| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Rump Ranger" |
| Date: |
24 Dec 2004 06:20:55 AM |
| Object: |
Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
----------------------
http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson109.html
God, Bush, and Functional Atheism
by William L. Anderson
My family and I attend a conservative Presbyterian church in a fairly
conservative place (western Maryland), so it is not surprising that our
congregation consists in large part of supporters of Republicans in
general and the George W. Bush Administration in particular. I suspect
it would be more surprising if our small Presbyterian Church in America
assembly were a mass of Democrats (or even libertarians), given the
politics of modern America.
One of the publications our church receives is Citizen, which
represents the political arm of the Focus on the Family organization
founded and run by James Dobson. Citizen is unabashedly pro-Republican,
although Dobson periodically has warned the party that it must impose a
"pro-family" agenda or Dobson will leave and take his votes elsewhere.
The latest edition of Citizen comes with a cover picture of Bush
standing in a church with a large wooden cross hanging from the wall
behind him. The photograph is supposed to convey the juxtaposition of
two important symbols, the Christian Cross (which is above Bush's
head) and the President of the United States. Yet, the look on Bush's
face is one of complete arrogance; indeed, Bush's expression
expresses the opposite of the message given by the humility of Jesus,
who died on the cross.
What I have seen in the aftermath of the election from Bush-supporting
evangelicals has been their silly belief that they have "won"
something. Yet, when one examines the record of this administration,
the term "Christian" does not come to mind. Instead, I would like to
coin the phrase "functional atheism" to describe the Bush Presidency.
While I have not used "functional atheism" in previous articles to
portray the actions of the U.S. Government under Bush, I have come
close, calling outgoing Attorney General John Ashcroft, who openly
espouses his Christian beliefs, a "nihilist." What I mean by
"functional atheism" is this: the U.S. Government is a utilitarian
enterprise which operates by the simple rule of force (as opposed to a
rule of law). The concepts of "right" and "wrong" are limited to what
is useful for increasing or protecting the rule of the state, period.
The participants in the system do not deviate from those standards,
whether or not they meet the requirements of what Christians of the
past would have termed "just."
In the past week, new revelations of vast abuses of U.S. prisoners
being held in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay have appeared in the news. Yet,
many of the same people who condemn these atrocities are quite willing
to see government officials engage in the same behavior toward
Americans. While abuse, torture, and outright lying and criminal
behavior by participants in the "justice system" are common, the public
gives a collective yawn and juries continue to swallow the lies that
prosecutors feed to them. Although the accessible examples of such
behavior are legion and have been well-documented elsewhere, I will
give some of my own.
Judge Andrew P. Napolitano in a recent article gave a couple of
terrifying but all-too-typical stories of torture and abuse of people
in this country. The first involved the accusation (almost surely
false) of massive child molestation against two owners of a Florida
daycare center in 1984. The chief accuser was then-Dade County
State's Attorney Janet Reno (yes, that Janet Reno) who was in the
middle of a tough re-election campaign and was determined to get a
guilty verdict.
Reno was able to have then-18-year-old Ileana Furster, Frank
Furster's wife, held without bond. Furthermore, the young woman was
placed nude in a solitary confinement cell, being in full view of male
and female guards. In 1998, Ileana described some of her treatment:
They would give me cold showers. Two people would hold me, run me under
cold water, then throw me back in the cell naked with nothing, just a
bare floor. And I used to be cold, real cold. I would have my periods
and they would wash me and throw me back into the cell.
(Note: This action came at a time when prosecutors around the country
were engaging in child molestation witch hunts against day care owners,
the original accusations stemming from the encouragement in the 1974
Child Abuse Prevention Act, better known as the Mondale Act. It
provided federal money to states that prosecuted alleged child abuse,
and prosecutors were all-too-happy to jump into the mix. Many of the
accusations were outlandishly false, but prosecutors and their media
stooges managed to keep the enterprise going until the accusations
collapsed under the scrutiny of a particularly egregious set of charges
mounted in Wenatchee, Washington, a decade ago. However, even today,
some people are serving life terms for "child molestation" crimes they
almost certainly did not commit. Frank Furster is one of them.)
Finally, Reno began to visit Ms. Furster on a regular basis and
browbeat her with accusations and promises of a life sentence unless
she cooperated (that is, told the jury what Reno wanted her to say).
Further visits from psychiatrists who allegedly specialized in
"recovering memories" - which has turned out to be another form of
government quackery - finally got their intended results. Ileana
haltingly accused her husband in court (she has since recanted) and
Frank Furster was found guilty.
