Religions > Atheism > Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
23 May 2005 11:59:47 PM |
| Object: |
Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153 = 1^3 + 5^3 + 3^3
EAC's chief cook and brainwasher
-----
"You won't find any opposition to the idea of evolution among
sophisticated, educated theologians. It comes from an
exceedingly retarded, primitive version of religion, which
unfortunately is at present undergoing an epidemic in the
United States."
- Richard Dawkins
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Iranian Leader Wants Candidates Reinstated
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 36 minutes ago
TEHRAN, Iran -
Iran's supreme leader ordered the hard-line constitutional
watchdog council to reconsider its decision to bar senior
reformist candidates from running in next month's presidential
elections, state-run television reported Monday.
The Guardian Council, which vets the election candidates, on
Sunday rejected all the reformists registered to run in next
month's presidential elections. The council rejected all but six
of the 1,000 hopeful candidates. Among those rejected were all the
female candidates.
"It's appropriate that all individuals in the country be given the
choice from various political tendencies," supreme leader
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said in his decree addressed to Guardian
Council chief Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati.
"Therefore, it seems that (the) qualification of Mr. Moin and Mr.
Mehralizadeh be reconsidered," the television quoted Khamenei's
decree as saying, referring to the two most prominent reformists
disqualified, Mostafa Moin and Vice President Mohsen Mehralizadeh.
Khamenei made the statement after parliamentary speaker Gholam Ali
Haddad Adel, also a hard-liner, called on the supreme leader to
intervene in the growing dispute over the disqualification of Moin
and Mehralizadeh to encourage more Iranians to vote June 17.
Moin, a former culture minister and the top presidential prospect
for reformists, had said he would not vote in the elections and
called his disqualification "illegal, unfair and illogical."
Khamenei made no mention of 89 women hopefuls who have been barred
from running because of their gender, and it is not expected that
women would be allowed to run.
The Guardian Council's decision to disqualify all reformists
prompted an outcry and calls for an election boycott. None of the
six candidates whose participation was approved came from the
reformist camp.
Saeed Shariati, leader of Moin's party, which is the largest
reform party, stopped short of announcing a boycott but said his
Islamic Iran Participation Front party "won't participate in a
sham election where the outcome has already been decided by
hard-liners."
The Guardian Council justified its decision in published remarks
that made clear it expects the next president to shy away from
attempting the political reforms President Mohammad Khatami sought
but repeatedly was blocked from implementing.
"Thoughts of the president have to be in line with the thoughts of
the supreme leader," Jannati was quoted as saying in Monday's
edition of Saheb-e-Ghalam newspaper.
Ruling clerics, led by supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, are
seeking to consolidate their power following the departure of
Khatami, who is barred by law from seeking another term.
The Islamic Iran Participation Front warned in a statement that
hard-liners were sacrificing Iran's security and national
interests to remain in power and that the Guardian Council
"prefers to endanger the country's security and national interests
to remain in power for a short time."
The Guardian Council is controlled by hard-liners loyal to
Khamenei, who has the final say on all state matters. The council
also bars women from running for office.
The presidential election comes as Iran is facing international
pressure over its controversial nuclear program, trying to
convince the United States and Europe it is not seeking to develop
weapons. Moin was the only candidate who supported Iran's
continued suspension of all uranium enrichment-related activities
to avoid a nuclear crisis and reach a compromise with the
Europeans.
Approved candidates for the June 17 presidential race include
powerful former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, who moves frequently
between the hard-line and more moderate camps and is seen as a
front-runner.
Others include former police chief Mohammad Bagher Qalibaf; former
radio and television chief Ali Larijani; Tehran Mayor Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad; former head of the elite Revolutionary Guards Mohsen
Rezaei; and former parliamentary speaker Mahdi Karroubi.
Qalibaf, Larijani, Ahmadinejad and Rezaei are widely seen as
Khamenei candidates because of their strong loyalty to him. All
are former military commanders.
