Religions > Atheism > Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"darth_versive" |
| Date: |
18 Jan 2004 04:22:39 PM |
| Object: |
Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
Many creationists argue (falsely, in my view) that the theory of
evolution is a philosophy or a religion, and that accepting it is
tantamount to believing in a "naturalistic worldview," which denies
the existence of God or anything supernatural.
I would argue that creationists, and more broadly speaking,
evangelicals and fundamentalists in general, are overlooking an
important distinction between science on the one hand, and religious
or philosophical systems on the other.
There's a clear distinction between philosophical naturalism (also
called ontological naturalism or metaphysical naturalism) and science,
which involves methodological naturalism. This distinction is
apparent to anyone who has ever seriously studied science and
philosophy.
Science makes no metaphysical claims regarding whether everything that
exists is part of the natural realm and whether the supernatural does
or doesn't exist. Science is silent on the issue.
Therefore, one can accept the theory of evolution as good science, and
at the same time, one can believe in one or another religious system
involving a supernatural deity or deities. And many good scientists
do exactly this.
The problem, as we know, is that certain religious systems teach that
their deity or deities were directly involved in the process of
creation, and that that process involved specific miracles rather than
the sorts of natural processes studied by science. Therefore, they
can't reconcile what science teaches with their existing theology and
religious tradition; and they're not willing or able to give this up.
Therefore, they reject modern science--at least those parts of it
which encroach upon those parts of their creation stories which are
important to them to believe for theological reasons.
It's a very interesting psychological and cultural phenomenon, from a
social scientific perspective (although I realize that it doesn't seem
so very interesting to those pro-science folks who keep banging their
heads against a brick wall by trying to reason with those people who
hold to such dogmatic theological views).
It may be that these pro-science folks are destined to continue
banging their heads against this particular brick wall indefinitely,
seeing as how all these philosophical arguments and all this empirical
evidence that demonstrate that evolution is science, not philosophy or
religion, makes so much sense that they feel compelled to continue to
point it out; and seeing as how those who are locked into such
dogmatic theological views don't seem to be weakening in their faith,
in spite of all attempts to get them to see reason and face facts. So
it's something akin to an irresistible force meeting an immovable
object.
So it's a source of unending frustration to many in the pro-science
community. But at the same time, it's a source of unending
fascination for many others in the pro-science community who look at
it from a social science perspective. It's the equivalent of a
star-gazer being treated to a non-stop show of supernovae, comets,
meteor showers, and solar and lunar eclipses. It's just too good to
pass up.
DV
.
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
18 Jan 2004 04:43:16 PM |
|
|
"darth_versive" <darth_versive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8e0e3045.0401181427.29bb1dd0@posting.google.com...
Many creationists argue (falsely, in my view) that the theory of
evolution is a philosophy or a religion, and that accepting it is
tantamount to believing in a "naturalistic worldview," which denies
the existence of God or anything supernatural.
I would argue that creationists, and more broadly speaking,
evangelicals and fundamentalists in general, are overlooking an
important distinction between science on the one hand, and religious
or philosophical systems on the other.
There's a clear distinction between philosophical naturalism (also
called ontological naturalism or metaphysical naturalism) and science,
which involves methodological naturalism. This distinction is
apparent to anyone who has ever seriously studied science and
philosophy.
Science makes no metaphysical claims regarding whether everything that
exists is part of the natural realm and whether the supernatural does
or doesn't exist. Science is silent on the issue.
Therefore, one can accept the theory of evolution as good science, and
at the same time, one can believe in one or another religious system
involving a supernatural deity or deities. And many good scientists
do exactly this.
The problem, as we know, is that certain religious systems teach that
their deity or deities were directly involved in the process of
creation, and that that process involved specific miracles rather than
the sorts of natural processes studied by science. Therefore, they
can't reconcile what science teaches with their existing theology and
religious tradition; and they're not willing or able to give this up.
Therefore, they reject modern science--at least those parts of it
which encroach upon those parts of their creation stories which are
important to them to believe for theological reasons.
It's a very interesting psychological and cultural phenomenon, from a
social scientific perspective (although I realize that it doesn't seem
so very interesting to those pro-science folks who keep banging their
heads against a brick wall by trying to reason with those people who
hold to such dogmatic theological views).