Keep in mind that this case, as well as the infamous Grant Snowden
case, in which Reno falsely accused a Miami police officer of massive
child molestation won her fame and adulation from among the Democratic
Party faithful. (Snowden received a life sentence, but the Florida
Supreme Court overturned the conviction after it said that the evidence
Reno presented amounted to fiction and her tactics were based on
torture and abuse.) In fact, Reno was so feted by the party that
Hillary Clinton successfully pushed her to be U.S. Attorney General in
1993, saying that Reno was "good on children's issues."
In other words, Reno engaged in the application of what can only be
termed torture, and the political classes loved her for it. That Reno
would set off a huge massacre at Waco a month into her tenure - and
receive public adoration for it - only confirms to me that Americans
have no problem with the state employing torture and murder, as long as
it is applied to people they deem as being unpopular or "out of the
mainstream." (Or it is not happening to them or their friends and
relatives.)
The second example involves Reno's successor, John Ashcroft. In his
recent farewell speech, Ashcroft cited the "conviction" and
imprisonment of the alleged "Lackawanna Six" as an example of a
"successful" tenure at the DOJ. As Napolitano writes, instead of awards
and self-congratulations, what should have been handed out were a
number of indictments against U.S. attorneys.
Briefly stated, the case proceeded as such: after originally calling
the accused Muslims (some of whom were American citizens) part of a
"terror cell," the government's case soon fell apart for lack of
evidence as it became obvious that the accused posed no threat and were
not planning terrorism. However, after a federal judge condemned the
government's case, U.S. attorneys told the men that if they did not
plead guilty to outlandish charges, the government would simply hold
them as "enemy combatants," which would mean the loss of due process,
no access to lawyers, and no chance of a fair trial, only summary
judgment. (Of course, one can argue that it is nearly impossible to
receive a fair trial in this country already.)
Faced with such odds, the men capitulated. Instead of condemning the
actions of government prosecutors, as someone who had sworn before God
to "protect and defend the U.S. Constitution," Ashcroft gave them
awards then bragged to the nation about the whole thing.
While atheists will disagree with me, an underlying base for the rule
of law and due process is that there is a "higher power" (or God) who
dispenses ultimate justice. For many years, a watchword in criminal
justice was "better to let 20 guilty men go free than one innocent man
to be convicted." People could believe that and live by it, since they
believed that even if a guilty person avoided justice for the time
being, he would have to face God sooner or later.
In our "sophisticated," secular society, that is no longer the case. As
a neighbor's car bumper sticker proudly proclaims, "There's only
now." In the context of criminal justice, if someone is not convicted
right now, then that person avoids justice forever. When Larry King
asked Bob Jones III, president of the Christian fundamentalist Bob
Jones University about the prospect of innocent people being executed
by the state, Jones replied that even if that were the case, that was
OK, since he believed the death penalty is a good thing. Jones gave a
utilitarian answer that the atheistic champion of utilitarianism,
Jeremy Bentham, would have applauded.
Conservative Christians are forever applauding people like Bush and
Ashcroft because they believe that the presence of such conservative
Christians gives "legitimacy" to their own religious beliefs. Yet, Bush
and his minions have not governed like Christians, but far from it, as
the record clearly demonstrates. From the demolition of Falluja to the
imprisonment of Martha Stewart and the Lackawanna Six, the Bush
Administration has governed with a cynicism that has been hard to
match. (Although, I will admit, previous administrations have set
precedents of their own. The Bushies are hardly alone in their
destructiveness; however, the Nixon and Johnson administrations did not
claim to be "Christian.")
The actions of Bush, Ashcroft, and others in this government are made
by people who apparently do not fear God. While they may claim to be
Christians - and are near-worshipped by many in the evangelical and
fundamentalist community - they govern as though they were atheists.
That is why I call them "functional atheists." And I say this with no
insult intended to atheists, many of whom have demonstrated a greater
commitment to rule of law and real justice than Bush and Ashcroft could
ever dream of doing.
.
|
|
| User: "Zigler" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 11:43:16 AM |
|
|
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
That is simply how it goes when an atheist listens to his own deeper
conscience and lives a good life deliberately, as opposed to someone
suffering from a religious delusion who listens to his cult masters and
lives a life based on fear, comformt and blind conformity.