Karroubi has some support among reform-minded voters loyal to the
clerical establishment, including hard-line clerics who have
somewhat moderated their views. However, he is unpopular among
young Iranians, who make up the majority of Iran's 70 million
population and are more inclined toward sweeping reforms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 06:55:17 AM |
|
|
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted" the
candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved of, the
new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the *approved* ballot or
lose their grip on power entirely.
.
|
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 11:56:03 AM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted"
the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved
of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the
*approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
|
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| User: "Clockmeister" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 02:17:42 PM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted"
the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved
of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the
*approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
.
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 03:30:51 PM |
|
|
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that it began after we successfully help
the Iraqis to set up a free democratic regime, and after Bush made a
certain speech about supporting democratic movements.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
|
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 05:40:56 PM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116966651.be9f69d7303bde71d363a051b94a8548@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that it began after we successfully help
the Iraqis to set up a free democratic regime, and after Bush made a
certain speech about supporting democratic movements.
Come on, how can you argue with such brilliance as, "The US had nothing to
do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.?" I say that he's proven his point
entirely and without need for rebuttal.
.
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 05:57:06 PM |
|
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"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:Y3Oke.13$az3.17199@twister.southeast.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116966651.be9f69d7303bde71d363a051b94a8548@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without
a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power
entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that it began after we successfully
help the Iraqis to set up a free democratic regime, and after Bush
made a certain speech about supporting democratic movements.
Come on, how can you argue with such brilliance as, "The US had
nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.?" I say that he's
proven his point entirely and without need for rebuttal.
I must admit that his eloquence and irrefutable logic had me floored for
a whole nanosecond.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Clockmeister" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 06:12:20 AM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116975427.4a9801b3d6cdde435696c7313688bc92@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:Y3Oke.13$az3.17199@twister.southeast.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116966651.be9f69d7303bde71d363a051b94a8548@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without
a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power
entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that it began after we successfully
help the Iraqis to set up a free democratic regime, and after Bush
made a certain speech about supporting democratic movements.
Come on, how can you argue with such brilliance as, "The US had
nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.?" I say that he's
proven his point entirely and without need for rebuttal.
I must admit that his eloquence and irrefutable logic had me floored for
a whole nanosecond.
Nonetheless, I'm still right. The European community has helped Iran get
with the times for over a decade and no amount of your nonsense will change
that fact.
.
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| User: "Clayton, The Whore Whisperer" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 07:29:47 PM |
|
|
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted"
the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved
of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the
*approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in the
world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing good ever
happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only bad things happen
when the US isn't involved!!!
.
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 06:04:58 AM |
|
|
"Clayton, The ***** Whisperer" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in
news:4293c678$0$4659$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without
a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power
entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing good
ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only bad
things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Clockmeister" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 06:14:02 AM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1117019098.b900eae49c945975c5e281a56286aa5d@teranews...
"Clayton, The ***** Whisperer" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote in
news:4293c678$0$4659$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without
a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power
entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing good
ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only bad
things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
The only thing you and your kind prove is that you're a complete ignoramus
when it comes to the real world affairs.
You're just another tragic victim of the US propaganda machine that suckers
in the gullible and stupid.
.
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 08:50:34 AM |
|
|
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42945d77@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1117019098.b900eae49c945975c5e281a56286aa5d@teranews...
"Clayton, The ***** Whisperer" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote
in news:4293c678$0$4659$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in
another nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free
forces the leadership to change. The extremist muslims are
losing without a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The
US was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only
those they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced
them to broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on
power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing
good ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only
bad things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
The only thing you and your kind prove is that you're a complete
ignoramus when it comes to the real world affairs.
Ah, more affirmations from the Loonie Left.
You're just another tragic victim of the US propaganda machine that
suckers in the gullible and stupid.
You're a perfect example of gullible and stupid.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
|
|
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| User: "Clockmeister" |
|
| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 11:24:12 AM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1117029119.12949b22280b93b1329696ccd5d5124f@teranews...
