| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2005 05:48:47 PM |
| Object: |
Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
The Wave of the Future
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual
license, the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness,
the philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense
of binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of
secularism find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to
materialize? In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western
progressives to abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and
superstitious faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their
cultural preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air
of despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst
of economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism
and embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits
of a Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian
society would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we
now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on
obedience-- obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to
properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm
afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands.
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in
the liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given
Sunday. The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell
or a Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine
liberals of modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and
morally dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
The vision of Lewis seems a sane response to the catastrophe of modern
Western lifestyles. Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences. In that
sense, the wave of the future may not be a spreading of the twin
Western pillars of consumerism and sexual chaos. Instead, the wave of
the future may very well be a rejection of materialism and a renewed
commitment to traditional family life so that people will live to
flourish and not live to consume things and consume themselves. But,
regardless, of "the wave of the future," the wise, even if remaining a
little flock, will seek the path of human flourishing and reject the
path of nihilism.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2003/10/wave-of-future.html
.
|
|
| User: "Robert Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 08:02:30 PM |
|
|
"Pluralism" is my first response/reaction in debating against the
conservative's sincere doomsday theme.
But I myself am no damne optimist either, and can list dozens of ugly
future (awful) scenarios, and have in a previous time (circa early
2001).
"Live & let live" is an appropriate wonderful shorthand for the
theoretical, beautiful
concept of "freedom" and of loberally allowing multiple choices.
But
perhaps "freedom" is non-sustainable in the unideal current situation,
or in the real world as it is.
Conformity and community responsibility are seemingly necessary
realities for mutual survival--I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist.
The historic problem of maintaining "liberalism" and "secular humanism"
is very apparent in an economic recession/Depression.
But, counter-intuitively, in the affluent go-go, mid-late 1990s in the
USA, the right has since enjoyed great political gains & dominance to
this day.
And today, the ugly, fragmented
World situation is seemingly more saddening & threatening than anytime
since WW II.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "©hri§tÇræm® " |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
03 Aug 2005 08:00:06 PM |
|
|
Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences.
What gibberish. Religion is finished. 2,000 years and look where we still
are. Enough is enough. Yoga is a perfectly acceptable replacement.
--
©hri§tÇræm®
"The power of Cream compels you."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Josef Balluch" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 09:13:54 PM |
|
|
In a message sent 'round the world, poured
fuel on the fire with the following:
....
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat
Matthew 6:26
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they
reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are
ye not much better than they?
. . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries ...
.... such as eternal life.
... and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them.
.... such as Christianity.
And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs.
Let's hope the Vatican takes note.
....
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong.
Once upon a time, long, long ago, there lay in a valley far, far away
in the mountains the most contented kingdom the world has ever known. It
was called Happy Valley, and it was ruled over by a wise old king called
Otto. And all his subjects flourished and were happy, and there were no
discontents or grumblers, because wise King Otto had had them all put to
death, along with the trade union leaders, many years before. And all
the happy folk of Happy Valley sang and danced all day long, and anyone
who was for any reason miserable or unhappy or who had any difficult
personal problem was prosecuted under the Happiness Act.
Prosecution: Caspar Schlitz, I put it to you that you were, on February
5th this year, very depressed with malice aforethought, and did moan
quietly, contrary to the Cheerful Noises Act.
Schlitz: I did.
Defence: May I just explain, m'lud, that the reason for my client's
behaviour was that his wife had just died that morning.
[All except the accused laugh uproariously.]
Judge: Members of the jury, have you reached your verdict?
Foreman: Guilty.
[All laugh again.]
Judge: I hereby sentence you to be hanged by the neck until you cheer
up.
[All laugh.]
-- Monty Python (Happy Valley)
. . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
I think that "Pythonesque" is the term you are searching for.
Regards,
Josef
Great harm is done by people who offer prescriptions for an ideal
society.
-- Steven Weinberg
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 11:08:50 PM |
|
|
In episode <MPG.1d58a0f179899c60989b15@news1.on.sympatico.ca>, Josef
Balluch burst into the room and exclaimed:
In a message sent 'round the world, poured fuel
on the fire with the following:
...
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat
Matthew 6:26
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor
gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much
better than they?
Now, now, that was that guy... what was his name... Jesus, yeah him. But
*Paul, he's the one you gotta listen to. Not that hippie freak other guy...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 05:59:52 PM |
|
|
In article <1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> writes:
The Wave of the Future
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual
license, the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness,
the philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense
of binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of
secularism find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to
materialize? In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western
progressives to abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and
superstitious faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their
cultural preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air
of despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst
of economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism
and embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits
of a Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian
society would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we
now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on
obedience-- obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to
properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm
afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands.
