| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
17 Oct 2005 12:56:51 PM |
| Object: |
Is atheism a religion? |
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
.
|
|
| User: "fresh_air" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 11:24:43 PM |
|
|
<harddrivecleaner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all,
Yes, atheism is a religion, but not in a general way.
Here you don't have to follow 'sie orders', no one
iz givin 'zie orders', there is no organization, no
leaders, no hierarchy, no members... nothing.
Nothing but explicit sex, 'freedom', 'humanity'
and ABOVE all of those; 'sie science'!
I DARE you contradict 'sie science'! Try, and
then you will see WHO atheists think their God
really IS; sie scientist! In white coat...
(sie ***** mode on):
'It is sie question that drives us Oen...'
'Whay iz zis thing zis way? O, Ich muss find out,
yes, ja, ja... sie question!'
'Zo, after zomtime spent in zie 'laboratorie', we have
come to a konkluzion, zhat zis thing iz working zis
way, cause we have 'found' out, zhat zis little thing
goes here, and then, zee here (it is quite magnificent),
you have zis two thingz zhat you put hier, ja, shcneller,
und dann was hatst du ist ein kartoffel mit deinem sperma
spritzen!' JA! Schneller!
'Follow zie orderz of zie nature, cause we, sie scientists
have found an 'answer' of how zis beautiful planet iz
working... yes, ja, ja... izn't it marvelous?'
'Sie natural order, ja, iz zomthing we mussen follow,
zhose of you who don't agree can be obliterated any
time wiz zis beautiful, maginificant zhing we zientists
have invented (and it all started with a light bulb!), and
it is called; an atomic bomb. Not an atomic BONG (all
rights reserved), but BOMB! Sie thing zhat goes puff!
Ja? JA? Natuerlich! Und dann wir haben... zih thing here,
just prezz zis button hier, ja... guuut... und dan wir haben
siz thig here go PUFF! It is magnificent! Sehen sie die
mushroom? Ja... WE kontroll sie Earth!'
Ja, science!
Hurting mankind more than helping it since 0 AD!
Enjoy your meal!
('taking a *****' mode off!)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Richo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 06:44:19 PM |
|
|
fresh_air wrote:
<harddrivecleaner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all,
Yes, atheism is a religion, but not in a general way.
Yes, a steam Locomotive is a variety of ice cream, but not in a general
way.
Democracy is a green leafy vegatable - just not in the same way as
spinach.
A dog is a kind of shell fish - just in a different way.
Up is down, black is white, War is peace, Love is hate.
Anything means anything.
Which of course means Nothing means anything.
So why use words?
If nothing means anything why not do yourself and the world a big
favour and shut-the-*****-up.
Mark.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "William T. Goat" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 05:19:11 PM |
|
|
fresh_air wrote:
<harddrivecleaner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all,
Yes, atheism is a religion, but not in a general way.
Here you don't have to follow 'sie orders', no one
iz givin 'zie orders', there is no organization, no
leaders, no hierarchy, no members... nothing.
Nothing but explicit sex, 'freedom', 'humanity'
and ABOVE all of those; 'sie science'!
Why do you keep talking about science? Atheism is not based on science.
Many people from many different religions are scientists. Isaac Newton
was a Christian. Einstein was Jewish.
If you hate science, go to a science newsgroup and complain there. If
you hate satanists, go to alt.satanism and complain there. If you hate
explicit sex, go to alt.sex.stories and complain there.
Atheism has nothing to do with any of your complaints. We simply don't
believe in god. You are inventing fictions about us.
Nobody here is trying to tell you to stop believing in god. Nobody here
is trying to convert you. YOU came to US, with your fictions about
atheists.
We've heard these prejudices hundreds of times before, from hundreds of
religious people. Somebody got tired of answering the same questions
over and over again, and created this website:
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
It answers the questions you keep asking us. Reading that website will
save you some time, and it won't call you names.
--Billy
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Richo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 06:38:45 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods.
Have you tried laughing in ther face?
So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
I think its stupid.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
A religion is a system of beliefs and practices that define a persons
relationship to the divine.
For example christianity has many basic tenents of belief - the
nicean(sp?) creed being the basics accepted by most christian churches.
They also have practices - prayer, worship.
Atheist do not hold a set of beliefs in common, we dont follow a set of
rituals or practices in common.
QED.
Mark.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:08:21 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Atheism itself is not a religion, but an atheist may have a
religion....after all, people have thought up lots of supernatural
agents which are not called god.
Religion is a special kind of belief, it's not just how one sees the
world.