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:42945d77@duster.adelaide.on.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1117019098.b900eae49c945975c5e281a56286aa5d@teranews...
"Clayton, The ***** Whisperer" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote
in news:4293c678$0$4659$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:42937d57$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in
another nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free
forces the leadership to change. The extremist muslims are
losing without a single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The
US was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only
those they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced
them to broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on
power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing
good ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only
bad things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
The only thing you and your kind prove is that you're a complete
ignoramus when it comes to the real world affairs.
Ah, more affirmations from the Loonie Left.
You're just another tragic victim of the US propaganda machine that
suckers in the gullible and stupid.
You're a perfect example of gullible and stupid.
Your views are so misaligned and uneducated that your opinion on the subject
is null and void.
.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 06:44:38 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Clayton, The ***** Whisperer wrote:
Clockmeister wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing good
ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only bad
things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
LOL, Fred. Now, please explain to us laughing libruls and commies:
1) In what way elections under occupation and under the rules
and threats of the occupiers, plus the threats from both pro
and anti occupation militias can be called free (see Lebanon),
2) how elections with regions barred from voting, with parties
critical of the occupation being pushed out and their members
arrested (even if by their position they have immunity under
the US-fomented transitional law), with people voting for
numbers, with money and coverage and sectarian coalitions
formed by warlords or foreigners (that includes Sistani), and
without foreign observers and other standards well below
last year's Ukrainian elections can be called open,
3) How a last-ditch successful attempt by the Iranian Reform
movement to get at least a moderately pro-reform candidate
in the race for President is a sign of the influence of the US
occupation, rather than the previous two years' crackdowns
and power grab by the conservative ideological friends and
mentors of the current Iraqi semi-puppets, crowned by their
victory in the last parliamentary elections? (Which, BTW,
were again of a higher standard than the Iraqi one, but of
course that doesn't say much.)
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Unpatriotic***, adj.
In total agreement with the professed aims and beliefs
of one's own government, and thus in total disagreement
with its true aims and beliefs.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 09:26:48 AM |
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"Daneel" <not@your.biz> wrote in news:d71ocd$e5d$1@namru.matavnet.hu:
Fred Stone wrote:
Clayton, The ***** Whisperer wrote:
Clockmeister wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing
good ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only
bad things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
LOL, Fred. Now, please explain to us laughing libruls and commies:
1) In what way elections under occupation and under the rules
and threats of the occupiers, plus the threats from both pro
and anti occupation militias can be called free (see Lebanon),
We didn't make the rules under which the elections were held. All we did
was to mediate the negotiations. Remember that Sistani and his moderate
Shiite faction very effectively shut down the original Coalition plan to
appoint the Interim government.
2) how elections with regions barred from voting, with parties
critical of the occupation being pushed out and their members
arrested (even if by their position they have immunity under
the US-fomented transitional law), with people voting for
numbers, with money and coverage and sectarian coalitions
formed by warlords or foreigners (that includes Sistani), and
without foreign observers and other standards well below
last year's Ukrainian elections can be called open,
You do realize that there were well over a hundred different parties who
participated in that election. Those regions which were "barred" from
voting did so by their own boycott, not by force from the Coalition. And
even with the boycott, the parties that *did* participate have reached
out to those who boycotted.
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their criticism in
a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out. Those who tried to
foment violence were dealt with in the same way that any government
would deal with violence.
People were voting for parties, not individuals, so the numbers were no
big deal anyway.
3) How a last-ditch successful attempt by the Iranian Reform
movement to get at least a moderately pro-reform candidate
in the race for President is a sign of the influence of the US
occupation, rather than the previous two years' crackdowns
and power grab by the conservative ideological friends and
mentors of the current Iraqi semi-puppets, crowned by their
victory in the last parliamentary elections? (Which, BTW,
were again of a higher standard than the Iraqi one, but of
course that doesn't say much.)
Huh? Man, if you spin that any harder your head will come unscrewed.