It may be that these pro-science folks are destined to continue
banging their heads against this particular brick wall indefinitely,
seeing as how all these philosophical arguments and all this empirical
evidence that demonstrate that evolution is science, not philosophy or
religion, makes so much sense that they feel compelled to continue to
point it out; and seeing as how those who are locked into such
dogmatic theological views don't seem to be weakening in their faith,
in spite of all attempts to get them to see reason and face facts. So
it's something akin to an irresistible force meeting an immovable
object.
So it's a source of unending frustration to many in the pro-science
community. But at the same time, it's a source of unending
fascination for many others in the pro-science community who look at
it from a social science perspective. It's the equivalent of a
star-gazer being treated to a non-stop show of supernovae, comets,
meteor showers, and solar and lunar eclipses. It's just too good to
pass up.
God is fact. Evolution is fact, too. Science and religion have nothing to
do with it. See things from the total perspective.
.
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| User: "I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
18 Jan 2004 06:46:19 PM |
|
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"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact" that I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which there is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which is, from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a "fact".
.
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
18 Jan 2004 09:52:41 PM |
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"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact" that I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which there is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which is, from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a "fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
Which includes most everybody.
Doesn't matter, though, because he is still here, helping people, visibly.
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have found God.
.
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 01:11:22 PM |
|
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"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> writes:
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him. Which
includes most everybody. Doesn't matter, though, because he is still
here, helping people, visibly. Find the nearest person that knows too
much, and you may have found God.
I have never met a person who claimed he was "helped by God"
whose "help" couldn't have been explained by sheer probability. It's
just twisted that every person who has been saved by "God" in a car
accident ignores the sick irony that they're being thankful for being
favored: "Thank you, God, for killing that poor shmoe and not me."
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Proud to be an Extinctionist
http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/
With the advance of biogenetics, it is not so much that we are losing
our dignity and freedom but that we realise we never had them in the
first place. - Slavoj Zizek
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 09:26:08 AM |
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"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact" that I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a "fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Which includes most everybody.
Doesn't matter, though, because he is still here, helping people, visibly.
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have found God.
In my old neighborhood, if you knew too much you likely got a
concrete shoe shine?
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
.
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 08:53:37 PM |
|
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact" that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a "fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Which includes most everybody.
Doesn't matter, though, because he is still here, helping people,
visibly.
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have found God.
In my old neighborhood, if you knew too much you likely got a
concrete shoe shine?
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 09:41:42 PM |
|
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And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com> wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact" that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a "fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 10:36:02 PM |
|
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 11:28:49 PM |
|
|
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:36:02 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
Time to back away slowly.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 01:06:59 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.27.04.977047@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:36:02 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
Time to back away slowly.
In your case that may be wise. To see God unprepared can have tragic
results. Lightning and fire proceed from his direction. In the spirit, but
in reality.
Once you rejuvenate the spirit, then it will be worth the cost.
.
|
|
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| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 08:20:29 AM |
|
|
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buijv9$rjc@library2.airnews.net...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.27.04.977047@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:36:02 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word
"fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for
which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and
which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
Time to back away slowly.
In your case that may be wise. To see God unprepared can have tragic
results. Lightning and fire proceed from his direction. In the spirit,
but
in reality.
Once you rejuvenate the spirit, then it will be worth the cost.
Damn it all Mark, I should have followed your lead.
.
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 09:40:09 AM |
|
|
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:20:29 +0000 didst Geoff speak thusly:
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buijv9$rjc@library2.airnews.net...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.27.04.977047@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:36:02 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word
"fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for
which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and
which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
Time to back away slowly.
In your case that may be wise. To see God unprepared can have tragic
results. Lightning and fire proceed from his direction. In the spirit,
but
in reality.
Once you rejuvenate the spirit, then it will be worth the cost.
Damn it all Mark, I should have followed your lead.
Put the newsreader down and step back from the kook!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 09:39:47 AM |
|
|
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:06:59 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.27.04.977047@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:36:02 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.03.39.59.324534@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:53:37 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
"I Think..Therefore I Am Clayton" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKnotmyemail.com>
wrote
in
message news:400b29e6$0$4047$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buf2er$k44@library1.airnews.net...
