| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth" |
| Date: |
06 Jul 2004 12:08:04 PM |
| Object: |
Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
A long, hot Iraqi night - without electricity
Los Angeles Times
July 04. 2004 8:00AM
Night is the worst time, everyone in the Qadr family agrees.
"Around 3 o'clock, it often gets so hot, everyone is awake," says
26-year-old Ali, the oldest of three sons. The family will chat in the
dark for a while, "but eventually, we've talked about every subject.
We're sick of hearing the same things, we're too tired to talk, but too
hot to sleep. It's awful."
Ali is describing how the Qadrs have lived without regular electricity -
for more than a year - to someone who has always taken power for
granted: an American.
The family lives just off Baghdad's airport highway, where U.S. soldiers
and foreign contractors are regularly shot at or bombed, in a
neighborhood called Jihad. Foreign journalists glimpse the community
from a distance when covering the highway ambushes.
On this night - before the U.S.-led coalition transferred authority to
an interim Iraqi government - the 15 members of the Qadr family have
welcomed one of those reporters into their spacious two-story
concrete-and-brick home. They have agreed to set aside their
considerable pride to show someone who has always had air-conditioning,
hot showers, chilled water and clean clothes what it feels like to lose
those comforts and more.
Patriarch Abed Qadr had hoped for brighter days after the ouster of
Saddam Hussein. But since the United States took control of Iraq, the
Qadrs' daily existence has slipped to something resembling life in the
early 20th century.
For as many as 16 hours a day, there is no power. Toilets don't flush.
Taking baths, washing dishes and laundering clothes are infrequent
privileges.
In the 110-degree daytime heat, there are no fans. No working
refrigerators. No ice cubes. The night provides little relief.
10 p.m. Qadr speaks just loud enough to be heard over the background
noise of automatic-rifle fire. A flashlight, brought by his visitor, is
propped on a table for light.
"After the Americans came, I believed President Bush. I thought things
would be better in Iraq," he says. "But now, after almost a year and a
half, there is no electricity, no water. There is more unemployment. My
life is worse than it was before the war."
U.S. occupation officials had predicted that electricity would return to
prewar levels - when Baghdad residents had power for all but a few hours
each day - by June 2003. In June 2004, the Coalition Provisional
Authority said it had finally reached prewar output. But for Baghdad
residents, there has been little noticeable improvement.
Something explodes in the distance. Things still blow up every few hours
in Baghdad.
Without working refrigerators, the family buys just enough fresh food to
consume the same day. Ali says that before the war, the family used to
buy lamb or chicken twice a week. Now they occasionally prepare a small
amount of meat and finish it all for lunch. Most of the time, it's not
worth the bother.
1:30 a.m. The Qadrs go over sleeping options with their guest. It is an
unusually cool night, so moving beds to the front yard looks like the
best choice.
Sleeping outside can be dangerous, they say. In Baghdad, there is always
the risk of falling bullets. Sleeping on the roof has long been a
popular practice, but Allawi says he and his brothers no longer do it,
fearing they will be mistaken for snipers and shot at by U.S.
helicopters.
Two consecutive "pop" sounds break the conversation. "Mortar,"Mohammed
says dryly. The pops are the sounds of the mortar rounds launching. A
few seconds later, they land with much louder explosions, reverberating
off the wall around the garden.
Inside the house, the air feels 20 degrees hotter than in the yard.
2 a.m. The gunfire stops.
The air has cooled to the mid-70s, with a slight breeze, just enough to
keep the mosquitoes away.
The explosions are over. The U.S. helicopters are no longer flying,
giving everyone a clear view of the stars. It is rare to have such a
cool night in June, Ali says: We must enjoy it. The relief will not last
long.
7:23 a.m. Another explosion goes off in the distance. Allawi and Alaa
head out to look for work.
No one feels like talking much in the house. Qadr and his guests sit
silently for stretches of 15 or 20 minutes that seem much longer,
staring at a battery-powered clock with a scene of Mecca painted on its
face.
