| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
| Date: |
29 Jun 2004 11:21:43 PM |
| Object: |
Is atheism anti-semitic? |
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
--
RB
aa#2187
.
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| User: "Raven" |
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| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
05 Jul 2004 01:58:43 AM |
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"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message ?<news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>:
Is atheism anti-semitic?
If it were, that would come as a great suprise to members of the Society
for Humanistic Judaism, who keep the old traditional customs and holidays,
minus any worship of a deity. In short, they practice atheistic Judaism.
See <http://www.shj.org> or <http://www.teleport.com/~hellman>.
Orthodox Jews recognize atheistic Jews as being members of the Jewish people.
.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
05 Jul 2004 05:52:34 AM |
|
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"Raven" <raven@solaria.sol.net> wrote in message
news:7d8764ba.0407042258.3cb03424@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
?<news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>:
Is atheism anti-semitic?
If it were, that would come as a great suprise to members of the Society
for Humanistic Judaism, who keep the old traditional customs and holidays,
minus any worship of a deity. In short, they practice atheistic Judaism.
See <http://www.shj.org> or <http://www.teleport.com/~hellman>.
Orthodox Jews recognize atheistic Jews as being members of the Jewish
people
I want to thank you for posting these links. This is very much the kind of
organization I have been trying to find and to become invovled with lately.
.
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| User: "Raven" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
05 Jul 2004 09:51:18 PM |
|
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"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<SpaGc.124408$tH1.4572961@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Raven" <raven@solaria.sol.net> wrote in message
news:7d8764ba.0407042258.3cb03424@posting.google.com...
... Society for Humanistic Judaism, who keep the old traditional customs
and holidays, minus any worship of a deity. ...
See <http://www.shj.org> or <http://www.teleport.com/~hellman>. ...
I want to thank you for posting these links. This is very much the kind of
organization I have been trying to find and to become invovled with lately.
You're very welcome. Good luck in finding and joining a group close to you.
.
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| User: "Raven" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
05 Jul 2004 10:26:27 PM |
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Oh, and Fester, having seen your debte with Roy Jose Lorr, I think
you might also enjoy some other links about (Religious) Humanism:
What is Humanism? http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html
Humanism FAQ: http://www.progressiveliving.org/humanism_faq.htm
History of Humanism: http://www.atheism.org/~godlessheathen/Humanism.html
OCRT - Humanism: http://www.religioustolerance.org/humanism.htm
About.com - Humanism: http://atheism.about.com/od/abouthumanism/
Religion Online - Humanism: http://library.thinkquest.org/26756/humanism/
American Humanist Association: http://www.americanhumanist.org/index.html
Institute for Humanist Studies: http://humaniststudies.org/
(other Humanist organizations): http://www.humanists.net
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/orgs.html
The Secular Web: http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml
(has a library of articles and essays on atheistic/agnostic/skeptical thought)
Skeptic Tank (text archive): http://www.skepticfiles.org/index.htm
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
05 Jul 2004 03:34:57 PM |
|
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"Raven" <raven@solaria.sol.net> wrote in message
news:7d8764ba.0407042258.3cb03424@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
?<news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>:
Is atheism anti-semitic?
If it were, that would come as a great suprise to members of the Society
for Humanistic Judaism, who keep the old traditional customs and holidays,
minus any worship of a deity. In short, they practice atheistic Judaism.
See <http://www.shj.org> or <http://www.teleport.com/~hellman>.
Orthodox Jews recognize atheistic Jews as being members of the Jewish
people.
But they do not recognize them as following any sort of Judaism.
Same with the so-called Jews for Jesus.
if any of these people were actually Jews instead of Baptists pretending
they are Jews, they would be recognized as Jews, but not practicing Judaism.
Susan
.
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| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
01 Jul 2004 10:57:58 AM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
jwk
.
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 05:02:58 PM |
|
|
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists who tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the nature of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the rest. All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in most other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as prejudiced
as theists.
.
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| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
08 Jul 2004 02:11:08 PM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists who tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the nature of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the rest. All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in most other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
jwk
.
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| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
08 Jul 2004 02:12:10 PM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists who tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the nature of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the rest. All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in most other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
jwk
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
08 Jul 2004 05:38:25 PM |
|
|
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407081112.eef72ad@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by
what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists who
tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the nature
of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the rest.
All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be
irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I
interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in most
other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as
prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
True enough, as far as flaming fundy trolls go, and I don't fault people for
doing so. But I have noticed a bothersome attitued of many to express their
feelings of superiority, as though to be religious menas to be stupid, or to
be irrational in all things.