Jim
.
|
|
|
| User: "Craig Pennington" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:50:18 PM |
|
|
Quoth J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm>:
harddrivecleaner@yahoo.com wrote:
[snip]
... I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Atheism itself is not a religion, but an atheist may have a
religion....after all, people have thought up lots of supernatural
agents which are not called god.
Religion is a special kind of belief, it's not just how one sees the
world.
The same argument also applies to generic theism -- it isn't a religion
in-and-of itself. Generally, the theist who uses this argument is
trying to equate the jusifiability of their god belief (and often other
god beliefs) and the justifiability of atheism. The use of the word
'religion' is a distraction from this, and should be pointed out as
such.
Cheers,
Craig
--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law:
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently
advanced.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 10:35:46 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
I always counter these snarling morions by admitting it.
Yes, Atheism IS a religion!
In fact, it is the only true religion.
So there.
Why is it true? Because there is no god.
And I am very willing and capable of arguing
that point, the foundation of the Atheist religion.
Not only then, Am I an Atheist, and thus religious,
I am militant about it and evangelistic about it too.
After all, is it not a duty to speak truth and destroy
myths and errors that make mankind foolish and ignorant and
stupid?
I am never apologistic about that when faced with these
morons, and am in fact, downright, aggressively in-your-face
about it.
Unfortunately I do this mainly over the net so I never
get a chance to watch their faces when I take them on
toe-to-toe and pound them to mincemeat.
****************
Part 1
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and conciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed for
the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and
Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually logically
derivable from the claimed attribute of omnipotence and
so aren't not truely independent attributes, and may be
considered special aspects of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the only
such god, that he is is immortal and that god has always
existed that are not important for this discussion and for
now, can be ignored. They are secondary arguments and in
no way are foundational or truely necessary, except those
that can be logically derived from the attributes listed
above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a definition
not for a particular god, but an entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here. Christianity
claims one may attain salvation only through Jesus, Islam
claims the Christian dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous. Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a personal,
creator, omni-everything god. I have coined a term,
The Grand God of Grand Theologies for this sort of god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have adopted this
class of god as their basic attributes concerning the nature
of god. But it is important to remember here that what is
being discussed here is a class of gods, not particular gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand Theologies
holding to this basic class of god as their basic
definitions of what god is at god's most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it collapses
rather easily into internal self contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by Epicurus
in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes back
to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is still popular,
and is championed most notably today by Alvin Plantinga.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do evil.
Ability to do evil is less evil than lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature incapable
of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature, this good
nature is not allowed to cound againts god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count against
man's free will than it does for god's free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will and god
does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free will, thus
free will is not a true necessity at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and can give
man a god like free will and a god like good nature
incapable of moral evil, god must do so or god is not
moral, not omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can have
a god like free will and a god like good nature.
Either way, free will cannot explain away the existance
of evil. This free will defense then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all in
the Universe and he knows the future of the Universe
and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that in 13 billion
years this Universe will have a man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and damned, God
will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present state will
have a John Smith, god may then contemplate the future state
of Smith and decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a specific
personal
and will choice made solely by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely because of a choice
made by god. In fact all moral evil done by creations of god
will be evil and do evil only because of personal and willful
creations of god allowing evil acts to be done, by direct
decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient creator god, it
is
solely and only because god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal choices of god, god
then is not as defined, omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a Universe cannot
have
any free will, not even in principle. A Universe with a god
that creates all and knows all precludes free will for all
beings god creates in the strongest possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is incoherent
and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this Grand God,
has been defined here with as few terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defence, free will is fatally flawed.
God's good nature and free will doom claims free
will makes evil necessary for man to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further doom claims of
god's omnibenevolence and man's free will Free will cannot
exist for man. All evil is the direct and knowing creation
of god contradicting claims of omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible, free will
cannot be a good quality, much less neccesary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims and viability
of an entire class of possible gods, all secondary and tertiary
claims for such a god of this class also fail, as do dogmas or
secondary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined, specific gods
cannot, nor can claims such as this or that Grand God sent this
or that relevation to man or some prophet.
***********
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "Richo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 07:19:08 AM |
|
|
wbarwell wrote:
harddrivecleaner@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
I always counter these snarling morions by admitting it.
I dont "admit" falsehoods.
Yes, Atheism IS a religion!
In fact, it is the only true religion.
So there.
Why is it true? Because there is no god.
It is true that London is the capitol of England.
That doesnt make saying "London is the capitol of England" a religion.
A religion is not something that is true - so the truth of atheism is
irrelavent to it being a religion.
QED.