"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long. Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
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| User: "Rommel" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
06 Jul 2004 04:52:46 PM |
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"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long. Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 09:52:51 AM |
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"Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote in message news:<OaFGc.58764$kz.10904692@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long. Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
"I'd like to thank you for getting rid of that robber, Mr. Policeman,
but, um, do you think you, um, go now? You've been here an awfully
long time and I really need to clean up."
"Why you ungrateful *****! I should go and bring that burglar
back!"
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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| User: "Dont Clayton And Then Drive!" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:35:41 PM |
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"Andrew Lias" <anrwlias@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffc8a152.0407070652.7d330d57@posting.google.com...
"Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote in message
news:<OaFGc.58764$kz.10904692@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr
says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long.
Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast
they want the US back.
"I'd like to thank you for getting rid of that robber, Mr. Policeman,
but, um, do you think you, um, go now? You've been here an awfully
long time and I really need to clean up."
"Why you ungrateful *****! I should go and bring that burglar
back!"
Doctor: What are you pissing and moaning about? You had a tumour....I got
rid of it...and I didn't go ***** farting around with surgery or hospital or
anything...I made sure it was done properly by blowing it out with a shotgun
and in the convenience of your own home! Sure it made a bit of a mess, but
imagine how much pain you would be in if I hadn't shot it out! Oh shut
up....I've got someone mopping the blood up off your floor as quickly as
possible...it's your fault for keeping on bleeding. I'm going to make sure
they stay here and keep mopping and I'm letting you hold onto the wound and
wear my doctor's hat for a while....you should be thanking me instead of all
that moaning and screaming. Ungrateful *****!!
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 04:21:04 PM |
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"I'd like to thank you for getting rid of that robber, Mr. Policeman,
but, um, do you think you, um, go now? You've been here an awfully
long time and I really need to clean up."
"Why you ungrateful *****! I should go and bring that burglar
back!"
And the most important part of that story that you so conveniently left out....
The burglar was really an old grandmother coming to deliver cookies, but the corrupt policeman beat her
unconscious and claimed he saw her trying to break into your house with WMD and was going to rob you. The
"cop" stays for over a year while beating, raping and torturing you and your family. Eventually, one day
he says you are in charge of your own house again, but does not leave and continues to beat, rape and
torture you and your family. He takes the poor old lady and puts her on trial for burglary crimes and
does not allow her to have a lawyer. Anything she says is carefully edited and censored by him before it
can be seen or heard by anyone.
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 09:52:31 AM |
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"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long. Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
Great, because that is exactly what the Iraqis have been begging for and
saying too!
Let's do exactly that! After all, if they are their own country now (LOL)
and can make their own decisions now (ROTFFL) we should grant this request of
theirs.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
06 Jul 2004 04:57:13 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long. Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
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| User: "Rommel" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
06 Jul 2004 06:45:28 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:i08me011ig1rvirg2pojple2ku84275uai@4ax.com...
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
"I really don't have any ill feelings about American people," Qadr
says.
"I just don't like American soldiers here in our country for so long.
Do
you think President Bush could accept living this way for more than a
year?"
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Thats like saying they are the least stinky, offensive pile of
dogshit. Good point.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:15:30 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Exactly: Saddam was Osama's enemy and Bush does Osama's bidding.
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| User: "NoName" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:49:07 AM |
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America wrote in news:8aqne09illmhjnnuomfbqqfotml9r3o94o@4ax.com:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
This assertion is patently false. Consider the histories of Fallujah (The
City of Mosques) and Najaf, and you'll realize that the country wasn't the
"least Muslim" (whatever the hell that means) or most secular, but they
hadn't embraced jihadism. This is not to say that pan-Arabism and
nationalistic pride coupled with their love of their faith is never
destructive, but in Iraq, their values never tended to worldwide jihad.
Saddam's own feelings toward religion are complicated, but he did embrace
publicly more piety as a way of relating to his populus, though obviously
was as hypocritical as the Saudi royal family.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 11:06:44 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:49:07 -0500, NoName <nomail@please.com> wrote
in Message-ID: <Xns951F59A7C3B92nomailpleasecom@216.196.97.133:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
This assertion is patently false ...