.
|
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| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
10 Jul 2004 07:44:43 PM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<B1kHc.140735$tH1.5034551@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407081112.eef72ad@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by
what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists who
tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the nature
of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the rest.
All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be
irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I
interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in most
other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as
prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
True enough, as far as flaming fundy trolls go, and I don't fault people for
doing so. But I have noticed a bothersome attitued of many to express their
feelings of superiority, as though to be religious menas to be stupid, or to
be irrational in all things.
Sorry about that. It is irrational to believe in faries, ghosts, and
gods, but I apologize for letting it come through as a feeling of
superiority. :)
jwk
.
|
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
11 Jul 2004 05:47:27 AM |
|
|
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407101644.3a80d80b@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<B1kHc.140735$tH1.5034551@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407081112.eef72ad@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out
for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the
comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by
what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists
who
tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the
nature
of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the
rest.
All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be
irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I
interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in
most
other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as
prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
True enough, as far as flaming fundy trolls go, and I don't fault people
for
doing so. But I have noticed a bothersome attitued of many to express
their
feelings of superiority, as though to be religious menas to be stupid,
or to
be irrational in all things.
Sorry about that. It is irrational to believe in faries, ghosts, and
gods, but I apologize for letting it come through as a feeling of
superiority. :)
Nice of you to apologie, but I didn't intend the comment as a personal
accusation. I hvaen't kept track of who I think does this and who doesn't.
Its just an impression I've gotten from having read many threads over
several years. In some cases, I've read threads where this is blatantly the
case, in others it is apparent but more subtely expressed. For my own part,
I've felt obliged to be a little sensitive on this score. I have because
everyone else I know is not an atheist and I hate to see the ones I love or
like insulted. I also think that its a tendency that we as a group would do
well to be aware of, if we are to try to have influence with the rest of
society (such as if we want a measure of popular support for going against
certain separation issues). Finally, I dislike bigotry in all its forms and
don't like to see our frustration over what others do to us be transformed
into our own backlash against those who don't deserve it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "jwk" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
11 Jul 2004 03:12:47 PM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<3V8Ic.111451$wH4.6288449@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407101644.3a80d80b@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<B1kHc.140735$tH1.5034551@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407081112.eef72ad@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism out
for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the
comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to go by
what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of atheists
who
tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in the
nature
of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the
rest.
All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be
irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people I
interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational in
most
other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as
prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the headers
when they start talking about us.
True enough, as far as flaming fundy trolls go, and I don't fault people
for
doing so. But I have noticed a bothersome attitued of many to express
their
feelings of superiority, as though to be religious menas to be stupid,
or to
be irrational in all things.
Sorry about that. It is irrational to believe in faries, ghosts, and
gods, but I apologize for letting it come through as a feeling of
superiority. :)
Nice of you to apologie, but I didn't intend the comment as a personal
accusation. I hvaen't kept track of who I think does this and who doesn't.
Its just an impression I've gotten from having read many threads over
several years. In some cases, I've read threads where this is blatantly the
case, in others it is apparent but more subtely expressed. For my own part,
I've felt obliged to be a little sensitive on this score. I have because
everyone else I know is not an atheist and I hate to see the ones I love or
like insulted. I also think that its a tendency that we as a group would do
well to be aware of, if we are to try to have influence with the rest of
society (such as if we want a measure of popular support for going against
certain separation issues). Finally, I dislike bigotry in all its forms and
don't like to see our frustration over what others do to us be transformed
into our own backlash against those who don't deserve it.
The problem here is that you confuse what you read here with the real
world. We can blow off steam online by taking positions that might be
too rude (or dangerous) to take in the real world.
Xians like to push atheists around. They do so both verbally and
physically and they keep attempting to do it legally. An *unbiased
person couldn't blame us for taking an attitude in the one place where
we are safe to do so. *You however decide that we aren't being fair
and chastise us. Excuse me for not seeing your point of view.
jwk
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
11 Jul 2004 04:13:55 PM |
|
|
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407111212.2b5001f8@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<3V8Ic.111451$wH4.6288449@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407101644.3a80d80b@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<B1kHc.140735$tH1.5034551@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407081112.eef72ad@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<mYkFc.94222$2o2.5581656@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"jwk" <jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6f5ba32.0407010757.57dc81f7@posting.google.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in
message
news:<rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com>...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Hardly. After all it is not like an atheist singles Judaism
out
for
their disbelief.
Take an example. A Frenchman declares "all Americans are
merde".