God is fact.
You seem to be using some strange new meaning of the word "fact"
that
I
haven't heard of before. Please explain how something for which
there
is
absolutely no evidence for, no reason for, no need for and which
is,
from
it's most basic concept, childish, primitive and absurd...is a
"fact".
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
Ooooookay.
I think this is my stop...
To get off or to get on?
Time to back away slowly.
In your case that may be wise. To see God unprepared can have tragic
results. Lightning and fire proceed from his direction. In the spirit, but
in reality.
Once you rejuvenate the spirit, then it will be worth the cost.
Hey, know what?
You're *nuts.
Buh-bye!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Martin Crisp" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 10:01:32 PM |
|
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)? If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)? How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
[...]
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have
found God.
[...]
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
How in the name of Zeus can you measure such a thing?
Have Fun
Martin,killed by the wrath of Thoth
--
aa #1792
Kinky:
What I do that you wouldn't.
Perverted:
What you do that I wouldn't.
Almost always SMASHed
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 10:42:24 PM |
|
|
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC32F2B606D435F1F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)?
No.
If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)?
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
A person you just met should not act like an old friend, for example.
If he does, it just might be God. Or any of a number of other immortal
beings.
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
I am using "sight" literally. It is possible to see God, even though very
few are able to. They see him outwardly, but scarcely ever recognize him.
[...]
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have
found God.
[...]
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
How in the name of Zeus can you measure such a thing?
If you tell someone what you do for a living, and he suddenly knows where yo
u work, or someone you work with, for example.
This is not always an indicator of seeing God, but keep up these tests until
you know.
Have Fun
Martin,killed by the wrath of Thoth
Don't let them kill you. It hurts your character.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 11:28:31 PM |
|
|
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 01:39:57 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.26.48.450665@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
I believe UFOs are real.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 08:23:44 AM |
|
|
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:built1$288@library1.airnews.net...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.26.48.450665@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
I believe UFOs are real.
Why am I not surprised. I think there are probably lots of crazy things
that you believe. My credulity sensor is starting to glow.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 09:36:41 AM |
|
|
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:39:57 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.26.48.450665@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
I believe UFOs are real.
Why doesn't that surprise me?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "AC" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 10:23:41 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:39:57 +0000 (UTC),
Mark Earnest <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.26.48.450665@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
I believe UFOs are real.
I'm sure you do.
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
.
|
|
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|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
22 Jan 2004 02:20:24 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:39:57 +0000 (UTC), "Mark Earnest"
<mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net>, Message ID:
<built1$288@library1.airnews.net> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.05.26.48.450665@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:42:24 +0000 didst Mark Earnest speak
thusly:
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
And *some of them that appear to be people are Arcturians!
I believe UFOs are real.
So, I take it you just...erm...(cough) 'landed.'
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
|
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| User: "Martin Crisp" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 11:32:19 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:42:24 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <buibf3$4h2@library2.airnews.net>):
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC32F2B606D435F1F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)?
No.
OK.
If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)?
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
If we performed a standard medical examination of these 'gods'
would we find they had a physiology within normal human bounds?
Oh, do you mean that these various manifestations are
manifestations of one particular 'god', or that there are multiple
'gods' wandering around as people?
How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
A person you just met should not act like an old friend, for example.
It's a shame you don't live in a society with a greater number of
generally amiable people.
If he does, it just might be God. Or any of a number of other immortal
beings.
Such as? Maybe my Elven Wizard (the ascension I mentioned in
another reply) is wandering around out there? I recommend asking
each of these people/'gods' "Is your real name Foolish32?", be
warned though, he was last seen carrying the blessed rustproof +2
Magicbane, and is chaotic, so might just slice you up on a whim.
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
I am using "sight" literally. It is possible to see God, even though very
few are able to. They see him outwardly, but scarcely ever recognize him.
Just special people? Like you?
[...]
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have
found God.
[...]
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
How in the name of Zeus can you measure such a thing?
If you tell someone what you do for a living, and he suddenly
knows where yo u work, or someone you work with, for example.
This is not always an indicator of seeing God, but keep up
these tests until you know.
So if this isn't always an indicator, how do you ascertain/know
when it is?