No, it isn't. You're merely ignorant of that reality.
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| User: "NoName" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 11:15:53 AM |
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America wrote in news:up7oe0tjgs4d3bd8j0jdv0envun75qj868@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:49:07 -0500, NoName <nomail@please.com> wrote
in Message-ID: <Xns951F59A7C3B92nomailpleasecom@216.196.97.133:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast
they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
This assertion is patently false ...
No, it isn't. You're merely ignorant of that reality.
Odd, you snipped my argument that totally refuted your fantasy.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 12:14:39 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 11:15:53 -0500, NoName <nomail@please.com> wrote:
America wrote in news:up7oe0tjgs4d3bd8j0jdv0envun75qj868@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:49:07 -0500, NoName <nomail@please.com> wrote
in Message-ID: <Xns951F59A7C3B92nomailpleasecom@216.196.97.133:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how
fast they want the US back.
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
This assertion is patently false ...
No, it isn't. You're merely ignorant of that reality.
Odd ...
No, it's typical of you as a bushkultie to be clueless and tell lies.
Iraq was a secular state, and the women were much better off before Bush invaded.
http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_secularorreligious42803.html
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 09:55:54 AM |
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Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he could go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea that Iraq was
secular, other than it wants Americans to think that because it makes them seem
"more evil" to Christian Americans so they will more approve of the war.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 11:08:08 AM |
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Iraq was so secular that the fundamentalists weren't
able to stop women from getting educated, driving
cars, and having careers.
Bush changed that.
Those women are now fearful for their safety and lives,
and suffering deprivations they'd never before seen.
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 04:16:23 PM |
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Iraq was so secular that the fundamentalists weren't
able to stop women from getting educated, driving
cars, and having careers.
Yet as Christian and full of religion the USA is, women managed to get
educations, drive cars and have careers too.
Bush changed that.
Those women are now fearful for their safety and lives,
and suffering deprivations they'd never before seen.
You mean those that are still alive and not yet raped, tortured and
killed by Bush's military.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 04:35:22 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:16:23 GMT, Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote:
America:
Iraq was so secular that the fundamentalists weren't
able to stop women from getting educated, driving
cars, and having careers.
Yet as Christian and full of religion the USA is, women managed to get
educations, drive cars and have careers too.
Yet not as easily as the men.
Give Bush time, and they'll all be barefoot and spontaneously aborting ...
Bush changed that.
Those women are now fearful for their safety and lives,
and suffering deprivations they'd never before seen.
You mean those that are still alive and not yet raped, tortured and
killed by Bush's military.
Yes.
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| User: "elmer swanson" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 04:36:13 PM |
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Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message news:<40EC0F09.C00297F9@sucks.com>...
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he could go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea that Iraq was
secular,
Saddam's Ba'ath party was secular-Arab nationalist (one of the
founders was a christian), but there was and is an Islamic revival
going on across the whole Muslim world, Iraq included. Saddam
"Islam-upped" the government (banning alcohol, etc.) out of political
expediency.
.... But getting back to the question, what has that to do with the
lack of elctricity in Iraq? Why wasn't there some planning of how to
run Iraq after the invasion? You can't say Iraqis are being ungrateful
because they'd like a little electricity to keep themselves from
sleeplessly sweltering through the night!
other than it wants Americans to think that because it makes them
seem "more evil" to Christian Americans so they will more approve of the war.
.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 05:07:55 PM |
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On 7 Jul 2004 14:36:13 -0700, (elmer swanson) wrote:
Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message news:<40EC0F09.C00297F9@sucks.com>...
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he could go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea that Iraq was
secular,
Saddam's Ba'ath party was secular-Arab nationalist (one of the
founders was a christian), but there was and is an Islamic revival
going on across the whole Muslim world, Iraq included. Saddam
"Islam-upped" the government (banning alcohol, etc.) out of political
expediency.