A religion is a whole system of belief and *practice* that defines a
persons reationship to the divine - or to what the person holds most
sacred.
Now it is possible to have a religion - one element of which is
disbelief in gods - an atheistic religion - thats entirely feasible -
but a single idea or belief or position does not a religion make.
Mark.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:36:54 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Atheism is an opinion on religion and as such, qualifies as something
the government may not constitutionally support or promote - or
criticize or deny.
But that's all it is.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Katt" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 02:29:05 PM |
|
|
I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Okay. So let me put it concisely: 'Atheism' isn't a 'religion' -- it's
merely a position held *in regard to a religious issue*.
'Religious' people strenuously insist -- as one of the effects of the
mind-virus that infects them on the basis of a constitutional weakness --
that they are party to some kind of 'revealed truth'. Where their particular
religion makes them assert 'theistic' beliefs of some kind, the a-theist
merely points out that there are insufficient grounds for such assertions,
and that the believer's 'faith' is either 'in excess of the facts' or
actually *contradictory* to them.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
'Faith' in the religious sense is the real issue here -- i.e. the
'triumphant' and, within its own orbit, socially sanctioned and admired
persistence of a given belief *in the face of contradicting evidence that by
any rational standard ought to cause it to be abandoned*.
By this measure, 'atheism' will become a 'religion' on the day that Father
Zeus of the Aegis -- the Olympian, cloud gatherer, Lord of Hera, god of the
thunderbolt and sky dweller -- manifests himself for purposes of
wide-ranging interview before the world's TV cameras in Hyde Park ... and
alt.atheism's own Christopher A. Lee insists in this very forum that *it
can't possibly have happened*, that *there are no gods*, and that *no-one
will ever be able to prove that Zeus exists*...
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Don't kid yourself, sonny.
Katt.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:29:47 PM |
|
|
Atheism is a religion?
Maybe it is, lets look up the meaning of the word.
My Dutch dictionary says:
1 dogmatics/religious doctrine.
Hm. Some of us are very dogmatic. so could be.
But for a real doctrine it is pretty slim, isn't it?
2. Divine worship.
Hardly
3. Church comunity
Hell no
And to hell with the dictionary too
In effect real religions have something totaly different in common:
Rites
Atheism has no rites,
therefor it isn't a religion.
We could make up some though, in order to become one:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robi" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:38:40 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Atheism is a religion?
Maybe it is, lets look up the meaning of the word.
My Dutch dictionary says:
1 dogmatics/religious doctrine.
Hm. Some of us are very dogmatic. so could be.
But for a real doctrine it is pretty slim, isn't it?
2. Divine worship.
Hardly
3. Church comunity
Hell no
And to hell with the dictionary too
In effect real religions have something totaly different in common:
Rites
Atheism has no rites,
therefor it isn't a religion.
We could make up some though, in order to become one:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
I'm sure we could invent some atheist rites. Could be fun.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:40:32 PM |
|
|
"Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129574320.350072.154660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
pbamvv@worldonline.nl wrote:
Atheism is a religion?
Maybe it is, lets look up the meaning of the word.
My Dutch dictionary says:
1 dogmatics/religious doctrine.
Hm. Some of us are very dogmatic. so could be.
But for a real doctrine it is pretty slim, isn't it?
2. Divine worship.
Hardly
3. Church comunity
Hell no
And to hell with the dictionary too
In effect real religions have something totaly different in common:
Rites
Atheism has no rites,
therefor it isn't a religion.
We could make up some though, in order to become one:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
I'm sure we could invent some atheist rites. Could be fun.
I thought we already had at least one - Watching "Life of Brian" on Good
Friday. Or would that be considered more of a tradition? ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Adam Grinter" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 01:38:20 AM |
|
|
"Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129574320.350072.154660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I'm sure we could invent some atheist rites. Could be fun.
Yes! Then we can persecute any atheists who wanted the rites to be slightly
different from the ones we Proper Atheists choose, or who refuse to practise
them the "right" way.
Within weeks we could have a full-on schism, split into warring factions and
start slaughtering each other.
Count me in.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 04:27:18 AM |
|
|
"Adam Grinter" <agrinter@rpk.com.au> wrote in
news:4354985c$1_2@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com:
"Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129574320.350072.154660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I'm sure we could invent some atheist rites. Could be fun.
Yes! Then we can persecute any atheists who wanted the rites to be
slightly different from the ones we Proper Atheists choose, or who
refuse to practise them the "right" way.
Within weeks we could have a full-on schism, split into warring
factions and start slaughtering each other.
Count me in.