Have Fun
Martin,killed by the wrath of Thoth
Don't let them kill you. It hurts your character.
Well, I generally plan to not die. But since most deaths are due
to stupid mistakes, they're informative, and educational, also
being killed isn't always fatal...
<paste>
Do you want to see your attributes? [ynq] (n)
Final Attributes:
You were the Glory of Arioch.
You were piously aligned.
You were fire resistant.
You were cold resistant.
You were sleep resistant.
You were disintegration-resistant.
You were shock resistant.
You were poison resistant.
You were magic-protected.
You saw invisible.
You were telepathic.
You were warned.
You were clairvoyant.
You had infravision.
You were invisible to others.
You were stealthy.
You could teleport.
You had teleport control.
You were protected.
You were very fast.
You had reflection.
You had free action.
Your life would have been saved.
You were extremely lucky.
You had extra luck.
Good luck did not time out for you.
You survived after being killed once.
</paste>
Obviously being killed doesn't always do a character much harm
[I'd starved to death, and learnt to be more careful regarding the
multiple contributory factors that caused that particular death].
Have Fun
Martin,killed by hallucinogen-distorted Ms. Zonguldak, the
shopkeeper
--
aa #1792
Almost always SMASHed
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 01:52:04 AM |
|
|
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC33082506D93BE0F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:42:24 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <buibf3$4h2@library2.airnews.net>):
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC32F2B606D435F1F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)?
No.
OK.
If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)?
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
If we performed a standard medical examination of these 'gods'
would we find they had a physiology within normal human bounds?
Yes, because their "temples" are mere human flesh.
Oh, do you mean that these various manifestations are
manifestations of one particular 'god', or that there are multiple
'gods' wandering around as people?
Think of it like an octopus. There are many manifestations of the one God,
in many different places at once. God is what is called "omnipresent,"
which means that he exists in every place at once.
These manifestations could also be considered "reflections." The
reflections are the octopus' legs, and the major manifestation is the head.
One term for this phenomenon could be a "multi-corporeal" being.
This is described in detail in Ezekiel, chapter 1, as the angels with wheels
that do whatever the angels do, if you want the reference.
How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
A person you just met should not act like an old friend, for example.
It's a shame you don't live in a society with a greater number of
generally amiable people.
Maybe such people are that way because they accept the manifestations of God
so freely.
If he does, it just might be God. Or any of a number of other immortal
beings.
Such as? Maybe my Elven Wizard (the ascension I mentioned in
another reply) is wandering around out there?
He probably exists on a far away planet, but if his planet has space travel,
there is a remote chance he could wind up here, looking for his spirit
director.
Look for the gods with a little 'g' too, if that is what you are wondering
about.
I recommend asking
each of these people/'gods' "Is your real name Foolish32?", be
warned though, he was last seen carrying the blessed rustproof +2
Magicbane, and is chaotic, so might just slice you up on a whim.
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
I am using "sight" literally. It is possible to see God, even though
very
few are able to. They see him outwardly, but scarcely ever recognize
him.
Just special people? Like you?
God revealed himself to me, yes. I only met one other person whom could see
him, and that was my wife.
[...]
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have
found God.
[...]
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
How in the name of Zeus can you measure such a thing?
If you tell someone what you do for a living, and he suddenly
knows where yo u work, or someone you work with, for example.
This is not always an indicator of seeing God, but keep up
these tests until you know.
So if this isn't always an indicator, how do you ascertain/know
when it is?
Have Fun
Martin,killed by the wrath of Thoth
Don't let them kill you. It hurts your character.
Well, I generally plan to not die. But since most deaths are due
to stupid mistakes, they're informative, and educational, also
being killed isn't always fatal...
Do you always "go back to save"? If so, that may indicate your need for a
saviour.
<paste>
Do you want to see your attributes? [ynq] (n)
Final Attributes:
You were the Glory of Arioch.
You were piously aligned.
You were fire resistant.
You were cold resistant.
You were sleep resistant.
You were disintegration-resistant.
You were shock resistant.
You were poison resistant.
You were magic-protected.
You saw invisible.
You were telepathic.
You were warned.
You were clairvoyant.
You had infravision.
You were invisible to others.