The last-ditch effort of the Iranian Reform movement may succeed because
of popular pressure arising from the fact that Iranian reformists have
been encouraged by the success of the Iraqi elections.
And the so-called Iraqi semi-puppets are *not* friends of the Iranian
hard-liners. Sistani's faction is one that does not believe that
religious scholars should participate directly in the government.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 01:26:42 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Daneel wrote:
3) How a last-ditch successful attempt by the Iranian Reform
movement to get at least a moderately pro-reform candidate
in the race for President is a sign of the influence of the US
occupation, rather than the previous two years' crackdowns
and power grab by the conservative ideological friends and
mentors of the current Iraqi semi-puppets, crowned by their
victory in the last parliamentary elections? (Which, BTW,
were again of a higher standard than the Iraqi one, but of
course that doesn't say much.)
Huh? Man, if you spin that any harder your head will come unscrewed.
Then stop running around me in circles and read it again.
Maybe it went past your attention, but the Iranian conservatives
spent the last two years with eliminating a reformist majority
in Parliament and government and the press, and crushed student
uprisings by the way, all with reference to dangers for national
security etc. What the Iranian opposition won in this last-ditch
attempt is much less than ***what they already had*** prior to
the invasion next door. Even that election is something still to
be won - and given how the last parliamentary elections went,
it is not at all certain even urban majorities will believe the
reformists 'can do it' this time.
And the so-called Iraqi semi-puppets are *not* friends of the Iranian
hard-liners. Sistani's faction is one that does not believe that
religious scholars should participate directly in the government.
You're wrong on both counts. They are very much good friends,
both DAAWA and SCIRI resided for long in Iran, and made
quite clear voices about their intentions when returning to
Iraq (and their militias doing the same the Mahdi Army was
accused of, in Najaf too), until the need to get nice with the
occupiers and Sistani's council forced them to tone down.
SCIRI is essentially an Iranian outfit, its military arm, the Badr
Brigades (which Sistani gave positions on the joint list as a
separate organisation, boosting SCIRI that way) fought against
Iraq on Iran's side (this was something the father of Moqtada
al-Sadr and his followers hated them for).
As for Sistani's supposed support for separation of church and
state, I wouldn't expect a student of Machiavelli to buy such
crock. What Sistani is doing is demanding the same salad with
a different dressing: he wants a constitution which demands
parliamentary MPs to follow the rulings of their sect's top
clerics. In other words, he won't get the title of Guardian from
the state, but given the Shiite majority and the monopolisitc
coalition he forged, he will be a de-facto Guardian.
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Leader***, n.
He who is last to the field of battle and
first to the field of victory.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 03:10:12 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
Clayton, The ***** Whisperer wrote:
Clockmeister wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything in
the world that is good is because of Bush and the US....nothing
good ever happens without the stars and stripes behind it and only
bad things happen when the US isn't involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you jackass
libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
LOL, Fred. Now, please explain to us laughing libruls and commies:
1) In what way elections under occupation and under the rules
and threats of the occupiers, plus the threats from both pro
and anti occupation militias can be called free (see Lebanon),
We
Who we?
didn't make the rules under which the elections were held. All we did
was to mediate the negotiations.
If your read Machiavelli, you know bloody well that that's
basically the same - especially given that most of the
negotiation was between parties in the US-created IGC.
Remember that Sistani and his moderate
Shiite faction very effectively shut down the original Coalition plan to
appoint the Interim government.
And what's your point? That was just time for Plan B (or
Plan C? Or Plan F?).
You do realize that there were well over a hundred different parties who
participated in that election.
I bloody well realise there were. That's why I mentioned
numbers, money, and media appearance. And the result (the
unverifiable official one BTW) showed just that: beyond the
two big sectarian parties and the State Department-supported
Allawi list, only ex IGC members gained meagre votes.
Those regions which were "barred" from
voting did so by their own boycott,
Nope. They did so because a) there was no registration at all,
b) voting ballots weren't delivered. I covered boycotts
elsewhere.
even with the boycott, the parties that *did* participate have reached
out to those who boycotted.