Judean Peoples Atheist Front?
Splitters.
Jesus!
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
19 Oct 2005 09:27:42 AM |
|
|
"Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129574320.350072.154660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
pbamvv@worldonline.nl wrote:
Atheism is a religion?
Maybe it is, lets look up the meaning of the word.
My Dutch dictionary says:
1 dogmatics/religious doctrine.
Hm. Some of us are very dogmatic. so could be.
But for a real doctrine it is pretty slim, isn't it?
2. Divine worship.
Hardly
3. Church comunity
Hell no
And to hell with the dictionary too
In effect real religions have something totaly different in common:
Rites
Atheism has no rites,
therefor it isn't a religion.
We could make up some though, in order to become one:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
I'm sure we could invent some atheist rites. Could be fun.
would someone have to pen an 'unholy' book?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
19 Oct 2005 12:11:07 PM |
|
|
No, we just past some old stuff together, end here and there we make a
typing error, just for fun.
A little bit of Darwin, a little bit of NIetsche, the odd quote from
Marx.
the book of AQOTM, the book of Atheist numbers. excerpts from Atheist
websites.
My I never got to finish the Gospel of Peter, Should go back and work
on that.
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
18 Oct 2005 12:39:49 PM |
|
|
Well I have already a chant
I always start to laugh when my wife acts jealous, which encourages her
to keep doing it.
She says " You have Pujing maak maak" meaninng "you have many (other)
women"
I answer in my best Thai: "Mai mie, mai mie" (don't have, dont't have,
or also: There is no, There is no)
Now Thai is a tone language which makes "Mai mie, mai mie" sound like
the horn of an ambulance.
So if we skip the word God from "There is no God"
There'\s our hymne: "Mai mie, Mai mie, Mai mie"
But act will we carry out during the chant.
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jos Flachs - skip the aa" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
21 Oct 2005 07:43:23 AM |
|
|
On 18 Oct 2005 10:39:49 -0700, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Well I have already a chant
I always start to laugh when my wife acts jealous, which encourages her
to keep doing it.
She says " You have Pujing maak maak" meaninng "you have many (other)
women"
I answer in my best Thai: "Mai mie, mai mie" (don't have, dont't have,
or also: There is no, There is no)
Now Thai is a tone language which makes "Mai mie, mai mie" sound like
the horn of an ambulance.
So if we skip the word God from "There is no God"
There'\s our hymne: "Mai mie, Mai mie, Mai mie"
But act will we carry out during the chant.
Think about it
5555555!!!!!! Pom poot passah thai padee padee, teh ki-en, mai dai.
Kleine wereld, nietwaar?
==========================================================
Jos Flachs in: Krungthep Mahanakhon Bovorn Rattanakorsin Mahinthara
Ayutthaya Mahadilokpop Noparat Ratchathani Burirom
Udom Ratchanivej Mahasathan Amornpiman Avatarnsathit
Sakkathattiya A-visnukarmpasit
also known as: Bangkok, Thailand
==========================================================
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
21 Oct 2005 08:36:55 AM |
|
|
5555555!!!!!! Pom poot passah thai padee padee, teh ki-en, mai dai.
Kleine wereld, nietwaar
My darling can write in Dutch though!
She is even certified!
For the rest of us:
Jos said:
"Hahahahahahaha!!!!!! I can speak Thai, but I can't write it.|
Anyway Jos, any idea for Atheist rites??
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
19 Oct 2005 12:53:01 AM |
|
|
In article <1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
Atheism is lack of belief in gods. That's all it is. It seems to have a
religion one needs some sort of a belief system, dogma, it you will, an
organization, and usually some rituals.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "The dog ate my deity" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 07:02:37 PM |
|
|
Into alt.atheism shot and breathlessly
exclaimed:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
Atheism isn't even a belief system, though I suspect this is what the
people who claim it is a religion are really driving at. Lying theists
like to use sloppy language. The reason behind the claim is an attempt
to falsify a level playing field between their system of beliefs, and
the process of rational thinking. They mostly get away with claiming
that there is no more justification for not believing in God than
there is for doing so by putting words into the mouths and thoughts
into the heads of 'atheists' who are in reality as totally fictitious
as their alleged creator.
It is important when debating these idiots to realise that they are
addicted to the process of imagining things and that, like all addicts
they live inside the world of their own addiction where only the
addiction makes sense to them. It also means that the only way they
can deal with alternative realities is to project the values of their
addict-world onto the reality they are trying to deal with.
------------------------------------------------
"If iron chariots make people immune to God (Judges 1:19), why do Christians drive cars?"