----------------------
http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson109.html
God, Bush, and Functional Atheism
by William L. Anderson
My family and I attend a conservative Presbyterian church in a fairly
conservative place (western Maryland), so it is not surprising that our
congregation consists in large part of supporters of Republicans in
general and the George W. Bush Administration in particular. I suspect
it would be more surprising if our small Presbyterian Church in America
assembly were a mass of Democrats (or even libertarians), given the
politics of modern America.
One of the publications our church receives is Citizen, which
represents the political arm of the Focus on the Family organization
founded and run by James Dobson. Citizen is unabashedly pro-Republican,
although Dobson periodically has warned the party that it must impose a
"pro-family" agenda or Dobson will leave and take his votes elsewhere.
The latest edition of Citizen comes with a cover picture of Bush
standing in a church with a large wooden cross hanging from the wall
behind him. The photograph is supposed to convey the juxtaposition of
two important symbols, the Christian Cross (which is above Bush's
head) and the President of the United States. Yet, the look on Bush's
face is one of complete arrogance; indeed, Bush's expression
expresses the opposite of the message given by the humility of Jesus,
who died on the cross.
What I have seen in the aftermath of the election from Bush-supporting
evangelicals has been their silly belief that they have "won"
something. Yet, when one examines the record of this administration,
the term "Christian" does not come to mind. Instead, I would like to
coin the phrase "functional atheism" to describe the Bush Presidency.
While I have not used "functional atheism" in previous articles to
portray the actions of the U.S. Government under Bush, I have come
close, calling outgoing Attorney General John Ashcroft, who openly
espouses his Christian beliefs, a "nihilist." What I mean by
"functional atheism" is this: the U.S. Government is a utilitarian
enterprise which operates by the simple rule of force (as opposed to a
rule of law). The concepts of "right" and "wrong" are limited to what
is useful for increasing or protecting the rule of the state, period.
The participants in the system do not deviate from those standards,
whether or not they meet the requirements of what Christians of the
past would have termed "just."
In the past week, new revelations of vast abuses of U.S. prisoners
being held in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay have appeared in the news. Yet,
many of the same people who condemn these atrocities are quite willing
to see government officials engage in the same behavior toward
Americans. While abuse, torture, and outright lying and criminal
behavior by participants in the "justice system" are common, the public
gives a collective yawn and juries continue to swallow the lies that
prosecutors feed to them. Although the accessible examples of such
behavior are legion and have been well-documented elsewhere, I will
give some of my own.
Judge Andrew P. Napolitano in a recent article gave a couple of
terrifying but all-too-typical stories of torture and abuse of people
in this country. The first involved the accusation (almost surely
false) of massive child molestation against two owners of a Florida
daycare center in 1984. The chief accuser was then-Dade County
State's Attorney Janet Reno (yes, that Janet Reno) who was in the
middle of a tough re-election campaign and was determined to get a
guilty verdict.
Reno was able to have then-18-year-old Ileana Furster, Frank
Furster's wife, held without bond. Furthermore, the young woman was
placed nude in a solitary confinement cell, being in full view of male
and female guards. In 1998, Ileana described some of her treatment:
They would give me cold showers. Two people would hold me, run me under
cold water, then throw me back in the cell naked with nothing, just a
bare floor. And I used to be cold, real cold. I would have my periods
and they would wash me and throw me back into the cell.
(Note: This action came at a time when prosecutors around the country
were engaging in child molestation witch hunts against day care owners,
the original accusations stemming from the encouragement in the 1974
Child Abuse Prevention Act, better known as the Mondale Act. It
provided federal money to states that prosecuted alleged child abuse,
and prosecutors were all-too-happy to jump into the mix. Many of the
accusations were outlandishly false, but prosecutors and their media
stooges managed to keep the enterprise going until the accusations
collapsed under the scrutiny of a particularly egregious set of charges
mounted in Wenatchee, Washington, a decade ago. However, even today,
some people are serving life terms for "child molestation" crimes they
almost certainly did not commit. Frank Furster is one of them.)
Finally, Reno began to visit Ms. Furster on a regular basis and
browbeat her with accusations and promises of a life sentence unless
she cooperated (that is, told the jury what Reno wanted her to say).
Further visits from psychiatrists who allegedly specialized in
"recovering memories" - which has turned out to be another form of
government quackery - finally got their intended results. Ileana
haltingly accused her husband in court (she has since recanted) and
Frank Furster was found guilty.
