"vernon" <there@there> wrote in message
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"Joe King" <jeffile@pacbell.net> wrote in message
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"vernon" <there@there> wrote in message
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"wisker" <wiskey@rumhoop.com> wrote in message
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First of all, God warned Adam that if he disobeyed then he would
die.It was a warning...just as you would warn your kid of the danger
of the nearby cliff.That if they fell off the cliff they would die.

Why did disobedience result in death...

In short...without God we die.

God wanted to create freewill in man. The only way is to give him
choice. God wanted man to not just do everything He wanted him to
do...but wanted him to choose to do it. He could have left Adam to
just obey without choice but when choosing to obey, Adam gets a much
closer relationship with God.A true son of God.

Whatever Adam would have done, all of his children would have done
the same thing.That's why we inherit the consequences of his choice.
If you or I had been in the same position as Adam we would have made
the same choice.

But God loved us so much,[He could have turned away and left us with
the consequences of our choice,and He would have been right and just
to do so] but He loves us with all of His heart...so He gave us a way
back.And it cost Him dearly.

Evil is supposed to be eliminated after the return of Christ. One
does not have a choice between good and evil once you remove evil. If
there is no choice there is no free will.

Those who are there will have free will to worship in many ways and
communicate in many ways.

If one doesn't have a choice then one doesn't have free will. Free will
would allow the person to worship or not to worship.

If one believes the biblical view of events then one has to wonder how
the angels who are in the realm of God could fall to sin. Assuming God
didn't create sin must mean Satan created sin. Satan creating sin is
further complicated by the biblical ascertion that all things were
created by God. If a created entity (angels) have the ability to create
a state of being (sin) which is separate from the will of God then
logic would suggest even after God eliminates sin that it could be again
recreated by angels or man. Men are supposed to be a greater creation
than angels so, to me, even after entering heaven, one still will be
able to fall into the state of sin. Elimination of free will would mean
we are reduced to the level of animals who have no free will but are
guided strictly by instinct.

Sin is disobedience.
People have a choice unless God intervenes, then they have a choice on
how to serve.

And after Christ's return when there is no more Satan or sin what happens?
One doesn't have free will unless there are options. You are sayin we
will have a choice on how to serve (which however is not biblical) but
with free will one would have the option to serve or not to serve. Hence
the possibility for disobedience (sin).

Humans were positioned just a little below angels and at God's will move
to just above the level of angels.

When God created man, He created them above angels. Man has never been
below angels. There are some who profess this is why Satan rebelled
against God.

Satan "creating" sin. Mere disobedience is not a creating event.

Hate, envy and greed are only emotions but those emotions can create
events.

You do not have free will now. If you think you do, stand on the floor
and jump higher than your head.

Have you ever seen someone do a flip?

I didn't turn your head below your feet. I said jump higher than your
head. How long have you had this contextual English problem?you'

You're correct, I can't jump higher than my head as I have medical
problems which preclude such an action. Contexual English problem? I
believe you mean what 'you meant' rather than contextual.

Someone standing six feet tall who high jumps six feet, six inches has
jumped higher than his head. Oh, I'm pretty sure I know what you meant but
are you sure you are asking what you meant.

That assumes that you know which end is your head and that it located
above your shoulders, not your knees.

I'm sorry for you. I didn't realize such a genetic disorder was in
existence. Your family reunions must be a strange occurrance. Sort of
like that Mexiacn family in which many family members have hair
completely covering their bodies.

Your posts indicate a logical butt position of the head.

You probably can't run 50 miles an hour either.

You are confusing free will with wanting. One can chose to try to run
50 mph but that doesn't mean he can do it.

Those who are God's CHOOSE to make every "attempt" at obedience. Full
obedience is an impossibility for humans.

You are making absolutely no sense.

God decided that Adam's action would have consequences. I am not
saying I fully agree with God or understan d His motives, but then it
is not part of my case that God takes my adivce on everything He does.

"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote

Malcolm wrote:

Self-replicating processes can have disproportionate effects. Sin
multiplies.

That would mean that people are being punished for the sin of Adam and
that god either cannot or will not prevent it. So which is it?

And a human father would have no choice. How about god, does he have a
choice. If so he is not loving is he? Try responding to the question
this time.

This boils down to. Why didn't God make me a brain in a bottle and dose me
with hallucinogenic drugs?

Intutitvely we feel that the brian in abottle loses something, though you
can't quite put your finger on it.

God decided that Adam's action would have consequences. I am not saying I
fully agree with God or understan d His motives, but then it is not part of
my case that God takes my adivce on everything He does.