You were stealthy.
You could teleport.
You had teleport control.
You were protected.
You were very fast.
You had reflection.
You had free action.
Your life would have been saved.
You were extremely lucky.
You had extra luck.
Good luck did not time out for you.
You survived after being killed once.
</paste>
Obviously being killed doesn't always do a character much harm
[I'd starved to death, and learnt to be more careful regarding the
multiple contributory factors that caused that particular death].
When your character is killed, do you have him resurrected? Does he
sometimes walk on water? You know whom invented that, don't you?
--
Light travels at infinite speed, because once it is reached, its boundaries
travel into the endless. Whatever is conceivable by man, is true somewhere,
somehow.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
22 Jan 2004 04:10:20 PM |
|
|
Mark Earnest wrote:
God is what is called "omnipresent,"
which means that he exists in every place at once.
You are a Pantheist?
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Martin Crisp" |
|
| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 03:29:15 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:52:04 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <buimjk$6gb@library1.airnews.net>):
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC33082506D93BE0F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:42:24 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <buibf3$4h2@library2.airnews.net>):
"Martin Crisp" <Spam.Bucket@tesseract.com.au> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC32F2B606D435F1F0305600@news.ozemail.com.au...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)?
No.
OK.
If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)?
No, just some of what appear to be people are in fact, God.
If we performed a standard medical examination of these 'gods'
would we find they had a physiology within normal human bounds?
Yes, because their "temples" are mere human flesh.
Or, because they are humans, not gods.
Oh, do you mean that these various manifestations are
manifestations of one particular 'god', or that there are multiple
'gods' wandering around as people?
Think of it like an octopus. There are many manifestations of the one God,
I don't know how to think like an octopus [I have enough trouble
trying to think like non-human mammals...]
in many different places at once. God is what is called "omnipresent,"
which means that he exists in every place at once.
So why were you bothering with tha babble about humans that 'know
more than they should'?
These manifestations could also be considered "reflections." The
reflections are the octopus' legs, and the major manifestation is the head.
So these things that are god, aren't god, but are reflections of
god.
Have you considered the posibility that you're making less and
less sense as you 'explain' more and more of your conception of
'god'?
One term for this phenomenon could be a "multi-corporeal" being.
This is described in detail in Ezekiel, chapter 1, as the angels with wheels
that do whatever the angels do, if you want the reference.
There is no mention of angels in Ezekiel 1 as far as I can make
out. What is an 'angel' in any case? Why are you calling these
things part of God one moment, reflections of god the next, and
angels soon after?
How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
A person you just met should not act like an old friend, for example.
It's a shame you don't live in a society with a greater number of
generally amiable people.
Maybe such people are that way because they accept the manifestations of God
so freely.
Interestingly, this society is seemingly more secular than your
own. So, no, apparently not.
If he does, it just might be God. Or any of a number of other immortal
beings.
Such as? Maybe my Elven Wizard (the ascension I mentioned in
another reply) is wandering around out there?
He probably exists on a far away planet, but if his planet has space travel,
there is a remote chance he could wind up here, looking for his spirit
director.
Yes, and a balrog lives in my roof-space.
Look for the gods with a little 'g' too, if that is what you are wondering
about.
Small gods? You mean like Om?
I recommend asking
each of these people/'gods' "Is your real name Foolish32?", be
warned though, he was last seen carrying the blessed rustproof +2
Magicbane, and is chaotic, so might just slice you up on a whim.
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
I am using "sight" literally. It is possible to see God,
even though very few are able to. They see him outwardly,
but scarcely ever recognize him.
Just special people? Like you?
God revealed himself to me, yes. I only met one other person
whom could see him, and that was my wife.
So what was this god like? How did you know it was god, and not
something masquerading as god? [Or simply a delusion which your
wife went along with, rather than risk her husband becoming
violent if his delusion was challenged.]
[...]
Find the nearest person that knows too much, and you may have
found God.
[...]
So what exactly did you mean by that last statement?
A person whom knows more than a person should be able to know.
How in the name of Zeus can you measure such a thing?
If you tell someone what you do for a living, and he suddenly
knows where yo u work, or someone you work with, for example.
This is not always an indicator of seeing God, but keep up
these tests until you know.