Keep in mind that this case, as well as the infamous Grant Snowden
case, in which Reno falsely accused a Miami police officer of massive
child molestation won her fame and adulation from among the Democratic
Party faithful. (Snowden received a life sentence, but the Florida
Supreme Court overturned the conviction after it said that the evidence
Reno presented amounted to fiction and her tactics were based on
torture and abuse.) In fact, Reno was so feted by the party that
Hillary Clinton successfully pushed her to be U.S. Attorney General in
1993, saying that Reno was "good on children's issues."
In other words, Reno engaged in the application of what can only be
termed torture, and the political classes loved her for it. That Reno
would set off a huge massacre at Waco a month into her tenure - and
receive public adoration for it - only confirms to me that Americans
have no problem with the state employing torture and murder, as long as
it is applied to people they deem as being unpopular or "out of the
mainstream." (Or it is not happening to them or their friends and
relatives.)
The second example involves Reno's successor, John Ashcroft. In his
recent farewell speech, Ashcroft cited the "conviction" and
imprisonment of the alleged "Lackawanna Six" as an example of a
"successful" tenure at the DOJ. As Napolitano writes, instead of awards
and self-congratulations, what should have been handed out were a
number of indictments against U.S. attorneys.
Briefly stated, the case proceeded as such: after originally calling
the accused Muslims (some of whom were American citizens) part of a
"terror cell," the government's case soon fell apart for lack of
evidence as it became obvious that the accused posed no threat and were
not planning terrorism. However, after a federal judge condemned the
government's case, U.S. attorneys told the men that if they did not
plead guilty to outlandish charges, the government would simply hold
them as "enemy combatants," which would mean the loss of due process,
no access to lawyers, and no chance of a fair trial, only summary
judgment. (Of course, one can argue that it is nearly impossible to
receive a fair trial in this country already.)
Faced with such odds, the men capitulated. Instead of condemning the
actions of government prosecutors, as someone who had sworn before God
to "protect and defend the U.S. Constitution," Ashcroft gave them
awards then bragged to the nation about the whole thing.
While atheists will disagree with me, an underlying base for the rule
of law and due process is that there is a "higher power" (or God) who
dispenses ultimate justice. For many years, a watchword in criminal
justice was "better to let 20 guilty men go free than one innocent man
to be convicted." People could believe that and live by it, since they
believed that even if a guilty person avoided justice for the time
being, he would have to face God sooner or later.
In our "sophisticated," secular society, that is no longer the case. As
a neighbor's car bumper sticker proudly proclaims, "There's only
now." In the context of criminal justice, if someone is not convicted
right now, then that person avoids justice forever. When Larry King
asked Bob Jones III, president of the Christian fundamentalist Bob
Jones University about the prospect of innocent people being executed
by the state, Jones replied that even if that were the case, that was
OK, since he believed the death penalty is a good thing. Jones gave a
utilitarian answer that the atheistic champion of utilitarianism,
Jeremy Bentham, would have applauded.
Conservative Christians are forever applauding people like Bush and
Ashcroft because they believe that the presence of such conservative
Christians gives "legitimacy" to their own religious beliefs. Yet, Bush
and his minions have not governed like Christians, but far from it, as
the record clearly demonstrates. From the demolition of Falluja to the
imprisonment of Martha Stewart and the Lackawanna Six, the Bush
Administration has governed with a cynicism that has been hard to
match. (Although, I will admit, previous administrations have set
precedents of their own. The Bushies are hardly alone in their
destructiveness; however, the Nixon and Johnson administrations did not
claim to be "Christian.")
The actions of Bush, Ashcroft, and others in this government are made
by people who apparently do not fear God. While they may claim to be
Christians - and are near-worshipped by many in the evangelical and
fundamentalist community - they govern as though they were atheists.
That is why I call them "functional atheists." And I say this with no
insult intended to atheists, many of whom have demonstrated a greater
commitment to rule of law and real justice than Bush and Ashcroft could
ever dream of doing.
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 09:35:13 AM |
|
|
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more. Karl Rove used "moral
values" as a smoke screen, with issues such as gay marriage and abortion to
take the focus off of Bush's massive failures and deceptions. Bush is a
facist ***** for corporate profits. His war for oil was the worst
pre-planned failure in world history and hundreds of thousands will die
because of his greed and stupidity.
Instead of fighting terror, Bush is now the poster boy for terror.
.
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| User: "Steven L." |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 10:11:10 AM |
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|
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
.
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| User: "Tock" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 02:03:11 PM |
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"Steven L." wrote
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
Goes to show ya, some people are best left in the gutter . . .