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in
the liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given
Sunday. The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell
or a Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine
liberals of modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and
morally dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
Ah, I never realized that Big Oil, Big Agra, Big Boxes, Big Business in
general -- all these may be blamed on the liberal left with its incessant
and uncompromising promotion of capitalism and and its demands for an
economy which expands without regard for resources.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "BDK" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 09:03:28 PM |
|
|
In article <1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wordsoftruth114@email.com says...
The Wave of the Future
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual
license, the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness,
the philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense
of binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of
secularism find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to
materialize? In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western
progressives to abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and
superstitious faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their
cultural preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air
of despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst
of economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism
and embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits
of a Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian
society would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we
now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on
obedience-- obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to
properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm
afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands.
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in
the liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given
Sunday. The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell
or a Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine
liberals of modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and
morally dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
The vision of Lewis seems a sane response to the catastrophe of modern
Western lifestyles. Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences. In that
sense, the wave of the future may not be a spreading of the twin
Western pillars of consumerism and sexual chaos. Instead, the wave of
the future may very well be a rejection of materialism and a renewed
commitment to traditional family life so that people will live to
flourish and not live to consume things and consume themselves. But,
regardless, of "the wave of the future," the wise, even if remaining a
little flock, will seek the path of human flourishing and reject the
path of nihilism.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2003/10/wave-of-future.html
And who really gives a ***** what C.S. Lewis wrote over 50 years ago?
Or ever wrote?
BDK
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 11:09:15 PM |
|
|
In episode <MPG.1d589e7d4ba93d2f9899f0@news.buckeye-express.com>, BDK
burst into the room and exclaimed:
In article <1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wordsoftruth114@email.com says...
The Wave of the Future
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual license,
the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness, the
philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense of
binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of secularism
find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to materialize?
In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western progressives to
abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and superstitious
faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their cultural
preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air of
despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst of
economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism and
embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits of a
Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian society
would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we now
call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on obedience--
obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to properly
appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm afraid this is
going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands. Thirdly, it is to be
a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing, and regarding worry
or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a society in existence and
you or I visited it, I think we'd come away with a curious impression.
We should feel that its economic life was very socialistic and, in that
sense, advanced, but that its family life and its code of manners were
rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in the
liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given Sunday.
The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell or a
Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine liberals of
modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and morally
dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
The vision of Lewis seems a sane response to the catastrophe of modern
Western lifestyles. Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences. In that sense,
the wave of the future may not be a spreading of the twin Western
pillars of consumerism and sexual chaos. Instead, the wave of the future
may very well be a rejection of materialism and a renewed commitment to
traditional family life so that people will live to flourish and not
live to consume things and consume themselves. But, regardless, of "the
wave of the future," the wise, even if remaining a little flock, will
seek the path of human flourishing and reject the path of nihilism.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2003/10/wave-of-future.html
And who really gives a ***** what C.S. Lewis wrote over 50 years ago?
Or ever wrote?
As if C. S. Lewis wrote...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 06:48:17 PM |
|
|
In episode <1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wordsoftruth114 burst into the room and exclaimed:
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant.
So you think communism is the future?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 07:36:34 PM |
|
|
In episode <1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wordsoftruth114 burst into the room and exclaimed:
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism and
embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits of a
Christian culture.
Huh. Sayid Qtub thought just like that.
Qtub was, by the way, one of bin Laden's main influences...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Linda Cacini" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 11:30:13 PM |
|
|
On 1 Aug 2005 15:48:47 -0700, wrote:
The Wave of the Future
If it is, it will be the wave of the short term future.
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual
license, the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness,
the philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense
of binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of
secularism find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to
materialize? In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western
progressives to abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and
superstitious faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their
cultural preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air
of despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst
of economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism
and embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits
of a Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian
society would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we
now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on
obedience-- obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to
properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm
afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands.
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in
the liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given
Sunday. The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell
or a Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine
liberals of modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and
morally dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
The vision of Lewis seems a sane response to the catastrophe of modern
Western lifestyles. Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences. In that
sense, the wave of the future may not be a spreading of the twin
Western pillars of consumerism and sexual chaos. Instead, the wave of
the future may very well be a rejection of materialism and a renewed
commitment to traditional family life so that people will live to
flourish and not live to consume things and consume themselves. But,
regardless, of "the wave of the future," the wise, even if remaining a
little flock, will seek the path of human flourishing and reject the
path of nihilism.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2003/10/wave-of-future.html
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Knight" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 10:44:28 PM |
|
|
On 1 Aug 2005 15:48:47 -0700, wrote:
snippage
The Wave of the Future
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs.
You got me. I couldn't even imagine an idiot would drag out Lewis
as a bench march for 'proper' human behavior. A whacked out fantasy
writer that lost his mind and became superstitious fool. DUH!
Don't you people stop to consider your sources? Is it so fucking
impossible for you to, for one fucking nanosecond, figure out how to
address an atheists!?
