6432$4w7.3168@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...

"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:99342$46c7d74b $97d5996d$11666@ALLTEL.NET:


<bge@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tbbfc3tbfqg7adbrs457ckpr79e9373k95@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:40:52 -0400, "Robert Miller"
<rober999@windstream.net> wrote:

Anyone can have an opinion based on fact or not. Many believe
the Nazi's maintained camps for the gassing and cremation of
Jews.

In fact the ADL now admitts there was no such policy.


You are probably referring to the American Dirtballs for Lying.
I know a lot of dirtballs and mental defectives like you have
joined that group.

No other ADL has said what you say, and if you say otherwise,
you'll be lying again.

I see enough sickos at work. kerplonk.


There were some many autopsies done on the corpses in the death
camps. Can you find any cite that documented death by gassing?

The Nurenburg Trial would be a good place to start except there
was none presented. However there was the written testimony of
one of the victims presented that declaired such things happened.

Unfortunately written testimoney can not be cross examined, so
that evidence will be suspect till the end of time. The witness
was never presented.

Tell me do victims ever lie about what happened? Do they
sometimes exagerate, out of anger or want of revenge?

Robert


Just out of curiosity, how far does your Holocaust denial go? Is
it just Zyklon B that you're denying? The Nazi plans for
extermination?
Or is it the deaths entirely?


Can you admitt that any Jews died of Plague?


The plague?

due to poor sanitary
conditions?, bad water and little good food? How many might have
died this way? None?, Thousands?, Tens of thousands?


Who knows? Why don't you just answer my question? How far does your
Holocaust denial go?


Am I a holocaust denier because I rely on official records at the
War Crimes Trial at Nurenburg? or the testimony of the Army field
doctors who conducted the autopsies?


I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Your denial is given in hints
about "official stories" that you no longer believe.

It was this official evidence that changed me from a commited
believer to a skeptic in the first place.


What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of Jews
killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.


I thought I had.

Don't be coy. How many fewer Jews than 6M do you think the Nazis were
responsible for killing?

I believe many more Jews died of Typhus, Tyhoid, and Collera

It's typhus, typhoid fever, and cholera.

than is generally reported and far fewer were murdered by the
Germans than reported.

So this means that if Jews died of diseases caused by the conditions of
concentrations camps, then they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?

I also believe many Jews died at the hands of
Jewish trustee's in the camps than is generally reported,

Sure you believe it. You're an antisemite.
(Trustees are people named to implement a trust; trusties are inmates
with special privileges.)
So this means that if Jews died at the hands of agents of the Nazis, then
they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?

never heard
of any of these folks being charged with crimes, but I don't doudt
many of them were later prosicuted.

As for prosecution, look up "coercion."
Get help.
I'm no expert, but I think your own religion says that your soul is in
mortal danger.

Robert

.
User: "Kent Wills"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 01 Sep 2007 06:24:19 AM
As I understand it, on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:39:34 GMT, Deadrat
<a@b.com> wrote:
[...]

What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of Jews
killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.


I thought I had.


Don't be coy. How many fewer Jews than 6M do you think the Nazis were
responsible for killing?

Let's say it was only four million. Does that make it right?
Of course not.


I believe many more Jews died of Typhus, Tyhoid, and Collera


It's typhus, typhoid fever, and cholera.

than is generally reported and far fewer were murdered by the
Germans than reported.


So this means that if Jews died of diseases caused by the conditions of
concentrations camps, then they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?

*Technically* no. Even if this were the case, the living
conditions were such that those who didn't die in the gas chambers
were almost guarantied to die from disease.


I also believe many Jews died at the hands of
Jewish trustee's in the camps than is generally reported,


Sure you believe it. You're an antisemite.

(Trustees are people named to implement a trust; trusties are inmates
with special privileges.)

So this means that if Jews died at the hands of agents of the Nazis, then
they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?

If the trusty in question wasn't German, no.
That's how he'll justify it. Not every Jew in the death camps
was German, so it's probable than not every Jewish Trustee was German.
It's semantics, of course, but many anti-Semites use semantics
to justify their claims.


never heard
of any of these folks being charged with crimes, but I don't doudt
many of them were later prosicuted.


As for prosecution, look up "coercion."

If any trustees did murder anyone, I would hope that they were
tried for it. The conditions should have come into play in regards to
sentencing, presuming they were found guilty.


Get help.

I'm no expert, but I think your own religion says that your soul is in
mortal danger.

--
Kent
Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.
.
User: "Robert Miller"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 01 Sep 2007 12:23:17 PM
"Kent Wills" <compuelf@gmail.con> wrote in message
news:ijiid35d8dc8l7ua598lpcfl9q728iallf@4ax.com...

As I understand it, on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:39:34 GMT, Deadrat
<a@b.com> wrote:

[...]

What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of Jews
killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.


I thought I had.


Don't be coy. How many fewer Jews than 6M do you think the Nazis were
responsible for killing?


Let's say it was only four million. Does that make it right?
Of course not.


I believe many more Jews died of Typhus, Tyhoid, and Collera


It's typhus, typhoid fever, and cholera.

than is generally reported and far fewer were murdered by the
Germans than reported.


So this means that if Jews died of diseases caused by the conditions of
concentrations camps, then they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?


Many things that happen in war are not right prisoners of the American
civil war died of typhus, thphoid, and cholera. Was that murder?
The commanders of the Confederate camps were prosicuted even though
they tried to return their prisoners to the Union who refused.
Commanders of Union camps were never prosicuted for the same crimes
accused of confederate commanders. The winners define the crimes and
write the history books.