-Tock
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
25 Dec 2004 03:03:08 PM |
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:03:11 GMT, "Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Steven L." wrote
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
Goes to show ya, some people are best left in the gutter . . .
The world would have been much better off.
-Tock
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Zigler" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 11:39:17 AM |
|
|
"Steven L." <> wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
Or more likely, cope with it and run from the true, underlying root causes.
Happens all the time. Merely a transfer of addiction. A characteristic you
do not want in your Burger King manager, let alone a fucking president...
UNTREATED alcoholic.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
.
|
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| User: "Steven L." |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 03:22:36 PM |
|
|
Zigler wrote:
"Steven L." < > wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
Or more likely, cope with it and run from the true, underlying root causes.
Happens all the time. Merely a transfer of addiction. A characteristic you
do not want in your Burger King manager, let alone a fucking president...
UNTREATED alcoholic.
There is no medicine to cure alcoholism. You have to *manage* the
illness day to day like most other chronic illnesses. Alcoholics
Anonymous is as good a treatment program as any.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
.
|
|
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| User: "Rump Ranger" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
25 Dec 2004 12:03:28 PM |
|
|
Steven L. wrote:
Zigler wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a
good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear
God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that
atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true
believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking
problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
Or more likely, cope with it and run from the true, underlying root
causes.
Happens all the time. Merely a transfer of addiction. A
characteristic you
do not want in your Burger King manager, let alone a fucking
president...
UNTREATED alcoholic.
There is no medicine to cure alcoholism. You have to *manage* the
illness day to day like most other chronic illnesses. Alcoholics
Anonymous is as good a treatment program as any.
There is no "illness" called alcoholism. I had to go to AA when I was
in the Army (I had a ***** of a battery commander who said he'd Article
15 me for my drinking if I didn't get "treatment") and found virtually
*everything* the AA literature said to be pure nonsense. Alcohol abuse
is a *behavioral* problem, not a spiritual one. The root causes of it
lies more in the social contract: poor, lonely, and unemployed people
have more drinking problems than rich people or people with fulfilling
lives. Alcohol provides something to the drinker that they don't think
they can get elsewhere (an escape from a reality they don't like).
Praying to God doesn't change that.
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 10:24:25 AM |
|
|
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members recover
from alcoholism.
...and your point is?
.
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| User: "Steven L." |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 03:21:15 PM |
|
|
Family Man wrote:
"Steven L." < > wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members recover
from alcoholism.
..and your point is?
My point is that Bush doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve like Kerry
did. He believes deeply in God because that's how he turned his own
life around.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 04:51:17 PM |
|
|
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:fL%yd.12263$Z47.4778@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
..and your point is?
My point is that Bush doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve like Kerry
did. He believes deeply in God because that's how he turned his own life
around.
That's ***** and you know it.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
25 Dec 2004 03:00:37 PM |
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:21:15 GMT, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ycXyd.12134$Z47.11214@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members recover
from alcoholism.
..and your point is?
My point is that Bush doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve
<boggle>
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Fair and Balanced Hyco-Limbaugh Fart Detector" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
24 Dec 2004 11:40:29 AM |
|
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:11:10 GMT, "Steven L."
<> wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
you changed the subject, Steve
the subject was: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their
hearts are far from me."
Jesus, as quoted in Matthew 15:8 (Himself quoting Isaiah 29:13
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
25 Dec 2004 02:59:35 PM |
|
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:11:10 GMT, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
No, he changed drugs.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
'Jesus' gave them the problem in the first place.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
25 Dec 2004 02:42:40 AM |
|
|
Steven L. wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
Which is worse ? Being an alcoholic, or believing in religious ***** ?
At least alcohol is real.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
31 Dec 2004 11:02:17 PM |
|
|
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is the
ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the earth.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Jez" <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message
news:-O6dndgdiONnulDcRVnytg@pipex.net...
Steven L. wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
Bush used religion to gain votes, nothing more.
Gee, I thought all you lefties knew that Bush had a drinking problem.
Becoming a born-again Christian saved his life.
FYI, Alcoholics Anonymous also uses religion to help their members
recover from alcoholism.
Which is worse ? Being an alcoholic, or believing in religious ***** ?
At least alcohol is real.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion
that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to
accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what that
reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of
someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
|
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| User: "Grantland" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
31 Dec 2004 11:32:45 PM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is the
ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the earth.