... But getting back to the question, what has that to do with the
lack of elctricity in Iraq? Why wasn't there some planning of how to
run Iraq after the invasion? You can't say Iraqis are being ungrateful
because they'd like a little electricity to keep themselves from
sleeplessly sweltering through the night!
Good point.
other than it wants Americans to think that because it makes them
seem "more evil" to Christian Americans so they will more approve of the war.
.
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| User: "RoyBoy" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
13 Jul 2004 09:29:27 AM |
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<America> wrote in message
On 7 Jul 2004 14:36:13 -0700, (elmer
swanson) wrote:
Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least
Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US
government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his
speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and
the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and
chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he could
go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea
that Iraq was
secular,
Saddam's Ba'ath party was secular-Arab nationalist (one of the
founders was a christian), but there was and is an Islamic revival
going on across the whole Muslim world, Iraq included. Saddam
"Islam-upped" the government (banning alcohol, etc.) out of
political
expediency.
... But getting back to the question, what has that to do with the
lack of elctricity in Iraq? Why wasn't there some planning of how
to
run Iraq after the invasion? You can't say Iraqis are being
ungrateful
because they'd like a little electricity to keep themselves from
sleeplessly sweltering through the night!
Good point.
Started good, got weak, then good again...
there was a plan, and it was understood
that basic services was a priority to win over the common
Iraqi and to get the country firmly on the road to recovery.
America's enemies also understood that.
I'm no Bush fan, and yeah, they had unrealistic expectations
going into Iraq, their plan was too optimistic and had too
few troops, and didn't anticipate massive looting... and in
that regard electric infrastructure was looted and that did
indeed slow reconstruction efforts.
But overall it isn't a lack of planning keeping electricity from
Iraqi's at this point, its the lack of security.
[snip]
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
13 Jul 2004 03:40:04 PM |
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I'm no Bush fan, and yeah, they had unrealistic expectations
going into Iraq, their plan was too optimistic and had too
few troops, and didn't anticipate massive looting...
Why do you say that? The only expectation is to get contracts for
Halliburton, and that was very successful. They don't care about the
Iraqi people or US soldiers lives. Just the end result, which they
have.
Any president knows they only have at tops, 8 years in that job. So
might as well use the time to help your other business ventures while you
have the power to make laws and change the world in your favor.
But overall it isn't a lack of planning keeping electricity from
Iraqi's at this point, its the lack of security.
No, it is the US military keeping it dark, so they have the advantage with
their night vision, and all the other advantages by taking down the power
to the Iraqi people so they can't fight back.
When someone wants to break into a house, they cut the phone lines and
power first too many times.
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| User: "Camel|Toe" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
13 Jul 2004 03:46:08 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:40:04 GMT, Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote:
I'm no Bush fan, and yeah, they had unrealistic expectations
going into Iraq, their plan was too optimistic and had too
few troops, and didn't anticipate massive looting...
Why do you say that? The only expectation is to get contracts for
Halliburton, and that was very successful. They don't care about the
Iraqi people or US soldiers lives. Just the end result, which they
have.
Plus if your dead, Haliburton will still get the contracts.
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| User: "Bob Barnett" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
13 Jul 2004 09:33:06 AM |
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RoyBoy wrote:
<America> wrote in message
On 7 Jul 2004 14:36:13 -0700, (elmer
swanson) wrote:
Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least
Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US
government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his
speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and
the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and
chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he could
go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea
that Iraq was
secular,
Saddam's Ba'ath party was secular-Arab nationalist (one of the
founders was a christian), but there was and is an Islamic revival
going on across the whole Muslim world, Iraq included. Saddam
"Islam-upped" the government (banning alcohol, etc.) out of
political
expediency.
... But getting back to the question, what has that to do with the
lack of elctricity in Iraq? Why wasn't there some planning of how
to
run Iraq after the invasion? You can't say Iraqis are being
ungrateful
because they'd like a little electricity to keep themselves from
sleeplessly sweltering through the night!
Good point.
Started good, got weak, then good again...
there was a plan, and it was understood
that basic services was a priority to win over the common
Iraqi and to get the country firmly on the road to recovery.
America's enemies also understood that.