Since some Americans are jewish does that make his statement
anti-semetic? Of course not.
Good start.
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my
observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for
his
religion. We understand that social factors such as
upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for
being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
You generalizations about atheism are hardly evident from the
comments I
read on AA. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so I have to
go by
what I
read here or learn more generally. I see an awful lot of
atheists
who
tend
to make unfair generatlizations about theists. Mostly its in
the
nature
of
extrapolating irrationality in one aspect of their lives to the
rest.
All
theists posses what I (and I think you as well) consider to be
irrational
beliefs about gawds or souls or pitchforks, etc. Of the people
I
interact
with in my day-to-day life I can say that I find them rational
in
most
other
respects. I see atheists (at least in AA) as being every bit as
prejudiced
as theists.
AA is our place. Theists come here looking for fights and we
oblige.
I wouldn't expect decent treatment if I stood in a church and
pissed
on the statue of christ. You shouldn't expect us to treat
interlopers
in AA nicely. You don't have to be politically correct when you
are
at home and this is our home. Not the theists. If they don't
want to
be treated like trash, they just need to leave AA out of the
headers
when they start talking about us.
True enough, as far as flaming fundy trolls go, and I don't fault
people
for
doing so. But I have noticed a bothersome attitued of many to
express
their
feelings of superiority, as though to be religious menas to be
stupid,
or to
be irrational in all things.
Sorry about that. It is irrational to believe in faries, ghosts, and
gods, but I apologize for letting it come through as a feeling of
superiority. :)
Nice of you to apologie, but I didn't intend the comment as a personal
accusation. I hvaen't kept track of who I think does this and who
doesn't.
Its just an impression I've gotten from having read many threads over
several years. In some cases, I've read threads where this is blatantly
the
case, in others it is apparent but more subtely expressed. For my own
part,
I've felt obliged to be a little sensitive on this score. I have
because
everyone else I know is not an atheist and I hate to see the ones I love
or
like insulted. I also think that its a tendency that we as a group
would do
well to be aware of, if we are to try to have influence with the rest of
society (such as if we want a measure of popular support for going
against
certain separation issues). Finally, I dislike bigotry in all its forms
and
don't like to see our frustration over what others do to us be
transformed
into our own backlash against those who don't deserve it.
The problem here is that you confuse what you read here with the real
world. We can blow off steam online by taking positions that might be
too rude (or dangerous) to take in the real world.
Xians like to push atheists around. They do so both verbally and
physically and they keep attempting to do it legally. An *unbiased
person couldn't blame us for taking an attitude in the one place where
we are safe to do so. *You however decide that we aren't being fair
and chastise us. Excuse me for not seeing your point of view.
Fair enough. Perhaps you are right in that the people I am criticizing
aren't, IRL, what they act like here. I have no way of knowing, and tend to
take things as I see them. I'm willing to admit that it may not be the
case.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
04 Jul 2004 12:38:45 AM |
|
|
jwk wrote:
Atheists are the least prejudice people there is. We hold all
theistic belief with equal esteem. And it has been my observation
that atheists are much less likely to blame the individual for his
religion. We understand that social factors such as upbringing
determine one's religion. Not their personal moral fiber. We
(generally) don't hate someone who was raised a muslim for being a
muslim, for instance. Most theists aren't as understanding.
Self serving bull.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 02:55:30 AM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote
Is atheism anti-semitic?
No, of course not.
I just wish you could practice you religion without controlling
the media, desecrating the Catholic Eucharist or partaking of
human flesh.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 10:51:23 AM |
|
|
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lKqdnYGNfqsq7X_dRVn-hw@comcast.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote
Is atheism anti-semitic?
No, of course not.
I just wish you could practice you religion without controlling
the media, desecrating the Catholic Eucharist or partaking of
human flesh.
Ha ha. :)
--
RB
aa#2187
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 09:57:55 PM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <li@so-net.net.tw> wrote
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote
Is atheism anti-semitic?
No, of course not.
I just wish you could practice you religion without controlling
the media, desecrating the Catholic Eucharist or partaking of
human flesh.
Ha ha. :)
Thank you. Considering the medium (usenet), the regrets started
almost immediately.
After all, there is *Nothing* so over-the-top that it can't spark a
flamewar.
--
RB
aa#2187
.
|
|
|
| User: "Eric Pepke" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
01 Jul 2004 03:31:32 AM |
|
|
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hoSdnY0QMP7l4X7dRVn-iQ@comcast.com>...
Thank you. Considering the medium (usenet), the regrets started
almost immediately.