--
Dore
Nobody is PERFECT. DORE is NOBODY, therfore DORE IS PERFECT!!
TARAAAA!
GLOBULIN!
.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
01 Jan 2005 10:52:48 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is the
ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the earth.
Well damn Bore, you'd best get that message out to your bible thumping
buddies.
Especially those useless con artist on the boob tube. And while you are
at it, you may want to take down your requests for "tax free donations"
on your web site. After all, that's one of the draws for your rich,
bible thumping, child molesting, lying, cheating, "can't pull a
splinter, much less heal cancer", preacher friends.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
|
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
01 Jan 2005 10:22:57 PM |
|
|
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:m51ja2-u7k.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Well damn Bore, you'd best get that message out to your bible thumping
buddies.
Especially those useless con artist on the boob tube. And while you are
at it, you may want to take down your requests for "tax free donations" on
your web site. After all, that's one of the draws for your rich, bible
thumping, child molesting, lying, cheating, "can't pull a splinter, much
less heal cancer", preacher friends.
HYPOCRITES, LIARS, FRAUDS and EVIL DOERS who USE the name of Christ for
personal gain and material pleasures are NOT my friends, nor are they any
friends of God, but are just as evil as the rest of you sinners and wicked.
PS. I have NO tax free donations ability on my website. In fact, on my
website, I condemn capitalism and money.
cont
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
There are none more ignorant and useless than those that seek answers
standing up, with their eyes wide open that don't have a leg to stand on,
and are blind, for they NEVER find any.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:m51ja2-u7k.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Dore wrote:
Family Man wrote:
"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103890855.828658.324070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
All this talk from the Bushies got me to thinking. How much of a good
"Christian" is the US President? It seems like he doesn't fear God
despite the fact he says he worships him. Why is it that atheists can
live up to the Christian ideal more than a supposedly true believer
like Bush and Ashcroft can?
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is
the ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the
earth.
Well damn Bore, you'd best get that message out to your bible thumping
buddies.
Especially those useless con artist on the boob tube. And while you are
at it, you may want to take down your requests for "tax free donations" on
your web site. After all, that's one of the draws for your rich, bible
thumping, child molesting, lying, cheating, "can't pull a splinter, much
less heal cancer", preacher friends.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
02 Jan 2005 01:40:06 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message
news:m51ja2-u7k.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Well damn Bore, you'd best get that message out to your bible thumping
buddies.
Especially those useless con artist on the boob tube. And while you are
at it, you may want to take down your requests for "tax free donations" on
your web site. After all, that's one of the draws for your rich, bible
thumping, child molesting, lying, cheating, "can't pull a splinter, much
less heal cancer", preacher friends.
HYPOCRITES, LIARS, FRAUDS and EVIL DOERS who USE the name of Christ for
personal gain and material pleasures are NOT my friends, nor are they any
friends of God, but are just as evil as the rest of you sinners and wicked.
PS. I have NO tax free donations ability on my website. In fact, on my
website, I condemn capitalism and money.
cont
You ask for donations, you claim to be a religion, you are tax free.
No different the Falwell, Robertson, Kennedy, or any other media bible
thumper.
Except for one major difference, none of them claim to be the second
cuming. That is reserved for you Bore. You claim it, and when taken to
task for it, run away screaming like a four year old in a sand box, that
does not get her way.
I pity you.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
There are none more ignorant and useless than those that seek answers
standing up, with their eyes wide open that don't have a leg to stand on,
and are blind, for they NEVER find any.
Did the voices in your head tell you to say that? Or have you failed to
take your meds again?
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
03 Jan 2005 09:31:17 PM |
|
|
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:g5lka2-uao.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
You ask for donations, you claim to be a religion, you are tax free.
I ahve NEVER asked for a donation in my life and I NEVER claimed to be a
religion and I am certainly NOT tax free. Why are you making lies up about
me?
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:g5lka2-uao.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Dore wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message
news:m51ja2-u7k.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Well damn Bore, you'd best get that message out to your bible thumping
buddies.
Especially those useless con artist on the boob tube. And while you are
at it, you may want to take down your requests for "tax free donations"
on your web site. After all, that's one of the draws for your rich,
bible thumping, child molesting, lying, cheating, "can't pull a splinter,
much less heal cancer", preacher friends.
HYPOCRITES, LIARS, FRAUDS and EVIL DOERS who USE the name of Christ for
personal gain and material pleasures are NOT my friends, nor are they any
friends of God, but are just as evil as the rest of you sinners and
wicked.