*Technically* no. Even if this were the case, the living
conditions were such that those who didn't die in the gas chambers
were almost guarantied to die from disease.

As did many German civilians not in camps. With food production and
distribution disrupted by allied bombings and availibility of clean water
also disrupted and a population of refugees in transit across the nation
conditions were perfect for plague to spread around the country, not
just in the camps.


I also believe many Jews died at the hands of
Jewish trustee's in the camps than is generally reported,


Sure you believe it. You're an antisemite.

I can make the same claim of "Good Jews" as antisemites better than you
can make that claim of myself.

(Trustees are people named to implement a trust; trusties are inmates
with special privileges.)

So this means that if Jews died at the hands of agents of the Nazis, then
they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?


Did I say that? Or do I point it out because some of the blame is well
placed
on members of your own population?

If the trusty in question wasn't German, no.
That's how he'll justify it. Not every Jew in the death camps
was German, so it's probable than not every Jewish Trustee was German.
It's semantics, of course, but many anti-Semites use semantics
to justify their claims.

Perhaps I'm merely anti-zionist as are many Orthodox Jews. Probably just
as bad in your eyes.


never heard
of any of these folks being charged with crimes, but I don't doudt
many of them were later prosicuted.


As for prosecution, look up "coercion."


If any trustees did murder anyone, I would hope that they were
tried for it. The conditions should have come into play in regards to
sentencing, presuming they were found guilty.


Get help.

I'm no expert, but I think your own religion says that your soul is in
mortal danger.


--
Kent
Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.

.
User: "Deadrat"

Title: Re: Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible With Mein Kampf 01 Sep 2007 04:26:07 PM
"Robert Miller" <rober999@windstream.net> wrote in
news:12941$46d9a015$4b5936f8$24353@ALLTEL.NET:


"Kent Wills" <compuelf@gmail.con> wrote in message
news:ijiid35d8dc8l7ua598lpcfl9q728iallf@4ax.com...

As I understand it, on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:39:34 GMT, Deadrat
<a@b.com> wrote:

[...]

What exactly is it that you're skeptical about? The number of
Jews killed?
The method of killing? Spell it out for us.


I thought I had.


Don't be coy. How many fewer Jews than 6M do you think the Nazis
were responsible for killing?


Let's say it was only four million. Does that make it right?
Of course not.


I believe many more Jews died of Typhus, Tyhoid, and Collera


It's typhus, typhoid fever, and cholera.

than is generally reported and far fewer were murdered by the
Germans than reported.


So this means that if Jews died of diseases caused by the conditions
of concentrations camps, then they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?


Many things that happen in war are not right prisoners of the American
civil war died of typhus, thphoid, and cholera. Was that murder?

Was there intent or criminal neglect?

The commanders of the Confederate camps were prosicuted even though
they tried to return their prisoners to the Union who refused.

Cite?

Commanders of Union camps were never prosicuted for the same crimes
accused of confederate commanders. The winners define the crimes and
write the history books.

Sure they do. It may mean their judgments are not balanced, but it
doesn't mean that their judgments are wrong.
Aside from that, you actually have the nerve to compare treatment of
prisoners of (the US Civil) war to Nazi treatment of civilians, their
fellow citizens and those of countries they invaded.
It's a mystery to me why your head doesn't just explode.

*Technically* no. Even if this were the case, the living
conditions were such that those who didn't die in the gas chambers
were almost guarantied to die from disease.

As did many German civilians not in camps. With food production and
distribution disrupted by allied bombings and availibility of clean
water also disrupted and a population of refugees in transit across
the nation conditions were perfect for plague to spread around the
country, not just in the camps.

This is nonsense. German camp policy from the getgo was deliberate
deprivation, impossible work loads, and deadly living conditions. That
is, when the policy wasn't immediate extermination upon arrival at the
camp.

I also believe many Jews died at the hands of
Jewish trustee's in the camps than is generally reported,


Sure you believe it. You're an antisemite.

I can make the same claim of "Good Jews" as antisemites better than
you can make that claim of myself.

Of course you can *make* the claim. You're an expert at making claims.
You just can't back them up with evidence and logic. Your posts show
classic signs of antisemitism. "Good Germans" I know, but I don't know
who the "Good Jews" are. Give me a clue as to whom you mean.


(Trustees are people named to implement a trust; trusties are inmates
with special privileges.)

So this means that if Jews died at the hands of agents of the Nazis,
then they weren't "murdered by the Germans"?


Did I say that?

I'm not sure. That's why I asked. Is that what you mean?

Or do I point it out because some of the blame is well placed
on members of your own population?

First of all, how does "blame" for their own deaths accrue to people who
are imprisoned under conditions guaranteed to kill them?
Secondly, how did this "population" become mine?

If the trusty in question wasn't German, no.
That's how he'll justify it. Not every Jew in the death camps
was German, so it's probable than not every Jewish Trustee was
German. It's semantics, of course, but many anti-Semites use
semantics to justify their claims.

Perhaps I'm merely anti-zionist as are many Orthodox Jews.

Again. Not "many" Orthodox Jews. How many do you know, by the way? And
they abjure Zionism for religious reasons. What's your excuse?

Probably just as bad in your eyes.

Depends on your reasons. Are you an anti-nationalist in general, or is
it just Jews who shouldn't have national rights?
<snip>

--
Kent
Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.

.













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