After all, there is *Nothing* so over-the-top that it can't spark a
flamewar.
But it didn't, so maybe there are a few neurons actually firing out there.
I'm not saying that there are, mind you, just that it hasn't been ruled out.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 01:38:21 AM |
|
|
JTEM wrote:
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote
Is atheism anti-semitic?
No, of course not.
I just wish you could practice you religion without controlling
the media, desecrating the Catholic Eucharist or partaking of
human flesh.
Can't have those nasty Jews stealing your thunder.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 05:06:05 AM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Certainly not. I am an atheist and I am Jewish, i.e. a Semite. There is no
conflict in this, nor do I harbor a dislike for other Jews (or myself for
that matter) as a result of not believing in anything the Jewish religion
preaches. Among those who post on AA, I am happy to say that I differ from
most in that I am also able to be comfortable in my atheistic outlook
without being a theophobe (a word I just coined, for one who has an
irrational fear of religion or religious people).
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul A Abeles" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 07:04:21 AM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:hgwEc.76258$wH4.4737764@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Certainly not. I am an atheist and I am Jewish,
Therefore you are a heretic, like Spinoza. And I hereby excommunicate you.
Rabbi Abeles.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
01 Jul 2004 04:17:46 PM |
|
|
"Paul A Abeles" <abeles@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9%xEc.71463$sj4.44261@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:hgwEc.76258$wH4.4737764@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Certainly not. I am an atheist and I am Jewish,
Therefore you are a heretic, like Spinoza. And I hereby excommunicate you.
Spinoza kicked *****.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 01:45:55 AM |
|
|
Hypatia Kosh wrote:
Spinoza kicked *****.
His own.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
30 Jun 2004 11:14:07 AM |
|
|
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:hgwEc.76258$wH4.4737764@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <jing@topway.net.cn> wrote in message
news:rdrEc.9298$SO5.7100@twister.socal.rr.com...
Is atheism anti-semitic?
As a member of a minority persecuted on religious
grounds, I am sensitive to other's beliefs.
I am all for freedom of thought.
I don't care what you believe about deities
as long as you believe in equal rights and
the equality of human kind.
The problem is that most religions (Buddhism
perhaps being an acception) contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
That is bigotry.
I enjoy skewering those who would claim
such status, regardless of their religion.
If one challenges the posed unique moral or divine
status of a group one can expect reprobration.
If one levels the challenge at Judaism, a charge
of anti-semitism seems assured.
What is anti-semitism?
Is challenging the tenets of Judaism
anti-semitic?
Is anti-semitism racism?
Is atheistic disbelief in the tenets of
Judaism anti-semitic?
Certainly not. I am an atheist and I am Jewish, i.e. a Semite. There is
no
conflict in this, nor do I harbor a dislike for other Jews (or myself for
that matter) as a result of not believing in anything the Jewish religion
preaches.
Cool.
Among those who post on AA, I am happy to say that I differ from
most in that I am also able to be comfortable in my atheistic outlook
without being a theophobe (a word I just coined, for one who has an
irrational fear of religion or religious people).
I'll admit there are probably some theophobes (having
irrational fear) here but I don't think they are the majority.
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
--
RB
aa#2187
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 01:56:33 AM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
On what grounds?
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 11:53:35 AM |
|
|
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E50767.A13A5D1B@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
On what grounds?
Most religions contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
The problem comes when they take that
seriously and persecute others because of it.
--
RB
aa#2187
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
02 Jul 2004 08:20:57 PM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E50767.A13A5D1B@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
On what grounds?
Most religions contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
The problem comes when they take that
seriously and persecute others because of it.
Do you think the morals you construct for yourself are
superior to those made by religions?
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
03 Jul 2004 12:12:33 AM |
|
|
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E60A40.3B97C1B3@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E50767.A13A5D1B@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
On what grounds?
Most religions contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
The problem comes when they take that
seriously and persecute others because of it.
Do you think the morals you construct for yourself are
superior to those made by religions?
On certain issues, yes.
--
RB
aa#2187
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Is atheism anti-semitic? |
04 Jul 2004 12:14:06 AM |
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"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E60A40.3B97C1B3@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40E50767.A13A5D1B@worldnet.att.net...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" wrote:
Some fear of religion and some religious people is
rational.
On what grounds?
Most religions contain claims of
unique moral or divine status of their adherents.
The problem comes when they take that
seriously and persecute others because of it.
Do you think the morals you construct for yourself are
superior to those made by religions?
On certain issues, yes.
Which ones?
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
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