PS. I have NO tax free donations ability on my website. In fact, on my
website, I condemn capitalism and money.
cont
You ask for donations, you claim to be a religion, you are tax free.
No different the Falwell, Robertson, Kennedy, or any other media bible
thumper.
Except for one major difference, none of them claim to be the second
cuming. That is reserved for you Bore. You claim it, and when taken to
task for it, run away screaming like a four year old in a sand box, that
does not get her way.
I pity you.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
There are none more ignorant and useless than those that seek answers
standing up, with their eyes wide open that don't have a leg to stand on,
and are blind, for they NEVER find any.
Did the voices in your head tell you to say that? Or have you failed to
take your meds again?
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
04 Jan 2005 05:53:19 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message
news:g5lka2-uao.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
You ask for donations, you claim to be a religion, you are tax free.
I ahve NEVER asked for a donation in my life and I NEVER claimed to be a
religion and I am certainly NOT tax free. Why are you making lies up about
me?
I don't have to make up anything about you Bore, this little URL does
all the talking needed:
http://www.dorewilliamson.com/
Now, since you "claim" to hate money, and since you also "claim" that
you avoid it as much as possible, and you "claim" that you only use it
because the evil government requires you to. I'm curious;
How do you keep that piece of crap web site running?
ISP's are not into charity work, they are in it for the money Bore. So
just where do you get your money to pay your ISP?
And when it comes to lies, go look in a mirror Bore. The biggest lie
going for you, is that you are the second cuming, or some such nonsense.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
08 Jan 2005 03:54:53 PM |
|
|
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:rocqa2-0v71.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
I don't have to make up anything about you Bore, this little URL does all
the talking needed:
http://www.dorewilliamson.com/
Now, show us all where on my website I have asked for donations????
Obviously, you ARE lying and making things up, but YOU are NOT man enough to
admit it.
cont
Now, since you "claim" to hate money, and since you also "claim" that you
avoid it as much as possible, and you "claim" that you only use it because
the evil government requires you to. I'm curious;
How do you keep that piece of crap web site running?
ISP's are not into charity work, they are in it for the money Bore. So
just where do you get your money to pay your ISP?
I WORK for it, being enslaved to a capitalist, just like you do. I am FORCED
to waste my life and time doing things that I don't want to do, that aren't
worth anything that matters so that my employer can live in riches, while I
have to receive whatever HE deems that I am permitted to have to get
worthless money because EVIL SELFISH STUPID people, like you KKKarl, who
refuse to live, work, receive and give FREELY for the sustenance of all and
would rather bow down and cower to capitalistic rulers instead of desiring
to be TRULY FREE.
cont
And when it comes to lies, go look in a mirror Bore. The biggest lie
going for you, is that you are the second cuming, or some such nonsense.
It is NO lie, KKKarl, your ignorance and EVIL is not MY lie.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:rocqa2-0v71.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
Dore wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message
news:g5lka2-uao.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com...
You ask for donations, you claim to be a religion, you are tax free.
I ahve NEVER asked for a donation in my life and I NEVER claimed to be a
religion and I am certainly NOT tax free. Why are you making lies up
about me?
I don't have to make up anything about you Bore, this little URL does all
the talking needed:
http://www.dorewilliamson.com/
Now, since you "claim" to hate money, and since you also "claim" that you
avoid it as much as possible, and you "claim" that you only use it because
the evil government requires you to. I'm curious;
How do you keep that piece of crap web site running?
ISP's are not into charity work, they are in it for the money Bore. So
just where do you get your money to pay your ISP?
And when it comes to lies, go look in a mirror Bore. The biggest lie
going for you, is that you are the second cuming, or some such nonsense.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
|
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|
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
01 Jan 2005 06:46:40 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 05:02:17 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is the
ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the earth.
Then, logically, even those with just a little money are a little
evil. Thank you for the admission of guilt, Dore.
--
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the
type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his
physical death is also beyond my comprehension,...; such notions are for the fears or
absurd egoism of feeble souls."
- Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
01 Jan 2005 10:25:02 PM |
|
|
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:62het0hajrrnuq5kmrk5a833vs1gkaknbc@4ax.com...
Then, logically, even those with just a little money are a little
evil. Thank you for the admission of guilt, Dore.