Sure that's why even the potemkin Sunni members of
Sistani's list left the fraction in protest a week ago. Come on,
you can do better than that!
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Ossify***, v.i.
To turn into bone, after the fashion of the air
within the skull of a religious convert.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
26 May 2005 07:31:21 AM |
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"Daneel" <not@your.biz> wrote in news:d72m3n$q8a$1@namru.matavnet.hu:
Fred Stone wrote:
Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
Clayton, The ***** Whisperer wrote:
Clockmeister wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after
Iraq held free and open elections.
The US had nothing to do with it, you stupid ignorant *****.
Oh don't you know.....according to Fred, anything and everything
in the world that is good is because of Bush and the
US....nothing good ever happens without the stars and stripes
behind it and only bad things happen when the US isn't
involved!!!
Nice strawman you got there, Clayton. I just love it when you
jackass libruls jump off the deep end to prove my points for me.
LOL, Fred. Now, please explain to us laughing libruls and commies:
1) In what way elections under occupation and under the rules
and threats of the occupiers, plus the threats from both pro
and anti occupation militias can be called free (see Lebanon),
We
Who we?
Us.
didn't make the rules under which the elections were held. All we
did
was to mediate the negotiations.
If your read Machiavelli, you know bloody well that that's
basically the same - especially given that most of the
negotiation was between parties in the US-created IGC.
Don't presume to teach me about Machiavelli.
Remember that Sistani and his moderate
Shiite faction very effectively shut down the original Coalition plan
to appoint the Interim government.
And what's your point? That was just time for Plan B (or
Plan C? Or Plan F?).
Yes, and plan B was to hold open elections for the Interim government.
You do realize that there were well over a hundred different parties
who participated in that election.
I bloody well realise there were. That's why I mentioned
numbers, money, and media appearance. And the result (the
unverifiable official one BTW) showed just that: beyond the
two big sectarian parties and the State Department-supported
Allawi list, only ex IGC members gained meagre votes.
So you agree that they were sectarians, not theocrats. Thank you.
Those regions which were "barred" from
voting did so by their own boycott,
Nope. They did so because a) there was no registration at all,
b) voting ballots weren't delivered. I covered boycotts
elsewhere.
Strange then that there was voting in even the most radical of Sunni
enclaves. Sparse, but present.
even with the boycott, the parties that *did* participate have
reached out to those who boycotted.
Sure that's why even the potemkin Sunni members of
Sistani's list left the fraction in protest a week ago.
Citation for that?
Come on,
you can do better than that!
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 01:33:11 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their criticism in
a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
People were voting for parties, not individuals, so the numbers were no
big deal anyway.
Now don't play this stupid. You know of course that it is
irrelevant to the fact that most people had no clue about
what their choices are whether their choice was of parties
or of people. BTW, good you bring this up: given that even
CPA polls showed that of all political figures and institutions,
Iraqis distrusted parties the most, Bremer's and the first
puppet's (the IGC's) rigging of the process was antidemocratic
in this respect too.
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Fanatic***, n.
Someone who pursues a wrong course of action
with noticeably more consistency than you are
displaying in pursuit of the right one.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 03:05:49 PM |
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"Daneel" <not@your.biz> wrote in news:d72gdq$o0s$1@namru.matavnet.hu:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their criticism
in a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
Sorry, I refuse to carry on a discussion with a snip-and-run artist.
People were voting for parties, not individuals, so the numbers were
no big deal anyway.
Now don't play this stupid. You know of course that it is
irrelevant to the fact that most people had no clue about
what their choices are whether their choice was of parties
or of people. BTW, good you bring this up: given that even
CPA polls showed that of all political figures and institutions,
Iraqis distrusted parties the most, Bremer's and the first
puppet's (the IGC's) rigging of the process was antidemocratic
in this respect too.
Bye yourself.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
26 May 2005 04:21:56 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their criticism
in a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
Sorry, I refuse to carry on a discussion with a snip-and-run artist.