I'm no Bush fan, and yeah, they had unrealistic expectations
going into Iraq, their plan was too optimistic and had too
few troops, and didn't anticipate massive looting... and in
that regard electric infrastructure was looted and that did
indeed slow reconstruction efforts.
But overall it isn't a lack of planning keeping electricity from
Iraqi's at this point, its the lack of security.
[snip]
Lack of security is lack of planning
.
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| User: "RoyBoy" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
14 Jul 2004 12:50:09 PM |
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"Bob Barnett" <bob.barnett@charter.net> wrote in message
RoyBoy wrote:
<America> wrote in message
On 7 Jul 2004 14:36:13 -0700,
Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message
Except of course that Iraq was the most secular and least
Muslim of
the Arab countries.
Another one of Bush's lies and the propaganda of the US
government. Ever
notice how many times Saddam talks about God in any of his
speeches or
letters? He put the phrase about God on the Iraqi flag, and
the "new puppet
government" even refused the new British designed Iraqi flag and
chose to keep
the Saddam era flag!
In the interview with Dan Rather, Saddam had to break so he
could
go and pray.
I don't know where or how the US government ever got the idea
that Iraq was
secular,
Saddam's Ba'ath party was secular-Arab nationalist (one of the
founders was a christian), but there was and is an Islamic
revival
going on across the whole Muslim world, Iraq included. Saddam
"Islam-upped" the government (banning alcohol, etc.) out of
political
expediency.
... But getting back to the question, what has that to do with
the
lack of elctricity in Iraq? Why wasn't there some planning of how
to
run Iraq after the invasion? You can't say Iraqis are being
ungrateful
because they'd like a little electricity to keep themselves from
sleeplessly sweltering through the night!
Good point.
Started good, got weak, then good again...
there was a plan, and it was understood
that basic services was a priority to win over the common
Iraqi and to get the country firmly on the road to recovery.
America's enemies also understood that.
I'm no Bush fan, and yeah, they had unrealistic expectations
going into Iraq, their plan was too optimistic and had too
few troops, and didn't anticipate massive looting... and in
that regard electric infrastructure was looted and that did
indeed slow reconstruction efforts.
But overall it isn't a lack of planning keeping electricity from
Iraqi's at this point, its the lack of security.
[snip]
Lack of security is lack of planning
Partially. Better planning would have mitigated security
problems, but it wouldn't have solved them. Securing
a country isn't easy; nor can it be effective until a reliable
domestic intelligence agency can be developed...
and that takes time to create and implement,
regardless of planning quality.
.
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:14:41 AM |
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On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:52:46 GMT, "Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Proud of that, are you?
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| User: "Truth" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 09:58:39 AM |
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Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Many Americans say that too. And the rest of the world most certainly says
that every single day in massive protests around the world.
Bush's recent trip to Ireland was a real disaster. That is why the mainstream
US press didn't even mention it at all.
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| User: "KK" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:32:49 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:14:41 -0400, America wrote:
Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Many Iraqis wipe their ***** with their hand and screw goats.
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| User: "Dont Clayton And Then Drive!" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 07:27:17 PM |
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"KK" <remove_KK_@furburger.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.07.12.32.43.821838@furburger.net...
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:14:41 -0400, America wrote:
Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Many Iraqis wipe their ***** with their hand and screw goats.
Your name is missing a K!
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 11:10:13 AM |
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"Rommel" <Nobody@nothere.net> wrote:
I say let Saddam and the muslims back in power and see how fast
they want the US back.
Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Proud of that, are you?
Of course you are: you're the bushkultie.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 08:20:05 AM |
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KK wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:14:41 -0400, America wrote:
Many Iraqis say that Bush is worse than Saddam.
Many Iraqis wipe their ***** with their hand and screw goats.
And you know this how ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "America" |
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| Title: Re: Iraqis STILL without electricity!! |
07 Jul 2004 11:11:03 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:20:05 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
KK wrote:
Many Iraqis wipe their ***** with their hand and screw goats.
And you know this how ?
He's the goat who gives them a hand.
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