No, those of us who DESPISE money are not held accountable, for the
ignorance and stupidity of evil wicked people like you, who love, bow,
submit and willingly enslave themselves to money and the capitalistic system
without complaint, forcing the rest of us to be enslaved by your wickedness.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:62het0hajrrnuq5kmrk5a833vs1gkaknbc@4ax.com...
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 05:02:17 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
ALL members of the wealthy social elite are EVIL. The love of money is the
ROOT of ALL EVIL, therefore ALL wealthy are the most evil on the earth.
Then, logically, even those with just a little money are a little
evil. Thank you for the admission of guilt, Dore.
--
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has
a will of the
type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should
survive his
physical death is also beyond my comprehension,...; such notions are for
the fears or
absurd egoism of feeble souls."
- Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
02 Jan 2005 11:01:26 AM |
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On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:25:02 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:62het0hajrrnuq5kmrk5a833vs1gkaknbc@4ax.com...
Then, logically, even those with just a little money are a little
evil. Thank you for the admission of guilt, Dore.
No, those of us who DESPISE money are not held accountable
Why? Because you say so? Sane people don't order their lives
according to the beliefs of the insane.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
03 Jan 2005 09:32:38 PM |
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Al Klein" <CellPhones@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:p5agt0l6k60io5n9r830kg9r67mna20qqe@4ax.com...
Why? Because you say so? Sane people don't order their lives
according to the beliefs of the insane.
Obviously, YOU do, because you bow, submit and cower to the beliefs and
capitalistic system of the evil wicked rulers of the world, and they are
more insane than anyone.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Al Klein" <CellPhones@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:p5agt0l6k60io5n9r830kg9r67mna20qqe@4ax.com...
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:25:02 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:62het0hajrrnuq5kmrk5a833vs1gkaknbc@4ax.com...
Then, logically, even those with just a little money are a little
evil. Thank you for the admission of guilt, Dore.
No, those of us who DESPISE money are not held accountable
Why? Because you say so? Sane people don't order their lives
according to the beliefs of the insane.
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| User: "Stanley F. Nelson" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
03 Jan 2005 10:26:48 PM |
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I don't know what Bush is now, but he acted like as good a "Christian" as
Karl Rove thought he should to get him elected. Anything -- anything --
about Bush falls in the same category.
Stanley F. Nelson
Dallas.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Eliminate annoying spam!
My mailbox is protected by iHateSpam, the #1-rated spam buster."
http://www.ihatespam.net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
04 Jan 2005 10:33:32 AM |
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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 03:32:38 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein" <CellPhones@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:p5agt0l6k60io5n9r830kg9r67mna20qqe@4ax.com...
Why? Because you say so? Sane people don't order their lives
according to the beliefs of the insane.
Obviously, YOU do, because you bow, submit and cower to the beliefs and
capitalistic system of the evil wicked rulers of the world
Do I? How?
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is human
concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind cannot
begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has
been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Is George W. Bush really a good Christian? |
08 Jan 2005 04:03:21 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:dahlt0ptlqrf3462t1ud8d5h0jnfdcf669@4ax.com...
Obviously, YOU do, because you bow, submit and cower to the beliefs and
capitalistic system of the evil wicked rulers of the world
Do I? How?
Do you work for a capitalist? Do you pay taxes? Do you attain money without
complaint? Do you believe that the rich wealthy rulers deserve their wealth
while others live in poverty? Do you believe that your vote counts? Do you
believe that the US is a democracy? Do you believe that America is the
greatest and most wonderful nation in the world? Do you believe in the
American dream, that college degrees etc should receive higher paying jobs
than others? Do you believe in the system of classes? Do you believe that
your government should have free reign to do as they please to everyone,
force capitalism, wage levels, create laws to enrich the wealthy and
fortunate, being above the law as they are, while keeping the working class
enslaved to them? Do you believe that war is necessary? Do you believe that
a system of finances is necessary? Or do you fight against ALL of these
things? If you DON'T fight against these things then you are bowing,
cowering and submitting to this evil capitalistic system and the insanity of
the evil wicked rulers of the world.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:dahlt0ptlqrf3462t1ud8d5h0jnfdcf669@4ax.com...
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 03:32:38 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein" <CellPhones@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:p5agt0l6k60io5n9r830kg9r67mna20qqe@4ax.com...
Why? Because you say so? Sane people don't order their lives
according to the beliefs of the insane.
Obviously, YOU do, because you bow, submit and cower to the beliefs and
capitalistic system of the evil wicked rulers of the world
Do I? How?
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human
concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot
begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has
been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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