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yow" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 09:27:49 PM |
|
|
So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Here is a reasonable summary of the topic,
which I suppose is a FAQ, but here tis:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/atheism.html
Yow
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 01:43:24 PM |
|
|
On 17 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0700, wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
They're being stupid, and expanding the word into meaninglessness.
Because it's no more a religion than its exact equivalent of not
believing in leprechauns.
The problem is the mental block even the most liberal theist usually
has: an inability to grasp that not everybody sees his deity in the
same light he does.
Virtually all theists and even many atheists dismiss explanations that
you see "God" as merely somebody else's religious belief, not as
something that could or could not exist, as ridiculous.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
No church, no worship, no supplication. It's not a motivation or
justification for anything.
It's not even a description for what we are,
Just a demographic label for what we aren't, that only has any real
meaning in the specific context of the missing attribute.
Thanks-
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
19 Oct 2005 12:56:57 PM |
|
|
On 17 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0700, wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
A lack of theos/theism isn't a religion no matter how much the deluded
and/or ignorant keep trotting out that beaten-to-component-atoms
'horse.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ben" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
19 Oct 2005 02:09:21 PM |
|
|
stoney wrote:
On 17 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0700, wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
A lack of theos/theism isn't a religion no matter how much the deluded
and/or ignorant keep trotting out that beaten-to-component-atoms
'horse.'
Of course you could treat it like one: cease questioning, insult others
for their beliefs, evangele, fetishize the possiblity that you're wrong,
etc. But where's the fun in that?
Ben
--
Squirting rubbing alcohol up your
nose is rather unpleasant.
-Sanford, ABSFG
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
20 Oct 2005 11:23:25 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:09:21 GMT, Ben <eggplantontoast@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
stoney wrote:
On 17 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0700, wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
A lack of theos/theism isn't a religion no matter how much the deluded
and/or ignorant keep trotting out that beaten-to-component-atoms
'horse.'
Of course you could treat it like one: cease questioning, insult others
for their beliefs, evangele, fetishize the possiblity that you're wrong,
etc. But where's the fun in that?
So? Provide a clear and concise definition for a g-o-d as well as
objective supporting evidence for it as well as dealing with any
broken logic and then there will be something to look for or examine.
What gets very tiresome is all the toddler tricks theists try to pull.
Its the same stuff young ones drag out on the topic of Santa Claus.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "cloim" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 07:09:02 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:56:51 -0700, harddrivecleaner wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods.
<snip>
It is a position relative to a religious belief. It is
not a religion. It can be part of a religion. Atheistic religions do exist.
Would it be accurate to state that a Christians religion is theism?
An atheist is someone whose world-view does not incorporate the existence
of any form of deity. If I have a religion, it would be my world-view.
That is, my view of how things are, where they came from, how they work,
and how people should behave, etc, would be my religion.
That being the case, atheism is essentially irrelevant to my
religion. It defines nothing, and requires nothing. Within my world-view,
"atheism" is meaningless.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ferrous Patella" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 06:01:47 PM |
|
|
news:1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com by :
Hi all,
Sorry about the provocative title, but now that I have
your attention, here is my problem. I know implicitly
as an atheist that atheism isn't a religion but
unfortunately I still encounter periodically religious
dolts (even "liberal" theists who dislike organized
religion) who try to use this line "atheism is a religion"
to condemn my rejection of any gods. So I am looking
to learn what other atheists think on this matter.
Now, having studied anthropology I know that academics
who have thought seriously about what a religion is
have specified a number of characteristics that
any thing must have to be called a religion, of which
atheism has very few if any. However I am curious
what the conscensus is here on Usenet on what
the characteristics are of religions that all
religions have -- even Taoism, animism, native
American beliefs, Shintoism, capitalism :), and all the
other religions -- which atheism does not have.
I would tell you what my response typically is
to theists but this would influence your answers.
Thanks-
Atheist no more make up a religion than Democrats make up a political
party.
--
Ferrous Patella (Homo gerardii)
T.A., Philosophy Lab
University of Ediacara
Å vite hva man ikke vet,
er også en slags allvitenhet.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Katt" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism a religion? |
17 Oct 2005 06:39:45 PM |
|
|
"Ferrous Patella" <mail125797@pop.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96F2A2D603A1Amail125797popnet@199.45.49.11...
news:1129571811.093926.250600@f14g2000cwb.
Atheist[s] no more make up a religion than Democrats make up a political
party.
Or:
An atheist's rejection of theism is no more 'a religion' than a
creationist's rejection of evolution is 'a science'...
Katt.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