We KNOW your superstition. We know it better than you do.
Why the ***** do you think we're atheists!?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Atheist Secularism The Wave Of The Future? |
01 Aug 2005 06:29:56 PM |
|
|
Why should we believe in your Christian interpretation of what Secular
Westerners believe
in and how they are living their lives. These are just heavily biased and
selfishly motivated claims
without objective evidence in reality.
Your just twisting reality to suite your religious motives.
<wordsoftruth114@email.com> wrote in message
news:1122936526.888349.113800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The Wave of the Future
The assumption of many secular Westerners is that the culture of the
secular West is the wave of the future. The lifestyle of sexual
license, the push to re-define marriage, the embrace of childlessness,
the philosophical focus on the fulfillment of the self at the expense
of binding commitments are seen as the marks of enlightened civilized
progress. In many ways, this Western world view, while radically new in
the details of its agenda for change, is still rooted in the very old
philosophy of the Enlightenment, a philosophy of uninterrupted progress
as the shackles of traditional religion, family, and morality are left
behind. Even after a twentieth century full of world wars, holocausts,
the breakdown of family life, plummeting birth rates among European
populations, and widespread, empty consumerism, the progressive outlook
amazingly persists.
This progressive outlook looks at the so-called "backward" parts of the
world, such as Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and envisions their
gradual adoption of all the traits and preferences of secular Western
lifestyles. But what if the model of the inevitable progress of secular
Western culture is wrong? What if, like Marx, the prophets of
secularism find that their anticipated historical outcomes refuse to
materialize? In my view, much of the astounding refusal of Western
progressives to abandon their worldview lies in their unquestioned and
superstitious faith in the inevitable progress and expansion of their
cultural preferences. But they may, in fact, be quite wrong.
An alternative future scenario in which cultures reject the wild
individualism of the West may be what is in fact triumphant. Acts have
consequences, lifestyles have lengthy shadows over present and future
generations. When the Old Testament Scriptures speak of the sins of the
fathers being visited upon the children, we can no longer dismiss such
passages as merely outdated and primitive musings. In fact, in our
everyday experience, we see how the sins of the fathers overshadow
tragically the lives of the children. The practical consequences of
Western individual excess are plainly evident. The shadow of substance
abuse, whether the substances are legal or illegal, has hung over
countless Western families. The licentious lifestyle has marred and
destroyed many a family, with deep psychological consequences that
surface in the destructive choices of later generations. The empty
consumerism and status-seeking of Western societies create the
conditions for the abuse of substances and bodies and leads to an air
of despair. Can a culture that produces such consequences in the midst
of economic affluence really be the wave of the future?
C.S. Lewis once wrote of what he envisioned as a Christian culture, one
marked by the de-emphasis on conspicuous consumption and by very
conservative social customs. To Lewis, this rejection of consumerism
and embrace of social conservatism seemed to be the inevitable traits
of a Christian culture. Here is Lewis on what "a fully Christian
society would be like" using the language of someone writing in 1943:
It [the New Testament] tells us that there are to be no passengers or
parasites: if man doesn't work, he oughtn't to eat . . . .there will be
no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to
persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank"or "side," no
putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we
now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on
obedience-- obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to
properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I'm
afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands.
Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing,
and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. . . . If there were such a
society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we'd come away
with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was
very socialistic and, in that sense, advanced, but that its family life
and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-- perhaps even
ceremonious and aristocratic.
C.S. Lewis, Christian Behaviour (The MacMillan Co. 1950 [1943]), p. 15.
Clearly, Lewis envisions a Christian rejection of consumerism and a
Christian embrace of social or family traditionalism. In the United
States at least, what Lewis assumed to be a "Leftist" rejection of
consumerism no longer applies. What passes for the Left in the United
States is adamantly materialist and consumerist--- if in doubt, just
peruse the glossy pages of excessive and dissolute advertisements in
the liberal newspaper of record, the New York Times, on any given
Sunday. The idea of leftist simplicity of lifestyle, say of an Orwell
or a Dorothy Day, is long gone. In place, we have the limousine
liberals of modern America exemplified by the materially voracious and
morally dissolute lifestyle of the Clintons.
The vision of Lewis seems a sane response to the catastrophe of modern
Western lifestyles. Even secularists who believe only in evolutionary
changes and pragmatism must concede that destructive lifestyles will
breed reactions seeking to escape their bad consequences. In that
sense, the wave of the future may not be a spreading of the twin
Western pillars of consumerism and sexual chaos. Instead, the wave of
the future may very well be a rejection of materialism and a renewed
commitment to traditional family life so that people will live to
flourish and not live to consume things and consume themselves. But,
regardless, of "the wave of the future," the wise, even if remaining a
little flock, will seek the path of human flourishing and reject the
path of nihilism.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2003/10/wave-of-future.html
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