I snipped only what's superfluous or repetitive, and you know
what you wrote anyway - I don't see what you should be upset
about. And I certainly don't run from you, it more seems the
other way.
People were voting for parties, not individuals, so the numbers were
no big deal anyway.
Now don't play this stupid. You know of course that it is
irrelevant to the fact that most people had no clue about
what their choices are whether their choice was of parties
or of people. BTW, good you bring this up: given that even
CPA polls showed that of all political figures and institutions,
Iraqis distrusted parties the most, Bremer's and the first
puppet's (the IGC's) rigging of the process was antidemocratic
in this respect too.
Bye yourself.
LOL, I didn't expect you to give up this fast. I must be doing
something right.
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Rump***, n.
The longest lived part of a political organisation, being
the part best adapted for the emission of wind.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
26 May 2005 09:21:27 AM |
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"Daneel" <not@your.biz> wrote in news:d744cm$dj2$1@namru.matavnet.hu:
Fred Stone wrote:
Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their
criticism
in a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
Sorry, I refuse to carry on a discussion with a snip-and-run artist.
I snipped only what's superfluous or repetitive,
Liar.
and you know
what you wrote anyway - I don't see what you should be upset
about. And I certainly don't run from you, it more seems the
other way.
Liar twice.
People were voting for parties, not individuals, so the numbers
were
no big deal anyway.
Now don't play this stupid. You know of course that it is
irrelevant to the fact that most people had no clue about
what their choices are whether their choice was of parties
or of people. BTW, good you bring this up: given that even
CPA polls showed that of all political figures and institutions,
Iraqis distrusted parties the most, Bremer's and the first
puppet's (the IGC's) rigging of the process was antidemocratic
in this respect too.
Bye yourself.
LOL, I didn't expect you to give up this fast. I must be doing
something right.
You don't answer my points, you just snip them. So there's nothing to
discuss.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
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| User: "Daneel" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 02:52:44 PM |
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Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their criticism in
a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
Supplement.
A nice illustration of the hypocrisy of Fred's argument is the
Fadila Party. Part of the Sistani Coalition, this is a Sadrist
party, but one not loyal to Muqtada but led by a rival contender
to his father's heritage. If anything, they are nastier than
Muqtada's troops, see for example what their local Mahdi
Army in Basra did a few months ago at Basra University. But
they didn't oppose the occupation as loudly and didn't give the
occupiers two successive strategic losses when Bremer resp.
Negroponte thought provocating and escalating an uprising(*)
could give a chance to eliminate them.
(*) I can give detailed timelines if your memory fails or
proves selective.
bye
Daneel [aa #323 | U of E student #000666]
*****************************************************************
random quote from P. Challinor's Satanic Supplement:
***Ally***, n. (Military)
A country which, when you kill its citizens, will let you off
with an exchange of diplomatic courtesies.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
26 May 2005 07:25:50 AM |
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"Daneel" <not@your.biz> wrote in news:d72l2v$ptr$1@namru.matavnet.hu:
Daneel wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
[...]
Parties critical of the occupation, but which pursued their
criticism in a peaceful, constructive way were not pushed out.
1) Outright lie. See the arrest of the Islamic Party leader.
2) It is not up to the occupier to decide the criterion for who
should run for electrions. By your criteria, the entire first US
congress should have been barred.
Supplement.
A nice illustration of the hypocrisy of Fred's argument is the
Fadila Party. Part of the Sistani Coalition, this is a Sadrist
party, but one not loyal to Muqtada but led by a rival contender
to his father's heritage. If anything, they are nastier than
Muqtada's troops, see for example what their local Mahdi
Army in Basra did a few months ago at Basra University. But
they didn't oppose the occupation as loudly and didn't give the
occupiers two successive strategic losses when Bremer resp.
Negroponte thought provocating and escalating an uprising(*)
could give a chance to eliminate them.
Well, if they weren't fighting the *liberators*, they weren't our
problem, were they?
(*) I can give detailed timelines if your memory fails or
proves selective.