So if this isn't always an indicator, how do you ascertain/know
when it is?
??
Have Fun
Martin,killed by the wrath of Thoth
Don't let them kill you. It hurts your character.
Well, I generally plan to not die. But since most deaths are due
to stupid mistakes, they're informative, and educational, also
being killed isn't always fatal...
Do you always "go back to save"? If so, that may indicate your need for a
saviour.
No, I never do [for a start the game actively tries to prevent
such cheating: save =save & quit; load =load and delete save file.
Secondly it's a very steep slippery slope between doing so 'in
extraordinary circumstances' and doing so to remove all challenge
from the game].
I guess, using your illogic, that indicates my lack of need for a
saviour.
<paste>
Do you want to see your attributes? [ynq] (n)
Final Attributes:
You were the Glory of Arioch.
You were piously aligned.
You were fire resistant.
You were cold resistant.
You were sleep resistant.
You were disintegration-resistant.
You were shock resistant.
You were poison resistant.
You were magic-protected.
You saw invisible.
You were telepathic.
You were warned.
You were clairvoyant.
You had infravision.
You were invisible to others.
You were stealthy.
You could teleport.
You had teleport control.
You were protected.
You were very fast.
You had reflection.
You had free action.
Your life would have been saved.
You were extremely lucky.
You had extra luck.
Good luck did not time out for you.
You survived after being killed once.
</paste>
Obviously being killed doesn't always do a character much harm
[I'd starved to death, and learnt to be more careful regarding the
multiple contributory factors that caused that particular death].
When your character is killed, do you have him resurrected? Does he
Not as such. It involves wearing a particular magic item, which is
destroyed when the character dies, but at the same time restores
the character to full health. [Such items are rare]
sometimes walk on water? You know whom invented that, don't you?
If wearing boots of water walking, or if polymorphed into an
amphibious creature (such as a python). Yes, he can be the serpent
as well, your pathetic attempts to weave your religion into a
computer game are ridiculous. [Particularly since your Mythos is
one the game doesn't include (at least in so far as the gods it
refers to), even though it includes parts from several others.
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/gods-343.txt]
No I don't know. I do know it predates the biblical reports of
Jesus little stroll, though. [The Buddha allegedly walked on
water, as did Horus.]
Have Fun
Martin
--
aa #1792
Almost always SMASHed
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
22 Jan 2004 04:19:13 PM |
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Martin Crisp wrote:
Interestingly, this society is seemingly more secular than your
own. So, no, apparently not.
Ah yes, the good ole Secularism religion.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 10:26:10 PM |
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And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:01:32 +0000 didst Martin Crisp speak
thusly:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)? If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)? How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
And do these "people" have special messages just for him?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "Mark Earnest" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
19 Jan 2004 11:22:55 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.04.24.25.387039@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:01:32 +0000 didst Martin Crisp speak
thusly:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did you last see god and how did he manifest himself?
Every day. As a human being.
So, every day you meet people who know more than they should be
able to know (whatever that means, and however you determine such
a seemingly nonsensical state)?
Or are you talking only about yourself (as seen in a mirror)? If
so do you mean to say each person is a god (and thereby knows more
than a person should be able to know)? How do you know how much
you 'should be able to' know?
Or are you using 'sight' metaphorically, if so would you mind not
doing so, or at least explain the metaphor, few (if any) of us are
capable of reading your mind.
And do these "people" have special messages just for him?
Of course they do. If you find them they will have messages for you, too.
From "beyond," if that is your best conception of where they are from.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Is evolution science or philosophy: How to view the arguments? |
20 Jan 2004 08:22:06 AM |
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"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:buidrk$uop@library1.airnews.net...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.20.04.24.25.387039@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:01:32 +0000 didst Martin Crisp speak
thusly:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:53:37 +1100, Mark Earnest wrote
(in message <bui542$3ul@library2.airnews.net>):
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QKSOb.83533$Rc4.300436@attbi_s54...
"Mark Earnest" <mark45@SPAMLESSairmail.net> wrote in message
news:bufkj1$mlb@library2.airnews.net...
<snip earlier>
God is such a fact that only the sightless cannot see him.
When did yo | | | | | | | | | |