As long as they participate in the political process, what's the beef? I
don't hear you complaining about Hamas' participation in the Palestinian
political process.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
28 May 2005 08:33:43 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews:
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted"
the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved
of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the
*approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
Iran, Iraq, what's the difference, huh Fred?
--
Phÿltêr
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
Remove "s" to respond
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
30 May 2005 08:35:38 AM |
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"Phÿltêr" <phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote in
news:XZ8me.5212$BR4.218@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews:
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
Iran, Iraq, what's the difference, huh Fred?
Was your comment supposed to make sense, Phylter?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
31 May 2005 09:43:54 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1117460139.72641dc74131706884f3d58ce27fbbcf@teranews:
"Phÿltêr" <phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote in
news:XZ8me.5212$BR4.218@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews:
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq held
free and open elections.
Iran, Iraq, what's the difference, huh Fred?
Was your comment supposed to make sense, Phylter?
Check me if I'm wrong, but the subject reads "Iran teaches the US....." and
you launch into "Iraq held free and open elections"....
--
Phÿltêr
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
Remove "s" to respond
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
31 May 2005 12:53:02 PM |
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"Phÿltêr" <phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote in
news:KK_me.8424$BR4.7362@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1117460139.72641dc74131706884f3d58ce27fbbcf@teranews:
"Phÿltêr" <phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote in
news:XZ8me.5212$BR4.218@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> astounded us with:
news:1116953763.965da69d45b3a2c80081e2080038339d@teranews:
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:FCEke.56132$vi2.1938565@twister.southeast.rr.com:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics
"vetted" the candidates and restricted the ballots to only those
they approved of, the new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to
broaden the *approved* ballot or lose their grip on power
entirely.
But it's only a *coincidence* that this has happened after Iraq
held free and open elections.
Iran, Iraq, what's the difference, huh Fred?
Was your comment supposed to make sense, Phylter?
Check me if I'm wrong, but the subject reads "Iran teaches the
US....." and you launch into "Iraq held free and open elections"....
Fester and I were merely noting the obvious connection between the
democratic movement in Iran and the developments in Iraq.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
.
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 01:36:29 PM |
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:55:17 GMT, "Fester" <not@home.com> wrote:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted" the
candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved of, the
new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the *approved* ballot or
lose their grip on power entirely.
Am I still plonked Fester?
.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 06:33:36 PM |
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"Eris" <vithant@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:kch9919r65bguratct67227jh1hf6h9vmm@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:55:17 GMT, "Fester" <not@home.com> wrote:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted" the
candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved of, the
new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the *approved* ballot or
lose their grip on power entirely.
Am I still plonked Fester?
Looks like your not. Got something to say?
.
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
25 May 2005 07:02:16 PM |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:33:36 GMT, "Fester" <not@home.com> wrote:
"Eris" <vithant@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:kch9919r65bguratct67227jh1hf6h9vmm@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:55:17 GMT, "Fester" <not@home.com> wrote:
<bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116910787.054293.150430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
IOW, after 20 years of elections inn which the ruling clerics "vetted" the
candidates and restricted the ballots to only those they approved of, the
new freedoms in Iraq have forced them to broaden the *approved* ballot or
lose their grip on power entirely.
Am I still plonked Fester?
Looks like your not. Got something to say?
Never did before, why start now? :=)
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Iran teaches the US another lesson in building a democracy |
24 May 2005 05:53:20 AM |
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wrote in news:1116910787.054293.150430
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
See? This is what happens when you don't interfere in another
nation's internal affairs: the public will to be free forces the
leadership to change. The extremist muslims are losing without a
single shot being fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections
Change doesn't come from without, it comes from within. The US
was founded on that notion; too bad it forgot.
Many Iranians acknowledge that the US success in Iraq has put enormous
pressure for reform on the Iranian government. And there is no guarantee
that the moderates can succeed without external support.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side: they still have to cut it.
.
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